RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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;I find it odd that you mention liquid ice for ray of frost, but not acid flask for acid splash,
The reason is that Ray of Frost works with the Close Range arcana, and Acid Splash does not.
it's debatable if it works since named bullet specifies thrown weapon and a starknife can be used in melee
Since Named Bullet targets "one piece of ammunition or one thrown weapon" and the starknife is a thrown weapon, I see no reason why that wouldn't work.
Would a level dip into Mesmerist be worth the loss of level to a Hexcrafter Bladebound Magus? Im looking at making curses and such land more often, using Intimidation, and casting, but would the Bold Stare class feature be worth the single level dip to get it?
That's an interesting idea; the mesmerist also gives you a few more useful abilities such as a trick (implant it on yourself to get e.g. a free flank) and a spell like Burst of Adrenaline a couple times per day.
The main problem is that the Magus really doesn't have the swift actions to spare to use the mesmerist's stare in combat. A secondary problem is that the mesmerist is charisma-based, which is normally a dump stat for the Magus.
Overall I'd say it's a decent pick for the Eldritch Scion archetype, not so good for a regular Magus; and either way you should generally avoid Hypnotic Stare.
I see what you mean now, the close range arcana does mention rays. I think most GMs would allow close range to work with acid splash though.
Are you planning to include mythic content guidance in the guide? Magic is more interesting than most classes for mythic because you could conceivably select at least two different paths. The guide material for mythic out there is rather thin.
Mythic Magic items are sometimes allowed for purchase even in games that don't use the mythic rules. There are some there that are pretty good. For example Monocle of Unveiled Auras which is a much more cost effective way of dealing with spell resistance than Otherworldly Kimono/Six Warrior's Edition.
Speaking of Otherwordly Kimono, it really should be included somewhere in the list as it's one of the few non-consumable ways to consistently deal with spell resistance (even if it's rated orange for cost-inefficiency). As you mention, most Magus spells are affected by spell resistance. You do have normal attacks, but if you are content with that, why are you playing a magus? If you are a campaign where you face a lot of enemies with spell resistance, you really do want some permanent bonuses to overcome it. That's of course why you've included spell penetration/greater spell penetration in some of your builds despite them being rated orange. It might even be worth to have a short segment on spell resistance and how there aren't really any good solutions for it outside of mythic and the weird evangelist(desna) for eldrich scion.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Are you planning to include mythic content guidance in the guide?
Given how exceedingly rare it is (to my knowledge) for any game to use the mythic handbook, probably not.
The kimono is not currently listed because of how outrageously expensive it is; you'd have to be, what, level 15 to be able to afford that? That puts it well out of reach of almost every campaign. Decent ways to deal with spell resistance include holding a Rod of Piercing Spell in your tail, or using Snowball + Close Range. It strikes me that the Magus is less affected by SR than a full caster would be.
Come to think of it, I should mention in the spell list which spells ignore SR, for instance Irradiate, Shield of Dawn, and Caustic Blood. (edit) and most of the Magus's BFC spells. All the more reason to diversify beyond spamming shocking grasp.
Yeah the cost is jacked up incredibly high due to the SR ignoring Maze. I thought about mentioning rod of spell piercing, which you haven't listed either. It's certainly green if you have a tail, though due to the way you do ratings, that would probably put it at orange since most doesn't have a tail.
Other casters can actually use rod of spell piercing. Charisma based casters can go evangelist of Desna. Most have a large category of spells that's unavailable to magus though, namely summons. Witches and shamans got their hexes. Wizards might indeed be more heavily affected though, except for those focused on summons of course.
I've seen half a dozen games using the mythic rules. Though if you haven't played with them, it might be best left to others to explain how to use them best.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Yeah the cost is jacked up incredibly high due to the SR ignoring Maze. I thought about mentioning rod of spell piercing, which you haven't listed either.
Yes I have.
Other casters can actually use rod of spell piercing. Charisma based casters can go evangelist of Desna. Most have a large category of spells that's unavailable to magus though, namely summons.
My point is that when faced with impractically high SR, the Magus has a good alternative (i.e. melee) that most pure casters don't have (unless they're invested in summoning, as you say).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Added Brewkeeper and Stargazer prestige classes; Spell Spec, Varisian Tattoo, Moonlight Assault, Divine Fighting, and Bodyguard feats; Kitsune race; cutlass and starknife weapons; Sword Scion trait; Slippers of Scampering and Necklace of Stolen Breath items; Glibness and Gullibility spells. Also, the guide now indicates which spells ignore spell resistance, and which have no somatic component. Notably, Storm Step and Dimension Door can be cast while you're grappled.
I had a question about archetype compatibility.
Your guide states that Hexcrafter and Puppetmaster are compatible, but don't they both alter the spell list?
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Just a small bit of news... I missed this when it happened, but PFS did issue a clarification on the Kapenia Dancer Archetype like I requested.
Varisia, Birthplace of Legends
Page 10—Replace the last sentence of the kapenia dancer's weapon and armor proficiency with the following. "A kapenia dancer is not proficent with armor or shields. He does not have the magus's ability to ignore arcane spell failure from armor; however, if he becomes proficient in light armor, he automatically gains the magus's ability to ignore the arcane spell failure chance from light armor. If he becomes proficient in medium armor, at 7th level he ignores medium armor's chance of arcane spell failure. If he becomes proficient in heavy armor, at 13th level he ignores heavy armor's chance of arcane spell failure. This replaces the magus's normal armor proficiencies, including those gained at 7th and 13th level."
Not a huge boost to the base archetype, as it does not grant anything without proficiency. But since I'd already dipped Occultist, it'll help my build quite a bit. I'll be able to pick up +1 mitral medium armor next level and get a 2-3 point AC boost over using mage armor, while still being able to use Canny Defense.
I'm not sure if this merits inclusion in the guide or not, since for now it's PFS only. Their clarification on the Sword Saint Samurai Archetype did eventually make it into the Golarion FAQ, though, so this might, too.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I'm not sure if this merits inclusion in the guide or not, since for now it's PFS only. Their clarification on the Sword Saint Samurai Archetype did eventually make it into the Golarion FAQ, though, so this might, too.
Thanks. I think I'll wait until this makes it to the FAQ or errata.
Okay, finally got a chance to go through this again (skimming stuff that seems not to have changed).
In the Feats section, where you have Eldritch Assault / Moonlight Assault, is this a typo for Eldritch Assault / Moonlight Stalker? I can't find a Moonlight Assault feat.
Also, you have "Magaambyan Arcana (rce) - Adds a druid or cleric spell to your spell list, offering various new options. See the spells section above", but the Spells section is below.
Equipment: Melee Weapons: "Scimitar Dance" should be "Dervish Dance". Also would be good to rate some more Bludgeoning weapons, in case you come up against things that have DR/Bludgeoning.
Familiars: You have "Small familiars can also be used as a mount, either by a small Magus or with the Undersized Mount feat" -- a Small Magus would need the Undersized Mount feat, and a Medium Magus wouldn't be able to do this without both Undersized Mount and Reduce Person (or Animal Growth, but that's 5th level and you have to snag it from the Sorcerer/Wizard list, so not worth it).
Multiclassing: Winter Witch archetype dip: I wonder if the Witch level and Hexcrafter Magus effective Witch levels stack for your Hexes.
Dipping into Magus: Blade Adept Arcanist: If you combine this with VMC Magus, you get access to just about all of the Magus Arcana from VMC Magus, while Blade Adept Arcanist gives you effective Magus levels for the purpose of determining the effects of Magus Arcana that depend upon Magus level (VMC Magus gives you effective Magus levels for qualifying for Magus Arcana, but not for determining their effect). Suddenly, Maneuver Mastery becomes both available and VERY GOOD.
VMC Magus: Getting Arcane Pool at level 3 takes a while to get going, but isn't bad once it does. If you combine it with Blade Adept Arcanist, you get more Arcane Reservoir/Arcane Pool points, which is quite good.
Combine a dip into Blood Conduit Bloodrager (preferably Aberrant, which is better than the corresponding Sorcerer Bloodline) with Blade Adept Arcanist and VMC Magus, and take the Bloodline Development Arcane Exploit and Mad Magic (and later Maneuver Mastery) when you can, and you get full progression of the Bloodrager Bloodline, which more than compensates for the lack of a VMC Bloodrager. Note that the Rage spell (which will be on your spell list) is good enough to activate your Bloodrager Bloodline abilities, although at higher levels it falls behind your own Bloodrage.
Build for the above (also see the few posts above and below, some of which are related -- they start here for the Bloodrager dip part).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Thanks for the proofread, I've fixed those.
Yes, winter witch and hexcrafter stack, due to the wording on the latter. In terms of bludgeoning weapons, the guide currently has the terbutje, the metamagic rod, and the q'staff. If you have other suggestions I'm happy to hear them.
Regarding the arcanist/bloodrager combo, for the purpose of a general guide like this one I think it's better to point people towards the Eldritch Scion which does more-or-less the same, rather than towards a highly specific build (especially one that doesn't use the Magus class). Nothing wrong with specific builds, of course, they're just not in scope for this document.
Here are some additional bludgeoning weapons worthy of notice:
- Cestus (Simple, Light): In case you are forced to drop your main weapon or otherwise get disarmed, at least you have something.
- Sap (Martial, Light): In case you need to take an enemy alive.
- Light Shield (Martial, Light): If you are a Skirnir Magus and plan to Shield Bash (and eventually Shield Slam) a lot, this will probably be the shield you want (unless you get the Spiked version, or a Klar or Madu, but strangely all of those do Piercing damage only, not both Bludgeoning and Piercing).
- Heavy Shield (Martial, One-Handed): If you are a Skirnir Magus and only plan to shield bash in an emergency (like if you get disarmed or have to fight the occasional Skeleton), this will probably be the shield you want (unless you get the Spiked version, but strangely that does Piercing damage only, not both Bludgeoning and Piercing).
And now a question: I was trying to find how to make a Magus better against hordes of foes, aside from the obvious measures of choosing spells that have multiple charges (Chill Touch, Frostbite, etc.). Looking at the Cleave-series and Whirlwind Attack feats, I can see why these are not in the guide -- their action economy characteristics are not friendly to Spell Combat. Any workarounds for this? I can think of a partial workaround, actually directly stemming from what I just said above: Once you get to middle levels, spells like Chill Touch and Frostbite will have numbers of charges well in excess of what you can use in just 1 round with normal attacks (even when Hasted), so use Spell Combat/Spellstrike with them initially, and then on the next round switch to Cleave or Whirlwind Attack mode until you run out of charges (you wouldn't want to cast another spell if you can avoid it, since this would cancel all remaining charges from the previous spell). Of course, the other problem is that these are both rather feat-intensive and have a feat tax of a feat you probably don't want on most Magi (Power Attack or Combat Expertise, and unfortunately Dirty Fighting doesn't get you off the hook for the latter in the case of prerequisites for Whirlwind Attack).
By the wey, both sizes of Terbutje do Slashing damage, not Bludgeoning.
I can see why Bludgeoning weapons are not favored in a Magus guide -- they all have narrow Criticals (and you can't even put Keen on them to alleviate this slightly, and since almost all of them also only have x2 Critical depth, Improved Critical is of minimal effectiveness with them).
Is the magus-like Phantom Blade Spiritualist going to get a mention? Black blade, spell combat and spellstrike are in common.
Aargh -- Phantom Blade must be part of the content that didn't make it through the www.d20pfsrd.com site migration (and isn't on Archives of Nethys either).
Editfail for above: Found the old site for www.d20pfsrd.com, and Phantom Blade isn't there either. Must be from something really new, or something that they missed.
Even tankier Shield-Slamming Skirnir Magus build for you. Dwarves are awesome, even with the not entirely optimal ability score boosts.
Potentially good spells not yet mentioned in the guide
Lock Gaze, from Ultimate Combat. If you manage to make yourself really tanky (see build linked above), you can punish enemies who don't pay attention to you. This is going to be situational: You would only want to use this if you were one of the least squishy members of your party, unless you can hang out at range and use it (which is presumably what the ranged Bard, ranged Inquisitor, Sorcerer, Wizard, or Witch would do with it, since it is also on their lists).
Shield of Shards, from the Armor Master's Handbook. Normally a Magus wouldn't have a shield, but if you do (Skirnir(*), for instance), and if you are into using spells that provide multiple charges per casting (such as Chill Touch and Frostbite), this could be really good. The question about use with spells would be whether normal Spellstrike would work with the shard attacks, or whether you would need Ranged Spellstrike or Harrowed Spellstrike to work with them. Even if not (and in some cases you might NOT WANT it to blow all your spell charges on 1 opponent in a couple of rounds), the attacks use your Caster Level and primary spellcasting modifier instead of your Base Attack Bonus and Strength or Dexterity modifier.
(*)Make sure you don't need Shielded Spell Combat while this is in effect, because it depends upon you wielding your bonded shield.
Prestige classes
Stargazer: According to the www.d20pfsrd.com page on this, this prestige class is d6 even though it is 3/4 BAB, so you will be rather squishy if you take it, as well as not progressing Magus abilities other than spellcasting (and while you fully progress your spellcasting, it is still 6/9 spellcasting, whereas the prestige class was designed for 9/9 spellcasters). I would bump this down to Orange.
Evangelist: I would rate this at least conditionally higher than Orange, since it progress all of your Magus abilities except at its 1st level, so if you can deal with the daily requirement of Deific Obedience (which admittedly is usually rather harsh and has a harsh penalty if you don't do it), you are no more than 1 level behind on everything. Choose a deity with an Obedience that is easy to meet if you go this route.
Introduction section
The Dexterity Build: Might want to mention up here (even though it is also mentioned way down in the feats section) that most of the ways to get Dexterity-to-Damage no longer work with Spell Combat. However . . .
Feats section
If you mainly use spells that provide multiple charges per casting (such as Chill Touch and Frostbite), Fencing Grace and Slashing Grace aren't totally useless, since once you get past the first few levels you won't be able to use up all the charges in 1 or even 2 rounds, meaning that you won't have Spell Combat interfering with them for a majority of your combat rounds, thereby potentially bringing them back up to Orange.
Shield Slam is another good feat to add, for a Skirnir Magus (or Mindblade Magus with a shield) specializing in Bull Rush (see above build), although the feat tax is rather onerous (normally a Magus DOESN'T want Two-Weapon Fighting, but it's actually useful in its own right on a Skirnir).
Additional Bludgeoning weapons worthy of mention
Dwarven Dorn-Dergar (see build linked above) -- although this is normally two-handed, the Dorn-Dergar Master feat lets you use it one-handed, and the feat descriptive text sounds clearly like it will work with Spell Combat. With this weapon, you get Reach, yet can switch to non-Reach Mode, and the feat cost to get it all online is somewhat less onerous than for a Whip, while enabling you to do more damage. Crit multiplier is less than a Dwarven Waraxe, but otherwise the damage is the same, and you can't get Reach with a Dwarven Waraxe other than whatever you can add with feats and spells (and in rare cases Bloodline Powers), all of which can also be used to make a Dorn-Dergar reach even further.
Races
Dwarf: "Iron Soul" should be "Steel Soul".
Did I mention Dwarves are awesome?
Also a good spell to snag from the Sorcerer/Wizard list
Staggering Fall -- if you're into Combat Maneuvers, this adds to the hurt you inflict. Good on Trip, especially if you manage to get your hands on Ace Trip (make enemies crash HARD out of the air), and also good on Bull Rush if you can frequently Shield Slam opponents into an immovable object.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Here are some additional bludgeoning weapons worthy of notice:
Cestus is a good backup weapon. I'm not seeing the point of the sap (as you can take enemies alive by healing them after defeat, or by casting Frostbite). Note that the skirnir's shielded spell combat negates the shield's AC bonus unless it's a buckler. Overall I've found that enemies with DR/bludgeon are sufficiently rare that such a weapon is not a necessity for the Magus.
Looking at the Cleave-series and Whirlwind Attack feats, I can see why these are not in the guide -- their action economy characteristics are not friendly to Spell Combat. Any workarounds for this?
I've found these to be rather poor feats even if you're not a Magus, due to how rarely Cleave applies, and due to the unfortunate prereqs on Whirlwind. When facing a horde of foes, you can always cast Flurry of Snowballs and/or Fireball. It's pretty rare that a whirlwind will net you more attacks than haste + spell combat.
Great guide! Two questions:
1. Have you considered Cosmic Ray? While the risk of sickening yourself is certainly a drawback, it's notable in that it deals (a) untyped damage with (b) a high cap that (c) isn't halved on a successful save.
2. How about Sense Vitals as a spell blending option? I seem to remember it from an earlier version of the guide, and wonder why it might've been removed: since Magi have a lot of convenient ways of enabling sneak attacks, I'd have thought it'd have been a great spell for them.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Is the magus-like Phantom Blade Spiritualist going to get a mention? Black blade, spell combat and spellstrike are in common.
Yes, it is. I find the PB is effectively a Magus archetype, considering it trades away literally every spiritualist class feature. Overall it looks pretty good, the main issue is that the spir's spell list is not as good as the Magus's.
Great guide! Two questions:
Cosmic Ray is a good find, I'll go add that. Actually, it's so good it made me downrate Disintegrate.
Sense Vitals I did some math on, and found it is less damaging overall than Frostbite (which is why I'd removed it). Also, casting FB gives you a free attack whereas casting SV doesn't.Lock Gaze, from Ultimate Combat.
I find it compares unfavorably to Color Spray and Mudball. Also I would like to see some actual numbers on how "tanky" your build is (does that mean high AC? If so, how high?)
Shield of Shards, from the Armor Master's Handbook. Normally a Magus wouldn't have a shield,
I'm not seeing the point of this spell for a skirnir, because it negates the benefit of playing a skirnir in the first place. As written, you cannot spellstrike through the shards (because spellstrike requires a weapon you're wielding, which the shards aren't). Furthermore, the spell costs a move action each turn, which is a pretty bad deal for any melee character.
Prestige classes
Note that the guide suggests a one- or two-level dip into stargazer, not taking the full progression. The problem with evangelist is that the benefits just aren't that impressive, and arguably not worth delaying your main-class progression for. Unless there's a hidden gem here that I'm missing.
If you mainly use spells that provide multiple charges per casting (such as Chill Touch and Frostbite), Fencing Grace and Slashing Grace aren't totally useless, since once you get past the first few levels you won't be able to use up all the charges in 1 or even 2 rounds
Once you're that high level, you should have plenty of first level slots. Turn one, cast frostbite and make four attacks. Turn two, make three more attacks then cast another spell. Repeat as necessary. If you want dex to damage with that, you'd want something that applies all the time (not one turn out of two) meaning Scimitar Dance or an Agile Weapon, basically.
You can use the dorn dergar as a 1H reach weapon for two feats, if you're a dexterity-based dwarf. There are other 1H reach weapons that require less feats though.
good on Bull Rush if you can frequently Shield Slam opponents into an immovable object.
Wouldn't it be easier to just trip them, then? It has the same result (they're prone now) and doesn't require several feats, an off-list spell, and an immediate action.
Just a small bit of news... I missed this when it happened, but PFS did issue a clarification on the Kapenia Dancer Archetype like I requested.
Varisia, Birthplace of Legends
Page 10—Replace the last sentence of the kapenia dancer's weapon and armor proficiency with the following. "A kapenia dancer is not proficent with armor or shields. He does not have the magus's ability to ignore arcane spell failure from armor; however, if he becomes proficient in light armor, he automatically gains the magus's ability to ignore the arcane spell failure chance from light armor. If he becomes proficient in medium armor, at 7th level he ignores medium armor's chance of arcane spell failure. If he becomes proficient in heavy armor, at 13th level he ignores heavy armor's chance of arcane spell failure. This replaces the magus's normal armor proficiencies, including those gained at 7th and 13th level."Not a huge boost to the base archetype, as it does not grant anything without proficiency. But since I'd already dipped Occultist, it'll help my build quite a bit. I'll be able to pick up +1 mitral medium armor next level and get a 2-3 point AC boost over using mage armor, while still being able to use Canny Defense.
I'm not sure if this merits inclusion in the guide or not, since for now it's PFS only. Their clarification on the Sword Saint Samurai Archetype did eventually make it into the Golarion FAQ, though, so this might, too.
That's actually pretty cool that they made this clarification.
I'm not sure if this merits inclusion in the guide or not, since for now it's PFS only. Their clarification on the Sword Saint Samurai Archetype did eventually make it into the Golarion FAQ, though, so this might, too.Thanks. I think I'll wait until this makes it to the FAQ or errata.
Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever get an errata, since it's from a soft-cover, and once printed, they are sort of abandoned by the powers that be. A FAQ would be nice, but sadly, even there it's unlikely, as it's a very low visibility archetype. The PFS note is about as good as it'll get, so maybe a note about it in the guide?
Sense Vitals I did some math on, and found it is less damaging overall than Frostbite (which is why I'd removed it). Also, casting FB gives you a free attack whereas casting SV doesn't.
Ah, I see! In most cases, it probably is. Still, Frostbite as I interpret it doesn't stack with other touch spells--you stop holding the charge when you cast one--and Sense Vitals does have the advantage of working against targets with cold resistance or immunity to nonlethal damage. (That said, on reflection these may be too situational to merit blowing a Spell Blending slot on it. So I take your point.)
Also, it may be worth noting that humans, half-elves, and (with the right alternate racial features) aasimar and tieflings can all get the gnome arcane pool options via Racial Heritage. In my view bladebound or mindblade magi should seriously consider this, since the default arcane pool options can get pretty lackluster at high levels; this is especially true for bladebound hexcrafters, who could not otherwise get conductive.
Is the magus-like Phantom Blade Spiritualist going to get a mention? Black blade, spell combat and spellstrike are in common.Yes, it is. I find the PB is effectively a Magus archetype, considering it trades away literally every spiritualist class feature.
It actually keeps four SLAs, See Invisibility and some spirit related ones. It would even stack with Fractured Mind if you had an emotional focus. ("I have formed my hatred into a sword to strike down my enemies!")
{. . .}
Lock Gaze, from Ultimate Combat.I find it compares unfavorably to Color Spray and Mudball. Also I would like to see some actual numbers on how "tanky" your build is (does that mean high AC? If so, how high?)
Color Spray is better at low levels, but gets worse at higher levels, as pretty soon most of the things you encounter will only suffer from it for 1 round even if they fail their Save. Lock Gaze gets better at higher levels as it lasts 1 round/level, until you get to the point where everything passes their Save (which would be the same point for Color Spray).
I'll give you that Mudball has the advantage of not allowing Spell Resistance, although it allows a Reflex Save each round to get rid of it, or a guaranteed-to-work Standard Action to get rid of it without further punishment, whereas at least Lock Gaze punishes a target with Blinded for 1 round if they fail their Save and then try to break it. Which one of these spells is better is going to depend upon the enemy (good Reflex Save and bad Will Save means Lock Gaze is better; good Will Save and bad Reflex Save means Mudball is better).
I'll have to run actual armor class numbers later (when it isn't almost 04:00 in the morning), but the general idea is that being a Dwarf with a high Constitution and decent Dexterity and possible Toughness (from optionally taking Unstoppable instead of Hardy) and a shield is going to be harder to kill than someone who doesn't have these characteristics, even if the shield is sometimes taking a break to do something other than protect you.
Shield of Shards, from the Armor Master's Handbook. Normally a Magus wouldn't have a shield,I'm not seeing the point of this spell for a skirnir, because it negates the benefit of playing a skirnir in the first place. As written, you cannot spellstrike through the shards (because spellstrike requires a weapon you're wielding, which the shards aren't). Furthermore, the spell costs a move action each turn, which is a pretty bad deal for any melee character.
The Move action cost will make it bad later on, when you start getting iterative attacks, but before that, you get only 1 normal attack anyway unless you use Two-Weapon Fighting. If you are up against an enemy with really high armor class, Shield of Shards, which keys off your Caster Level instead of your Base Attack Bonus, will be more likely to hit unless your primary attack roll modifier is enough higher than your primary spellcasting modifier to make up the difference.
Prestige classesNote that the guide suggests a one- or two-level dip into stargazer, not taking the full progression. The problem with evangelist is that the benefits just aren't that impressive, and arguably not worth delaying your main-class progression for. Unless there's a hidden gem here that I'm missing.
It depends upon which deity you are tied to, and the campaign. Deific Obedience Guide.
If you mainly use spells that provide multiple charges per casting (such as Chill Touch and Frostbite), Fencing Grace and Slashing Grace aren't totally useless, since once you get past the first few levels you won't be able to use up all the charges in 1 or even 2 rounds.Once you're that high level, you should have plenty of first level slots. Turn one, cast frostbite and make four attacks. Turn two, make three more attacks then cast another spell. Repeat as necessary. If you want dex to damage with that, you'd want something that applies all the time (not one turn out of two) meaning Scimitar Dance or an Agile Weapon, basically.
You can use the dorn dergar as a 1H reach weapon for two feats, if you're a dexterity-based dwarf. There are other 1H reach weapons that require less feats though.
You wouldn't want to use the Dorn-Dergar if you are Dexterity-based, since it isn't Finessable even with weird feats or class features -- I was recommending this for somebody who has good Dexterity but at least as good (or preferably even better) Strength.
Nevertheless, potentially better plan here.
good on Bull Rush if you can frequently Shield Slam opponents into an immovable object.Wouldn't it be easier to just trip them, then? It has the same result (they're prone now) and doesn't require several feats, an off-list spell, and an immediate action.
If you were a Fighter, yes. But making Trip (independent of collisions induced by Shield Slam) good on a Bull Rush build requires another feat chain. Also, Staggering Fall does make the victim Staggered for 1 round/level, which is a nice bonus, although it does allow a Save to get rid of it each round (you are eventually going to want Persistent Spell, not only for this spell but also for other staple low-level spells). Although now that I read it again, I see that this spell description has an error in it with respect to the Saving Throw.
Yes, it is. I find the PB is effectively a Magus archetype, considering it trades away literally every spiritualist class feature. Overall it looks pretty good, the main issue is that the spir's spell list is not as good as the Magus's.
Are you going to talk about the ectoplasmatist while you're there? And perhaps discuss why they felt the need to make two spiritualist archetypes that pretend to be a magus?
Still, Frostbite as I interpret it doesn't stack with other touch spells--you stop holding the charge when you cast one--and Sense Vitals does have the advantage of working against targets with cold resistance or immunity to nonlethal damage.
There's a developer statement about Chill Touch (which has the same mechanics as Frostbite) stating that it does stack:
[LINK=http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=513?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#25604]
but the FAQ here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r42
says otherwise, and is a more authoritative source.
(I didn't notice the FAQ on this until about 10 sessions in, so it works in my game)
If you're not an eldritch scion magus and you have some charisma anyway then getting Desna's second boon 5 levels early might be worth the level lost to evangelist. It adds cha to concentration and vs. SR, as well as adding 2d6 damage to a damaging spell cast in starlight.
Rovagug's second boon may not work with spell combat but it'd be great when you're casting fireball or something. +4 save DC and treat 1's rolled on damage as 2's.
I was checking the Builds section of the guide in preparation for attempting to run a numeric comparison on hit points and armor class, and noticed a couple of places where the builds have mistekes:
Grashnak Stormbringer, Assault Magus
In this build Spell Blending is listed as a feat at level 13, instead of as a Magus Arcana -- Extra Magus Arcana (Spell Blending) is valid, but this format is not consistent with the other levels of this build that get Extra Magus Arcana.
Ilyara Bladesong, Maneuver Magus
At level 11, you get both Dimensional Agility and Destructive Dispel, but 1 of the level 17 feats is a Magus Bonus Feat and therefore must be a Combat, Item Creation, or Metamagic feat, and both of these feats are General. Suggested remedy: Pick something other than Destructive Dispel -- maybe Monkey Lunge (see note below) should go in here.
At level 17, you get both Divine Defiance and Extra Arcana, but 1 of the level 17 feats is a Magus Bonus Feat and therefore must be a Combat, Item Creation, or Metamagic feat, and both of these feats are General. Suggested remedy: Pick something other than Divine Defiance and/or replace Extra Arcana (Quickened Magic) with the more expensive but (at this high level) more frequently usable Metamagic Feat Quicken Spell (arguably, even get both Quicken Spell and Quickened Magic, the former to use with lower level spells such as Ill Omen, and the latter to use on spells that are too high level for you to use Quicken Spell on).
Also, a couple of odd choices:
Amazing Dexterity on a Maneuver Magus, and no Combat Reflexes? (And in the Feats section, Combat Reflexes should really get better than an Orange rating.) Even on a Strength build with decent Dexterity, I'd rather have Combat Reflexes than the Flight Hex -- the Flight Hex is very nice to have, but you can cast Fly or Overland Flight, so it's not essential.
What is the Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone for when you are already proficient in all the weapons you have and you don't have a Wayfinder to put it in to get the benefit of Weapon Focus?
Note that when performing Combat Maneuvers, you'll be provoking Attacks of Opportunity for not having the Improved Combat Maneuver feats; although Daze, Long Arm, Mirror Image, and eventually Lunge can mitigate this, they won't always be enough, so you might want to add Monkey Lunge (which currently isn't in the guide) to get rid of the AC penalty of Lunge, or get a Wand of False Life to stack some Temporary Hit Points on top of your more highly recommended hit point increasing measures. (Alternatively, since both False Life and Staggering Fall are 2nd level, and the latter is useful for making a successful Trip hurt a lot more, Spell Blend them both in when you hit level 7.)
The Tactis sub-section of this build is a good instruction on how to be a Combat Maneuver performer without the hefty feat taxation that is each Improved/Greater Combat Maneuver feat chain (and its prerequisite that you usually don't want). I even went back to see if I could profitably redo Blood Conduit Bloodrager/Blade Adept Arcanist VMC Magus build using this as a guide (unfortunately, you can only choose Maneuver Mastery on the Magus Arcana granted by VMC Magus, not those granted by Blade Adept Arcanist Exploits).
Chryn Flamestaff, Controller Magus
You get Spontaneous Metafocus (Fireball) at level 5, but to take Spontaneous Metafocus on a spell, you have to be able to cast it, and a 5th level Magus can't cast Fireball yet. If you interchange this with Greater Spell Focus (Evocation), it should be fine.
Also, at level 17, you get both Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration, but 1 of the level 17 feats is a Magus Bonus Feat and therefore must be a Combat, Item Creation, or Metamagic feat, and both of these feats are General.
Also, not an error, but an odd choice -- instead of Maximize Spell at level 11 (when you will only be able to use it on 1st level spells and Cantrips unless you have a Metamagic cost reducing ability), on somebody who is supposed to be a controller, I'd rather see Persistent Spell and eventually Dazing Spell; maybe even replace Intensified Spell(*) (at level 9) with Persistent Spell and Maximize Spell (at level 11) with Dazing Spell.
(*)Everybody seems to refer to this as Intensify Spell, but technically Intensify Spell is a 3rd party feat that is different from Paizo's Intensified Spell, although this distinction of terms breaks down when you apply the adjective to the spell name (they both become "Intensified"). (Note that both were published in 2010.)
Other Stuff
For build comparisons, I am wondering whether I should bother grinding out everything with the Wealth by Level table (a real pain), or just do the build mostly not listing items and assume that items are mostly going to do the same for both, except making notes of a few items that are going to affect the compared builds differently.
By the way, do you have any plans to do a Bloodrager guide?
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Monkey Lunge
Am I missing something? That feat seems terrible (and by terrible I mean worse than useless). Maybe they meant swift action?
(APPARENTLY I'M NOT THE FIRST TO THINK THIS.)
Also I think you're underestimating how good the Flight Hex is. That's probably more a personal taste thing there though, so we can agree to disagree here.
^You're right about Monkey Lunge -- I read the action type wrong; it needs an Errata to be usable.
Don't get me wrong about the Flight Hex -- it's good, just not indispensable. On the other hand, if you are in an aquatic campaign, then it gets hard to match (+4 on Swim checks isn't so easy to get).
I worked to anyone on the correct build of puppetmaster, please
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Also, it may be worth noting that humans, half-elves, and (with the right alternate racial features) aasimar and tieflings can all get the gnome arcane pool options via Racial Heritage.
That's a good point, I'll add that.
Are you going to talk about the ectoplasmatist while you're there? And perhaps discuss why they felt the need to make two spiritualist archetypes that pretend to be a magus?
Yes, I'll cover the ecto too. I'm not bothered by the devs making more classes that resemble the Magus :)
If you're not an eldritch scion magus and you have some charisma anyway then getting Desna's second boon 5 levels early might be worth the level lost to evangelist.
Yeah, but if you're not an eldritch scion then you're unlikely to have a charisma score over 12.
Color Spray is better at low levels, but gets worse at higher levels, as pretty soon most of the things you encounter will only suffer from it for 1 round even if they fail their Save. Lock Gaze gets better at higher levels as it lasts 1 round/level, until you get to the point where everything passes their Save (which would be the same point for Color Spray).
Yes, but the important differences are that Color Spray has a nastier effect, and affects an area. I mean, Lock Gaze is not bad or anything, but the point of the guide is not to list every single spell.
The Move action cost will make it bad later on, when you start getting iterative attacks, but before that, you get only 1 normal attack anyway unless you use Two-Weapon Fighting.
If you take TWF, you probably intend to use it as often as possible. Same goes for spell combat.
Thanks for the proofread, I'll fix those later this week.
Color Spray has a nastier effect at low levels, but for practical purposes it quits having a nastier effect at high levels (Heavens Oracle with the Awesome Display Revelation is the only way I know to mitigate that, and that isn't even one of the ones you can take with VMC Oracle). The exception would be if the higher level enemies like to be accompanied by quasi-Swarms of low-level creatures -- in that case, you Color Spray the quasi-Swarm, and then Lock Gaze on one of the enemy brutes that is still standing.
Yes, if you take Two-Weapon Fighting, you want to be using it often, but not necessarily all the time. The most common exception would be when you are up against something with REALLY HIGH Armor Class, which is also the situation in which Shield of Shards keying off your caster level instead of your Base Attack Bonus is also of most use.
I should also add about the guide where you list VMC Fighter as an easier way to get Armor Training and Weapon Training on a Magus than Myrmidarch: This is true for a long campaign and if you need a lot of Magus Arcana but not very many feats, but not true for PFS or campaigns that end at mid levels. PFS doesn't let you use VMC, but even if it did, it quits after level 11 (unless you have some kind of boon that lets you go further), which means that you just get 1 whole level to enjoy Weapon Training with VMC Fighter, whereas Myrmidarch Magus gets Weapon Training at level 6 (and gets Armor Training just 1 level later than VMC Fighter, at level 8 instead of 7). Although Myrmidarch trades out 3 Magus Arcana for Weapon Training, only the first of these (at level 6) is relevant to PFS unless you have some kind of boon that gives you extended play.
Color Spray has a nastier effect at low levels, but for practical purposes it quits having a nastier effect at high levels (Heavens Oracle with the Awesome Display Revelation is the only way I know to mitigate that, and that isn't even one of the ones you can take with VMC Oracle).
Not really relevant to a magus, but FYI Mesmerists get a similar if weaker effect at 5th level named Mental Potency.
Wonder if we'll ever get a Magus-Mesmerist hybrid archetype or class, or a VMC Mesmerist. On the other hand, you can already go Mesmerist VMC Magus, and Mesmerists have Color Spray on their spell list. I haven't tried to figure out a Mesmerist build, though, so I don't yet have a good feel for how feat-starved this would be.
Wonder if we'll ever get a Magus-Mesmerist hybrid archetype or class, or a VMC Mesmerist. On the other hand, you can already go Mesmerist VMC Magus, and Mesmerists have Color Spray on their spell list. I haven't tried to figure out a Mesmerist build, though, so I don't yet have a good feel for how feat-starved this would be.
Puppetmaster, no?
^More of a Magus-Bard hybrid, but if you apply what was done there to Magus-Mesmerist, you'd get what I am talking about.
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Added arcane shield, redirect attack, and disruptive recall feats; trap finder trait; cosmic ray, telekinetic strikes, good hope, and debilitating pain spells; ectoplasmatist (it's a trap!) and phantom blade (good but not great) archetypes; souleater prestige class.
Are you going to talk about the ectoplasmatist while you're there? And perhaps discuss why they felt the need to make two spiritualist archetypes that pretend to be a magus?
Well, I don't know the exact reasons, but looking over both archetypes it strikes me that the ectoplasmatist is really bad (it trades out all of the spiritualist abilities for not a lot of Magus abilities) and so the phantom blade is an attempt to do it better (and it succeeds at that pretty well).
Replaced Ilyara's destructive dispel with combat reflexes, divine defiance and deadly stab with artful dodge and redirect attack. The ioun stone should be a blue sphere. I don't see combat reflexes as particularly valuable unless you're a dex-based Magus with a reach weapon, and that's a pretty unlikely combo. And yes, the point of the build is to have various ways to use maneuvers without incurring OAs (and when you can't, you can always attack for damage instead).
Swapped Chryn's metafocus with g.spell focus; max spell with dazing spell; and g.spell penetration with imp.init. Thanks for the proofread!
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For build comparisons, I am wondering whether I should bother grinding out everything with the Wealth by Level table (a real pain),
In my experience, very few people come to a guide to directly copy a build. Rather, they are looking for suggestions to add to a build they already have, or that they have in mind. This is also why I sort everything by category, so that a player looking for (e.g.) offensive items can find them easily.
Grinding everything out strikes me as a lot of work that won't actually benefit your readers much. $.02
By the way, do you have any plans to do a Bloodrager guide?
Given my busy schedule I do not currently have time to write or maintain a second guide. If and when that changes, bloodrager would probably not be my first choice for that, either.
^Okay, you've got me curious: What would be your first choice?
Okay, looking up what's on the Zenith Games Comprehensive Pathfinder Guides Guide by class:
Alchemist: Couple of pretty good guides
Arcanist: Couple of pretty good guides
Antipaladin/Paladin: At least one pretty good guide, but getting kind of out of date
Barbarian: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date unless at least one of them got a stealth update recently (nothing even seems to cover Barbarian Unchained)
Bard: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date unless at least one of them got a stealth update recently
Bloodrager: One decent guide, but getting rather out of date
Brawler: At least one pretty good guide, but getting kind of out of date
Cavalier: At least one decent guide, but getting rather out of date
Cleric: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date unless at least one of them got a stealth update recently, with the exception of the Elder Mythos Cultist archetype-specific guide
Druid: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date unless at least one of them got a stealth update recently
Fighter: Surprisingly, has more than one good fairly up-to-date general guide as well as a decent build-specific guide of recent vintage -- apparently the Weapon Master's Guide and associated publications with Fighter material stimulated a proliferation of thought and innovation
Gunslinger: At least one pretty good guide, but getting kind of out of date
Hunter: At least one decent guide, but getting kind of out of date
Inquisitor: These were good, but they are all way out of date
Investigator: Some good guides, but getting kind of out of date
Kineticist: Pretty good guide
Magus (general): Really good guide known to be updated extremely recently
Magus (Hexcrafter-specific): Good guide even though out of date
Magus (Kensai-specific): Good guide even though out of date
Magus (Myrmidarch-specific): Was decent when it came out, but WAY out of date -- need one done from scratch using the new material that has come out that has made this much better, starting with the Weapon Master's Handbook
Medium: Decent guide, but getting kind of out of date
Mesmerist: Needs a more comprehensive and up-to-date guide
Monk (classic): At least two good and fairly up-to-date guides
Monk (unchained): Good and fairly up-to-date guide
Ninja: At least one good guide
Occultist: At least two good guides
Oracle: Good guide, but getting kind of out of date; also needs a Spirit Guide Oracle archetype specific guide
Paladin: See Antipaladin/Paladin
Psychic: At least one good guide
Ranger: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date
Rogue: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date (only 1 miniguide even covers Rogue Unchained)
Samurai: At least one of these was good, but it is way out of date
Shaman: Needs a more comprehensive and up-to-date guide
Skald: Guide was decent when it came out, but rather out of date
Slayer: Needs a more comprehensive and up-to-date guide
Sorcerer: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date
Spiritualist: Good guides, but getting rather out of date
Summoner: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date (only 1 miniguide even covers Summoner Unchained)
Swashbuckler: Needs a more comprehensive and up-to-date guide
Vigilante: Guides were good as far as they go, but the archetypes are so different that each really needs its own guide if it is usable at all (I'm NOT looking at you, Brute) -- Warlock has one, but the others don't
Warpriest: Good guide, but getting rather out of date
Witch: At least one of these was good, but it is way out of date
Wizard: Some of these were good, but they are all way out of date
So looks like Hunter is sort of open and Mesmerist is definitely open, as are several other classes. And that's not even counting prestige classes.
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Okay, looking up what's on the Zenith Games Comprehensive Pathfinder Guides Guide by class:
Yeah, we should really ask Zenith to sort his guides by when they were last updated, and/or give a gray color to anything not updated in the last year.
Is the magus-like Phantom Blade Spiritualist going to get a mention? Black blade, spell combat and spellstrike are in common.Yes, it is. I find the PB is effectively a Magus archetype, considering it trades away literally every spiritualist class feature. Overall it looks pretty good, the main issue is that the spir's spell list is not as good as the Magus's.
One issue I found while adding the magus VMC to Phantom Blade.
The arcana Spell Blending only works for an actual magus. It will not add spells known to another classes spell list. It is a shame - Phantom Blade has no touch cantrips, limiting their ability to spam, especially at low level.
Not qualifying for Arcane Strike is a hit to DPR.
Bonus: the Phantom Blade counts full class level as both BAB and fighter level for feat prereqs.