One of my players plays and Ifrit necromancer and wants to become a lich. How would I do this
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One of my players plays and Ifrit necromancer and wants to become a lich. How would I do this
Assuming he meets the listed requirements, then apply the template.
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Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
So the character must be 11th level and have the Craft Wondrous Item feat, and pay the gold cost.
You should come up with a personalized ritual for the character to reflect how they make the transformation. Traditionally this requires great acts of evil, widespread death of innocents, and other nefarious things. You could make a whole adventure of it, and involve NPC heroes attempting to stop the character from succeeding. However, if you don't want to do all that, you could make a unique situation that allows the character to use neutral or even good acts to grant himself unlife.
Ifrit are outsiders and lack the dual nature required to become a lich. No soul to store and all that. While native outsiders can be raised, it is never stated that they have a dual nature.
However! Due to the role of genies in popular culture, I don't think it's too far fetched to have him become a "genie of the lamp" instead of your classic lich. Treat it exactly the same as the lich, just require the phylactery to be a vessel of some sort and store the essence of his mortality in the vessel rather than his soul.
If he likes the change, see about refluffing some of the lich stuff to be more efreeti.
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Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.So the character must be 11th level and have the Craft Wondrous Item feat, and pay the gold cost.
You should come up with a personalized ritual for the character to reflect how they make the transformation. Traditionally this requires great acts of evil, widespread death of innocents, and other nefarious things. You could make a whole adventure of it, and involve NPC heroes attempting to stop the character from succeeding. However, if you don't want to do all that, you could make a unique situation that allows the character to use neutral or even good acts to grant himself unlife.
Small point of contest: must have a caster level of 11 or higher. Meaning that their effective caster level, not necessarily their level, must be 11.
So yes, it takes longer for an antipaladin, bloodrager, or ranger to become a lich,and it's a little questionable if alchemists and investigators can become lich.
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Small point of contest: must have a caster level of 11 or higher. Meaning that their effective caster level, not necessarily their level, must be 11.
So yes, it takes longer for an antipaladin, bloodrager, or ranger to become a lich,and it's a little questionable if alchemists and investigators can become lich.
The OP specifically referenced a necromancer.
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The OP specifically referenced a necromancer.Small point of contest: must have a caster level of 11 or higher. Meaning that their effective caster level, not necessarily their level, must be 11.
So yes, it takes longer for an antipaladin, bloodrager, or ranger to become a lich,and it's a little questionable if alchemists and investigators can become lich.
Ah, fair enough. My apologies.
Though honestly, who wouldn't want to see some less stereotypical liches out there?Also, would consider looking at Way of The Wicked, which goes a bit more into how to make a lich as a player, though not much, sadly. Each lich's path to lichdom is unique.
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Ifrit are outsiders and lack the dual nature required to become a lich. No soul to store and all that. While native outsiders can be raised, it is never stated that they have a dual nature.
Lich template requires only 'living creature', so they qualify just fine. Assuming they don't have a dual nature is also reading too far into the text, especially considering that the ability to be raised heavily implies as such.
Also, Ifrit don't have to be related to Efreeti, oddly enough.
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Ifrits are native outsiders. From the SRD:
This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.
So, a native outsider have a soul... and can be a lich ;)
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This might have been a tougher question if we replaced Ifrit with Efreet.
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Though honestly, who wouldn't want to see some less stereotypical liches out there?
Also, would consider looking at Way of The Wicked, which goes a bit more into how to make a lich as a player, though not much, sadly. Each lich's path to lichdom is unique.
I know I'd love to see more types of lich than the stereotypical skeleton wizard, and an ifrit lich sounds like a great way to look into other options.
Personally, I'm imagining some kind of constantly burning corpse, brought into being by bathing in the flames he used to raze an entire city to the ground as the final part of his ascension to lichdom, which even now continue to burn his body.
Ifrits are native outsiders. From the SRD:
This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.So, a native outsider have a soul... and can be a lich ;)
That doesn't say they get a soul, it says they can be brought back due to a strong connection to the material plane. They also use an outsider reincarnate list, implying that their essence is the right shape for other creatures without dual natures. No soul, though reading it as them having one is much simpler.
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Normal, non-native outsiders still have a soul. It is just attached to their body, and so isn't released at death.
Not that that actually matters, as the liches rejuvenation doesn't reattach its soul to its body, it just creates a new body (similiar to true resurrection).
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Small point of contest: must have a caster level of 11 or higher. Meaning that their effective caster level, not necessarily their level, must be 11.So yes, it takes longer for an antipaladin, bloodrager, or ranger to become a lich,and it's a little questionable if alchemists and investigators can become lich.
Small point of correction, Bloodrager caster level is equal to class level, not level -3 as a ranger or (anti)paladin. Of course, going undead is generally a bad idea for a bloodrager, as they become immune to their own rage.
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So we have crowdsourced an 11th level (or higher) Ifrit Bloodrager lich who appears as a flaming skeleton and gets the rage bonus to its casting stat.
I duno about you but that sound pretty badass to me.
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So we have crowdsourced an 11th level (or higher) Ifrit Bloodrager lich who appears as a flaming skeleton and gets the rage bonus to its casting stat.
I duno about you but that sound pretty badass to me.
Badass enough that I just found my next villain to sic on my players!
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Badass enough that I just found my next villain to sic on my players!So we have crowdsourced an 11th level (or higher) Ifrit Bloodrager lich who appears as a flaming skeleton and gets the rage bonus to its casting stat.
I duno about you but that sound pretty badass to me.
I am considering that too...
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An "Ifritch"?
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That doesn't say they get a soul, it says they can be brought back due to a strong connection to the material plane. They also use an outsider reincarnate list, implying that their essence is the right shape for other creatures without dual natures. No soul, though reading it as them having one is much simpler.Ifrits are native outsiders. From the SRD:
This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.So, a native outsider have a soul... and can be a lich ;)
None of this matters, even outsiders can become liches dual nature or not.
The lich template states:
“Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.
and the Outsider type states:
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
emphasis mine but the point remains that Outsiders are living creatures (and thus so are Native Outsiders) and that is one of a whopping two requirements to become a lich. If an outsider can make the phylactery they can become a lich per the rules even if that doesn't make any narrative sense.
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If an outsider can make the phylactery they can become a lich per the rules even if that doesn't make any narrative sense.
Arazni was a demigod and now she's a lich
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If an outsider can make the phylactery they can become a lich per the rules even if that doesn't make any narrative sense.Arazni was a demigod and now she's a lich
that's why I used IF. It might make narrative sense, it might not, depends on the setting used and it's cosmology. Either way however it can happen, and yours is an excellent example.
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If an outsider can make the phylactery they can become a lich per the rules even if that doesn't make any narrative sense
That actually raises an interesting question, could a traditional outsider benefit from becoming a lich? Granted the main 'immortality' selling point wouldn't matter much to a demon or devil, but the actual rejuvenating might be desirable for some of them, since violence is pretty much the only way to actually kill most outsiders. Would definitely be the ultimate DM dick move either way. (Oh, so you thought you killed Dagon? Yeah, funny story about that...)
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So we have crowdsourced an 11th level (or higher) Ifrit Bloodrager lich who appears as a flaming skeleton and gets the rage bonus to its casting stat.
I duno about you but that sound pretty badass to me.
and give it a Nightmare as a mount
The lich template states:
“Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.
Bold a different part of your quote, include the phylactery description,
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul.
and suddenly they don't meet the criteria without a soul, a soul being unavailable to creatures without a dual nature. If we make the assumption that being a native outsider gives you a soul, or that there's some other method of acquiring a soul as an outsider(maybe magic jar lets you project what would be your soul if you had one), then sure it works.
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Again, outsiders do have a soul. It just isn't separate from their body like it is for other living creatures.
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul.
Nothing more than fluff. The only requirements to make a phylactery are Craft Wondrous Item, caster level of 11, the ability to cast spells, and 120,000gp worth of components.
Again, outsiders do have a soul. It just isn't separate from their body like it is for other living creatures.
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul.Nothing more than fluff. The only requirements to make a phylactery are Craft Wondrous Item, caster level of 11, the ability to cast spells, and 120,000gp worth of components.
i like this idea that for a true outsider to become a lich they would have to chop off a hand after shifting all their inner soulstuff into it, then seal it in with the rest of their soul
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and give it a Nightmare as a mountSo we have crowdsourced an 11th level (or higher) Ifrit Bloodrager lich who appears as a flaming skeleton and gets the rage bonus to its casting stat.
I duno about you but that sound pretty badass to me.
Okay, now we just have the cover of a metal album.
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So we have crowdsourced an 11th level (or higher) Ifrit Bloodrager lich who appears as a flaming skeleton and gets the rage bonus to its casting stat.
I duno about you but that sound pretty badass to me.
Unholy hell, but that does kind of blow my antipaladin lich masquerading as a death knight out of the water...
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Unholy hell, but that does kind of blow my antipaladin lich masquerading as a death knight out of the water...
Well, at least you've still got the magus death knight masquerading as a lich.
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Again, outsiders do have a soul. It just isn't separate from their body like it is for other living creatures.
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul.Nothing more than fluff. The only requirements to make a phylactery are Craft Wondrous Item, caster level of 11, the ability to cast spells, and 120,000gp worth of components.
They can make the magic item required to become a lich, but they have no way to use it.
Well, maybe a good UMD check could get around that.
I'm all for workarounds, but this doesn't work right out of the box.
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They can make the magic item required to become a lich, but they have no way to use it.
Sure they do. I imagine having their soul separated from their form for the first time ever is quite a traumatic experience. Making the remains a hideous undead is quite appropriate.
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They can make the magic item required to become a lich, but they have no way to use it.
Well, maybe a good UMD check could get around that.
I'm all for workarounds, but this doesn't work right out of the box.
It works perfectly fine. All the phylactery does is create a new body for the lich after the lich is killed. Outsiders can be resurrected just fine (it just requirestrue resurrection, which creates a new body just like the liches phylactery does.
Not to mention that the process of becoming a lich makes the outsider turn into an undead. It is no longer an outsider, so the oustider type rules no longer apply. The creature's soul is no longer one with the body (like it is with normal outsiders), as it has been removed and placed into a little box.
The template can be applied to any living creature. If outsiders could not be liches than an exception would be made, and it would instead say "any living creature (except outsiders)".
Pathfinder outsiders can be liches just fine. Especially in this case, as ifrits are native outsiders, not true outsiders.
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The lich template states:
“Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.Bold a different part of your quote, include the phylactery description,
and suddenly they don't meet the criteria without a soul, a soul being unavailable to creatures without a dual nature. If we make the assumption that being a native outsider gives you a soul, or that there's some other method of acquiring a soul as an outsider(maybe magic jar lets you project what would be your soul if you had one), then sure it works.
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul.
from outsider again (please read creature type):
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
There's its soul right there. Also as it acquires the Lich template its type changes to undead removing the whole "Dual Nature" status anyway (as Jeraa pointed out).
If you are so set on the narrative being the driving force and it doesn't make sense in your mind for this to work then disallow it at your table but don't burden the OP with story when they asked a rules question. Also while I'm not quite sure what Arazni's type was prior to tranformation into a lich (I've only seen her stats for now) Entryhazard does make a compelling case for that to be an in-universe example of an Outsider lich, i mean she was a demi-god seems outsider-y to me.(this is presuming you are playing in Galorian you may not be)
Sounds wicked. I'm liking the idea of a lich "born by fire." Very thematic.
Someone brought up a bloodrager, and that made me think of the Graveknight. It's kind of a lich-themed undead for martial characters. Not sure you can become one intentionally, but it'd still be a neat idea!
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One of my players plays and Ifrit necromancer and wants to become a lich. How would I do this
I'd make him look like Ghost Rider...
Oh yes.... :D
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Outsider undead are generally rather fun. Can make an undead horde by just killing called outsiders rather than attracting tonnes of attention by digging up corpses.
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One of my players plays and Ifrit necromancer and wants to become a lich. How would I do thisI'd make him look like Ghost Rider...
Oh yes.... :D
One of my players actually did something like that for an evil oneshot I ran at one point. Course the effect was slightly ruined when everyone else at the table started doing Nicolas Cage impressions.
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Sounds wicked. I'm liking the idea of a lich "born by fire." Very thematic.
Someone brought up a bloodrager, and that made me think of the Graveknight. It's kind of a lich-themed undead for martial characters. Not sure you can become one intentionally, but it'd still be a neat idea!
Graveknights are essentially just Deathknights, I'm assuming Deathknight must be copywritten or come into conflict with usage of the Open Gaming License.
The story/narrative information attached to the template seems to indicate that they rise at random without a set way to create them, there are no included rules such as spells or component cost but there are also in-universe references to them being purposely created by Geb so there must be a way. I assume this is something an individual GM will have to decide upon.
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Sounds wicked. I'm liking the idea of a lich "born by fire." Very thematic.
Someone brought up a bloodrager, and that made me think of the Graveknight. It's kind of a lich-themed undead for martial characters. Not sure you can become one intentionally, but it'd still be a neat idea!
Graveknights are essentially just Deathknights, I'm assuming Deathknight must be copywritten or come into conflict with usage of the Open Gaming License.
The story/narrative information attached to the template seems to indicate that they rise at random without a set way to create them, there are no included rules such as spells or component cost but there are also in-universe references to them being purposely created by Geb so there must be a way. I assume this is something an individual GM will have to decide upon.
Technically speaking, Undead Revisited does include a section on deliberate Graveknight creation. The srd covers it here under 'Variants'. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/graveknight-cr- 2
Technically speaking, Undead Revisited does include a section on deliberate Graveknight creation. The srd covers it here under 'Variants'. I LINK FOR THE NOISE
Just a helpful "fix" to make it a tad easier for people to follow.
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Technically speaking, Undead Revisited does include a section on deliberate Graveknight creation. The srd covers it here under 'Variants'. I LINK FOR THE NOISEJust a helpful "fix" to make it a tad easier for people to follow.
Thanks. I'm a bit new at linking to stuff, and posting in general, so apologies for any awkwardness.
No worries! We all have to learn sometime! I didn't know until someone else helped me, either.
For the record, it's
[ url = www.wikipedia.org ] This goes to wikipedia [ / url ]
Becomes
EDIT: I edited my post to be a little more clear, and now that I have more time (since my oven is no longer beeping).
That is so much more of a process than becoming a lich. Even in undeath martials can't have nice things.