I can't seem to find an answer for this.
Basically, I have a character that will be dipping a few levels in a class that has fewer skill points per level, but that won't be a problem since I don't need full ranks in the fly skill. However, there's no way to work it around that I can sink that whole deficit into only the fly skill unless I save some skill points for later levels to keep the relevant skills at max.
You can spent your skill points in any skill you want, no matter what class you level up in. You don't have to spend them solely on the fly skill when you dip. I don't think I understand the problem you're having.
|
This, I suppose.
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).
The rules for adding a level say:
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats.
As there is no wording anywhere in the rules for keeping skill point in reserve, you must apply them immediately.
You best option is to buy a intelligence boosting item with the fly skill.
Okay, the full issue is this:
The fly skill cannot have points put into it until I have a reliable method of flight. This happens at kinetecist level 6. For simplicity, Let's say I take 6 levels in kinetecist then 2 levels in magus, which I'm dipping into. With 14 INT, this means that my kineticist levels will have 6 skill points and my magus levels will have 4 skill points.
I want to focus on the following skills:
Acrobatics
Fly
Knowledge: Arcana
Knowledge: Planes
Perception
Spellcraft
So levels 1-5, I already have 5 extra skill points. I can't spend them in fly because I don't have a reliable fly skill.
Level 6, I would ideally have it look like this:
6
2
6
6
6
6
keeping it -4 in fly because those are the amount of skill points I am missing total, and I get a nice bonus to fly as per the spell that wings of air emulates.
Then I take 2 levels in magus, so now I'm level 8. I want it to now look like this, spending the unspent skillpoints as well:
8
4
8
8
8
8
However, from what you guys are saying, this sounds unfeasible. Isn't there another way to avoid this skill point deficit hitting another skill?
|
|
I don't get what you are trying to say with those column of numbers.
It work this way:
fly, levels 1-5 = 0 points
level 6 = you can spend from 0 to 6 points in the fly skill. 6 is the maximum number of skill point that you can spend in the skill as you are level 6.
level 7 and 8, you still have a reliable way to fly, so you can spend as many points you wish in the fly skill, with the usual limit of 1 for each level you possess.
Edit:
Wings of Air (Su): As a swift action, you can manifest a pair of translucent, cloud-like wings that grant you a fly speed of 60 feet with good maneuverability. At 10th level, your speed increases to 90 feet and your maneuverability increases to perfect. You can use these wings for 1 minute per day per oracle level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.
How do you get it at level 6?
Further Edit:
There are 3 different wings of air.
Facepalm.
I don't get what you are trying to say with those column of numbers.
It work this way:
fly, levels 1-5 = 0 points
level 6 = you can spend from 0 to 6 points in the fly skill. 6 is the maximum number of skill point that you can spend in the skill as you are level 6.
level 7 and 8, you still have a reliable way to fly, so you can spend as many points you wish in the fly skill, with the usual limit of 1 for each level you possess.
What I'm trying to say is that I want to be able to save skill points to be able to achieve those numbers. The columns represent the skills I mentioned earlier.
Basically, I want the end result to be that of 44 skill points available at level 8, I want to have 8 ranks in 5 skills and 4 ranks in the fly skill. How do I manage that if I don't end up holding back skill points?
EDIT:
That's hilarious. They named a kineticist ability after an already existing ability name. I didn't even know about that revelation. This is what I'm talking about:
Wings of Air
Element(s) air; Type utility (Sp); Level 3; Burn 0
the air bends to your will, allowing you to soar to great heights.
Prerequisite(s) air cushion or air's leap
You are constantly under the effects of fly. If this effect is dispelled, You can call it forth again as a standard action.
Is retraining an option?
|
|
You spend 4 points at level 6 (as kineticist give you a reliable way to fly).
You first take the class features, included the Wings of air ability, then buy your skills.
Adding skills and feats is the last step.
The other option is to buy a headband of wast intelligence +2 with the fly skill. It will give you automatically a point in the fly skill for each level you possess.
You spend 4 points at level 6 (as kineticist give you a reliable way to fly).
You first take the class features, included the Wings of air ability, then buy your skills.
Adding skills and feats is the last step.The other option is to buy a headband of wast intelligence +2 with the fly skill. It will give you automatically a point in the fly skill for each level you possess.
So you're saying that I can save skill points? Earlier you made a post suggesting I can't. I'm a little bit confused.
|
|
So you're saying that I can save skill points? Earlier you made a post suggesting I can't. I'm a little bit confused.You spend 4 points at level 6 (as kineticist give you a reliable way to fly).
You first take the class features, included the Wings of air ability, then buy your skills.
Adding skills and feats is the last step.The other option is to buy a headband of wast intelligence +2 with the fly skill. It will give you automatically a point in the fly skill for each level you possess.
You can't save the skill point from levels 1-5, but you can use those you get at level 6, as you use them after you have taken wing of air.
Level 1-5: you can't spend the points.
Level 6, in order: you chose your class feature, Wing of air, then you get to spend the 6 skill point you received at that level. As you have a relaible way to fly you can spend them on the fly skill.
But now I have a shortage in the other skills, is what I'm saying.
So basically, what I want to do is normally impossible.
Is this for PFS?
No, but I do like to try and keep my builds as legal as possible.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But now I have a shortage in the other skills, is what I'm saying.
So basically, what I want to do is normally impossible.
Correct. Your best bet is retraining.
Buy a potion of fly at first level. Now you have a reliable means to fly.
Won't work.
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).
It has to be something that is reusable, so you have access to it every day.
Buy a potion of fly at first level. Now you have a reliable means to fly.
Ask your DM, but Air Step may be a lower level spell for doing this.
Edit: never mind. It's a personal spell.
I know of two legal solutions.
1. Buy a headband of Int with Fly as the embedded skill.
2. Buy a glider (Ultimate Combat, pg. 187) and learn Fly skill that way.
Either of these would allow you to learn Fly skill before 6th level on your character.
Other classes can learn it earlier via the Glide spell, pg. 225-226 of APG.
As a bonus, a glider seems like exactly the sort of thing a low level aerokineticist would want to have.
I suppose you could also start with an Int of 13 instead of 14 and then put your 8th level stat boost into Int, thus increasing your modifier and so getting you 8 skill ranks retroactively, which you could put into Fly since you'll a way to fly by then. Kind of suboptimal though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Food for thought:
Hmmmm, I have a few hours of downtime each day when we make camp. I think I'll spend that time practicing being alert, binding wounds, foraging for food, and thinking up new ways to lie and bluff and deceive people. Maybe after a few weeks of doing this, I will be noticeably better at these things.
(After a week or two of adventuring, this character gains a level and puts a rank into Perception, Heal, Survival, and Bluff.)
*************************************************************************** **************************************************************************
Hmmmm, I have a few hours of downtime each day when we make camp. I think I'll spend that time practicing being alert, binding wounds, and foraging for food, but I won't use all my downtime for training skills because, one day, in the foreseeable future, I will want to instantly learn a new skill I don't even know at this time.
(After a week or two of adventuring, this character gains a level and puts a rank into Perception, Heal, and Survival - and then he puts his extra "time" into a time bank for future use.)
(Months later...)
Hmmmm, I have a few hours of downtime each day when we make camp and I have a whole bunch of hours in my time bank. I think I'll spend that time practicing being alert, binding wounds, and foraging for food, and I'll stop time to invest all those banked hours to study and practice the heck out of flying now that I can.
(After a week or two of adventuring, this character gains a level and puts a rank into Perception, Heal, and Survival - and he puts 6 ranks into Fly.)
*************************************************************************** **************************************************************************
Here's a question: if that character can suddenly spend 9 ranks on skills at 6th level (because he saved them), and those ranks represent time spent training and learning skills, why couldn't he just spend 9 ranks at every level? What makes him so bad at using his time that he can only spend enough time training and learning skills to gain a maximum of only FOUR ranks at every level from 1-5 but suddenly, at level 6, he figures out how to spend more than twice as much time training and learning skills and now he can spend up to NINE ranks - but then he forgets this trick next level and is back to his maximum of only FOUR ranks again?
Or to put it another way, if he has enough time at level 6 to train and learn nine ranks of skills, then whey doesn't he have that much time at every level?
Here's a question: if that character can suddenly spend 9 ranks on skills at 6th level (because he saved them), and those ranks represent time spent training and learning skills, why couldn't he just spend 9 ranks at every level? What makes him so bad at using his time that he can only spend enough time training and learning skills to gain a maximum of only FOUR ranks at every level from 1-5 but suddenly, at level 6, he figures out how to spend more than twice as much time training and learning skills and now he can spend up to NINE ranks - but then he forgets this trick next level and is back to his maximum of only FOUR ranks again?
Or to put it another way, if he has enough time at level 6 to train and learn nine ranks of skills, then whey doesn't he have that much time at every level?
Why can the 6th level character have 6 ranks in Perception and 6 in Survival but not 5 ranks in Perception and 7 ranks in Survival, even though that's perfectly acceptable for a 7th level character? Because it's a game, not because of any realism considerations. If the CRB---or the player's GM---did say "feel free to save up skill points and spend them later" it would be no less realistic than the ranks cap, nor would it break game.
EDIT: Oh, and why does an increase in intelligence retroactively give you extra time to have studied and practiced your skills?
EDIT: Oh, and why does an increase in intelligence retroactively give you extra time to have studied and practiced your skills?Because Paizo commented that the old way of not doing it retroactively was unnecessarily punitive.
Which is to say, not for any realism-related reason.
At 8th level, you will aquire your second stat boost. If you have an even intelligence score at 1st level (I assume that it's 14, seeing as your Magus has 4 skill ranks/level), this will grant you 8 additional ranks. This will eliminate your entire skill deficit.
You might also consider the possibility of investing 4000 gp for a head band of intelligence. Removing it at any time will effectively allow you to retrain a number of skills, as you will lose ranks 1 rank per a level, and then regain them after wearing the headband on again for an amount of time (a week, I think?) At least, that seems like how it works. It's not intelligence damage, so you aren't limited to your 'old' skills.
Finally, if worst comes to worst, maybe forgo ranks in Fly and full ranks in Planes (which has a typical max DC of 20). You can make them up again if you take 2 additional levels in Kinetecist for 9th and 10th level.
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 Acrobatics
0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 2 Fly
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 2 Knowledge: Arcana
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 2 Knowledge: Planes
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 Perception
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 Spellcraft
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 3 Added Skill
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'll second that you can't save up skill points but you could ask to retrain a skill you're not using and/or pick up a glider at level 2 or 3 and start putting ranks in then.
You might also consider the possibility of investing 4000 gp for a head band of intelligence. Removing it at any time will effectively allow you to retrain a number of skills, as you will lose ranks 1 rank per a level, and then regain them after wearing the headband on again for an amount of time (a week, I think?) At least, that seems like how it works. It's not intelligence damage, so you aren't limited to your 'old' skills.
That is not how a Headband of Vast Intelligence works in Pathfinder. The headband gives you maximum ranks in one skill per +2 of intelligence bonus, and that skill is determined when the headband is made (meaning that the selected skill could be totally or partially redundant for some wearers).
Of course, if the person who started this thread manages to get a Headband of Vast Intelligence with Fly as the associated skill, then his problem is solved. Whether he wants to retrain away any actual Fly skill ranks that he has depends on whether he thinks it likely that he will want to trade in that headband for one with different associated skills in the future.
You are right, of course. My mistake. I don't suppose there's an item that grants a competence bonus to Fly is there?
|
You are right, of course. My mistake. I don't suppose there's an item that grants a competence bonus to Fly is there?
A Cracked Magenta Prism Ioun Stone gives you a +2 competence bonus to any skill of your choice. You can also swap it out for a different skill once per day to suit your needs for that day. It's only 800g. There's also one for 200g that will give you a +1 comp bonus on a skill (deep red sphere for dex skills)
I'll second that you can't save up skill points but you could ask to retrain a skill you're not using and/or pick up a glider at level 2 or 3 and start putting ranks in then.
Beat me to it!
Another option to consider is VMC Wizard, selecting the Air school. At 7th level you gain an enhancement bonus to Fly checks that increases with your character level beyond that point.
Take the Rich Parents trait and purchase a Glider for 500gp at level 1 you now have a reliable means of flight and can take the fly skill from level 1.
Don't forget that other +Int items (items that are not Headband of Vast Int, such as Robe of Runes) also grant retroactive skill points as if you had gained Int once they become permanent.
|
|
el cuervo, no, they do not grant retroactive skill points, instead they grant Max Ranks in a skill chosen when the item is created.
OldSkoolRPG has the answer, though I doubt you have 500g spare at character creation which you would need to take a rank in it at level 1. You will be 1 rank behind in one skill because you can only do it starting at level 2, but that is better then 5 ranks behind. This also means you only have to retrain Once to "correct" the skill ranks to what you want instead of 3 times. (Retraining lets you retrain your Int Modifier in skill points per retraining.)
|
|
el cuervo, no, they do not grant retroactive skill points, instead they grant Max Ranks in a skill chosen when the item is created.
OldSkoolRPG has the answer, though I doubt you have 500g spare at character creation which you would need to take a rank in it at level 1. You will be 1 rank behind in one skill because you can only do it starting at level 2, but that is better then 5 ranks behind. This also means you only have to retrain Once to "correct" the skill ranks to what you want instead of 3 times. (Retraining lets you retrain your Int Modifier in skill points per retraining.)
Robe of RunesSlot body; Price 44,000 gp; Aura strong transmutation; CL 13th; Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTIONThis robe is made of crimson silk and emblazoned with dozens of spindly runes, each symbolizing a different type of magical effect or syllable of power.
Though favored by wizards, this robe can provide some benefit to any spellcasting creature. While worn, it grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence and allows the wearer to recall, as a free action, up to four levels of spells per day that he had prepared and then cast. Each time a spell is recalled and prepared again in this manner, the sudden rush of magical energy infuses the wearer with power. For 1 round after recalling a spell, the wearer's spell save DCs and attack rolls made with spells gain a +2 enhancement bonus.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTSCraft Wondrous Item, fox's cunning, limited wish; Cost 22,000 gp
RAW it give an increase in intelligence without fixed use of those points.
el cuervo, no, they do not grant retroactive skill points, instead they grant Max Ranks in a skill chosen when the item is created.
Sorry, but you're wrong. ONLY the Headband of Vast Intellect works that way. Other things that provide permanent bonuses to intelligence grant retroactive skill points.
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Also read the FAQ on the PFSRD HERE.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
The point of the Headband granting max ranks is to eliminate the "I take my hat off for a day, then put it on and I now need ranks in Knowledge Geography, so I'll take ranks in that today."
Robe of Runes should, and will at my table, function similarly. What ever ranks are provided by the Robe should be set in stone when it is created.
The point of the Headband granting max ranks is to eliminate the "I take my hat off for a day, then put it on and I now need ranks in Knowledge Geography, so I'll take ranks in that today."
Robe of Runes should, and will at my table, function similarly. What ever ranks are provided by the Robe should be set in stone when it is created.
You're free to house rule it that way but that is not how it works, nor was that the intention of the designers. In addition to the information in my above post, there's also this:
All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.
This is a bit off topic but I was sort of thinking about this. Let's say I have a Headband of Vast Intelligence +4 with the skill Fly and Diplomacy. I pick up an Ioun Stone that gives +2 to INT, and has the skill Disable Device. Now I realize the Ioun stone wouldn't stack with the headband, but is there anything in the way the rules are written that would keep you from getting the skill points?
A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created.
From the way that's written, it seems to me that, if you wear it for 24 hours, you do get the associated skill even though it won't increase your INT. I do realize this is most likely not RAI, but is it RAW?
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
You're free to house rule it that way but that is not how it works, nor was that the intention of the designers.
I'm also free to interpret the rules that way, and we know the intention of the designers in terms of temporary bonuses that become permanent but later are removed. We track what the bonus was and we always use that as the bonus.
[two +INT items worn] but is it RAW?
It is RAW or not depending on your GM's interpretation of the rules.
|
|
The point of the Headband granting max ranks is to eliminate the "I take my hat off for a day, then put it on and I now need ranks in Knowledge Geography, so I'll take ranks in that today."
Robe of Runes should, and will at my table, function similarly. What ever ranks are provided by the Robe should be set in stone when it is created.
I prefer to leave them free points that are assigned when you add a enhancement item for the first time. After that you assign the skill point and they stay assigned. If you remove the item you don't have access to those skill point, when you don it (or another item with the same level of enhancement) you get them back.
It require a bit more paperwork, but it allow the player to choose their skill points and avoid the option to buy or craft several +2 intelligence headband to maximize different skills.For a character with enough money and levels spending 4.000 gp to be able to maximize fly when out adventuring and spellcraft when at home crafting can be worth it.
|
|
This is a bit off topic but I was sort of thinking about this. Let's say I have a Headband of Vast Intelligence +4 with the skill Fly and Diplomacy. I pick up an Ioun Stone that gives +2 to INT, and has the skill Disable Device. Now I realize the Ioun stone wouldn't stack with the headband, but is there anything in the way the rules are written that would keep you from getting the skill points?
A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created.From the way that's written, it seems to me that, if you wear it for 24 hours, you do get the associated skill even though it won't increase your INT. I do realize this is most likely not RAI, but is it RAW?
I have seen people on this forum read that line of text as:
- you get an increase in intelligence, with all the effects, included increased skill pointsplus
- you get a specific maximized skill.
As written and read in a vacuum it is even plausible.
Nowhere it say that you use the new skill points to pay for the linked skill and it is weird that if you have point in that skill they overlap.
Clearly it is not RAI, RAI it is that you spend the new skill point purchasing the linked skill.