So, here's a little "obscure" rules issue I managed to come across.
Let's assume a Tiny( or similar)-sized creature who receives benefits to damage dice rolls, such as Enhancement Bonuses, Weapon Specialization, Inspire Courage, etc. Even Strength, Dexterity, or any attribute modifier to damage would apply here. All of these effects provide a bonus to attack and damage rolls.
Now, our Tiny-sized martial creature (let's presume it's the Songbird of Doom, as that's probably the most likely case here) uses a Natural Weapon to attack (as they generally have lower damage dice; Unarmed Strike is also appropriate here). However, because of its size, it can only ever do 1 damage (because that's what the effective size damage becomes, and is what would be listed in the damage entry).
So, if our Tiny-sized martial doesn't roll for damage (he just automatically deals 1), does that mean he's not doing a damage roll, and therefore doesn't receive benefits such as Weapon Specialization, Enhancement Bonuses, or Inspire Courage to his damage?
Essentially, is a "1" in a damage dice entry simplified, and is shorthand for "1D1" (because it's repetitive and somewhat pointless to say it as such), or are those who are Tiny or smaller never able to do more than 1 damage and be the most pathetic things to fight ever?
I've never seen damage listed as a flat number. Where did you come across it?
Take a look at the raven. Yes, it will always deal 1 damage, but its damage is still listed as 1d3-4, and is therefore still a roll and benefits from bonuses to rolls.
The same should apply to your example character, I think.
Default natural attack damage for some Fine and Diminutive-sized creatures show value of 1 instead of a die roll. In such cases specifically this should still count as a weapon damage roll for purpose of effects that apply bonuses to weapon damage rolls.
I've never seen damage listed as a flat number. Where did you come across it?
Take a look at the raven. Yes, it will always deal 1 damage, but its damage is still listed as 1d3-4, and is therefore still a roll and benefits from bonuses to rolls.
The same should apply to your example character, I think.
Some very small (Fine and Diminutive) creatures deal 1 damage with attacks instead of rolling a die. You can see it on the table of natural attack damages by size in the Bestiary.
NPC Codex has small shuriken throwers doing 1d1+X damage.
I've never seen damage listed as a flat number. Where did you come across it?
Take a look at the raven. Yes, it will always deal 1 damage, but its damage is still listed as 1d3-4, and is therefore still a roll and benefits from bonuses to rolls.
The same should apply to your example character, I think.
Outside Jeraa's statement, there is also this FAQ, which shows a simple "1" on the damage progression chart. The problem here is that RAW, it's not a damage dice listing, and ergo doesn't constitute damage bonuses being applicable.
@ Casual Viking: Do you have a page number for that?
bonus to attack and damage rolls
"1" in a damage dice entry simplified
Whether or not anything is actually rolled, it is a damage roll.
So I'd add anything that adds to damage rolls whether or not the 1 is processed as static "1" or "1d1".
That's the point of a Damage Roll, is to roll dice. Otherwise we should just call it Damage. A Damage Roll involves Damage Dice. A "1" in the entry does not denote the Damage Dice involved, so suggesting it to be a Damage Roll is stretching the RAW beyond what it's written to apply.
Well, it's an amusing oddity - nice you found this one.
However, ask yourself: Would a tiny creature profit from weapon training, magical weapon improvement or increased morale?
It isn't clear to me if you should, but if you do then for consistency you should also apply any Strength penalty to damage as well. When a creature is listed as doing 1 damage, they generally don't list the strength penalty.
I'd say the reason it is listed as a 1 on the table instead of d1 is because there is no such thing as a d1, so therefor it is redundant to do so. Although, it is a bit unusual for something as small as a fly able to kill someone because of odd bonuses. YMMV though.
There's certainly nothing in the rules that supports an intended difference between damage rolls and the corner case of the damage die being reduced to "1". The combat chapter uses "damage" for melee and thrown weapons, but the ability score chapter describes Strength as adding to "damage rolls".
I'm satisfied with the evidence that "damage" and "damage rolls" are interchangeable terms for weapons.
The Shuriken, Mancatcher, Blowgun and Sharpstones are weapons listed as doing "1 damage".
As far as very small creatures go, there are rules for how a bird attacks (1d2-4), and a housefly is not a creature that even has an attack.
Or a Möbius strip.
If nothing else, it'd be inconsistent with the other rules. After all, you 'roll' for damage after a successful hit. As a damage roll is called for, the 1 would be your die result, subject to normal damage roll bonuses like that 18 Str you're somehow rocking as such a tiny creature.
It's also treated as a damage die on the weapon size damage scales, too. That halfling throwing a shuriken still gets to get the benefits of everything when flinging it, despite the 1 damage it does. (Although I'd suggest she not waste her time with Vital Strike on it.)
I would always treat the damage dealt as having dice involved, regardless of whether or not actual dice are listed.
If something is listed as dealing 1 point (not 1D1 or 1D4-3 etc) then enlarging it or using Lead Blades literally does NOTHING.
That's dumb.
I would always treat the damage dealt as having dice involved, regardless of whether or not actual dice are listed.
If something is listed as dealing 1 point (not 1D1 or 1D4-3 etc) then enlarging it or using Lead Blades literally does NOTHING.
That's dumb.
A cursory glance at the chart on this entry for Lead Blades doesn't sustain this interpretation.
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A cursory glance at the chart on this entry for Lead Blades doesn't sustain this interpretation.I would always treat the damage dealt as having dice involved, regardless of whether or not actual dice are listed.
If something is listed as dealing 1 point (not 1D1 or 1D4-3 etc) then enlarging it or using Lead Blades literally does NOTHING.
That's dumb.
Uh, a medium weapon that does 1d3 damage deals 1d2 damage as small weapon (see whip and light shield). This chart says a 1d3 medium weapon does 1 point of damage as a tiny weapon. So wouldn't it follow that a tiny weapon that does 1 point of damage damage would do 1d2 points of damage under the effects of lead blades?
Or am I misinterpreting what you said?
EDIT: An Example:
You have 3 whips.
A Medium Whip (deals 1d3 points of damage).
A Small Whip (deals 1d2 points of damage).
A Tiny Whip (deals 1 point of damage).
You cast lead blades on the tiny whip, making it deal damage as a small whip.
Ergo, our tiny whip deals 1d2 points while under the effects of lead blades.
A cursory glance at the chart on this entry for Lead Blades doesn't sustain this interpretation.I would always treat the damage dealt as having dice involved, regardless of whether or not actual dice are listed.
If something is listed as dealing 1 point (not 1D1 or 1D4-3 etc) then enlarging it or using Lead Blades literally does NOTHING.
That's dumb.
are you saying that if you found a rules legal way to increase size by five categories, your damage would not change if it started at 1pt (vs 1d1, 1d4-3 etc)?
Please answer:
Yes, I don't think damage would increase even if your size category changed by five categories.
or
No, I believe as your size increases, so does your damage.
Please pick one and respond with it.
You can actually buy 1-sided dice.
To summarize:
There is no explicit distinction between weapons doing "1" and weapons doing "d(x>1)".
The rules for Strength bonuses in the Combat chapter compared with the Ability Scores chapter shows that in the context of weapon damage, the absence or presence of the word "roll" is not significant.
Published characters and monsters use 1d1+x notation.
And finally, the word "roll" does not have a rules definition AFAIK, and one-side dice apparently exist.