Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus


Advice

151 to 200 of 1,651 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yet another thought on dipping Gunslinger and going Myrmidarch Magus as I posted recently (actually towards the end of the previous page]: If you are actually going to make Ranged Spellstrike useful by using Deadeye Deed, it becomes attractive to invest in Reach Spellstrike and then Distant Spellstrike (these can'take use your 7th level feat even by way of Extra Magus Arcana because they require Magus levels 9 and 12, respectively). I was going to say Rapid Reload becomes attractive for the 7th level feat, but even with this feat you still need a Standard Action for a two-handed firearm unless you manage to get something that synergizes with it (for instance, advanced firearms -- Iron Gods, maybe?), so you are probably better off just golf-bagging a few firearms, particularly double-barreled muskets. You are still going to need either Extra Grit or Weapon Finesse, anyway.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kurald Galain wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
If something alters the parent class you can't take an archetype that removes of of the sub-features. Altering the parent class can be as small as adding an option to the available list.

We've already covered that. The FAQ talks about class features that grant multiple subfeatures, such as bardic performance (which has central rules for how to perform, and subfeatures like countersong, inspire courage, and so forth). It is my understanding that Magus arcana is not a feature with multiple subfeatures, and by that reading, Hexcrafter and Black Blade can still be combined.

Searching the Paizo forums suggests that this is, indeed, the most common interpretation, and that HC/BB hybrids are generally accepted.

subfeatures is anything that has multiple instances. Bardic performance, weapon training, favored enemy and sneak attack. (sneak attack and favored enemy are told to be subfeatures because you can trade out 1 instance.)

And like Gisher said, if they aren't subfeatures then it still doesn't matter, it's just more limiting. If it's one feature "magus arcana", then removing one would alter that sole feature and not stack with anything that removed, added or altered "magus arcana".

There's no way, per the FAQ or per the Default instructions on stacking archetypes, that they can stack.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Magog wrote:
I think it's worth noting that the Mindblade's weapons are supernatural abilities and as such would ignore damage reduction. At least I'm fairly certain that's how that works, feel free to prove me wrong.

What Pseudonym said. While creating the weapon is (su), the ability states that "a psychic weapon counts as a magic weapon". Therefore it ignores DR/magic, but not all kinds of DR.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
But before I answer your question, first I need to post a debugged version of the switch-hitter Myrmidarch build I originally posted here :

I'm finding it a bit problematic that your build doesn't have Point-Blank or Precise Shot. I'd expect you to commonly take -8 to hit on your ranged attacks.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Additional thought on the variant of the above that uses a Gunslinger dip: If you use a two-handed firearm to get longer range,

However, it should be possible with spellstrike (but not spell combat) to hold the gun in one hand to cast, then hold it in two hands to fire. After all, you can also cast a touch spell, then walk up to somebody, then make the touch attack all in the same round.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Yet another thought on dipping Gunslinger and going Myrmidarch Magus as I posted recently (actually towards the end of the previous page]: If you are actually going to make Ranged Spellstrike useful by using Deadeye Deed, it becomes attractive to invest in Reach Spellstrike and then Distant Spellstrike (these can'take use your 7th level feat even by way of Extra Magus Arcana because they require Magus levels 9 and 12, respectively).

Basically, you need the Reach Spellstrike arcana (to use melee touch spells at range) before ranged spellstrike becomes worthwhile. That goes for both the myrm and the eldritch archer.


^Precise Shot is required if you are primarily doing ranged attacks, but merely nice to have if you are switch-hitting. If your preferred tactics for dealing with enemies in levee range of your friends is to get into melee yourself, it becomes less critical -- save your ranged attacks for when the enemy won't close.

Good point about the Ranged Spellstrike and two-handed shooting.

For Reach Spellstrike and Distant Spellstrike, this is true, that you really want these, but while you are waiting to become high enough level to use them, you could get a bit of use out of Ranged Spellstrike already: If you cast a spell that is already Ranged Touch through your firearm's ranged touch attack (close range or Deadeye Deed), you break even on your chance to hit and get ahead by doing damage or a ^Precise Shot is required if you are primarily doing ranged attacks, but merely nice to have if you are switch-hitting. If your preferred tactics for dealing with enemies in levee range of your friends is to get into melee yourself, it becomes less critical -- save your ranged attacks for when the enemy won't close.

Good point about the Ranged Spellstrike and two-handed shooting.

For Reach Spellstrike and Distant Spellstrike, this is true, that you really want these, but while you are waiting to become high enough level to use them, you could get a bit of use out of Ranged Spellstrike already: If you cast a spell that is already Ranged Touch through your firearm's ranged touch attack (close range or Deadeye Deed), you break even on your chance to hit and get ahead by doing damage or a Ranged Trip (eventually Ace Trip) at the same time as the spell effect, except that if you fired through an enchanted firearm, then you also come out ahead on your Ranged Touch attack roll relative to casting the spell on its own.

* * * * * * * *

While I'm at it, Here are 2 other 1 level dips that could synergize with Myrmidarch Magus -- not as well as Gunslinger, but might be useful if you can't get vanilla Gunslinger:

1. Bolt Ace Gunslinger: You use the Sharp Shoot Deed to convert a crossbow attack 8nto a Ranged Touch attack. Unfortunately, this only works for the first range increment, but fortunately, most crossbows have a big range increment. Some GMs who ban firearms still allow Bolt Ace Gunslinger.

2. Similar to Bolt Ace Gunslinger but using a bow instead, Hooded Champion Ranger uses the Dead Aim Deed for this purpose. A disadvantage is that it uses Panache, which depends upon Charisma, which you have to !dump hard unless you have really high point buy. You could even dip 2 levels of this to get the Combat Style feat (choose Precise Shot), but a delay of 2 levels of spellcasting progression really hurts on top of Diminished Spellcasting, and then Magical Knack becomes a necessity.


^Add to the above:

3. Techslinger (Gunslinger archetype). Although this trades out the Deadeye Deed, if you can get your hands on advanced technological (or modern) firearms, your first range increment is long enough that you may be able to make do without this Deed, and the Covet Charge and occasionally Reliable Deeds will be good to have with advanced technology weapons. In this case, try to rearrange ability scores for more Dexterity + Wisdom, but instead of picking up Weapon Finesse, get Skill Focus (Knowledge (Engineering)) (actually use the Human alternate racial trait Focused Study for this, or be a Half-Elf) and squeeze in Technologist (this will require bumping some of the upper level feats back (because this consumes 2 feats, including your wildcard feat from character level 7). Normally, this would not be optimal, but it might be just the thing for Iron Gods.

4. Siege Gunner Gunslinger. As noted above, if you can get your hands on modern firearms, the range increment is long enough that you might be able to make do without the Deadeye Deed. In this case, this archetype becomes attractive (even though I said don't do it in a previous post) for making your Grit Intelligence-based. This frees up your wildcard feat for something other than Extra Grit. The only AP I can think of that has modern firearms is Reign of Winter, but this comes too late in the AP for this to be of much use. If you are in a custom campaign on Earth, though, this option might be for you.

Unfortunately, I don't think any feat exists to get back a traded-out Gunslinger Deed, even though several feats exist to gain additional Deeds. Amateur Gunslinger would let you pick up Deadeye if you had no Gunslinger dip, but then not only is this an extra feat, but you would also have to spend a feat (or dip in some firearm-using martial archetype of some other class that doesn't grant Grit) to get firearm proficiency.


Another possible feat for that 7th level Wildcard Feat: Fury's Fall -- you have both Dexterity and Strength bonuses in the build I posted above, so might as well get use of both!

And something you're going to want later, if you can get the rest of your party to invest in Teamwork Feats: Harder They Fall -- lets you trip Huge and larger creatures when your teammates Aid Another for you (or lets you Aid Another to them). Unfortunately, since this requires Aid Another, it won't work with Advanced Weapon Training (Fighter's Tactics), or for that matter even with Inquisitor's Solo Tactics, unless you can figure out a way to clone yourself, because Aid Another really needs to come from somebody else (barring that, I don't think you can Aid Another to yourself, even with class features equivalent to Solo Tactics).

Nothing in either feat description appears to exclude using them with Ranged Trip or Ace Trip.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Added draconic heritage chromatic feat (give a decent boost to damage whenever you have a swift action to spare), balanced termination (good defensive trait) from Legacy of Dragons.

Added new gnome FCB (gain illusion spells, but most of the good illusion spells are already on the Magus class list); decapitate (no-kill-like-overkill death spell), horrific doubles (mirror image that causes fear), rigor mortis (uncapped damage spell), and waves of blood (area effect pushback spell) from Horror Adventures.

So we're up-to-date with the latest books again. If I've missed something particularly Magus-worthy, please let me know.


Errata to my previous post: Actually, for Harder They Fall, you just have to get your teammates to Aid Another for you, not to take the feat, if you have Advanced Weapon Training (Fighter's Tactics).

* * * * * * * *

You can see I'm angling towards the kernel of a Myrmidarch Guide, although I'd like to have input from somebody who has had a chance to playtest this stuff (WITH the recent material referenced).

* * * * * * * *

Looks like enough new stuff has been added to Frankincense, Myrrh, and Steel that I need to do another pass through it.


Okay, I finally got a chance to read through again:

In the Archetypes seciton, the "6" in the Myrmidarch Magus entry for the level at which you get your first rank of Weapon Training is still upside down.

Feats section: The feat Martial Focus qualifies you for feats that would otherwise require Weapon Training, but it doesn't qualify you for Advanced Weapon Training options.

In the Spells section, Burning Hands should get rated Green -- Swarms can be really nasty if you don't have a way to burn them up, and Alchemist's Fire might not have enough punch against the tougher Swarms (and if they're immune to fire, Alchemist's Fire won't work against them anyway). Alter Self should also get a Green rating -- you can use it to get Darkvision (and Low Light Vision), Scent, and Swim 30 feet, any of which could be very useful in the right situation. More specialized spells exist for each of these, but this potentially puts them all in one convenient package, and is lower level than (for instance) the Darkvision spell, although the duration on Alter Self is less. Cone of Cold should be conditionally bumped up to Green if you already have Rime Spell (or a Metamagic Rod thereof) for some other reason -- even though the damage isn't any better than Fireball, and the range is worse, Fireball can't normally be used with Rime Spell.

In the Spells From Other Lists section, why is Hexcrafter archetype an Orange way to gain spells? Also need to add the Eldritch Scion archetype, which gives you a limited number of bonus spells -- although it does so late, and usually only some of them are not already on your list, so this should be Orange at best.

For Selection of Spells to go with the above, wouldn't use of Touch of Fatigue with Spell Combat/Spellstrike require the Broad Study Magus Arcana? (This is also referenced in an earlier section.) For Second Level Spells, also add Staggering Fall -- should be Blue if you are a Maneuver Magus focusing on Trip.

For Equipment: Ranged Weapons: Add Firearms. Normally not so good, but if you have Ranged Spellstrike, these bump up to Green for being versus Touch AC within their first ranged increment, or up to Blue if you can get a way to extend their Touch AC to further range increments (such as a dip into Gunslinger).

In Dipping Other Classes, you can cast spells while raging if you get Mad Magic; if your dip is into Bloodrager, this costs only 1 feat (Mad Magic itself). Also add Gunslinger as a conditionally Green or Blue dip class (see above for note about Ranged Spell Combat). Certain archetypes of other classes can do something similar (for example: Hooded Champion Ranger).

Variant Multiclassing: VMC Witch is just bad (extremely delayed and limited scaling of Hexes), and should be rated Red (really, just be a Hexcrafter Magus instead). On the other hand, VMC Fighter is conditionally Green, for a Mindblade Magus, for whom Bravery is actually quite useful; for everybody else, use Myrmidarch Magus instead, unless your campaign is going to really high levels.

Variant Multiclassing: Conditionally very good. For instance, think of a Rogue with the Prescient Attack Magus Arcana (to set up Sneak Attack) and later Major Magic (Chill Touch or Frostbite) to actually get decent use out of Spellstrike. Another example: a very specific build to make Blade Adept Arcanist good. A cautionary note: VMC Magus gives you effective Magus levels for qualifying for Magus Arcana, but not for determining their effect -- usually this doesn't matter, but it normally kills use of level-dependent Magus Arcana such as Maneuver Mastery (in the build just linked, Blade Adept Arcanist gives effective Magus levels for the effect of Magus Arcana, but normally does not give access to Maneuver Mastery, so combine the two, and you can actually use this Magus Arcana).

Builds: Chryn Flamestaff has an incorrect recommendation: Staff Magi are only proficient with Simple weapons, so Scimitar won't work unless you get the proficiency from somewhere else. Also, with Intelligence 8, you won't be able to max 3 skills, even as Human, unless you send your Favored Class Bonus to skill points. Also, you probably want Headband of Charisma to improve spellcasting.


UnArcaneElection wrote:


In the Spells section, Burning Hands should get rated Green -- Swarms can be really nasty if you don't have a way to burn them up, and Alchemist's Fire might not have enough punch against the tougher Swarms (and if they're immune to fire, Alchemist's Fire won't work against them anyway).

Um....


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
In the Spells section, Burning Hands should get rated Green -- Swarms can be really nasty if you don't have a way to burn them up, and Alchemist's Fire might not have enough punch against the tougher Swarms (and if they're immune to fire, Alchemist's Fire won't work against them anyway).
Um....

You could Elemental-Spell it in a situation like that, no?


Yes, you could use Elemental Spell (or a Metamagic Rod thereof) with Burning Hands. You can't do this with Alchemist's Fire, although carrying around a flask of Acid might not be a bad idea (although I have this vision of a flask of Acid breaking in my backpack and doing worse than what the Alchemist's Fire would have done, Rules As Written, the effects appear to be worse for Alchemist's Fire, due to catching on fire, unless you or some of your items are resistant to one but not the other).


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Let's be real, I don't want either of those items breaking in my PCs' adventuring pack. It's like when my kids eat cookies in the car, times a million.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Okay, I finally got a chance to read through again:

Thanks for the feedback.

Myrm gets advanced weapon training at level 9, because the fighter's WT ability says so. That he gets a +1 to hit at L6 is much less important than the options from AWT. Good point about the MF feat, I've changed that.

The problem with Burning Hands is that you're a prepared caster (this is also why you can't easily use it with Elemental Spell). Every slot you spend preparing BH is basically wasted if you don't meet a swarm, because it's not such a good spell otherwise. For a tiny swarm, melee attacks are still your better option; for a diminutive swarm, I recommend other area spells.

For Alter Self, I don't think that darkvision or scent warrants a green rating, and swimming is covered by the first-level spell Monkey Fish. For situational spells, there's always scrolls or potions.

I'm not sure that Rimed Cone of Cold is such a good combo, as this requires either a 6th level slot, or an expensive (L4-6) metamagic rod that isn't useful otherwise, or a metamagic trait that is better spent on a lower-level spell.

Hexcrafter is an orange way to gain spells since most curse spells are mediocre at best. Good point about ES. Broad Study is for using spells gained through multiclassing; if you add a spell to your spell list (as Two-World Magic explicitly does) then you can use regular spell combat with it.

Mad Magic is a good find, and makes bloodrager a good one-level dip (barbarian, not so much). I agree on VMC witch, especially since Hexcrafter is one of the best Magus archetypes. VMC fighter gives you the same options as myrm and at a much lower cost (the vmc loses only a few feats, myrm loses arcana AND spell recall AND gets diminished spellcasting). VMC'ing other classes into Magus was already listed as green at L7 and up.

And changed Chryn's scimitar for a dagger, headband to cha, and pearls to runestones. It was meant to be bluff OR diplomacy, not bluff AND diplomacy.

Please note that there is no such thing as "conditionally blue". A blue option means it's something that every build should consider, so if an option is only for specific builds or combos, then it's not blue.


Casual Viking wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
1. The Myrmidarch is not an archer Magus. It's a switch-hitter... the Myrmidarch can do the former or draw a bow and unleash a volley of Scorching Ray arrows (post errata).

...once he reaches level 11. Using his normal iterative attacks. Against full AC. Not impressed.

Secret Wizard wrote:


3. Never recommend 8 STR. Grapples are the Magi killer. You want as much CMD as you can get.
Gonna have to disagree there. Investing a lot of stat points to get +2 or 3 CMD is going to move you from terrible to mediocre, and that's just not a good deal, especially not for a class with actual defenses.

The thing about 8 str is that your gear will rapidly push you into medium encumbrance. And it will put your CMB into terrible, not a great choice, especially since there are ways to push it above mediocre.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The thing about 8 str is that your gear will rapidly push you into medium encumbrance.

You can easily fit your combat gear into 26 pounds; the only heavy thing you need is armor, and darkleaf or mithral armor is half the weight. For non-combat gear, bags of holding start at 1000 gp.

Quote:
And it will put your CMB into terrible, not a great choice

Your CMD will be one point less than if you had 10 strength. That's easily survivable; your defensive spells (like Mirror Image) cover CMD as well. You simply have better places to invest your points, and if you're not going to use strength to attack, you can afford to dump it.


Kurald Galain wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The thing about 8 str is that your gear will rapidly push you into medium encumbrance.

You can easily fit your combat gear into 26 pounds; the only heavy thing you need is armor, and darkleaf or mithral armor is half the weight. For non-combat gear, bags of holding start at 1000 gp.

Quote:
And it will put your CMB into terrible, not a great choice
Your CMD will be one point less than if you had 10 strength. That's easily survivable; your defensive spells (like Mirror Image) cover CMD as well. You simply have better places to invest your points, and if you're not going to use strength to attack, you can afford to dump it.

Maybe YOUR campaigns start you with mithral and/or darkleaf armor and magic bags of holding at first level, not the ones I've seen in my experience.


Kurald Galain wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Okay, I finally got a chance to read through again:

Thanks for the feedback.

Myrm gets advanced weapon training at level 9, because the fighter's WT ability says so. That he gets a +1 to hit at L6 is much less important than the options from AWT. Good point about the MF feat, I've changed that.

Actually, you're almost right, but for the wrong reason. The Fighter's Advanced Weapon Training option of Weapon Training says that starting at 9th level, you can take an Advanced Weapon Training option in place of Weapon Training. However, the Advanced Weapon Training Weapon feat has as its prerequisites Fighter level 5 and Weapon Training class feature. I forgot about Magus Fighter Training kicking in late (and normally being 1:2 offset 0), but Myrmidarch also advances this, so that at 7th level you count as Fighter 4 for feat prerequisites, and it advances 1:1 offset -3 until 10th level, where it bumps up to 1:1 offset 0. So this means that you qualify at 8th level, where you could actually have a general character advancement feat if you dipped 1 level in something else (for instance, Gunslinger).

Kurald Galain wrote:
The problem with Burning Hands is that you're a prepared caster (this is also why you can't easily use it with Elemental Spell). Every slot you spend preparing BH is basically wasted if you don't meet a swarm, because it's not such a good spell otherwise. For a tiny swarm, melee attacks are still your better option; for a diminutive swarm, I recommend other area spells.

Which 1st level spells would you recommend instead?

Kurald Galain wrote:
For Alter Self, I don't think that darkvision or scent warrants a green rating, and swimming is covered by the first-level spell Monkey Fish. For situational spells, there's always scrolls or potions.

They wouldn't warrant Green by themselves, but when you put all this together, it's good to have. This is especially true for a Mindblade or Eldritch Scion (limited number of spells known).

Kurald Galain wrote:

{. . .}

VMC fighter gives you the same options as myrm and at a much lower cost (the vmc loses only a few feats, myrm loses arcana AND spell recall AND gets diminished spellcasting). {. . .}

VMC Fighter has its place, but if you are a non-Myrmidarch Magus using this, you have to wait all the way to level *11* for Advanced Weapon Training to kick in (fortunately, non-Myrmidarch Fighter Training also kicked in the level before and is just 0.5 levels beyond what you need to qualify for the Advanced Weapon Training feat, and you just happen to have a bonus feat available). But level 11 is just before normal PFS retirement and not too far before the end of at least 1 AP (Council of Thieves), so Myrmidarch has something to be said for getting Weapon Training online faster.

Kurald Galain wrote:

{. . .}

Please note that there is no such thing as "conditionally blue". A blue option means it's something that every build should consider, so if an option is only for specific builds or combos, then it's not blue.
{. . .}

What I meant was the kind of thing for which some guides would give a split rating (like yours does for levels).


UnArcaneElection wrote:

Cone of Cold should be conditionally bumped up to Green if you already have Rime Spell (or a Metamagic Rod thereof) for some other reason -- even though the damage isn't any better than Fireball, and the range is worse, Fireball can't normally be used with Rime Spell.

Metamagic rods are problematic for magi, unless your ambition is to do spellcombat with an improvised club. That's why the Acrimony Veil from Shattered Star is such a prize acquisition for Magi, even with it's limitations.


^Problematic? Yes. Insoluble Problematic? No.

Possible solutions to the Metamagic Rod handling problem:


  • Have an extra appendage (Tiefling with Prehensile Tail and/or Grasping Tail, Kasatha, use Monstrous Physique spell to polymorph into a multi-armed form, or 2 level Alchemist dip with Tentacle or Vestigial Arm discovery)
  • Have your Familiar grab the Metamagic Rod and stow it after you're done using it (for casting something like Cone of Cold you're probably not using Spell Combat anyway), and potentially hand your weapon to you (or use a Weapon Cord or Quickdraw)
  • Use Natural Weapons (including those from being polymorphed) or Improved Unarmed Strike

Edit: Weaponwand only works with Wands, not Rods and Staffs.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Maybe YOUR campaigns start you with mithral and/or darkleaf armor and magic bags of holding at first level, not the ones I've seen in my experience.

That's funny, since in your very next post you recommend using an item which won't be available in almost all campaigns.

What's your point, anyway? That a Magus with a 14 CMD is crippled, but with 15 CMD he's doing great? That a first-level character is not allowed to have weaknesses even though he's, you know, first level? That Mirror Image, Displacement, and Opportune Parry shouldn't work against combat maneuvers? Because they totally do.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Metamagic rods are problematic for magi, unless your ambition is to do spellcombat with an improvised club.

I should point out that the handbook has several suggestions on how to use metarods, and that using them as a club is indeed an option (rough and ready trait to remove the penalty, use arcane pool to make it e.g. a +2 flaming rod). It's not optimized but it's certainly viable, in addition to being pretty funny.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Edit: Weaponwand only works with Wands, not Rods and Staffs.

Try Aroden's Spellsword.


I was pointing out why the item is so valuable, not recomending it as part of a 1st level character's kit.... but why I was willing to spend so much for my 8th level PFS character to obtain one.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kurald, out of curiosity what would be your opinion of Dervish Dance + Combat Reflexes + Flamboyant Arcana + Bodyguard? I'm becoming rather fond of the idea myself but I could use a second opinion.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Added feats Fortified Armor Training, Disposable Weapon, Improved Shield Bash, Tripping Staff, and a section on Path of War feats; racial abilities from Horror Adventures; and Blindness and Beast Shape II spells. From the book Haunted Heroes, the only big thing for a Magus is the guiding spirit trait and the Hand's Autonomy feat.

Darpeh wrote:
Kurald, out of curiosity what would be your opinion of Dervish Dance + Combat Reflexes + Flamboyant Arcana + Bodyguard? I'm becoming rather fond of the idea myself but I could use a second opinion.

I've found bodyguard and the helpful trait a very effective combo in protecting your allies. Flamboyant is a nice addition, but even without it the Magus can have one of the best defenses in the party (due to Mirror Image or Displacement) so bodyguard can leave enemies with no good options left.

Another nice addition here is the Shake It Off teamwork feat, since you'll be standing next to each other anyway.


i know it's mor then a year since someone posted something like this,
but i need some advice, and this Thread seems to be quit perfect for it.

I want to Play a Tiefling Fiend Flayer Magus Kensai with scimitar or Rapier and go for the slashing or fencing grace.

Frodos Guide is great an i will get alot of information there and can built up my own Style for this Kensai but there is one question i want to ask you:

I want to dip the first lvl (or lvls) into swashbuckler class.

My question here is: How Valuable is a 3lvl Dip (one lvl dip is out of question)

i mean you are getting your spells 2 lvls later and you would loose one Arcanepool Point for sure AND get the cool kensai-Magus Stuff 2 lvls later

but i thought of getting charmed life/3 (my charisma is only 12 atm but i think of getting it will raise to 14 and be increased with items later so this could be a nice thing later)

in addition you get nimble 1 .. (well +1 AC dodge is ok), but the much more valuable thing i am looking for are the lvl 3 Deeds where i must have at least one Panache point.

Keep Up and Menacing Swordplay are more situationale, but to get +2 initiative and +3 dmg on all rolls for an additional 2 lvl Dip seems not that Bad ... and i could have some Varieties for special situations to spend that panach point if i have to do it. (normal i just want to spare one)i will crit often so the chance to get that one Panachle point back is very high ^^

So What do you think is it worth a lvl 3 Dip or will i give up to much nice stuff from My Kensai magus in exchange ?

ah and i am getting the racial alternate scaled skin to be more stable.

and i am not sure about my Favourite class options +1/4 arcane points is at first sight just like .. ok ...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Dokalfar wrote:

I want to Play a Tiefling Fiend Flayer Magus Kensai with scimitar or Rapier and go for the slashing or fencing grace.

...

My question here is: How Valuable is a 3lvl Dip (one lvl dip is out of question)

Please be aware that slashing/fencing grace have been errata'ed to no longer work in spell combat; your alternative is the Scimitar Dance feat or an Agile weapon.

Fiend flayer is pretty bad; it doesn't cost anything to take it, but you basically shouldn't use it ever.

A one-level Swashbuckler dip is nice at low level, but I'd recommend retraining out of that at moderate level. More levels aren't particularly worth it because of what you lose. The dip is mainly for the bonus feats, and the Magus gets its own bonus feats. You can spend an arcana on Parry & Riposte, take the Enforcer feat instead of Menacing Swordplay, and use your spells for extra damage; and since you should be increasing your int instead of your cha, charmed life isn't really good for a Magus either. Overall nothing there is particularly worth two more levels of dip.


Kurald Galain wrote:
Dokalfar wrote:

I want to Play a Tiefling Fiend Flayer Magus Kensai with scimitar or Rapier and go for the slashing or fencing grace.

Well we will play an evil groupe adventure so i have chosen the Tiefling race and i think it's pretty n1... I am Reading that one of the best races (like often) is Human. And as you said When i take a iefling then Fiend Flayer has no negatives on his side. So the question would be Fiend Flayer or nothing ( and I don't want to play the Tiefling Tail build, strong for potions scrolls and wards, but bad for my style AND the GM told us it could be troublesome with the story).

One of my Probs is that i don't want to go for the (in my eyes) lame shocking crasp build... (yes it's strong but ... no choice for me)

I haven't gone through your guide intensivly and built my char on the guide from Frodo ... that both graces are not combinable anymore with spell combat ... ok thats really a problem, cause i hate the Dervish build ...

but it's good to know, that a one lvl dip in swashbuckler would also in your eyes be a solid choice !

so i have to rethink my Slashing grace idea and will read your Guide and then post perhaps again what i would do with my magus.

But one last question, You have low rated the first lvls of Kensai very hard (orange i guess). With the swashbuckler dip (one lvl) And my Dex/Int built i think Kensai is a very stable choice also in the first lvls but i think i am wrong (only WHY) ^^

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Yes, tiefling is a good race. There's no problem taking fiend flayer as long as you don't use it.

And well, you can have a perfectly viable Magus without dex-to-damage. For example, you can create a flaming-shocking-frost weapon, the Bladebound archetype, spells like Frostbite to add to your damage, or even good ol' Weapon Specialization. It's not like the Magus has problems damaging things :)

At low level, kensai is not so good because it loses a lot (e.g. diminished spellcasting and no spell recall) and all its low-level abilities are easily duplicated by feats. The kensai's unique abilities don't come up until level 10 or so.


Kurald Galain wrote:

Yes, tiefling is a good race. There's no problem taking fiend flayer as long as you don't use it.

And well, you can have a perfectly viable Magus without dex-to-damage. For example, you can create a flaming-shocking-frost weapon, the Bladebound archetype, spells like Frostbite to add to your damage, or even good ol' Weapon Specialization. It's not like the Magus has problems damaging things :)

At low level, kensai is not so good because it loses a lot (e.g. diminished spellcasting and no spell recall) and all its low-level abilities are easily duplicated by feats. The kensai's unique abilities don't come up until level 10 or so.

ok i see, i will have Dex 19 and Int 15 so i can boost AC a lil bit and also i would take the scaled skin racial alternate !

The Frostbite built could be very stable and Bladebound Archtype sound very strong, don't know if our GM allows it ^^


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The addition of the 1st level spell bladed tutor's spirit all but buried the dex-to-damage Magus, IMO. Worst case penalty with power attack is -1 through level 20, and it lasts 1 min/level. You can still up your dex a bit to take advantage of things like celestial plate, too. Bladebound is just such a cool archetype.


Kurald Galain wrote:


Darpeh wrote:
Kurald, out of curiosity what would be your opinion of Dervish Dance + Combat Reflexes + Flamboyant Arcana + Bodyguard? I'm becoming rather fond of the idea myself but I could use a second opinion.

I've found bodyguard and the helpful trait a very effective combo in protecting your allies. Flamboyant is a nice addition, but even without it the Magus can have one of the best defenses in the party (due to Mirror Image or Displacement) so bodyguard can leave enemies with no good options left.

Another nice addition here is the Shake It Off teamwork feat, since you'll be standing next to each other anyway.

Would you say bodyguard is still worth it without the helpful trait? I see your point regarding Flamboyant... perhaps I'll consider a familiar instead.

I might also mention I don't see bodyguard anywhere within the guide.


taks wrote:
The addition of the 1st level spell bladed tutor's spirit all but buried the dex-to-damage Magus, IMO. Worst case penalty with power attack is -1 through level 20, and it lasts 1 min/level. You can still up your dex a bit to take advantage of things like celestial plate, too. Bladebound is just such a cool archetype.

hm this strange not Core spell where you can reduce every penalty on hit with feats like Power attack ?

isn't this Spell Homebrewed ? we just use the Core spells, but i am sure there had been a lot of discussions about this Spell on the Boards.


@Those considering Fiend Flayer: It does have an opportunity cost even if you don't use it, because it modifies Magus Arcana by adding 2 more options for Magus Arcana, thus making it incompatible with any other archetype that modifies Magus Arcana, at least Rules As Written (somewhere on here is a FAQ that specifies this strict interpretation, although I can't remember how to find it right off hand).

Edit: Found the above-mentioned FAQ.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

"I'm wounded and in mortal danger! Wait, I know: instead of attacking or casting a defensive spell, I'll take a standard action to deal constitution damage to myself! That'll show them!" :)


You would want to use it more as part of a finishing move. But that gets into REALLY specific conditions, such that you're unlikely to ever hit them. And to be able to use it more, you'd have to build like a Kineticist, namely pumping Constitution through the roof, but Magus is already more MAD than a Kineticst, especially if you are also using the Eldritch Archer archetype to be able to stay out of melee combat so that Constitution damage doesn't hurt as much.

Also note that the second Magus Arcana that Fiend Flayer makes available (Bypassing Strike) is really bad (you eat a Swift Action and Arcane Pool points to get **1** attack that bypasses an Evil Outsider's Damage Reduction -- give me a break).


so you 2 would recommend not to take Fiend Flayer if not for an serious purpose like Style ?

Bladebound Frostbite Kensai
Or
Bladebound Kensai with that crit Built are then my 2 Favourite Iptions atm

(perhaps with out bladebound ... my GM does not allow much Archtypes and hasn'T answered yet).

Some Advice for that choices perhaps someone played both and has some Pros and Cons ?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I'm not seeing the difference. "That crit built" can use frostbite just fine.

Bladebound is one of the best archetypes though, and at low level I wouldn't recommend kensai.


Kurald Galain wrote:

I'm not seeing the difference. "That crit built" can use frostbite just fine.

Bladebound is one of the best archetypes though, and at low level I wouldn't recommend kensai.

oh okay, i thought that both alone would be very Feat intensive and together nearly impossible to combine


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dokalfar wrote:
taks wrote:
The addition of the 1st level spell bladed tutor's spirit all but buried the dex-to-damage Magus, IMO. Worst case penalty with power attack is -1 through level 20, and it lasts 1 min/level. You can still up your dex a bit to take advantage of things like celestial plate, too. Bladebound is just such a cool archetype.

hm this strange not Core spell where you can reduce every penalty on hit with feats like Power attack ?

isn't this Spell Homebrewed ? we just use the Core spells, but i am sure there had been a lot of discussions about this Spell on the Boards.

It's in the melee tactics toolbox, IIRC. It's not core, but it is Paizo.


^That's Blade Tutor's Spirit that I mentioned way upthread (first time in my debugged Mymidarch switch-hitter build post).

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

taks wrote:
Dokalfar wrote:
isn't this Spell Homebrewed ? we just use the Core spells, but i am sure there had been a lot of discussions about this Spell on the Boards.
It's in the melee tactics toolbox, IIRC. It's not core, but it is Paizo.

Of course, the Magus itself is not core either. Clearly any campaign that has a Magus in it must allow some amount of extra books.


Kurald Galain wrote:
taks wrote:
Dokalfar wrote:
isn't this Spell Homebrewed ? we just use the Core spells, but i am sure there had been a lot of discussions about this Spell on the Boards.
It's in the melee tactics toolbox, IIRC. It's not core, but it is Paizo.
Of course, the Magus itself is not core either. Clearly any campaign that has a Magus in it must allow some amount of extra books.

Yeah Kurald that's right for me it was important that's not entirely Homebrewed, cause i didn't find it somewhere now i have my answer :P melee tactics n1

my GM was Irritated about how you could USE wands and RODS with my Teifling tail even when i get the Racial Archetype and the Prehensive Tail Feat !!

in his Eyes, i can take small items like potions an stuff, but not USE Wands and Rods (you couldn't use Weapons is written in the Description)

is there something i am missing ? cause in the most guides i found they Use the Teifling tail for Wands and Rods


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

One of the reasons I liked the hexcrafter archetype was due to the prehensile hair hex. Rods can be used with the prehensile hair without interfering with spell combat.


Now that you mention it, just how many small objects can you hold in your Prehensile Hair (or for that matter, White Hair for a White-Haired Witch)?


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^That's Blade Tutor's Spirit that I mentioned way upthread (first time in my debugged Mymidarch switch-hitter build post).

That is a nice spell, I will have to have my character add it to his spell book.


Saint Bernard wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^That's Blade Tutor's Spirit that I mentioned way upthread (first time in my debugged Mymidarch switch-hitter build post).

That is a nice spell, I will have to have my character add it to his spell book.

A very nice spell, and very usable for a mid-level dex build that did not dump str.

An 11 starting strength would allow you to pick up a deep red ioun stone and power attack at 9th or 11th level.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Now that you mention it, just how many small objects can you hold in your Prehensile Hair (or for that matter, White Hair for a White-Haired Witch)?

The hex doesn't say other than you can use your eyebrows and men can also use their beards. I suppose I'd allow a woman to use her beard, provided she is particularly hairy enough as a baseline (same goes for men, if they make it a point to be clean shaven, no beard). But it's not clear: is there only one hair source at a time?

I think I'd rule that there can only be one usable at a time.


Blade tutor spirit is nice if you're str based but I don't see how it makes dex to damage irrelevant, you can't really get away with a low dex on a str build since you don't get heavy armour until level 13 (not to mention if you go kensai you never get it) so dex is important for AC, not to mention the nice bonuses to your weakest save, reflex, and initiative, but a dex to damage build can get away with 10 str just fine.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Think about that for a minute... with a 10 STR, there's no power attack (so no blade tutor's spirit). Currently there's only 1 way to get spell combat with a normal melee attack (dancing dervish, which is rumored to be going away). The only advantage a DEX build will have is the increased threat range from the scimitar and slightly higher AC.

Blade tutor's spirit adds an additional damage bonus with very little penalty (-1 for about half your levels, 0 for the rest), and since we're comparing the DEX to the STR build, add 1.5x to the STR bonus for 2-handing on rounds in which you aren't spell combatting.

Nobody ever said the STR build completely sacrifices DEX, either, so that's a red herring to begin with. Furthermore, it does not matter for the point I made. The STR magus is simply better.

EDIT: reworded for clarity and added bit about blade tutor's spirit.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Slightly higher reflex/initiative, for the DEX build, too, but it still doesn't stack up.

151 to 200 of 1,651 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.