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First thing I have to not is that this is in regards to Society play.
People at my local lodge have apparently been complaining that he bulldozes everything.
Apologies for the messy presentation, first time posting a character.
Rook : Level 9 Crossblooded Rageshaper bloodrager
Half-Orc, Silver Crusade
Str :22-26 while raging
Dex :12
Con :14-18 while raging
Int : 8
Wis :10
Cha :14
Hp : 94-112 while raging Dr : 1/-
Ac : 23-21 while raging
Initiative + 5
Fort : 13-15 while raging
ref : 9
Will : 10
Bab +9
Attacks while raging : +16/+11 +3 greatsword 2d6+27 17-20 or 2 claws +13/+13 2d6+16
Feats : Power attack, Reckless Rage, Iron will, Improved Initiative, Additional traits, Abberant tumor : hedgehog, Improved critical : Greatsword, toughness
Traits : Third eye, blighted physiology, fate's favored, affable
Special : 30 ft cone breathweapon 9d6 fire damage Dc18 reflex for half once per day
Abberant reach : reach increased by 5 while raging
Draconic Claws
Spells Lvl 1 : 3/d : Enlarge person, shield, expeditious retreat,
Cheetach sprint, touch of the sea, Monkey fish
Lvl 2 : 2/d : Scorching Ray, Iron skin, Mirror image, False Life
See invisability.
gear : +1 Furious Greatsword, +2 breastplate, Cloak of resist +3
Bracers of many Garments, Ring of protection +1, Jingasafortunate
,Headband of alluring charisma +2, 16074 gold
Is he that strong?
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Doesn't look as optimized as I would've expected from what you're saying. You're obviously focusing on a Greatsword but you've got claws and the rageshaper archetype. Carrying a weapon as a backup is one thing, spending feats on it when you've got a class-given weapon and an archetype to improve it is another (or vice versa).
Also, your will save appears to be way too high.
Base lvl 9: +3
Wisdom: +0
Iron Will: +2
Crossblooded: -2
Cloak of Resist: +3
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Total: +6.
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Doesn't look as optimized as I would've expected from what you're saying. You're obviously focusing on a Greatsword but you've got claws and the rageshaper archetype. Carrying a weapon as a backup is one thing, spending feats on it when you've got a class-given weapon and an archetype to improve it is another (or vice versa).
Also, your will save appears to be way too high.
Base lvl 9: +3
Wisdom: +0
Iron Will: +2
Crossblooded: -2
Cloak of Resist: +3
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Total: +6.
I have fate's favored with sacred tattoo so thats another +2
and my hedgehog familliar gives a +2 untyped bonus on will savesso that amounts to +10
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Doesn't look as optimized as I would've expected from what you're saying. You're obviously focusing on a Greatsword but you've got claws and the rageshaper archetype. Carrying a weapon as a backup is one thing, spending feats on it when you've got a class-given weapon and an archetype to improve it is another (or vice versa).
Also, your will save appears to be way too high.
Base lvl 9: +3
Wisdom: +0
Iron Will: +2
Crossblooded: -2
Cloak of Resist: +3
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Total: +6.I have fate's favored with sacred tattoo so thats another +2
and my hedgehog familliar gives a +2 untyped bonus on will saves
so that amounts to +10
Yup, you're right, I missed those in all the text. You could be doing a lot more. You're just doing what bloodragers do. It sounds like other people just have a problem with classes that hit hard.
One thing that may make a difference (a small difference). The reach from your abberant reach isn't doubled with enlarge person. Enlarge person only doubles your natural reach. So whether you're large or medium, it's still only a +5.
Not really. Reckless Rage really isn't a good feat. It doesn't scale like Power Attack does, and is only a -1 to attack +3 damage (when two handing). And it requires power attack, which is in all ways better. It's really not worth the feat.
You also took the Additional Traits feat, which is probably also a waste of a feat. I can't find third eye or blighted physiology.
Affable isn't really necessary for you character, though fate's favored is good for a half-orc.
You're really not that optimized.
Doesn't seem like anything out of the ordinary for a raging person.
You started with a 20 in your main stat and took Fate's Favored.
Just that is enough to start the complaining from some people.
I think the character is just fine. He embodies the archetype of the Big Stupid Fighter very well. He has good defenses, does lots of damage, and has very little narrative power. I would love to have someone playing a character like this at almost every table I play (the exception being it stinks to have only characters like this.)
Perhaps this is just the first example of how good the two handed weapon fighting style is at mid to high level that they have seen. Two weapon fighting, one handed weapon, and sword and board all fall off around this level without optimization. Big hitters, archers, and casters rule the mid to late game without optimization.
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Not really. Reckless Rage really isn't a good feat. It doesn't scale like Power Attack does, and is only a -1 to attack +3 damage (when two handing). And it requires power attack, which is in all ways better. It's really not worth the feat.
You also took the Additional Traits feat, which is probably also a waste of a feat. I can't find third eye or blighted physiology.
Affable isn't really necessary for you character, though fate's favored is good for a half-orc.
You're really not that optimized.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blighted%20Physi ology
Correction about third eye, its actually mutant eye
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mutant%20Eye
Is it causing issues for other members of the party? If so, the answer is probably yes.
That's really the main criteria for if someone is too strong. Forum people outside of your main group can't tell you the answer, just give vague approximations. But your main group is the test for if it's too strong, and if they are complaining it is, that's a pretty decent indication that there is a difference in expectations of what the powerlevel of the game should be.
All that said, you have about 6 points of DPR lower than a CRB only fighter at 9th level, while having vastly more utility.
So there's that.
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I found blighted philosophy from people of the river but I also can't find Third Eye. What is this trait?[Edit: Ok Mutant eye]
Other than that this character seems fine. He can't fly. Can't Pounce. Has some decent reach when he wants to. Maybe throws a single breath attack at something further away.
Surprised he doesn't have boots of speed. Another attack when you only have 2 is 50% more damage (plus bonuses).
It's for PFS so there's not really a "too strong" tough for them you have a good character.
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I think the friction comes more from me as a person than anything else, I am what you call extremely explosive, and tend to overpower everyone else at the table, i've talked to one of my fellow players about this and am going to keep it in and try to put that energy into my character instead.
I am also what is know as a 'tactical genius' 'cough'took twen'cough'door no lock'cough' and my lodge knows how that ended...
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As one of his fellow players/sometimes GM, allow me to explain:
First off, he's a damage monster. Probably inherent to being a Bloodrager/Barbarian, so can't really fault him there, but things just get completely murderised in his vicinity. I've tried several times to see where his +27 damage comes from, but I can't find it. I'm sure it's all fine, but he just overshadows every other player. Most monsters barely survive a single round when he's around.
Again, that's fine, that's what Bloodragers do.
He took a lot of care to up his WILL as much as possible. This is supposed to be one of the Bloodrager's "weak" spots, but he shrugs off every magical attack
That too is fine. He's sacrificed a lot to do this, which could've gone into upping his damage output more.
Aberrant bloodline increases his reach a lot. Things die even before it can touch the group.
Not that big of a deal in its own right, but it feels anticlimactic.
Then there's the spell support, which allows him to do some crazy stuff. Can't recall anything at the moment, but being able to cast Shield on the fly makes him even harder to hit.
And maybe this is a bit too personal, so I apologise if I hurt your feelings, but Rook isn't much of a team player. I don't know if it's in-character's fault or out-of-character, but Rook doesn't cooperate much with the rest of the group. He runs ahead, carelessly triggering traps or smashing things to pieces, and complains when there's too much role-playing because he's bored and wants more combat.
In short, this build maybe isn't too powerful, but he's a bit of a thunder-stealer and moodkiller. The majority are class features I can't fault him for, but when I've prepped a big fight and Rook kills everything flat in one round, it leaves me (and part of the rest of the table) feeling unfulfilled. Me because I couldn't use the tricks up my sleeve (which is part of being a GM, so no big deal), but the rest of the group because they can't do their thing. Add to that the fact that he's almost untouchable, and it also makes him hard to punish him for his actions. He shrugs off Will saves with ease, soaks damage like a champ, and kills everything before it can hurt him. All his features are perfectly fine on their own, but once you add them together, they start to grind on you. The fact that he overshadows people in real life as well means that once Rook's player gets excited, he's hard to calm down.
Rook, in all honesty, your character is fine (although a little on the strong side). But I'd appreciate it if you'd show a little more consideration to the rest of the table. My apologies for saying this through this medium rather than to your face, but I'm a lot more eloquent this way.
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@ Quentin Coldwater
I'ts no problem, Good oll Naggy and Dizzy already informed me about it and you have my word that I will change for the better, I'd rather not play at all then ruin your pathfinder society experience.
And to note the +27 damage : +12 from power attack, +12 from strength, and +3 from my furious weapon =27
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You started with a 20 in your main stat and took Fate's Favored.
He only hit 20 in his main stat (str) when he raged and then it was 22.
Currently he has
16 (base)
2 (racial)
1 (lvl 4)
1 (lvl 8)
2 (enhancement via belt)
*4 (morale when bloodraging)
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22 (*26 when bloodraging) (so subtract 4 from these at lvl 1 for 18 and *22)
If starting with 18 in a str for a character that is supposed to smash faces is a reason for complaint then almost every single should be complained about (oddly enough the only character I can think of that I haven't started with a stat at 18 is my bloodrager).
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Your stats look a bit off. It looks like you started with a pre-racial 18, 12, 14, 8, 10, 12, which is 24 points. A starting 17 strength would be a 20 point buy but then your strength would only be 21 after +2 racial and +2 level advancement. Is there another point I'm missing?
Also Monkey fish doesn't work when you're wearing breastplate so it's a bit odd as a spell choice.
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Your stats look a bit off. It looks like you started with a pre-racial 18, 12, 14, 8, 10, 12, which is 24 points. A starting 17 strength would be a 20 point buy but then your strength would only be 21 after +2 racial and +2 level advancement. Is there another point I'm missing?
Also Monkey fish doesn't work when you're wearing breastplate so it's a bit odd as a spell choice.
I started with: ( without racial bonus)
Str 17Dex 12
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 12
Looking back at it, it could have been a lot better, pretty much wasting points and a +1 increase.
And thanks for the tip on monkey fish
You started with a 20 in your main stat and took Fate's Favored.He only hit 20 in his main stat (str) when he raged and then it was 22.
Currently he has
16 (base)
2 (racial)
1 (lvl 4)
1 (lvl 8)
2 (enhancement via belt)
*4 (morale when bloodraging)
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22 (*26 when bloodraging) (so subtract 4 from these at lvl 1 for 18 and *22)
Perhaps, but a belt isn't listed in the gear section of the build. There is probably a simple error in the posting of the build, happens all the time on the forums.
Pretty good build, but I wouldn't call it broken. Nice damage for the level.
Personally, I would have focused on either natural weapons OR held weapon, but to each their own.
Some of this is just the nature of PFS gaming.
In general PFS isn't dangerous enough to really need to be all that optimized for combat. (Yes, I know there are exceptions.) So there tend to be lots of PC's that are not terrifically optimized for combat. Either because they can't optimize very well or chose not to so that there will be a challenge.
For example: In my local PFS area many similar martial characters would have only started with a 16 strength and put the extra into intelligence to get more skill points. That makes the character a bit more versatile in non-combat situations, yet it still performs well enough in combat for PFS needs.
Plus in PFS, the GM isn't allowed to do much to compensate for a 'high damage' character at the table, such as might be possible in a home game.
Although you aren't optimized to the Nth degree - you do have a full BaB class, rage, max str, THW (which is the easiest style with which to do lots of damage), etc...
So you probably are doing quite a bit more damage in melee combat than many PFS players are used to seeing.
But I wouldn't call it unreasonably too much damage, just noticeably higher damage.
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He's barely doing more than Crowe. His defensive stats are a bit better but I would expect them to be. I'm a bit disappointed if someone shows up and is worse at their role than the pregen is.
I mean Crowe is a pretty good pregen for hitting things. I love playing him when the party needs some damage but he certainly isn't the bar for PC optimization.
It sounds like the character is (maybe) 1% of the problem, and showing respect for your fellow players is 99% of the problem.
You want everyone at the table to be having fun. If you complain about being bored when they're trying to roleplay, that's not fun for the other players. Remember, the point of the game is not just to stomp imaginary monsters, it's to have fun and socialize. So, just try to be more considerate and patient, and I guarantee you any complaints will go away.
Only 26 str by lvl 9 is not too strong. My current character hit 30 str at lvl 3.
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I think the friction comes more from me as a person than anything else, I am what you call extremely explosive, and tend to overpower everyone else at the table, i've talked to one of my fellow players about this and am going to keep it in and try to put that energy into my character instead.
I am also what is know as a 'tactical genius' 'cough'took twen'cough'door no lock'cough' and my lodge knows how that ended...
That's big of you to say. Some of the friction I have felt at my own tables must be my fault as well. And as I was saying, it's probably my fault even if it isn't.
It's hard as a player to let go of things your character shouldn't know. You might really be a tactical genius, but your character isn't. But you don't always want to be playing tactical genius characters, do you? Sometimes it's fun to be the character who just runs up and delivers pain.
The tactical genius part was meant to be sarcastic, I did some REALLY dumb things, some things so bad that about 4 characters and 20 levels later they still remember.
Eh, how overpowered a character is is relative to the strength of your fellow party members. I had no qualms about taking a drow noble one game because a friend of mine made this half ogre half dragon vampire abomination thing.
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Rage is a morale bonus. Add a wand of Moment of Greatness (2 Prestige to obtain) and have the party caster activate it. Double your rage bonus each time they activate the wand.We may have a team of three characters in my area who do this. It's amazing what a level 3 half orc will do to a scenario with 30+ strength. It's even more amazing when it's two such half orcs and their cleric 'boss'
You might want to re-look at how Moment of Greatness works.
You might want to re-look at how Moment of Greatness works.
Rage is a morale bonus. Add a wand of Moment of Greatness (2 Prestige to obtain) and have the party caster activate it. Double your rage bonus each time they activate the wand.We may have a team of three characters in my area who do this. It's amazing what a level 3 half orc will do to a scenario with 30+ strength. It's even more amazing when it's two such half orcs and their cleric 'boss'
yes a one time bonus like that is hardly worth the casters action.
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The tactical genius part was meant to be sarcastic, I did some REALLY dumb things, some things so bad that about 4 characters and 20 levels later they still remember.
That tends to annoy people more than actual tactical geniuses.
I don't know if it's in-character's fault or out-of-character, but Rook doesn't cooperate much with the rest of the group. He runs ahead, carelessly triggering traps or smashing things to pieces, and complains when there's too much role-playing because he's bored and wants more combat.
Putting the safety or success of your party in jeopardy because you're bored is a jerk move. And complaining about (or worse, sabotaging) social or exploratory scenes may come across as demanding that everything take place on your terms. You built your character for combat so there must be as much combat as possible - taking the spotlight off those characters who invested more resources in scouting, trapfinding, or diplomacy. For some people that's even more frustrating than the in-game consequences.
As one of his fellow players/sometimes GM, allow me to explain:
First off, he's a damage monster. Probably inherent to being a Bloodrager/Barbarian, so can't really fault him there, but things just get completely murderised in his vicinity. I've tried several times to see where his +27 damage comes from, but I can't find it. I'm sure it's all fine, but he just overshadows every other player. Most monsters barely survive a single round when he's around.
Again, that's fine, that's what Bloodragers do.He took a lot of care to up his WILL as much as possible. This is supposed to be one of the Bloodrager's "weak" spots, but he shrugs off every magical attack
That too is fine. He's sacrificed a lot to do this, which could've gone into upping his damage output more.Aberrant bloodline increases his reach a lot. Things die even before it can touch the group.
Not that big of a deal in its own right, but it feels anticlimactic.Then there's the spell support, which allows him to do some crazy stuff. Can't recall anything at the moment, but being able to cast Shield on the fly makes him even harder to hit.
And maybe this is a bit too personal, so I apologise if I hurt your feelings, but Rook isn't much of a team player. I don't know if it's in-character's fault or out-of-character, but Rook doesn't cooperate much with the rest of the group. He runs ahead, carelessly triggering traps or smashing things to pieces, and complains when there's too much role-playing because he's bored and wants more combat.
In short, this build maybe isn't too powerful, but he's a bit of a thunder-stealer and moodkiller. The majority are class features I can't fault him for, but when I've prepped a big fight and Rook kills everything flat in one round, it leaves me (and part of the rest of the table) feeling unfulfilled. Me because I couldn't use the tricks up my sleeve (which is part of being a GM, so no big deal), but the rest of the group because they can't do their thing. Add to that the fact that he's almost...
What you want is to throw mobs at him. Crowd up his charging lane with minor monsters that he does a lot of wasted damage to; then your big boss will have the time to do whatever cool things you wanted him to do, and the other players will have time to see it and fight it.
The ease of building a character like Rook is a large part of why single-creature fights do not work well in Pathfinder.
EDIT: Crap, completely looked over the fact that this is Society play. This is really one of the weaknesses of the system (or rather, a weakness of the scenario writers...).
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Yes, your character is overpowered - especially in an environment like PFS.
This character isn't even close to overpowered. As I said higher up in the thread he isn't even necessarily better than Crowe the Bloodrager pregen if they were the same level.
This character literally walks up to things and hits them. No insult meant to OP (the character has good defensive stats while still dealing damage) but this tactic isn't exactly a high tier character option and is about as tame as pathfinder gets.