RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I am completely happy. I'm playing a brawler right now and everything related to my build actually makes him better.
I can use shields as a brawler defensively and not have to worry about losing that dodge bonus. This pushes me off the fence on if I should get him a madu as a secondary weapon. When it isn't in use (90% of the time,) I have something to provide more AC and give me some nice bonuses.
Pummeling Style was amazing as it was, but it was hard to know if I could add in Stunning Fist or Elemental Fist, and because my build has a two level dip in Master of Many Styles I could figure out if Pummeling worked with Jabbing style. Now I can throw in Stunning and Elemental while blending the style with Jabbing for a big hitting combo. I think this is a good trade for losing how critical hits originally worked with the style.
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ugh. UGH.
I am DONE with this. I'll be sticking to either d20pfsrd or playing another system entirely, because I am tired of liking (and shelling out money for!) things that aren't allowed to exist for more than a few months under paizo.
*pats shoulder*
Sacred Fist archetype of Warpriest is what I felt got needed repairs. I wasn't talking about the main class.
they redid a lot of the options that were illegal in PFS, I hope they talked with the PFS people when they did so to make sure the new things are legal, otherwise they just changed them for fun.
I wish we had more clarification on some things. Like what an unoccupied hand is.
really though I didn't expect them to redo so much of the book, I just was expecting them to fix all the unworking things, not change options that worked.
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there is no discussion only tears
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Sacred Fist archetype of Warpriest is what I felt got needed repairs. I wasn't talking about the main class.
whar repairs did he need? It was awesome before, full bab and flurry in armor. now it's at 3/4 bab and no armor. blessed fortitude is like the only perk you get now for going SF instead of normal
Shaman is overall quite happy. But only them.
Sacred Fist archetype of Warpriest is what I felt got needed repairs. I wasn't talking about the main class.
Like I said, I think you need to read it again and notice the part where they took away the full BaB while Flurrying.
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Eldritch scion untouched. I'm pretty disappointed, personally.
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Well, at least Bolt Ace works now...
But yeah, this was kinda not what I was hoping for.
Swashbucklers came out really well in this errata; opportune parry and riposte is now a special thing only they can do, and with the improvements to Divine Protection and Steadfast Personality a Swash that puts an 18 into charisma has three good saves by level 5.
Of course, I am currently playing a Daring Champion, so...
Shaman is overall quite happy. But only them.
MARTIAL CASTER DISPARITY!
k that is my only comment on that subject for this topic.
With the changes to Sacred Fist, I'm rather disappointed that Paizo thinks that you shouldn't be decent with unarmed unless your running around without armour.
With the changes to Sacred Fist, I'm rather disappointed that Paizo thinks that you shouldn't be decent with unarmed unless your running around without armour.
i'm actually kind of okay with this since they're a 2/3 caster, kinda
With the changes to Sacred Fist, I'm rather disappointed that Paizo thinks that you shouldn't be decent with unarmed unless your running around without armour.i'm actually kind of okay with this since they're a 2/3 caster, kinda
But it was the only way to go around with armour and unarmed... Only options for it are 3rd party now.
But it was the only way to go around with armour and unarmed... Only options for it are 3rd party now.With the changes to Sacred Fist, I'm rather disappointed that Paizo thinks that you shouldn't be decent with unarmed unless your running around without armour.i'm actually kind of okay with this since they're a 2/3 caster, kinda
Uh... Brawler? Both the base class and archetype varieties. As well as the Sohei Monk.
You mean besides Brawler and Fighter and any other class that ca take IUS and wear armor?
Be mad at the change because it was pointless and stupid, not because it somehow eliminates fighting unarmed and with armor.
An excerpt from the "Ravingdork's Crazy Character Emporium" thread:
Due to the extensive new errata for the Advanced Class Guide, numerous characters have been modified (almost universally for the worse) to better fit these official changes, as follows:
Alleunti Dilesi - Consume spells now has a daily limit
Bumiahma Britoris Orpheus - Consume spells now has a daily limit
Cúran - Saves significantly reduced due to changes in Divine Protection feat; wolf companion's reach reduced as the reach evolution is no longer a legal option for the Evolved Companion feat.
Enyo Quache - Avenger Finesse and Opportune Parry and Riposte class abilities reworded. Swashbuckler's Finesse has been removed.
Jevicca Dehlonna - Saves significantly reduced due to changes in Divine Protection feat; new Blessing of the Faithful class ability added; Bonded Holy Symbol class ability reworded
Sandalphon - Consume spells now has a daily limit
She'er Falen (arcanist version) - Consume spells now has a daily limit
Several more characters, though they have not had to have their sheets adjusted, nevertheless function very differently now than was originally intended. Dag, for example, can no longer gain the benefits of his animal growth and atavism spells. I think I can safely say that no character using ACG elements was unaffected. The errata was THAT extensive!
In addition, no less than five of our active characters in our playgroup have been affected by the extreme overreach of this errata as well. A whole lot of character concepts and builds have basically been nerfed into oblivion.
Heathcliff, for example, as we knew him is dead. Long may memory of his deeds linger in the minds of those who knew him.
Anyone care to offer advice on how to rebuild him? Since he can no longer use Slashing Grace with shield or weapon in his off-hand, I guess that means he has no less than six feats and a few components of magical gear to swap out.
Please let me know if I missed any other characters who might have been affected by these changes.
Just to give you an idea of how much it is effecting just one play group and, by extension, the hundreds of people who make use of my gallery.
But it was the only way to go around with armour and unarmed... Only options for it are 3rd party now.With the changes to Sacred Fist, I'm rather disappointed that Paizo thinks that you shouldn't be decent with unarmed unless your running around without armour.i'm actually kind of okay with this since they're a 2/3 caster, kinda
i mean... my unchained rogue who uses dex to unarmed strikes disagrees with you but...
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They didn't fix the sleuth, steel hound, wild whisperer, and other archetypes enough/at all to make them viable or not broken. I am assuming this is because of word count or not enough editors on the payroll(it is a business after all, sometimes sacrifices have to be made). I also think that it may be that they spent a lot of time and effort on Occult Adventures to make it almost perfect, which makes me excited to read it once I get it. I do feel that the whole parry and riposte thing is silly.
Uh... Brawler? Both the base class and archetype varieties. As well as the Sohei Monk.
Oh yay, light armour. /End sarcasm/
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My fighter (brawler) wore heavy armor. I'd give that archetype a look...
Doesn't that archetype only have One ability that even affects unarmed, and all that does is a weapon training for close weapons at a faster rate?
I can't find the errata etc..
Where is it located? I looked at FAQ's but I only saw one for advance class guide and it had all of 4 notes.
Contributor
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Doesn't that archetype only have One ability that even affects unarmed, and all that does is a weapon training for close weapons at a faster rate?
My fighter (brawler) wore heavy armor. I'd give that archetype a look...
Faster rate and higher bonus... but, correct. (Still far better than the unarmed fighter archetype.)
A lot more nerding than I expected.
I've got to figure out what to do with my Arcanist (Occultist) since the methods of refilled the arcane reservoir got changed. I would have been alright if they had done something like 3 + Cha Mod times per day. Making it so it is the same for a -7 and a 12 Charisma really seems strange to me.
My sacred Guide has to wait an extra level before getting a teamwork feat. Not a big deal.
I agree that the Eldrich Psion needs fixing. I looked at making one and spell combat doesn't come online until 8th level. Magus tend to want more skills than a Scion is going to be able to afford as well.
Still looking over more of the changes.
So I also feel that there is now less reason to go arcanist over exploiter wizard now that consume spells is so limited.
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Hmmm... I'm sure plenty of people will be happy with Shaman's SNA spells now, although personally I felt SM was more flavor appropriate, and honestly, I would have preferred a host of other flavor appropriate spells that weren't particularly powerful... (including healing type spells besides the Remove Disease, which was basically the minimum needed.)
Curious about Unsworn, it now seems to be a good package, still not compatable with Flexible Hex Feat, but it is superior to that Feat, except in on-the-fly Hex changing. You still can't choose Grand/Major Hexes, but AFAIK you can take Extra Hex Feat and qualify for high level Hexes of your "main" Spirit...? And you seemingly can select "Generic" Shaman Hexes with Minor Spirit, as well as Witch Hexes, or your "main" Spirit's Hexes (+Wandering Spirits' Hexes from 2nd level).
Re:Flexible Hex Feat, it still seems to have the strange function of "favoring" the Wandering Hex, i.e. only allowing switching to a Hex from the Wandering Spirit, although you can select Hexes from your "main" Spirit via normal daily prep (you just can't switch back, once you switch). Also seems to still not allow selecting generic Shaman Hexes, although that could be a flavor thing...?
...They tweaked the skirmisher trick thing a bit for Hunters, but don't seem to have addressed the weird corner cases of how those work for Animal Companions (i.e. since many of them assume the PC/Humanoid master is using them, not the Animal Companion).
Alot of negative response seems fixated on PC-Entitlement issues, i.e. reducing power level of stuff they used in their PC builds (PC Entitlement because you just don't see GMs complaining about such issues for NPCs, despite more NPCs being created than PCs, because they die faster and GMs don't usually have ego transferrence with NPCs to same degree as some players with PCs), but personally I could care less, sure maybe every such tweak isn't ideal, but that goes with the territory.
Overall it does seem disappointing that many issues that people did report in the thread dedicated to the topic don't seem to have been addressed at all, and that goes well beyond subjective judgement calls/opinions of "power level" etc, into stuff that is just broken. That is really disappointing because people put effort into bringing those to Paizo's attention, and Paizo chose to keep a broken product. I feel similarly about their choice to not Errata Summoner spell list even though they acknowledged it as not intended, but then releasing the intended version as "Summoner Unchained" in a new product, i.e. making you buy another product to get Errata. (they obviously chainged other things besides the spell list, but the spell list was self-acknowledged as an error in original product that should have been put out for the original product and it's new print runs, IMHO... instead, the erroneous spell list will continue to be printed) I guess they could address that by putting Unchained Rogue and Summoner into the original Core Rules/APG products in future print runs... Doing that with Unchained Barbarian would cause alot of consternation though, and that was really just an editorial tangent, not "fixing" anything wrong with the original class - IMHO, most experienced players prefer original Barbarian especially with Archetypes etc.
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I was really hoping that Paizo would cave and decide to make the unchained monk more attractive by giving it ki powers that scaled in a respectable way. I guess knee capping the sacred fist to make it harder to play at lower levels is a way to go though.
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Feels like Shield Champion should have gotten more attention than it did, though they did fix a couple of things.
Mostly this makes me sad though. :(
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8 1/2 pages of errata. 140 pages with errors. Every other page in the book has some error. Yikes!!
I love that Paizo fixed this but it's been almost a year. That's a long time for these errors to go uncorrected.
It's too late for me to make a shield brawler that caught my eye when I first bought the book.
Really, the ACG is still banned at my table.
With so many errors, my hard copy is tricky to use and reference, and relying on my PDF in play isn't an option. I'm running the game, and need that for monsters and NPCs, and I'm not sharing my file with my players. And I doubt even 8.5 pages (again, yikes) will fix all my balance issues with the book.
Still, for anyone using the book, I'm glad they have the errata document. And a big ol' kudos to Paizo for getting it out at all. That must have been a fair amount of work.
Arcanist got a minor nerfing will have to look at the class further to see how it now balances..
Shaman got a slight nerf overall but should have definitely gone further.
Restriction of Divine Protection a big plus
Ecclesitheruge unsurprisingly still terrible
Martials bore the brunt (quel suprise!)
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Well, at least Bolt Ace works now...
But yeah, this was kinda not what I was hoping for.
Er... Bolt Ace worked before and got broken by this errata. It's unplayable at high levels now that you can't use Signature Deed for Sharp Shoot.
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Spell warrior skalds got a needed clarification so they could use rage powers.
I'm a little disappointed that some things which could have used a tap with a nerf bat were hammered into the ground by a shrieking barbarian with a greatclub though. Shades of Crane Wing.
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Paizo doesn't really understand stand the subtle art of nerfing. They identify a problem, then say "F$~@ everything!" and make it as worthless as possible so they never have to touch it again.
I haven't had a chance to read over the errata in a side by side with the book yet, but what I've seen in it so far makes me glad that I have an Adventure Path ACG.
Didn´t get through all of it, but it seems to me this errata needs some explanation on a lot of things.
Don´t take this as a need to defend it, but more on actual transparancy and getting people on board with decisions and design politics played here.
Probably several blog posts after GenCon would be the best way to go.
Personaly i don´t understand some decisions made. In my play experience, many of those things weren´t actually that problematic or out of powercurve, but enabled things and playstyles that were suboptimal before to become fun.
Arcanists for example are still very strong, yet the possibility to rely on some exploits and using those as the main playstyle has been severyl hampered. So instead of somehow limiting very strong exploits, all exploits have been limited. Using the direct damage exploits as a main thing therefore turned from a weaker but fun option to a more bad option.
Man, practically nobody was taking the Elf favored class bonus for Arcanist before. Now I see absolutely no reason at all to take it. With the new Charisma limitations, you'd never hit your maximum anyways.
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As someone who doesn't own the book, I do find the errata situation hilarious.
After the book was released, we had people proclaiming the book was horrible, needed errata right now, and was proof that Paizo was going to pot and they would never ever purchase a product from the company again.
Some people continued with that attitude through much of next year, demanding early release of errata.
And then, we got early release of errata, and people are angry, proclaiming this renders the book horrible, Paizo is going to pot, and they are never going to purchase a product from the company again.
Now I know that doesn't describe everyone, and I know the ACG had probably the worst editing issues of any hardcover, but I can't help but be "amused" by "just can't win" nature of the situation.
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They actually did fix the wide variety of problems with things that simply didn't work as written. And they nerfed a variety of things that the community was largely in agreement were overpowered. And then they kept going, and nerfed a whole lot of stuff that was actually well liked.
Uh... Brawler? Both the base class and archetype varieties. As well as the Sohei Monk.Oh yay, light armour. /End sarcasm/
I want an unarmed character in real armour.
Or mithral medium armor. Like a lot of classes use.
If you don't have any special rules forbiding light armor, then pretty much anyone can use a mithral breastplate- and without needing medium armor profiency for it.
Just use armor expert- it reduces armor check penalty to 0 for a mithral breastplate, which removes any negative effects of not being proficient in your armor.
In the end, that leaves brawler with good AC with its scaling bonus and the sohei...well, I am not using that archetype to tank, I use it for the ton of extra attack/damage options (and I might go with actual light armor just to get brawling armor- +2 attack/damage over +2 ac, basically). Armor for sohei is more simplification and allowing you to survive early on without turtling up your stats.
Faster rate and higher bonus... but, correct. (Still far better than the unarmed fighter archetype.)Doesn't that archetype only have One ability that even affects unarmed, and all that does is a weapon training for close weapons at a faster rate?
My fighter (brawler) wore heavy armor. I'd give that archetype a look...
Directly, pretty much little else for unarmed
Indirectly, it is a lockdown master, allowing you to make stand still fairly powerful both in its bonus and ability to use it against...most forms of movement trying to escape you (due to the appropriately named no escape ability).
So making sure enemies can't get away is nice for getting full attacks off at least, which is usually fairly important for the TWF heavy unarmed builds. While pummeling charge can somewhat solve mobility issues, it actually got changed with this errata- from what I've been told, when you use it for a charge, it is no longer gets that stupid good critical rules anymore. So locking an enemy down does help you out a lot.
Personal note- if the crit stuff had hypothetically been removed entirely from pummeling style with this errata, I would not miss it much. Too much of a distraction from the feats' real appeal- clustershot and mobility to solve the main problems of unarmed builds. That alone is enough to make them optimal choices.
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True, and while my initial impulse is to not like it, the truth is I have not yet had the time to really play with a lot of the things yet to see how it works, and there is far too much of an errata dump at once to have a really good grasp of it all.
I think most people are just tunnel visioning on the few things that really (might) affect them or one of their friends rather than taking it all in. It doesn't really help, however, just how poorly the entire book has been received from the start.