Dwarven Bard, making it work.

[The Pale King]

So I really want to play a Dwarven Bard, I've always wanted to really. What are some good ideas for making it work? 20 point buy. I was thinking you would probably want to go with something like:

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

or

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

Depending on if you wanted to go ranged or melee, and then focus on the buffs. Which archetypes might be useful? Any dwarf feats I should look at?

[My Self]

As a dwarf, you'll be losing out on bonus spells, spell DCs, extra rounds of Bardic Performance, lower Performance DCs, and a smaller bonus to Perform checks, which are used to replace other skills. If you can find an archetype that swaps out performances with DCs for performances without, and perhaps your versatile performance (maybe, it's still pretty good), consider those. Also, as a Dwarf, you do well in heavy armor, so if you can find better armored bards, it might be worth your while.

As a ranged character, you have nothing going against you, but nothing special going for you either. Melee, however, gets some pretty fun toys. Consider the banner of ancient kings, flag bearer, and a longspear in melee.

[Cavall]

I'd actually recommend skald for dwarf. You can pick up heavy armour, really buff your allies and as a dwarf you'll be able to stand your own in a fight. Maybe second rank with a reach weapon.

For bard, focus on buffs. I'd still go reach, long spear maybe. Because you'll take a hit on DC, choosing spells that lack saves will be your best bet. Heals, buffs and summons.

You won't lose too much from songs. A round or so. After a few levels that won't even matter.

[My Self]

Skalds, unlike certain archetyped Bards, can't cast in heavy without a spell failure chance.

[Vrog Skyreaver]

the Dwarven Bard racial fcb is amazing: ignoring spell failure is fantastic.

The first question (and really the biggest one given the extreme versatility of the class) that you should ask yourself is: What do I want to do in combat? Bards can be tanks, healers, damage dealers, controllers, debuffers, and generalists.

I would look at the following options if you want to be a tank bard: the antagonize feat is fantastic for forcing enemies to focus on you. use the diplomacy option, and (as you level) add in combat reflexes and standstill. As far as archetypes go, I would look at the arcane duelist and archeologist.

Healers: Bards are good healers who can hold their own through most of the game. They don't (at base) get the heal spell, but umd and scrolls can be your friend here. the song healer archetype gets the ability to cast heal using bardic music, which is kinda amazing.

Here are some good options of you want to play a damage dealer:
Besides taking almost all the bard damage dealing spells (many of which deal sonic damage) look at the thundercaller archetype. They (by level 13) get the ability to throw up to three soundbursts a round, which have scaling damage. They also get to force rage on enemies (particularly enemy casters) and can add in electrical damage from call lightning and call lightning storm.

If it's a controller you're looking for, enchantment is the name of the game. you'll want to boost your cha as high as possible, and take spells like charm person and suggestion. the negotiator, sandman, and dirge bard are good choices here.

Debuffers will combine spells such as bestow curse with some fairly hefty bard song abilities. The archetype that is king of the debuffers is the court bard.

I hope that gives you some idea of where to start, at least.

[My Self]

Dwarf is a bad way to play an offensive bard.

[Alex Mack]

If you aren't dead set on being a bard but would instead consider a class that gets it's most important gimmick and works of of WIS instead of Charisma then you can consider an Evangelist Cleric.
You could still play like a bard and pick up bardish skills (albeit less). Swings your axe and inspire companions in combat but you wouldn't be a bard.

[avr]

The Stone Singer racial feat doubles the range of bardic performances underground. You might be able to make use of that.

It doesn't make you more powerful, but the Battle Herald PrC seems to me to be appropriate.

[lemeres]

does the stat set have to be that lop sided? You can easily go with this:

STR: 16 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 9 CHA: 13

That just drops CHA and WIS by 1 point each. The CHA can be made up for at 4th level with the ability score increase. You can also switch your STR and DEX as desired for melee vs. ranged build. Overall, the stats are just a tiny bit lower than what I would use for a human bard.

Dwarves aren't terrible bards. A bit painful, but they can still do it well enough since the penalty is to a secondary stat, not a primary one. You are about as well off as an elf trying to be a front line melee class with their con penalty.

[calagnar]

This is what I did for a dwarf bard. Not saying it's the best way to go. It might give you a idea about what your looking for.

This is her at level 1. Going for will save DC for hold person, and hold monster. So she can Coup de Grace them as their held. I don't expect much to live after the fort save. As at level one the DC on mini damage is DC 32.
Dwarf
Bard (Arcane Duelist)
Str 16
Dex 7
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 9
Cha 15 (Focus for this build)
Traits: Killer: You deal additional damage equal to your weapon's critical hit modifier when you score a successful critical hit with a weapon.
Zest for Battle: Whenever you have a morale bonus to hit (Flag Bearer feet). You receive a +1 trait bonus to damage.
Feet:
Arcane Strike (Swift action +1 Damage)
Flag Bearer (+1 moral bonus to hit and damage.)
Heavy Pick Damage 1D6 Critical 20/X4
Heavy Pick W/ flag bearer, & Arcane Strike to hit +4 damage +6
Heavy Pick W/ flag bearer, Arcane Strike, & Inspire Courage to hit +5 damage +7

[Saldiven]

If you go with a Dwarf Bard, make your chosen instrument be some sort of percussion instrument, like a portable timpani or one of those shoulder mounted drums in marching bands. Not only is it suitably Dwarf-y, you can use the mallets as your weapon.

:D

[josh hill 935]

The Pale King wrote:

So I really want to play a Dwarven Bard, I've always wanted to really. What are some good ideas for making it work? 20 point buy. I was thinking you would probably want to go with something like:

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

or

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

Depending on if you wanted to go ranged or melee, and then focus on the buffs. Which archetypes might be useful? Any dwarf feats I should look at?

I wanted to do something similar with a half orc bard with low cha. Focus on things you can do that are useful for everyone, but not necessarily buffs. Spells like grease. You can do quite a bit of damage too.