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If you are interested in a non-magic skills/social/stealth character, an evil campaign may be a good opportunity to play the Serial Killer Vigilante Archetype. Sneak Attack, Slayer's Studied Target, plus free Dreadful Carnage at 11th level for some intimidation fun.

As some in this thread have noted, being without magic may definitely hamper you power-wise, but you've got plenty of magic in the party, so you can probably get away with it.

I'd also toss out a mesmerist as a possible face option. Strong face skills and nasty debuffing, maybe go enforcer with a sap for some serious intimidate shenanigans. You can be a nasty secondary melee character and still have a lot to contribute to non-combat.

Mr. Bonkers wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Mr. Bonkers wrote:

I have also always wanted to make a Blade Boot build, but it is hard to get around that difficult/impassable terrain problem without serious investment. Still tinkering with that one.
Six levels of aero kineticist should do it. Difficult terrain doesn't matter when you have at will flight. It is an even bigger investment than the staff sling, and the sea knife would be better for the always flying than the blade boot, but it's an interesting idea.

Flying huh, kinda forgot about that solution (I was busy trying to ignore difficult terrain). However, 6 levels of Kineticist is a huge investment for kicking...

But I could also be a Alchemist with the Wings Discovery, allows me to be functional several times a day. I know that this is still a 6 level investment, but the Kineticist doesn't really strike me as a Blade Boot user that much (blasts/kinetic swords and all that). There might be other solutions, but I'll have to look into those. Thanks for the flying tip though, this character is a little closer to his introduction in PFS.

The Magic Warrior Magus archetype can spend 1 arcana point to fly (or use another beast shape 1 power) for one minute per class level. If you go with the original (somewhat poorly written) version , then you can do it at will for free.

Either way, lots of flight + spell combat etc for damage could make the boot blade work. You could make your mask an Eagle and call your blade your talon or something.

Merellin wrote:
Hmm... Is there any archetypes of other classes that gets the Alchemists Mutagen?

Mutagenic Mauler (Brawler) and Mutation Warrior (Fighter) off the top of my head. You can also get Mutagen as an Investigator with a discovery.

It's pretty wild that however many years into Pathfinder we are, this fairly basic question about a core class's highlight feature remains unanswered.

FedoraFerret wrote:
Godferret wrote:
I feel dumb for asking this but searching on d20pfsrd isn't helping me. How do I use the whip to get bleed damage? Is it just a matter of a wounding weapon that I can use at more of a range? Thanks.
Well, my fellow ferret, the cabalist deals its bleed damage by attacking with a slashing or piercing weapon, and whips do slashing damage. As an aside, this also makes them eligible for Slashing Grace.

Ah, thank you, kind ferret. I was definitely over thinking it. I'll definitely consider a whip cabalist if I pursue that archetype!

Vigilante Talents wrote:
Whip of Vengeance (Inner Sea Intrigue): You get Whip Mastery as a bonus feat, Improved Whip Mastery at 6, and treat your vigilante level as your base attack bonus for the purpose of other Whip Mastery based feats. Did you want to use a whip? Cool, grab Weapon Focus at level one and this at level 2. Do you not care about whips? Then ignore. Good choice for cabalists to deal their bleed damage from afar.

I feel dumb for asking this but searching on d20pfsrd isn't helping me. How do I use the whip to get bleed damage? Is it just a matter of a wounding weapon that I can use at more of a range? Thanks.

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Rysky wrote:
Godferret wrote:
I don't know if there is a way to ping or message users on this forum, but I have previously seen the user Mikaze discuss the issue of racism in fantasy stories/gaming with a great deal of nuance. They might have something to offer on this if there's a way to contact them.

You can go to a person's individual pager in order to send them a private message ^w^

Unfortunately Mikaze (who is beyond AWESOME) has not been on the boards for some time :(

Thank you for that information, I will keep it in mind in the future. That's a shame about Mikaze, I definitely enjoyed their posts.

I don't know if there is a way to ping or message users on this forum, but I have previously seen the user Mikaze discuss the issue of racism in fantasy stories/gaming with a great deal of nuance. They might have something to offer on this if there's a way to contact them.

I second the suggestion of dipping Wild Child. You don't lose any Animal Companion advancement and even level one martial flexibility is a decently useful ability along with the rest of what a level one Brawler gets.

The Tetori is an archetype for the original monk and uses all of its stats and features that are not modified by the archetype.

Unchained monk archetypes, of which are are a few, should indicate somewhere on the page that they are for the unchained monk.

As for what the unchained monk is, I'd say that it's an attempt to make a class that more closely and effectively accomplishes what people think the monk should do: a hand to hand combat expert with some mystical powers. I'll leave it to others to say whether it's balanced, but it's definitely stronger than a core monk that doesn't take any archetypes.

This is a necro, but I have been looking at building a hunter recently and came across your guide.

For anyone who is looking to use pack flanking etc but doesn't want to get a 13 int for combat expertise, beginning the build with a one level dip in Wild Child Brawler will allow you to sidestep the Int requirement. You also net some extra HP, 4 uses of Martial Flexibility per day, and Improved Unarmed Strike (useful for reach builds). You fall behind one level on spells and other abilities, but your AC will be at full progression.

Great. Thank you so much!


Dragon Style allows you to " ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw." When charging through difficult terrain, does it still take two squares of movement per square of difficult terrain, or does "ignore" mean you treat it exactly like normal terrain and move through it using a normal amount of movement?

To be clear, does a Dragon Style charge that passes through ten feet of difficult terrain take ten or twenty feet of movement to get through there?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

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The Bodak sounds sort of like what you're talking about. It's an extraplanar undead that can be created by a humanoid witnessing a great supernatural evil.

Aziraya Zhwan wrote:

Personally I would also look into being a Slayer of the Bodyguard archetype. Being able to Dirty Trick whenever you would be able to Sneak Attack can get absolutely nasty. With a full BAB progression, a handful of extra feats and a pretty good increase to the CMB for Dirty Tricks based on your Sneak Attack progression makes for a very good Dirty Tricker.

As for the Belt of Superior Maneuvers, you would probably be better off ignoring it and just saving up for a Belt of Incredible Dexterity or Belt of Giant Strength since they take up the same slot. A +2 enhancement to the applicable ability score essentially gives you a +1 enhancement to the CMB check except it works for an infinite times a day and gives you the other general bonuses that the ability score gives you.

This is a good suggestion, but I think you mean the Bounty Hunter Slayer Archetype for dirty trick on sneak attack opportunities.

Godferret wrote:

If you need to go significantly farther than the practical range of Wind Walk, like, say, the other side of an earth sized planet (earth's circumference is ~24900 mi), one of your clerics could use Lesser Planar Ally to hire a Janni to use plane shift to take you first to the astral plane or an elemental plane, and then again to shift you within 500 miles of your destination; then you could Wind Walk or something the rest of the way. It's probably only efficient over super long distances. It'll cost you 500 gold plus their fee, but that's not so bad.

I don't know the Bestiary that well, maybe there is some sort of Outsider you can get with actual Teleport or Greater Teleport to be a proper taxi service.

I realize now that, of course, you can't guarantee a particular type of outsider with that spell. So this isn't as helpful if you can't learn a particular Janni (or other Genie's) true name. Not as helpful as I'd hoped.

Still, I suppose you could use your own castings of plane shift for a similar effect. Again, only really useful if you're going somewhere thousands of miles away.

If you need to go significantly farther than the practical range of Wind Walk, like, say, the other side of an earth sized planet (earth's circumference is ~24900 mi), one of your clerics could use Lesser Planar Ally to hire a Janni to use plane shift to take you first to the astral plane or an elemental plane, and then again to shift you within 500 miles of your destination; then you could Wind Walk or something the rest of the way. It's probably only efficient over super long distances. It'll cost you 500 gold plus their fee, but that's not so bad.

I don't know the Bestiary that well, maybe there is some sort of Outsider you can get with actual Teleport or Greater Teleport to be a proper taxi service.

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
AFAICT that says a result of 20 or less does mean you can't call a fey at all, not that it doesn't. How are you parsing it?

Wow. I... just read it wrong. Repeatedly. I think I need to sleep more. Thank you.

This Spell has me pretty confused.

Lesser Entice Fey wrote:

This spell functions as lesser planar ally, except that you entice a fey of 6 HD or fewer to lend you its aid with an offering of music or something else it finds appealing. Like lesser planar ally, this spell is unpredictable, and the fey who answers the calling is up to the whims of nature and the fey, not your own choice.

You must succeed at a Knowledge (nature) check or Perform check (DC = 20 + target's HD) in addition to the spell's material component to entice the fey into appearing, after which you can negotiate for the service and your payment. The maximum HD of fey that you can call with that casting is equal to the result of your check – 20. For example, if your check result is a 24, the maximum HD for the called fey is 4. A high result doesn't allow you to break the HD maximum for the spell, and a result of 20 or less means you can't call a fey at all. If the fey doesn't like the sound of your offer, it can simply choose to refuse, in which case you don't expend any of the material components for the spell, either the offerings or the payment.

I'm particularly confused by the last chunk concerning the perform or knowledge check. It says you have to make a check and the result -20 is the HD limit of what you can call. It also says that rolling 20 or fewer doesn't mean you can't call a fey at all. But then what DOES it mean? If the HD limit of what I can call is zero or a negative number, that seems like I can't call a fey at all. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to interpret this?

Blake's Tiger wrote:
I think it depends on how "depends on form" is interpreted. I think Chameleon and Nauseating Flesh would still work. Preserve Organs would be wasteful because you get those free. Spontaneous Healing would definitely work.

Yeah, only good reason to get Preserve Organs is if you're going for Mummify. Though, since so few discoveries seem to be worth getting with this Archetype, it may well be worth getting a useless one to pick up those sweet Mummify immunities.

Vaellen wrote:
They should stack. Other abilities that add damage to level stack so these should too.

Thank you for your quick response. That's good to know.

Both of the above Vigilante talents add (with qualifications) half of an Avenger Vigilante's level to damage. One of them effects finessed weapons when you use strength for damage, the other effects unarmed strikes and gauntlets. You could conceivably have both talents; if you did, would their effect stack when finessing your unarmed strike and using strength for damage?

I know that two abilities that add the same ability score bonus don't stack (ala Warpriest/Monk), but I couldn't figure out if the rule is the same for abilities that add your level (or a fraction thereof). Intuitively it seems that the same rule would apply, but I figured it was worth asking the forum. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

**Edited to correct a terminology error.

draxar wrote:
Yebng wrote:
Has bestiary 5 been added into the guide yet?

Not yet. Hadn't been playing Pathfinder for a while,, plus I tend to use d20pfsrd's spreadsheet for checking, and that didn't appear to have been updated with it.

Looks like the Pathfinder Community one has though, so when I have the time, I'll go through and add anything useful from the new stuff in.

For Monstrous Physique, I'd recommend checking out Bestiary 5's Gegenees. It seems like it was maybe supposed to be a humanoid (giant) but as it was published, it is a huge monstrous humanoid (giant) with six 2d6 slam attacks.

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technarken wrote:
Dip a single level in Mutagenic Mauler Brawler. Now you've got mutagens AND better weapons. Enjoy the endless tranq poison your Homunculus gets.

That is devious, I love it.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Exemplar appears to work. I wonder if there are other classes that offer Bardic Performance besides, well, the Bard. Some compare and contrast would be good to weigh options.

The Sensei Monk gains Bardic Performance off of wisdom, but it looses flurry and generally isn't that strong in the sort of direct combat that I feel like these characters are geared towards. The Evangelist has already been mentioned. I know that there is a Medium archetype that gets performance, Storyteller, but that is probably more mystical than you're really looking for. No other ones are springing to mind. I think Exemplar may be the way to go.

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I have a small suggestion for an addition to your feat section. As an alternative to Combat Expertise, you may want to mention Dirty Fighting from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox:

Dirty Fighting wrote:

Benefit(s): When you attempt a combat maneuver check against a foe you are flanking, you can forgo the +2 bonus on your attack roll for flanking to instead have the combat maneuver not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you have a feat or ability that allows you to attempt the combat maneuver without provoking an attack of opportunity, you can instead increase the bonus on your attack roll for flanking to +4 for the combat maneuver check.

Special: This feat counts as having Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites.

The primary benefit is that it does not have the Int 13 requirement that Combat Expertise does; many monks can't spare the points for that score. Plus it can be useful if you are going for maneuvers.

Anonymous Warrior wrote:

You are right, of course. My mistake. I don't suppose there's an item that grants a competence bonus to Fly is there?

Not as far as I can tell. However, a GM may well be willing to allow one to purchase a "masterwork flying kit" based on the climbing kit. A +2 Competence bonus for some fins or something that strap to your clothes, priced comparably to a climbing kit, maybe a bit more to account for the more exotic nature of the activity. The rules for masterwork tools leave room for developing custom ones for other skills.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

This does seem to be a problem. FAQ'd.

I read it as costing one additional burn on top of the burn cost of the initial composite blast, so 3 burn. Here's the rule, so others can weigh in:

Aetheric Boost wrote:
You infuse a simple blast you know with aether, causing it to deal 1 additional point of damage of the same type for each of its damage dice; it otherwise acts as the simple blast. At 15th level, you can also infuse a composite blast with aether. To infuse a composite blast in this way, you must accept 1 additional point of burn.

Thank you both for your prompt response. That is what I thought but I wanted to confirm.

Turin the Mad wrote:
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
I wasn't aware of that Ultimate Campaign option, but even if your GM allows it, you can see that it has its limitations. Linguistics and a high Intelligence is still your best option. Well, that and play a Tengu.
The UC option does not count towards the normal limit - they are in addition to the normal limit of known languages. Which is why each language takes 3 weeks to learn and costs (level x210) gp.

True, but it is still limited by your intelligence modifier +1. So a higher INT is still key to learning many languages.

I apologize if this has been answered before; I did some searching and couldn't find it.

If you are maintaining a spell with a duration of "Concentration" in combat, can you only cease concentration (and end the spell) on your own turn? Let's leave aside for a moment why you'd want to (I've got a sort of screwy situation in my head where this might be useful, but now I'm honestly just curious). My instinct is that you can't because nothing says you can and the default is that you can't act off turn. In the duration section of the magic rules, it says:

d20pfsrd.org wrote:
A spell that depends on concentration is dismissible by its very nature, and dismissing it does not take an action, since all you have to do to end the spell is to stop concentrating on your turn.

So, if something doesn't take an action, can I do it off turn?

One option to consider is the Totemic Skald Archetype, which can grant an animal focus as part of its raging song at level 3. It doesn't grant additional AoOs, but it does give a +2 bonus on them, which could be good if you're maybe going to have a lot of people using reach weapons.

Again, thank you both very much. I think I was over-thinking it.

Thank you both so much for your prompt responses. I had based my conclusion on a misunderstanding of the duration section of the magic rules, but having re-read it I see that you are correct.

Your answer raises a follow-up question to me; if a character was inside the cloud when the spell concluded, would they count as having left the cloud? That is to say, if they were nauseated would they continue to be nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds, or would their nausea end once the spell ended. Thank you again for your help.

Stinking Cloud nauseates you for 1d4+1 rounds after you leave the cloud. Even if you still have rounds of nausea left, you stop being nauseated once the spell's duration ends, correct?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Anzyr wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
The Shaman is just as OP as the Cleric, Druid, Wizard, and Arcanist are. But the Shaman also has much more interesting class features and has the unusual distinction of being the only dedicated caster type that actually gets stronger with a higher point buy.

Correction & translation - The Shaman is the most OP class in PF by virtue of being given a crap load of stuff that have no thematic relevance.... leaving aside the glaring fact that the class itself is a farce since Shaman archetypes were already available via the Druid (notice nothing to do with Oracle and Witch)and going on further to prove my point there are several 3PP Shaman archetypes all based on...... yup youve guessed it... the Druid!

LOL.... "Interesting class features"..... yeah you could say that!

Uh it actually does have interesting and flexible class features. Sure all of the abilities. And considering Spirit Shaman was a thing in 3.5, there seems plenty of space for divine caster who receives spells from spirits instead of nature or god. And the most OP class is Sylvan Razmiran Priest Sorcerer.

I don't feel qualified to comment on the OP nature of the Shaman (though it strikes me as quite good), but in the context of the conversation I think it's worth noting that the 3.5 Spirit Shaman casted off the Druid spell list with a mechanic that was similar to the Arcanist's. So I don't know how much of a counter that provides to the argument that the PF Shaman should be more like the Druid.

If Gado has a religious bent, you could consider a Forge Priest Warpriest. It's crafting focused like a Soul Forger. Definitely not the most optimized archetype, but it crafts decently and is very dwarf-y.


Dwarf. If the speed bothers you, grab the Exploration Subdomain and see through walls (to find monsters). Alternatively, if you want to be a face you can grab the conversion inquisition and use Wis for your social skills. You'll be really tough and a great caster. Plus, you'll still have longbow proficiency if you want to go ranged and you can use racial traits/feats to boost your saves super high.

I'm considering a Fated Champion Skald for an upcoming campaign; I wanted to actually see what spells were covered by this ability:

Far Seer wrote:

At 5th level, a fated champion learns a method of spell kenning that is especially suited for divining and understanding the future, but not for directly harming opponents. For the purpose of determining what level spell slot he expends when using spell kenning, the skald treats the spell level of spells that predict the future (such as augury and divination) as one spell level lower (minimum spell level 1st), and treats the spell level of spells that deal damage as one spell level higher.

This ability alters the spell kenning class feature.

I'm trying to determine what other spells qualify as spells "that predict the future." Harrowing and the greater version seem to qualify, assuming my GM is willing to let me take the time to mess around with a harrow deck. But what else? Contact Other Plane seems like it may qualify, assuming I use it to ask about the future. Any other ideas? I like the archetype and I can't imagine I'd frequently be using Spell Kenning to deal damage directly, so I am not terribly concerned about the downsides of this ability, but I want to make sure that if I take this archetype, I do so knowing it's full potential. Thanks.

Sissyl wrote:

The best idea is to get help for a simple phobia. It doesn't even have to cost too much to get it. If the phobia hurts your life, you will get a new life after treating it.

If that is not possible, sure, you could remove the <thing> from all RPGing and be done with it. However, it's not always a good thing. These things can be VERY disruptive. For example, I had to deal with a huge bunch of people who had a triskadekaphobic among them - she was afraid of the number 13. And everyone had adapted to her. They wrote 12+1 when they meant 13, and so on. That is... too far.

While it's certainly prudent and advisable to work to overcome phobias and other difficulties with subject matters, it's not realistic to do so before continuing this game.

Your friend (and maybe you also, use your judgment as to the dynamics) should talk to your DM, explain that it bothers them. If necessary, ask the other players who recognize the issue to support you. From your description, it doesn't sound like this issue is central to the adventure, so your DM should be able to help, assuming they are cooperative. If it can't be resolved, for whatever reason, then that is unfortunate and your friend should perhaps consider another adventure with a plot and or gm that better suits his needs.

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I'm far from an expert on theorycraft, I'm sure people will come along and explain this in more detail and with better ideas. Basically, the ability of a wizard to defeat a large opposing force (especially if they do not have similarly powerful casters at their disposal) is based around a few elements.

1. Wizards have many ways of defending themselves that cannot be defeated by mundane means. Wizards can fly, use greater invisibility, and employ all manner of abjurations to avoid enemies. They can shapeshift to get tougher or to hide. A wizard can base themselves on another plane, even their own demiplane, and attack via astral projection. All of this is to say that it is not so simple as surrounding them and drowning them in grunts' blood.

2. Wizards have many means of attacking without exposing themselves. On the simpler side of things, they could turn invisible/fly etc and begin to summon allies to help them. But they don't even have to be on the battlefield to command minions. They could dominate or otherwise control powerful creatures to go and attack their enemies. They could bind a powerful outsider. For example, a very high level wizard could, from the other side of the world, bind an Olethrodaemon and order it to greater teleport directly to the enemy's primary citadel and destroy it. Without some serious high level aid, a mundane army would have no hope of stopping it. Wizards can build simulacrums of powerful monsters, and can use astral projection do all of this from a safe, extra-planar location.

3. Even if you fight a wizard in person, they have many means of retreat and escape. Teleport, plane shift, contingencies, even time stop/wish, means that getting the drop on a wizard may not be enough, unless you can end the fight before they can act.

In practice, it's just too hard to pin down a well-prepared wizard and they can too easily fight from any number of defensive locations with little diminution of their offensive power.

Eldritch Scion Magus changes the casting stat to Charisma.

Scarred Witch Doctor (Orc Racial Archetype) Witch changes the casting stat to Constitution.

No others are coming to mind.

Alchemist with Feral Mutagen is a popular Natural Attack build, from what I understand. For an absurd number of Natural Attacks be a Ragebred Skinwalker with the Extra Feature feat and always be in bestial form, so you have Gore/Hoof/Hoof. When using your Mutagen you will add Bite/Claw/Claw (All Primary) to your routine, for 6 natural attacks at level 2, 4 of which will be primary. Take the tentacle discover if you want to add even more attacks.

Came back only to be barely beaten to the punch by Secret Wizard. If you can find the feats and have access to the books then Nature's Soul + Animal Ally + Boon Companion will get it for you.

Lune wrote:

4. Battle Herald
Well, if I am going with Skald and Cavalier anyway then this seems like a natural progression. The interaction of how this class's Inspiring Command ability works with Raging Song is pretty wonky. I am kinda feeling that figuring out how that works may not be worth taking the class over. However, maybe I'm missing something fairly obvious here?

It is probably better to continue with Skald as it continues spell progression and Raging Song progression.

Battle Herald requires Inspire Courage, which Skalds do not get. Too bad, because it seems like a fun version of the PRC

Not Skald related, but if you're looking for a different spin on a Battle Herald, try the Evangelist Cleric Archetype, which does get Inspire Courage along with some other Bardic Performances.

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The only way I can think of to use Weapon Finesse on a trident is to use a Fighter's Fork

Not very useful as a general solution, I just always thought it was a funny image for a magic item.

Secret Wizard" wrote:

Godferret wrote:
A potential race to mention is Hobgoblins. +2 Dex & Con, Darkvision 60ft, and a +4 bonus to stealth. Nothing too amazing on its own, but all in all a decent package, I think.

Hobgoblins are one of my favorite races and I usually roll them for any martial.

The bad part is that none of the racial traits beyond the attributes and darkvision are amazing. The extra Stealth is nice, but you are not that great of a stealther, without the class skill or hide in plain sight. The Intimidate bonus is awesome for builds based on that, sure. Magehunter is cool, and what I usually go with. Battle-Hardened is also a good option.

But in any case, I think I made it clear in the race section that I wasn't going to talk about each and every race, as I made clear what attributes or bonuses were good and which weren't.

Ugh you're totally right, you did make that super clear, my bad. I too am a great fan of Hobgoblins; I have a bit of an instinct to chime in for them.

Edited for quote nesting.

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A potential race to mention is Hobgoblins. +2 Dex & Con, Darkvision 60ft, and a +4 bonus to stealth. Nothing too amazing on its own, but all in all a decent package, I think.

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