You seem to have pretty much got the gist from what I can gather. It's a Magus except instead of crit fishing with shocking grasps, you're unloading Scorching Rays + an archers full round attack action.
Reach definitely opens things up but it's a shame it's limited to lvl 9. It should really be lower.
I was playing around with the idea of dipping into Spellslinger to use a gun for fun, Spell Blending for Named Bullet and taking advantage of those auto crits, and Spellslingers x3 crit multipler for x3 critting Disintegrates.
In the end though I backed away from it, as it really does not seem like a leveling-friendly build due to guns being so poor.
Was considering writing a guide for this.
It really does change the dynamic of the magus a lot.
You aren't going to be doing nearly the damage as amelee magus but you will be much much safer in the early to mid levels.
A thing to understand about this is that it makes a lot of spells you wouldn't consider using more interesting options. Fireball, lightning bolt and others are good starters to a full attack since you can chuck an empowered one, see who fails their save and finish those guys off with your arrows.
Also things like Rapid Shot aren't nearly as important as normally, as with spellstrike you already have rapid shot basically.
I am fine doing away with crit fishing and was pleasantly surprised when i saw a few options to add blinding to your ranged attacks. My greatest concern is accuracy. 3/4 BAB, -2 Ranged Spell Combat, -2 if you dare to Rapid Shot. Arcane Accuracy is a must. Spell blending looks like the best level 6 arcana but i am not sure what i'd pick with it. As said above your level 9 and 12 choices are basically made for you.
The standard archery feats look compatible.
Level 1: PBS, Precise Shot.
Level 3: Rapid Shot (is this worth it for the accuracy penalty?)
Level 5: Deadly Aim, Far Shot (Really, REALLY? more accuracy penalties?)
Level 7: Lob Shot
Level 9: manyshotIt would be nice to grab some other feats such as Weapon Specialization and Clustered Shots. There is potential for Reckless Aim, Hammer the Gap and if Thunderstomp is a valid option than Relentless Shot would be fun.
Deadly aim is worthless.
Rapid shot is equally worthless unless you're shooting outside of the range of an available spellcombat spell.
I wouldn't call Manyshot really necessary. Far shot neither since you'll rarely be shooting out of the Clsoe range of Snowball and others.
So you can knock four feats off the chain and be in decent shape. That gives you room for thigns like Extra Arcana, Intensify Spell, and others.
Talking about Arcana the following Arcana are also suddenly worthless since they refer directly to melee attacks or do something that doesn't work with you.
Accurate Strike
Close Range
Critical Strike
Disruptive
Divinatory Strike
Natural Spell Combat
Pool Strike and all of its follow-ups.
Spellbreaker
I haven't fully analyzed everything, but it seems to me that the Eldritch Archer would function best in a role similar to that of the Archer-Bard with the ranged attacks being a secondary focus and other actions being where the real power lies. Throwing out a buffing or control spell each round while still getting off a few arrows seems better than just going for DPR like a traditional crit-fishing magus does.
I haven't fully analyzed everything, but it seems to me that the Eldritch Archer would function best in a role similar to that of the Archer-Bard with the ranged attacks being a secondary focus and other actions being where the real power lies. Throwing out a buffing or control spell each round while still getting off a few arrows seems better than just going for DPR like a traditional crit-fishing magus does.
Not that many good buffs on the spell list sadly. Explosions and debuffs are aplenty though.
With melee you ahve the increased threat range and the ridiculous action ecconomy coming from Spellstoring/spellcombat/quickened spell to really chuck out the burn.
So what we really need to find is a gimmick the archer can exploit.
Splode and shoot is certainly one.
Here is one. Blind through Mudball, Glitterdust or Gloomblind Bolts and then pepper with arrows as normal.I haven't fully analyzed everything, but it seems to me that the Eldritch Archer would function best in a role similar to that of the Archer-Bard with the ranged attacks being a secondary focus and other actions being where the real power lies. Throwing out a buffing or control spell each round while still getting off a few arrows seems better than just going for DPR like a traditional crit-fishing magus does.Not that many good buffs on the spell list sadly. Explosions and debuffs are aplenty though.
With melee you ahve the increased threat range and the ridiculous action ecconomy coming from Spellstoring/spellcombat/quickened spell to really chuck out the burn.
So what we really need to find is a gimmick the archer can exploit.
Splode and shoot is certainly one.
There's also the option of dropping fog on your foes (if you can see through it) and fire arrows that could care less about dex?
So, aside from Cantrip striking, is the extra damage worth the lower accuracy against normal AC?
that's a really fair question.
I think it is worth it. It's still extra damage off you'd otherwise not have and you can stack damage on it. Increased threat range can come from bracers of the falcon.
I don't consider Rapid Shot and Many shot bad because they don't match. I think they're bad because they put an accuracy penalty on an already penalized action.
So any method of damage add you can get will apply to the spell you toss as well.
So it can be worth it. It's just worth keeping in mind it's not all you can do.
What about some battlefield control, is there a good spell to create some difficult terrain or otherwise impede movement towards the Magus?
Grease, Glue Seal, Stone Call, Web, some others.
Fun thought. Would Accursed Strike work with Eldritch Archer?
Fun thought. Would Accursed Strike work with Eldritch Archer?
"Accursed Strike (Sp): A hexcrafter magus who can cast bestow curse, major curse, or any spell with the curse descriptor can deliver these prepared spells using the spellstrike ability, even if the spells are not touch attack spells."
The question here is does ranged spellstrike qualify as spellstrike. EA specifies Ranged spellstrike "alters" spellstrike. Does that still qualify as spellstrike?
For reference, Ranged Spell Combat "modifies" spell combat. Is there a difference between "alters" and "modifies"?
Or you could do what every other archer does, and simply make a 5 foot step.
But then the enemy does a 5 foot step and full rounds you and laughs at your bloody pile of limbs on the ground.
...wait. This archetype doesn't remove Greater Spell Combat? The Hexcrafter has a rule whereby because it removes Spell Recall but doesn't touch Improved Spell recall, the Hexcrafter recieives Spell Recall at level 11. Does Eldritch Archer have a similar rule with Spell Combat?
On his turn perhaps, but in the meantime you've loaded him with a bunch of arrow and spell damage before he gets to do that.
True, but I'm not the gambling sort. I'd rather reposition and not require the party healer to drop his things and get me off the floor.
...wait. This archetype doesn't remove Greater Spell Combat? The Hexcrafter has a rule whereby because it removes Spell Recall but doesn't touch Improved Spell recall, the Hexcrafter recieives Spell Recall at level 11. Does Eldritch Archer have a similar rule with Spell Combat?
Where does it say that?
...wait. This archetype doesn't remove Greater Spell Combat? The Hexcrafter has a rule whereby because it removes Spell Recall but doesn't touch Improved Spell recall, the Hexcrafter recieives Spell Recall at level 11. Does Eldritch Archer have a similar rule with Spell Combat?
That is a standard rule for all archetypes.
Spell combat can include things such as quick movement spells like bladed dash or dimension door which can adress that.
Provided I had prepared such an emergency spell of course.
Manyshot is fine. No penalty, just an extra arrow. At 3rd level, Rapid Shot gives +50% damage for -2 to hit. if a -2 to hit (between -67% and -0% likely damage per arrow, depending on your to-hit modifier.) The big thing you might lose is the chance of your spell landing.
So, aside from Cantrip striking, is the extra damage worth the lower accuracy against normal AC?that's a really fair question.
I think it is worth it. It's still extra damage off you'd otherwise not have and you can stack damage on it. Increased threat range can come from bracers of the falcon.
I don't consider Rapid Shot and Many shot bad because they don't match. I think they're bad because they put an accuracy penalty on an already penalized action.
So any method of damage add you can get will apply to the spell you toss as well.
So it can be worth it. It's just worth keeping in mind it's not all you can do.
Neither of which are necessary.
Rapid Shot is built in through Spell Combat.
All it gives you is a long range option or a good way to not hit anything.
These numbers are for Rapid Shot in combo with Spell Combat. It would otherwise do +100% damage instead.Manyshot is fine. No penalty, just an extra arrow. At 3rd level, Rapid Shot gives +50% damage for -2 to hit. if a -2 to hit (between -67% and -0% likely damage per arrow, depending on your to-hit modifier.) The big thing you might lose is the chance of your spell landing.
So, aside from Cantrip striking, is the extra damage worth the lower accuracy against normal AC?that's a really fair question.
I think it is worth it. It's still extra damage off you'd otherwise not have and you can stack damage on it. Increased threat range can come from bracers of the falcon.
I don't consider Rapid Shot and Many shot bad because they don't match. I think they're bad because they put an accuracy penalty on an already penalized action.
So any method of damage add you can get will apply to the spell you toss as well.
So it can be worth it. It's just worth keeping in mind it's not all you can do.
Neither of which are necessary.
Rapid Shot is built in through Spell Combat.
All it gives you is a long range option or a good way to not hit anything.
Let's talk real numbers then and show our work.
Let's assume everything being equal 16 dex and Int at level 5 so even. Assume a full attack against a CR5 critter (so against an AC of 18 we can say). We won't bother throwing in a str bonus and we'll assume a snowball for ranged spell strike to go with our spellcombat. Pointblank shot and an arcane pool of +1 will be factored in as well.
A straight up shot from the arcane pooled +1 longbow, now +2, has a dpr of 4.95 by its lonesome, no adds.
Throw in Arcane Accuracy and it goes up to 6.19.
Chuck in Rapid Shot and it goes up to 10.73.
So far so good.
Now we get into spell combat. We're gonna chuck a snowball.
Without rapid shot Snowball spellcombat has a dpr of 23.24.
With Rapid Shot we're looking at a Snowball Spellcombat DPR of 24.21
So a 0.97 increase of damage.
Though that's not the whole story. We're talking feats here right?
So what happens if we drop rapid shot and magical lineage an empowered snowball to second level?
The DPR on that round is 29.49.
The downside to that is that it's limited to how many 2nd level spells you have. So let's dig some more.
What if we just add Weapon Focus? Zero negatives possibility of Weapon Spec later if we want.
DRP turns to 25.03.
That's great because it applies to everything.
It's even better because we don't suddenly lose a mountain of damage if we miss by two thanks to rapid shot.
But ultimately it's not like a raw percentage of damage upgrade, but a boost that's beaten out by Weapon focus when you're utilizing your class abilities together.
I could get mroe into it, and talk about manyshot as well but I'm exhausted.
If you go feat-light, as some recommend above, what about going VMC Fighter to get more accuracy, via Weapon Training (which goes eventually 40% of the way to making up for having 3/4 BAB)(*)? This also lets you increase the ceiling on your Dexterity bonus and movement after you get Medium and Heavy Armor via Armor Training, and Armor Training 1 even comes online right when you need it (when you get Medium Armor), at level 7, while Armor Training 2 comes online only 2 levels late (after you get Heavy Armor), at level 15. The downside (other than trading in 5 feats) is that Bravery is rather underwhelming unless you are up against a lot of enemies that use fear effects.
(*)For weapon training, of course, select Bows first and Close (for Cestus) second. When going VMC, you won't have the feats left over to make anything other than Bows good, which is too bad, since historically, bows were supposed to be harder to use than Crossbows and Firearms, although not as hard to use as Slings.
+Seconded.
Was considering writing a guide for this.I would love to see a guide for this! The magus is my second favorite class (with paladin first) and I have wanted a magical, gun wielding, Outlaw Star like character for years now.
Anything I can do to make this guide happen, let me know!
That might work as a magus x/spell slinger wizard 1, though you will need rapid reload on top of other ranged feats. You get higher DCs on your spells too, so that's neat.
Was considering writing a guide for this.I would love to see a guide for this! The magus is my second favorite class (with paladin first) and I have wanted a magical, gun wielding, Outlaw Star like character for years now.
Anything I can do to make this guide happen, let me know!
There have been a few threads on it now. My opinion at the moment is it's doable, but not entirely worth leveling through. It's just too feat intensive on account of guns being so bad.
If I had the opportunity of starting at lvl 12, I'd absolutely give it a go. But building up from lvl 1 seems like misery.
Somewhat off-topic but actually related, I'd also like to see a new guide to the Myrmidarch Magus. The existing guide "Optimizing the Suboptimal: A Subguide to the Myrmidarch" was written before some new options (including VMC) came out that seem like they would give this archetype a second life, and since Eldritch Archer is the real Magus archer archetype, Myrmidarch should be re-examined as more of a melee archetype with switch-hitter ability.
That might work as a magus x/spell slinger wizard 1, though you will need rapid reload on top of other ranged feats. You get higher DCs on your spells too, so that's neat.Was considering writing a guide for this.I would love to see a guide for this! The magus is my second favorite class (with paladin first) and I have wanted a magical, gun wielding, Outlaw Star like character for years now.
Anything I can do to make this guide happen, let me know!
What's really cool about the DC thing is that the magus has everything else beat for getting a high bonus on his weapons - he can easily be running around with a +3 gun at level six, if he uses arcane pool. Which he should.
What's really cool about the DC thing is that the magus has everything else beat for getting a high bonus on his weapons - he can easily be running around with a +3 gun at level six, if he uses arcane pool. Which he should.
You mean +4 right? and the next turn you can swift sacrifice a spell for Seeking or Distance (there has been debate on whether the Spellslinger's Mage Bullets enhancement bonus will stack with a bonus already on a weapon).
+2 at 5th level seems entirely doable (6th if you don't have brass ones to craft without the pre-req). +2 from Arcane Pool.
Being a magus you'll want Magical Lineage or Wayang Spellhunter. Being multiclass spellcaster, you probably want Magical Knack. These edge out Called, so you'll be kind of forced into taking Amateur Gunslinger sooner rather than later. You also need Rapid Reload by 3rd otherwise you won't be able to Spellstrike.
- 1) Spellslinger 1: Point Blank Shot, Amateur Gunslinger (or Precise Shot) (HB)
- 2) Eldritch Archer 1:
- 3) Eldritch Archer 2: Rapid Reload
- 4) Eldritch Archer 3: Magus Arcana (Arcane Accuracy)
- 5) Eldritch Archer 4: Precise Shot (or Amateur Gunslinger)
- 6) Eldritch Archer 5: Weapon Focus (Pistols) (MB)
- 7) Eldritch Archer 6: Gunslinger, Magus Arcana (?)
- 8) Eldritch Archer 7:
- 9) Eldritch Archer 8: Intensify Spell (Snowball)
- 10) Eldritch Archer 9: Magus Arcana (Reach Spellstrike)
- 11) Eldritch Archer 10: Clustered Shots
- 12) Eldritch Archer 11: Rapid Shot (MB)
- 13) Eldritch Archer 12: Snap Shot, Magus Arcana (Spell Blending: Named Bullet)
- 14) Eldritch Archer 13:
- 15) Eldritch Archer 14: Improved Snap Shot
- 16) Eldritch Archer 15: Magus Arcana (?)
- 17) Eldritch Archer 16: Combat Reflexes
- 18) Eldritch Archer 17: Feat? (MB)
- 19) Eldritch Archer 18: Feat?, Magus Arcana (?)
- 20) Eldritch Archer 19:
You are in hell until 5th, hitting touch AC offsets the -4 to hit for shooting into melee. 20ft Range means you are always in range for something to come up and smack you with a tumble through your front line. Luckily at 6th you can put an extra +1 and distance on your pistol or sacrifice a spell for the distance and put a +2 on your weapon which should already be +2 base. Not really sure about Gunslinger, sure you don't provoke by shooting any more, but you are still probably going to 5ft step back to Spell Combat anyways.
I think its less cheese since I last commented, and I feel there is ambiguity in whether you can use specific ammunition with spellstike (ie Named Bullet). But 30d6 Snowballs at level 14 probably isn't the end of the world and x3 Disintegrates at level 17 are still sub-optimal to level 9 spells I think?
I believe the weirdness of what the Eldritch Archer trades out and keeps from base Magus is that it seems it was designed as a patch to Myrmidarch.
In my opinion, Eldritch Archer/ Myrmidarch is the best route to go with it.
{. . .}
Being a magus you'll want Magical Lineage or Wayang Spellhunter. Being multiclass spellcaster, you probably want Magical Knack. {. . .}
If you are just 1 level behind in spellcasting/caster level advancement, is Magical Knack really worth it? You are only getting half of the benefit.
Also, what's the deal with Wayang Spellhunter? I have also seen this elsewhere, where everybody seems to ignore the part about actually being a Wayang to get this trait (people seem to be using an oversight in the wording of the trait).