OK so I've got a character who's become part of the Pathfinder Faction as per the Faction Guide, and he wants to swap out the 'Rich Parents' trait for 'Defender of Society'. What, if anything, would he lose in this swap, since the original 900 gp of equipment is long gone?
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In PFS, as long as a character is still first level, then it can be modified, as in you can change feats, skills, class, attributes, etc. That's anything and everything
But there are also restrictions to this rule. If there are expendables or charged items (like wands) involved, then you can't trade them back for full value or even half value - you are stuck with the item. This trait would definitely count as an expendable.
The plot gets thicker: Even though there are rules for retraining characters once they have leveled beyond 1st, the retraining rules were written in such a way that most interpret them to exclude traits. Its like your character always been that way.
To make matters even worse, you picked a trait that is specifically banned in PFS and therefore couldn't have been picked in the first place. If you're not playing in PFS then this is a moot point and you would just be stuck with it and my ramblings would be done and your GM would be the final arbitor on how to clean up the accounting mixup.
If, however, this character is a PFS character, then you must get rid of trait and find a suitable one AND you must take the 900 gp penalty. Talk with your Venture Captain on how best to resolve the snafu.
Useful site for all things permitted in PFS
The following parts of the Advanced Player's Guide are NOT legal for play:
...
Traits: hedge magician, natural born leader, and rich parents traits, and all of the Campaign Traits.The Master Alchemist feat may only be selected by Alchemists and Poisoners.
You need to swap out rich parents and lose the 900gp anyway. it is not a legal trait.
on the plus side it won't cost you anything to retrain.If it were a legal trait it is a little complicated to retrain. You need to own ultimate campaign in which you find that traits are NOT an option of the things you can retrain, there simply isn't a cost for them. So, you need to take the feat additional traits (taking a trait you want) then retrain additional traits to something else losing the two traits you don't want.
You can join the Society in a non-Organized Play campaign.
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If this is a home game, talk it over with your GM.
If this is for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, Æthernaut's ramblings are correct. Rich Parents is not a legal option, and you'd have to immediately choose another trait in its place. If this results in a giant mess, consult your local Venture Captain on what to do.
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Generally you can't retrain traits. Your GM may let you if you give up 900 gold. Others might not.
We also use the Faction Guide for players to join factions, as well as Secret Societies from the Occult Mysteries book (since I liked the idea and used it in my non PFS campaign)
I have a few players who took Rich Parents in my campaign. I told them not to since it is worthless after a few levels, but they didn't listen. If they ask if they can retrain, I probably won't let them. But I am pretty easy on them in other areas.
Cheater!!
Sorry I forgot about the organized play society (mostly cause my 'local' FLGS is about an hour away by car for me and thus PFS is not really an option) and this was for a home game NOT the PFS Organized Play.
As you may-or-may-not know in the Faction Guide, one of the options for a character who has 5 TPA is to spend one Current Prestige Award Point and trade out a 'standard' trait for one of the Pathfinder Traits from the guide:
"Exchange one character trait taken at character creation for a new Pathfinder Society trait. The character must still obey the normal trait system rules (such as not having more than one trait from the same category); however, the new trait does not need to be from the same category as the trait it replaces." (p 37, Faction Guide)
BTW I'll also say I wasn't considering having him give up the 900 gp, but more 760 gp, the difference between the average starting money of an Inquisitor, and the 900 gp the trait starts you with. Does the current groupthink still hold that he should have to give up all 900 gp?
Seems to me that you would have to become an orphan or your parents would have to make some really bad investments.
As you pointed out yourself, you already got the main advantage from the trait. It isn't useless, since you are still related to someone who is rich. Money tends to bring social connections that may be useful if you do more than dungeon crawls.
So, when you going to pay your parents back that 900 gp plus interest?
Only your GM should answer that.
I am the GM in the campaign. I am soliciting opinions from others, like minded, as to what they would do in this situation.
By the rules, I believe you would just swap the traits.
You didn't mention what level he was. At first level, 900 gp is a huge amount of money to start with.
If he is now about even with the other characters for wealth, probably just have him pay back his parents in some way. It doesn't have to be money in that case.
If he is still ahead of the other players, have him pay back enough to bring him even and then some favor to the parents.
BTW I'll also say I wasn't considering having him give up the 900 gp, but more 760 gp, the difference between the average starting money of an Inquisitor, and the 900 gp the trait starts you with. Does the current groupthink still hold that he should have to give up all 900 gp?
I agree that you should deduct whatever his starting money would otherwise have been. (Actually I think the trait should be a fixed bonus to your starting wealth so it's equally useful for all classes, but that's irrelevant.) But I also agree that he should be paying "interest" on it, and that should increase steeply with level (multiply the original extra by level or level squared). Otherwise, there's no reason for anyone not to start with Rich Parents, spend the cash, level up, have way more cash, and trade in for a long-lasting trait for an amount of gold they no longer care about.
FTR, what level are we actually looking at?
Sorry I forgot about the organized play society (mostly cause my 'local' FLGS is about an hour away by car for me and thus PFS is not really an option) and this was for a home game NOT the PFS Organized Play.
As you may-or-may-not know in the Faction Guide, one of the options for a character who has 5 TPA is to spend one Current Prestige Award Point and trade out a 'standard' trait for one of the Pathfinder Traits from the guide:
"Exchange one character trait taken at character creation for a new Pathfinder Society trait. The character must still obey the normal trait system rules (such as not having more than one trait from the same category); however, the new trait does not need to be from the same category as the trait it replaces." (p 37, Faction Guide)
BTW I'll also say I wasn't considering having him give up the 900 gp, but more 760 gp, the difference between the average starting money of an Inquisitor, and the 900 gp the trait starts you with. Does the current groupthink still hold that he should have to give up all 900 gp?
If you're using the rule from the Faction Guide and paying the Prestige Award Point then no money would have to be paid back. The Prestige Award Point covers the entire cost and nothing says any moneys or items are required to be refunded. The points can be used to pick up items, spells and discounts so I don't see why it wouldn't cover any 'costs' for swapping traits.
LazarX is too kind. I'd probably end up demanding 10% of all of the character's loot for the rest of campaign simply to discourage future rich parents antics.
BTW I'll also say I wasn't considering having him give up the 900 gp, but more 760 gp, the difference between the average starting money of an Inquisitor, and the 900 gp the trait starts you with. Does the current groupthink still hold that he should have to give up all 900 gp?I agree that you should deduct whatever his starting money would otherwise have been. (Actually I think the trait should be a fixed bonus to your starting wealth so it's equally useful for all classes, but that's irrelevant.) But I also agree that he should be paying "interest" on it, and that should increase steeply with level (multiply the original extra by level or level squared). Otherwise, there's no reason for anyone not to start with Rich Parents, spend the cash, level up, have way more cash, and trade in for a long-lasting trait for an amount of gold they no longer care about.
FTR, what level are we actually looking at?
WAY late here, sorry.
We were looking at level 8, though they'd just achieved that, since I don't hand out PA until the PCs are in a 'safe zone', which here translated to having their camp set-up. He'd been wanting to trade it out since level 5 or so, about the time they began their run from Eleder to Tazion/Saventh-Yhi, till they actually established their camp in Saventh-Yhi at level 7-8.
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Does the current groupthink still hold that he should have to give up all 900 gp?
Probably too late, but yea. If he lost an option that gave him cash, he should probably have to give the extra back. Seems fair.
Otherwise every PC that player makes in the future will "swap out rich parents'. Cake and eating it too, you know.
Take a Drawback to grab an extra trait? Or take the Additional Traits feat?
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I doubt you really should be able to swap out traits like that anyway. Traits tend to be "facts" about your character's history. The past doesn't change just because your character becomes interested in new things. Your parents didn't stop being rich-in-the-past.
You could style it that traits aren't the only "facts" about your past, just the ones that are "in focus" enough to have mechanical benefits. Retraining to different traits could then indicate a changing of priorities.
I would still require the payback of all the money; as long as you're keeping any of it you haven't stopped relying on your rich parents.
Apart from that, retraining Additional Traits and then dropping traits that you didn't acquire with Additional Traits seems very suspicious to me.
So what the OP wants can't be done by strict rules. It makes sense to make some house rules available though.
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I doubt you really should be able to swap out traits like that anyway.
retraining Additional Traits and then dropping traits that you didn't acquire with Additional Traits seems very suspicious to me.
+1 on the swapping out
+1 on the retraining away Additional Traits and taking with it traits you didn't gain from that Feat.
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I'm not saying this because I think Rich Parents is OP. I don't really have any opinion about its power level. But it's clearly a trait that loses its lustre as you level up and 900gp becomes comparatively less money. So it'd be a prime target for a trait you take at low level and then try to trade back in for something else later, which seems a bit cheesy.
And not very appreciative of those parents. They should demand interest on the repayment :P