josh hill 935's page

So I had an idea, and was wondering how well you guys thought it would work.

The basic idea was to take a brawler, give him a rapier and some light armour and max out on dex. He would go TWF, using the rapier as his main weapon, and fist as a secondary weapon, and take the disarm combat maneuver and try and focus on maxing that.

I realise it might not be 100% optimal, but it might be quite fun. I think you could actually make it a very very effective disarm build, and maybe also max out on AoA feats to cash in on opponents not having a weapon?

What would make it more effective, and what would be its major downfalls?

Kyaaadaa wrote:

I would play it as such: If the meaning of your puzzles doesn't become apparent to the party within a real life time frame of a set amount, allow them skill checks to provide hints and clues.

That doesn't work.

I'm quite serious. You can't provide clues to someone who's downstairs getting drinks, or who has just popped out the cell phone and no longer cares enough to pay attention. "What? Think of a rainbow? Whatever,... Hey, have you seen this YouTube clip with the annoyed cat?"

I get what you are saying, but we just have different players and different groups. Four of the five at least will enjoy the puzzle, and it will be fairly easy to crack.

As for what the puzzle is there for; its the door to a temple. It is made to be opened by anyone that wants to pray, and keep out grave robbers.

Well my time as a DM is almost up with my group, which means that soon I get to play again!! And one class that caught my eye in the ACG was the brawler, anyone have any suggestions on a good build? Or how viable the assorted archetypes are? Assume core races and 20 point buy.

I really liked the brawler, but when i played I discovered two things.

1)Combat maneuvers were much more effective than punching

2)Lack of Armour means you can't afford to stand and trade blows anyway.

If I were to do it again I would go for a full STR build, get feats towards trip, and go for a wrestler build.

Yeah, your right - stupid me.

If you say so, I don't remember the books. I do remember the film

One idea I did have is to have moving pictures, a bit like in Harry Potter...

So the characters in the paintings move, the skies go light and dark, almost if you imagine like a projector screen projecting the light images onto the wall. That would allow the characters to maybe move items and characters from one mural to the next to put them in the right order or something.

Thoughts? Yeah.... don't do it.

This is one of those ideas that looks great on paper and sounds like an awesome narrative trope -- which is is -- and in particular can be a great way to provide information in a movie or illustrated book, where the writer controls the character's reactions to the puzzle.

I've literally never seen it work at a gaming table.

Sounds like a challenge to me!

My PCs are smart, and enjoy a challenge. I don't think it will be too difficult or boring for them. If visuals are the key, I could involve props.

As for metagaming, that can be a problem, but can be overcome by 1; making sure the PCs don't know things the characters don't, 2; giving int based hints so the wizard is more likely to get a clue than the barbarian, and 3; realising that even in real life people surprise you. With 20 int there is a chance of overthinking things (who here doesn't know a really smart guy who can do the dumbest things?) and that the orc might see it a different way. I guess like when Frodo works out the riddle to Moria that stumps Gandalf. People can surprise you.

Owly, good ideas - I will bare those in mind.

I want to use a puzzle as a way to tell the backstory to my adventure. The PC's have been sent to go and retrieve an artifact they know nothing about. I think it would be really really cool to have a puzzle that actually tells the backstory of the item, what it does, who it was made by e.c.t.

I have already decided on the setting - an underground temple - and think that the best idea might be to have the PC's do something with large murals painted on the wall. That way, the murals can tell the story, so they piece together the story by examining the murals whilst they to solve the puzzle.

I might give them some sort of riddle that gives them a hint as to something they need to identify in the pictures, or just leave them to figure it out themselves.

Any thoughts?

josh hill 935 wrote:

BadBird wrote:

The thing about feinting with a two-handed Slayer is that the strikes which you give up to use feint probably do a ton more damage than the sneak attack dice you get after...

You would think so, but not really, unless I'm being thick.

Until level 6, I don't need to sacrifice anything, and by level 6 my sneak attack is 2d6 - exactly the same as my greatsword. All I'm actually giving up is my strength bonus, but in return I get a much much greater chance to hit. For me, +10 or so, and the enemy loses their dex bonus, against +10 and +5 against them with their dex bonus.

For me, its a trade worth making.

Fair enough, but remember that 2d6 (=~7 damage) is very minor compared to strength, enhancement, power attack and studied target by 6 (=~18). So the attack you give up at 6 has the potential to do around 25 damage with a greatsword Power Attack, compared to the average 7 damage you're picking up from sneak attack dice. Also, if you get Haste somehow, you're losing out on two attacks. Tactically, you also can't feint with a move action while moving up to a target.

If you wanted to make use of sneak attack dice, doing something like a Weaponmaster with four levels of Ninja would get you a charisma-fueled Ki Pool and Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick along with sneak dice, so that you could basically use 'charisma magic' to jump in and out of an invisibility-type effect with nothing more than swift actions. Charge -> attack -> vanish (defended with 'invisibility') -> sneak attack -> attack -> vanish -> and so on. Tactically you can also go invisible to begin with and stroll up to an unaware archer or spellcaster, jump them with a free sneak attack when they try to cast a spell or shoot, and then hit them with another free attack if they try to run away or a full attack next turn if they don't run.

Thats pretty cool, 25 damage is lots! Lots more than I have ever had someone do in bonuses, but I'm not expert. I imagine we play fairly different types of games though :)

Also, with the power attack you are lowering your to hit chance, so although when you do hit you do more damage I imagine the difference would actually be smaller IRL :)

josh hill 935 wrote:

My next character will be a duelist with a great sword. I couldn't use swashbuckler or duelist because of THW, so I decided to go slayer. For me the reason was the sneak attack, not for actual sneaking, but for feinting. My build will be based around feinting and then doing a ton of damage.

The thing about feinting with a two-handed Slayer is that the strikes which you give up to use feint probably do a ton more damage than the sneak attack dice you get after...

You would think so, but not really, unless I'm being thick.

Until level 6, I don't need to sacrifice anything, and by level 6 my sneak attack is 2d6 - exactly the same as my greatsword. All I'm actually giving up is my strength bonus, but in return I get a much much greater chance to hit. For me, +10 or so, and the enemy loses their dex bonus, against +10 and +5 against them with their dex bonus.

For me, its a trade worth making.

I've been working on an a build for a character that is built around dueling and I mean it in the literally sense of a 1 on 1 battle played on a fair ground. ( think duel of honor )

I've considered things like Swashbuckler, Daring Champion Cavalier, Fighter, Rogue, and Slayer but I'm open to any ideas.

The character will likely be used in fights that aren't duels but I'm hoping to build a majority of the kit around calling out one person and making sure they drop.

General Rules: This is to gather ideas so anythings welcome but for a baseline.
1. 20 Point Buy
2. Any Level
3. No Third Party

Why Non-Duelist? For two main reasons:
1. This character will likely start at level 1 so until 6 bab it's not an option

2. Even after level 6 I'm not a fan of prestige classes much less duelist.

My next character will be a duelist with a great sword. I couldn't use swashbuckler or duelist because of THW, so I decided to go slayer. For me the reason was the sneak attack, not for actual sneaking, but for feinting. My build will be based around feinting and then doing a ton of damage.

That wouldn't really fit the story for this, but its a good idea. It seems like the problem is predictability, so I guess I will make it so that some dodgy people are good, and some seemingly good people arent - that way they never know whats coming.

So I really want to play a Dwarven Bard, I've always wanted to really. What are some good ideas for making it work? 20 point buy. I was thinking you would probably want to go with something like:

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

or

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

Depending on if you wanted to go ranged or melee, and then focus on the buffs. Which archetypes might be useful? Any dwarf feats I should look at?

I wanted to do something similar with a half orc bard with low cha. Focus on things you can do that are useful for everyone, but not necessarily buffs. Spells like grease. You can do quite a bit of damage too.

It doesn't happen often. Last adventure (lasted 3 or 4 sessions) there was only a single wrong'un, and none in the adventure before then. Its just when it does its a big thing so people remember it.

This time I wanted to have someone manipulate the party for his own gain for story reasons, but I also don't want to get into a situation where every adventure someone betrays them.

Hey guys, I have only DMed a few times, but I have a tendency of having untrustworthy NPCs that the players come into contact with. I already see my players' faces go 'oh s!%@' whenever they go into a place where they have to leave their weapons behind, and think 'this is definitely a trap'.

Is this bad? Or is it good because it forces them to question the world around them and think smart?

In my next campaign I was planning on having a character steal something from them, but I also don't want them to get think 'Oh s%&%, the DM is out to get us'.

If I drop hints that the guy is untrustworthy is that better?

Golarion, or homebrew setting?

Homebrew, but fairly standard.

Good idea. Maybe I could make it HAVE to fight in the cave because it wants to defend its eggs or its treasure or something?

Also, the elves would only have wood and stone weapons, but the dragon has a lair full of treasure, including magical weapons, so I like the idea of one of the heroes grabbing a weapon off the floor and using it to slay the dragon.

Hey guys, I was wondering what tactics will allow people to take down an adult or older green dragon that plays smart.

This isn't an adventure, its a backstory myth, so, how would you face a green dragon with an entire ancient (bronze age) elven kingdom to kill it?

Obviously the dragon doesn't have to land, and arrows vs breath weapon is like scissors vs rock. Possibly the elves could sneak into its cave and hide? Kill it when it lands, but then if the dragon was smart (and they are pretty smart) it would just run out, wait outside for them to starve and breath weapon them when they come out...

One of the elves can have divine protection of some sort that helps, but I'm not sure what.

Its not really a bastard sword though - unarmed would be better for flavour.

Reading Panache, I don't even need to. I can just stick with the 3/day from my Cha and not refresh it. That is fine by me.

Just out of interest, if I decided to go full swashbuckler, rather than slayer, is there any way to use the feint to do something cool?

She's a Landsknecht doppelsöldner mercenary. Don't let the fancy clothing deceive you. the weapon is a flamberge which iirc is not yet present as a separate weapon in PF. So use a greatsword.

She's a straight weaponmaster fighter imo, like this gal.

Yes, she definitely is. BUT, I don't see any reason why a doppelsoldier can't fight with a personalised style based around dueling. This refers to a 'two handed long sword' but is similar and is just a brief proof of concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing

But yeah, I totally agree she isnt really a rogue or a monk or a cleric, so as much as it would be cool to do that I can't justify it.

Her backstory is as the daughter of a noble in the capital. Her brothers are knights and got taught to fight, and she learned with them because she wanted to. She was taught by the master of arms, and got pretty good, but obviously noone took her seriously as a woman. As a young women she got in duels with other young rich nobles in the city, but could never be a knight so became a mercenary.

Amateur Swashbuckler: Opportune Parry and Riposte would be a huge benefit and fit perfectly with your high charisma and concept, but you would need to be able to one-hand your sword some of the time to regain Panache points.

The Crane Style feat chain would also give you a really powerful 'duelist' parry-and-riposte ability, letting you switch between two-handing for attacks and one-handing for defense. One level of Unarmed Fighter or Monk would let you pull it off fairly easily.

If you really want to get fancy, you could pick up a level of Kata Master of Many Styles Monk to give you both a Panache Pool and easy access to the Crane Style feats; Panache Pool won't recharge at first, but you can eventually work in Slashing Grace with your one/two-hander.

With both Crane Style and Opportune Parry and Riposte you can attack a foe's attack to parry it, and then make two counterattacks when they miss. If your parry attack is a fail, you've still got a large AC bonus and one counterattack if they still miss. It's basically complete dominance against melee.

Im not so bothered about crane style, but the swashbuckler idea is good. You mean that I could take a feat in unarmed strike and punch to gain panash points? that would be cool, and good flavour too. I will look at panash and how that works

Sounds like fun!

If I swap foil scrutiny out for a combat trick or whatever it is and take a fighter feat I could have the feats to add in a finessed elven blade as well... I'm not sure it would help in any way, but I could do it. Is there any reason why I should?

Awesome, thanks man. This is looking like a really fun character now, as opposed to my slightly boring figher. Which slayer talents do you prefer?

I've decided to go with slayer, for flavour as much as anything. I can imagine her stalking the streets of the capital getting into duels with other bored young nobles like a game. The sneak attack plus feint works perfectly with her high Cha.

Few questions:

Does the 'foil scrutiny' talent increase feint? I presume so.

For 2nd level I get 2 feats, so presumably these should be weapon focus and combat expertise + foil scrutiny at level 2.

At level 3 I get my sneak attack and an extra feat - improved feint if that is the direction I go

This doesn't leave me enough feats for my elven curved blade and weapon finess, which im not sure how I feel about. Maybe its good, maybe its bad.

Anyway, stats I rolled are

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 10
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 16

I know 16 in cha is overkill, but its flavour.

I know 10 in con is suicidal, but same reason. Seeing as my HP will be low, should i swap STR and DEX to get an extra point of AC? I think not, seeing as I don't have enough feats to weapon finess any more.

As a level 3 I will be at +11 feint, (3 class skill, 3 ranks, 3 cha, 2 from foil scrutiny) and if successful can make an attack at +7 against an opponent with no AC, and if I hit, do 3d6+5, if I study too.

Noticed one small problem - my plan to use mobility won't work because feint uses my move. Never mind

Interesting. Also worth noting, my group plays low levels. We enjoy it more, so I think a feint build might be a good idea. I know it only works for one attack, but we rarely play past level 6.

Slayer looks fun too - I think I might steer clear of Sklad - my next character is going to be a half-orc bard comedian that suffers from depression (all he wants is to make people laugh, but really is better at just bashing their heads in with his mace) so the characters might be too similar in play style, or I might even use a Sklad for him.

Under what circumstances can I deny someone their dex bonus for the slayer's sneak attack?

Feinting works right? that might be a fun route to go down, and would make use of the cha

I will look at Skald now - cheers. I could potentially give her an elven curved blade and weapon finesse her, but I'm not sure that would help an awful lot. I guess that is something that would work well if I went for a massive AC build, using armour training, dodge e.c.t. and going for mobility and AC rather than damage...

EDIT: just seen your thought about the Elven curved blade. Good to know we are thinking on the same wavelength. I will give her 14STR minimum :)

I contemplated bard actually, but looking at her, shes a fighter. Plus, I'm not sure that rogue would give me anything extra, and ninja is in a book I don't have. I know there are rules here, but for simplicity with the party I'm limited a little bit (not just to core rule book though, just nothing too obsucure). As for armour, she clearly wears a breastplate :p

One idea I had was to use spring attack and mobility to essentially always stay a little out of combat, provoking AoO whenever enemies close with me. That would fit with the duelist idea quite well.

Hey guys, my current character is based off of this figure.

http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Maika-von-Ostwold.jpg

I saw the figure, thought it was beautiful, and bought it. Now I need to play with it. I'm starting Maika as a new character, but starting at level 2, so, what to do with her...

I see her as a dueling type - a cocky, charismatic city noble that uses speed and skill to win fights, rather than pure brawn (she ain't weak though). Obviously I can't make her a swashbuckler or a duelist with a THW and also medium armour, so I'm stuck with fighter, but i want to make her a bit more fun than your average fighter.

What can I do that would be cool and relatively effective? Not bothered about min maxing or power gaming, but want to be not useless. I'm thinking of getting improved disarm as soon as I can and using that sometimes because it suits her character. Is there anything I can do to specialise her towards one on one combat and duels?

I also want to stick with flavor and character for stats - realistically, she aint gunna have 18 Con, as much as it would be nice. I don't want to use Cha as a dump stat either.

Another option is going more normal monk taking Martial weapon prof(bardiche) and using the bardiche to get AOOs from all the guys that hope to close with you in melee. 17 goes in str, 15 in wis, 13 in con, 12 in dex, if yo ho versatile human you Can get +2 on both str and wis.

Level 1 is weapon prof bardiche and combat reflexes.
Level 2 is improved trip
Level 3 pummeling style.
It is not perfect but it is good fun with flurry in your own turn and AOOs in the bad guys.

I like this idea better actually. I want the 17 in dex, partly for AC, partly for flavour, and it ties in nicely with this build by giving me extra attacks of opportunity.

Also, although the archetype is nice, my group tends to just stick with what we have in the books in front of us. Its easier that way, so sticking with pure core rule book monk would be easier from that perspective.

So, looks like i will be building an AoO build.

Try running him as a sohei. The sohei archetype can get Weapon Training with polearms and flurry with them, making this a great option.

A nifty build would be one with a lot of maneuvers, as reach makes them much more viable, as does using a weapon. Unfortunately you can't "mix" your attacks because a reach weapon, well, engages at distance, while unarmed strikes don't. However, they are a nice option to have if an enemy gets inside that reach and do not require you to drop the bardiche.

They look good - where do I find them?

I have a beautiful figure of a monk wielding a bardich, which I would like to use. I am not after an optimal build - just a fun one. Are there any cool things I can do with non-monk weapons like a bardich, like for instance mix an attack with that with an unarmed attack when I flurry?

The stats I rolled are:

15
17
12
11
13
11

Its not voluntary employment as such. The orc wakes up in an arena about to fight for his life, I think. That's what I have so far anyway, it might change. But essentially it is a random encounter to spice up the city for them that may or may not happen, depending on other choices, and may or may not work, depending on how well they react to the ambush.

1: teleport him? (Igor's 'i wish you were here' card).

2: start a bar drinking contest. everyone who fail enough saves get passed out,sooner or later they will all pass out. and have him wake up in the room with the one who wnat to talk to him.(or better yet, in the BED with her).

3: 'fetch' - have some very big craeture(ROC? or Golem) go(or fly) around the corner and pick him up. ignoring any damage delt to it.
(a variant of this can be a horde of very nasty littile cretures.)

4: sorta 1+3 - telekinesis fetching.

5: cast sugjestion "go to the zoo. enter the empty lion cage and turn left into the tunnle"

something to spice up all of the above. have the npc actuly get him by mistike (maybe he actuly wanted to talk to the wizard? or maybe there is an other orc in town and what ever method used got mixxed up?)

I would rather have the encounter as a fight. They are walking through a seedy part of town when suddenly a group of rough looking fellas emerge from the shadows with nets and spears shouting 'get the animal'.

I will have two net throwers and three crossbowmen with poison bolts (sleep poison, possibly drow) to try and subdue the orc, puls a few fighters to take on the rest of the party and a wizard for some crowd control to try and separate the party. The wizard will be 5th level, so that gives me 3rd level spells to play with. Suggestion 'run away' on the rest of the party is the best idea so far.

It is important to the plot that this particular character is the focus of lots of attention. Im not going to make it a definite kidknap, I will give them the chance to escape. But I think it would be fun for them. The character will be approached various ways first, and the ambush is just if he turns these offers down.

In my next session I want to ambush the party and kidnap one of the characters. Specifically, someone high up in the city takes an interest in the party orc, and wants to speak with him. The party will be 5th / 6th level probably, so how would you go about setting this up in an urban adventure? I dont know the rest of the party make up yet - we just had 3 characters, a friendly construct and an animal companion die after a particularly fraught combat last game, so we need some reinforcements. I do know that the orc will be by far the toughest and the party's main fighter.

I was hoping to take him out with nets, poison bolts (with sleep poison) and stuff like that to immobilize him, and drive the rest of the party off somehow. Are there any low ish level spells I can do to separate them? I.e. wall of wind (but I think they can pass through that). Alternatively I could just make it so that they are outnumbered and have to retreat, but I imagine my party would rather fight to the death than retreat and abandon their beloved orcish friend. Thoughts?

I asked my DM about the option of playing a three quarterling just yesterday (halfling human). Any reason this wouldnt work?

I took con as my main stat for my last character. This time it will be strength. I think I need only go for quite low cha too, if i go for the caster route. He will not be a full caster, so only need like 14 cha.

Thanks guys. I think I will take some levels of barbarian as well then, partly for the access to more weapons, but also for the extra HP, and more importantly, for the rage. Rage, and the rage ability surge of strength, would work perfectly with this build because all together I think I get +6 strength, giving me an expected strength of 26 (hoping I roll high on the stats!) That gives me a pretty hefty bonus +8? to my CMB for trips. Also for flavour. Anyone remember that guy in the pathfinder rule book throwing himself at someone in a bar fight? Yeah, I want to be him.

Another interesting option would be to combine wizard/sorcerer with the brawler, focusing on self buffing spells. It would be quite cool to cast bulls strength on yourself, stride into combat and start throwing people around, shocking grasping as you punch, fireball whenever you need to and then punching again. Plus, that would work better from a flavor point of view for me. Having done muay thai I know just how powerful striking, and particularly knees, are. I imagine a well placed knee (most often to the bladder) would down an opponent wearing padded or chain armour, but plate of any sort would render most options useless. At least if he were an arcane striking brawler I would have a reason in my mind for why his knees are able to pierce metal plates. I know his fists are treated as magic weapons anyway, but I think that is a stupid rule. At least a sorcerer brawler would give me a fluff excuse for why that is.

Also, they synergise quite well (not amazing, but im not a meta gamer so it doesnt matter to me). Light armour combined with the arcane armour feat means ac with no spell failure, plus mage armour, plus possible dragonic natural armour depending on bloodline, plus possible natural attacks for the same reason, plus added strength (bulls strength) for throws and grapples. Best of all, you would never need any equipment ever, and would have high cha, so in theory you could be the face of the party, blend in well, sneak into places unarmed and mess em up. that kind of thing. Brawler means you can take int as a dump stat and still get feats. I guess you might struggle from both MAD and being jack of all trades, but I think it would work, and be fun.

I also just noticed I do not have to be unarmed to trip. That is to grapple. But yes, my first attempt was a puncher (or striker, I do muay thai so I imagined my guy kneeing and elbowing from the clinch, as I find it is more effective than punching). I want this guy to be primarily a weapon weilder who uses throws too to disable his enemies.

Repost

I was wondering how you guys play brawlers. I played one until 3rd or 4th level a few months back, originally as a boxer. The background was that he was an unarmed pit fighter bought and set free, and became an adventurer. I Gave him a ceastus, because that was what he would have fought with, and set about punching my way through a dungeon. I found that as a striker he was pretty sub optimal, having relatively ok chances to hit (although not compared to out strength 22 orc fighter) but low damage (why would the ceastus REDUCE damage from 1 d6 to 1 d4 damage? In the end we house ruled it at 1 d6) or low to hit chance if I uses a flurry of blows meant I did very little. I was also limited to light armour, so my AC was terrible, and despite me taking con as my highest stat I went down several times and eventually bled out. What I did find however is that I could use the trip CMD to great effect, having taken it was my chosen maneuver (and rolling luckily on it too).

I want to try a brawler again, but with a few teaks. Firstly, my biggest problem with the character was the idea of him walking around punching people. You chuck mike tyson into a dungeon, and the first thing that even he will do is pick up a big bit of wood to use as a club. No matter how good he is at striking, he would take a weapon. I quite like having the capability of unarmed combat to use as an off hand weapon, or as a backup, or just as a flavour thing, but I do not think it should be the main focus.

So I want to multiclass in a martial class, probably barbarian or fighter, and take a main weapon. My plan is a big, brutishly strong guy that essentially smashes peoples faces in with a sword or judo throws them onto the floor before caving their heads in. How can I make this work with the -4 penalty to trip attempts if your hands are not free?

How Important is it for you to be good?

we are on the same lines already :D I actually have one of the 'good' council members awaiting a mock trial (read execution) unless the NPC's can save him, another who's family member has been kidknaped as leverage (the NPC's have to go into the slums and get ambushed an angry militia of pick axe weilding, stone throwing thugs in the tight alleyways, with people throwing heavy roof tiles down onto them (2d6 falling damage sound fair? DC 15 reflex save?)), and another who is being besieged in his house by an angry mob, so the PC's have to extract him safely.

But yeah, the golem was just an idea that I wanted to use. I want them to know it is there and have to plan and devise a trap to get rid of it. Maybe not kill it, but keep it out of a fight.

They could also potentially assasinate the baddie. Lots of optns

One way of keeping the powerful goodies out of the mix is that because they are religious fanatics to the god of law (a slightly modified Iomeadea) they wont attack the baddies yet as they have not broken any laws. All they are doing (that anyone can see) is hanging around looking scary. No laws against that. Sure they are murdering and killing in other parts of the city, but noone can prove that.

The backstory for helping the current establishment is that they are long time allies with the adventurers home town fighting a common enemy. If the coup is successful military aid could be withdrawn and the PC's mothers, fathers, cousins, nefews, neighbours, old crushes and the local postman are left to face the oncoming wave of undead from the northern wasteland. Getting them on side is not a problem, thankfully.

Also, the baddies dont really have popular support, they have a very vocal minority, after all who is going to stand up to an armed mob? Raising wages was not a benevolent move, it was a bribe to turn the poorest and most desperate people into a private army he can use as pawns.

I agree, entirely, that more factions are better, but I also want to keep it relatively simple. At the moment the council is actually split, completely. The baddie and his henchmen are both on it, alongside 6 others. 3 of those are strong willed enough to resist him, but are being kept out of the political sphere by force, the other 3 are simply too scared of his enforcers to oppose him unless they have the other 3 on side, so uniting the three noble factions to oppose the baddie is one facet of the quest. But yes, I totaly agree there should be more smaller factions too, I just didnt want it to be the generic 'complete a quest for each leader to earn his trust'

A golembane scarab is not that expensive of an item (at 2,500gp) for 5th lvl characters. I'm not saying you let the whole party run out and buy a set at the nearest magic shop.. but you could place one somewhere? Or, depending on your tastes, have a quick side quest unfold where they get one as a reward.

Maybe instead of a mad wizard's 'plant dog', he has a scarab he will give them - if they can smuggle him out of the city first.

Maybe the golem's creator made one as a precaution and the PCs have to track him or her down?

Maybe your villain has one locked away somewhere (or wears it) and the PCs have to devise a way to steal it?

Just some thoughts.

Awesome. I think I will hide one, or something similar, in the weird plant wizards home, and they have to break in and get past the plan dogs or whatever to get it

I sometime re-do characters for basically this reason:

Had a concept in mind a long time ago but no material came out that came close to the concept then suddenly a new book comes out with what I always wanted to do and I can do it correctly now.

But anyway, I have so many stuffs that I want to play and life is short, so most of the times, I only have redone characters twice so far.

My first was just an experiment, so he was a jack of all trades human. Originally he was going to be a boxer type, but I found that he was sub par at that and that his specialty was in combat maneuvers. My next guy is going to be a straight up judoka, specializing in trips, but I also want to give him a weapon and im not sure what. I imagine him with a 9 ring broad sword, but thats like another character i played for one session :p Also, the -4 to trips with one hand not free is a bastard.

Nets + alchemists fire can take of anything, right?

Yes, pretty much, which is why we tend to eschew playing at high levels. When evryone has super powered items and are teleporting, wielding flaming swords and flying magic carpets things get too much. But I dont know how to avoid using high level stuff in a city encounter, seeing as presumably the most powerful people around are there.

I think the best way around this will be to put a lot of high level scrolls, lots of alchemists fire and all sorts of other stuff they can use in the city, but at prices they cant afford. That way, stealing the items becomes a task for them to complete before they get their hands on them.

But that still raises the question of why cant the city guard deal with this golem. Potentially I could blockade them in a building, maybe by getting the golem to roll a rock into the doorway, but I imagine a 13th level cleric (as high priests are) could find a way out pretty quickly.

My problem is reconciling the demands of the players - a fun low level adventure where they feel like they are powerful - with the demands of the settings - lots of powerful people. Unless of course I just make everyone else weaker. Its not like it really matters if I change the levels I guess, they are only high level priests and stuff for flavor.

josh hill 935 wrote:

... I really want to play a brawler again. I played one for a few sessions before he got squished and was fun, but feel like playing him again would be... cheating almost? Like I have just rehashed the same idea and essentially brought my guy back from the dead.

I probably wouldn't try it again in the same campaign, but if he didn't last long enough for me to feel like i have 'already played the concept' i might try him in the next campaign.

My group generally doesnt have set campaigns. Rather all of the adventures are in the same world, and we just do it adventure by adventure, but generally retire characters at around level 6 and start again. But yeah, my first attempt at a brawler was pretty average and I would like the chance to re do him properly. Problem is all brawlers are quite similar.

No windows, except one large skylight in the roof, but the palace guard ardent going to be happy if they smash that to get in. Not sure on the party yet, but I doubt it, so yes, finding a scroll in the city might be the best bet.

Also, I think im struggling with the city overall. The idea is that it is the capital city of a small empire and is ran by a council of 8 rich guys. There is a small religious order of clerics and paladins that keeps the council members safe and I think these guys need to be pretty powerful, right? These are the core of the city's defense after all, and need to be able to deal with almost anything, other than a full scale invasion (the army would deal with that, but is not in the city).

I think that this city guard would HAVE to be fairly high level, even if there are only a few of them, and could therefore do anything better than the party, and that would mean that the baddies would need to be even more powerful, making the party small fish in a very very big ocean, which isn't much fun for them. I think perhaps I will make it so that the temple / political district is still safe, thanks to the city guard but that they have lost control of the rest of the city which is overrun by militias and mercenaries in the pay of the baddie which melt away when confronted in force. The rest of the city guard, which are not part of the religious order and are just ordinary citizens are scared to oppose them, and some have even joined the mob.

The party would have to restore order in the city proper, before the baddie can use his mobs to intimidate the council into giving him lots of power e.c.t.

I have a PFS character (it was my first actually) that is finally up to 10th level. He is a sorcerer that specializes in using the Summon Monster spells. He also has some good buffs, a few battlefield control, and just a couple of damaging spells. He has quite honestly got a lot of 'mistakes' in his build. He's not horrible and decent tactics have made him a major contributor on a number of occasions.

If I were to make the same concept build now, I would do a lot better at it (even if I just stuck with the same sources).

Similarly, my home game undead blasting life oracle was pretty great. However, I think I could now make him absolutely stellar.

But I probably won't.

With all the umpteen bajillion possibilities of race, class, feat, weapon, spell, archtype, PrC, multiclass, hybrid class, concept, role, etc... I just can't see myself ever going back and re-doing the same basic build.

Right now I don't even want to do another oracle or sorcerer. But if I do I can guarantee I will only consider it if the build and role is completely different.
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But I know a guy that between home games and PFS has built, played, and high leveled 9 characters. Of those he has 2 magi, 5 eldritch knight, a fairly new bloodrager, and a monk (which he doesn't really like).

The basic concept for all those characters (except the monk) is basically the same. A glass cannon, gish warrior, buffs himself to fight almost as well as a pure martial in most fights, then can nova to out damage almost anyone in a single exhausting fight. With a little bit of utility magic tacked on and a few ranged attack spells when melee doesn't work.

He has become a self proclaimed expert on the PF arcane gish warrior (he is honestly really damn good at it). His PC's are really effective both in and out of combat. He is good at shoring up his weaknesses and exploiting his strengths. He basically always kicks the carp out of a scenario, module, or home brew. He and his GM's put all sorts of artificial restrictions on just his PC's so he...

I really want to play a brawler again. I played one for a few sessions before he got squished and was fun, but feel like playing him again would be... cheating almost? Like I have just rehashed the same idea and essentially brought my guy back from the dead.