Balazar

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Just...don't kill them. Play with them for a while, and they'll begin to trust you to defend them. I do suggest taking a somewhat overprotective role at the outset, then just help them ease into their niches in the group. If they're squishy then you probably mean spell casters or a rogue. If that's the case, make it clear that, in a direct fight between you and them, you're supposed to win. If they think you're much stronger then them with no idea that you're supposed to be so, then naturally they'll be on edge. Some specific classes would be good to know though, so please provide them if you would. If this is your first campaign together, then once this campaign is over, assuming you haven't done something horrible, they will probably take your optimization fairly good naturedly from then on. I actually suggest making this a fairly short campaign, if it's your first time working with them. Make this campaign an acclimation period. From an actual game perspective, I very much suggest that you get some protection against control type spells. You know the type:charm, domination, just mind control spells generally. If you're that confident you could beat them all in a fight, and the GM knows this, then if they're a good GM they'll likely try to control you and turn you against the party at some point.


There are probably plenty of magical items that can give you polymorphing capabilities, an example being the cloak of the manta ray. Obviously a manta ray isn't the type of form you want, but there are other items with the same capabilities, just more useful forms.


Some ghost touch weaponry...? Also, something to defend against mind control, possession, you get the idea. It's way to much of a demon/spirit stereotype for the DM to not use it at some point. Also, did you mean demons in the literal sense, or evil extraplanar beings in general, like devils and daemons?
Changes the situation a lot depending on the answer.


Also, what does everyone else think of concentrating on getting some grappling evo's and feats, like grab, sticky etc. after I sort all of this out? It seems like a good idea
with the biped normal strength and the boost I'll get on it and combat maneuvers when I go large, and like I said, it's a long campaign an I think I can afford to focus on a few different atrributes. Still, like I said, I don't know if it's a good idea
With my lack of experience, so some input would be nice.


Thanks for the help guys. I do rather like the idea of improving my reach toa degree that it is nearly unavoidable, but I'm going to avoid getting huge. It's to many EV points when I can do perfectly fine with simply getting large. Lunge is a feat, as are improved natural attack and improved natural armor, correct?


Yeah, that was kind if my plan. My GM is fairly experienced, so he would avoid AoO's from my eidolon. I was kind if counting on this, and having my eidolon sort of stand in a position that prevents our opponents from getting at most if our party, which are a bow ranger, a gunslinger, myself, a sorcerer, and the monk I mentioned earlier. By creating this....bubble I guess, he can sort of keep combat centered on himself and our monk and prevent and "Go after the squishy ones!" Shenanigans. Combat reflexes does in fact sous quite good, so thanks for that Raymond.


Oh, and I'm planning to concentrate on natural attacks.


Sorry for not providing more info earlier. My eidolon is a biped, and I'm an APG summoner. This far I have had my eidolon take improved natural armor, improved natural attack (Slam) the slam evolution, the reach evolution, and I'm now saving up to get large.


So, long story short, myself and my party just reached level 3 (Killed a mad lich and his undead kobold army, stereotypical stuff). I am playing a summoner, and I am trying to decide on some good possible feats for now and for the future. It's going to be a veeery long campaign, like level 20 long, so I put a lot of thought into my eidolons build. Since our only front-line fighter is an oread monk, I'm making my eidolon completely combat heavy. However, as is evidenced by the fact that I'm playing a summoner, I have no clue what good feats for a melee class are. He took a feat that gives him an additional EV point (My Dm's a cool guy and agreed that it didn't have to be me taking it) and I took the best all rounder: Improved initiative, but beyond that I'm not really sure what sort of feat I should nab. I'm considering toughness, because hit points are an obvious plus, lunge, because reach is king, and power attack, because, well, it seemed good, however, I'm not sure if these're solid choices or not. Thank you for any assistance in advance. Oh yeah, I'm playing a gnome, with the necromancy type alternate racial spell like abilities. I like gnomes, and the summoner racial boost seemed solid for a combat eidolon.


Eh, how overpowered a character is is relative to the strength of your fellow party members. I had no qualms about taking a drow noble one game because a friend of mine made this half ogre half dragon vampire abomination thing.


Regarding your first feat build, I don't know if I'd go with craft wondrous item. With two other primary casters, it seems likely at least one of them would take it, and if you needed an item you could just pay them the cost of the materials to have it crafted. I would check with the people playing casters as to whether they're going to take it before you definitely make it a feat you take.


Acquire something that can plane shift with you , like a dragon horse or something?


I also agree with Gustavo's analysis of the situation with your AnC. With that many other party members, he won't really need to be a tank or a hold down the line fighter. He'll serve better as a tricky fighter, getting trips, flanking, in turn defending the flanks of his companions, in the regard I say a wolf serves rather well. Like I said earlier, he has scent out of combat as well. Also, if your leery about a familiar taking up combat space, familiars aren't really built for combat, so I'd recommend keeping him out of battle period unless you get improved familiar, in which case I suggest you get a ratling or something with some good ranged attacks on it (My personal favorite is the tide pool dragon by miles) and have it sit out of combat for the most part, throwing spells and ranged stuff at the enemy. Again I recommend the ratling and the tide pool dragon, as the former can use any scrolls you guys don't need, and the latter because it's surprisingly good in combat if you end up in a do or die situation.


Yeah, let's leave off the debate on paleontology, lest we defeat the point of this thread. Also, though my phone died before I could correct myself last night, the study of dinosaurs, or more specifically fossils, is in fact paleontology, not archeology. Regarding the thread itself, don't worry about getting two moves with your AnC and yourself. The full casters could just as easily summon up help. Besides that, I can 't say I know a whole lot about melee feats, etc. I tend to play primary casters, my favorite being the summoner. Like I believe was said earlier in the thread, with that many hit points losing toughness shouldn't be an issue if you want to get it replaced.


Technically speaking, birds are the descendants of dinosaurs, more specifically, dinosaurs such as archaeopteryx, which had limited gliding capabilities and primitive wings. Archeology's my thing :) Plus I seriously doubt the roc is a descendant of a creature that's still hanging around to be ridden by rangers and druids.


You could probably just cast it before you shapeshift either way. Also, isn't their a feat, wild casting or something, that lets you cast spells or use magic while using wild shape? That would probably suffice if you decide that you can't activate it while in animal form.


Out of curiosity, what are your other party members? Also, as far as this cloak of fangs goes, I think you would have the activated ability stack with the fangs of whatever animal you happen to become (This power obviously wouldn't work on birds, or other toothless creatures). Also, since you seemed to think that a roc was a dinosaur of some sort, just to tell you, a roc is a massive bird.


Take it as seriously as you want. Like I said, technically speaking you can, but logically speaking you shouldn't be able to.


Technically speaking, you can go shopping wherever, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Like that shop keeper right outside the door to the boss.


True. But you don't necessarily need to get it at level 1, just to help out a bit before level 4


The idea is simply to fill the gap with whatever kinds little tricks you can until level 4, when you can fight efficiently. What's the story behind this kobold? I'm curious.


A bow's not a bad choice, but you might need something else to go with it if you aren't investing in any feats. Maybe tip it with a cheap poison? A crossbow is a fairly solid choice as well. You should also just tell you party buddies that they may need to hold down the fort until you reach level 4 beforehand so they're ready for this.


I only suggested allosaurus and roc because they take the highest stat choices overall. You can just as easily pick other awesome animal companions to fill different niches. Having a (Anaconda? Python? Can't remember) just for its constrict can be pretty fun, especially if you're a melee Druid. He can incapacitate enemies while you whale away at them with your shillelagh. Wolf's also a decent choice even at higher levels with its trip ability, and even a small winged companion can be fun for dive bombing and catching food for the party. Also, like I said. Certain other companions like bats and wolves have senses even your ranger and slayer won't have access to, like blindsight and scent for navigating in lightless areas or spotting concealed or invisible enemies.


Yeah, I never really got that view of Druids either. Anyways, while I may not be able to offer very good advice in the field of melee (I'm a primary caster type of guy) it seems like, if your going to go melee yourself, then you should concentrate your animal companions on stealth or sensory capabilities for scouting, like a bat. This suggestion is irrelevant if you already have a scouty type like a ranger or a rogue. If that's the case, then I suggest you take a wolf at the start, and an allosaurus or roc later. The roc has the highest stats in the mid levels, and the allosaurus has the highest stats when in the upper echelons of levels. I'm also pretty sure you can ride both of those when they hit their large size.


Someone intentionally played a bard or monk for 8 AP? Is your party a bunch of greenhorns? Could you tape this, because it's going to be hilarious! XD


It's a fairly viable class, since having so many summon monsters guarantee's that you will be a force to be reckoned with in every encounter. The only difference between the eidolon and summoned monsters is that the eidolon is more versatile, and can evolve to be whatever you may need him to be, whereas your summoned monsters are stuck within tight constraints.


If they decide to pull the pin (Flip the switch, pull the trigger, take your pick) then I'd just invite them to deal with the consequences themselves. Frankly they're likely going to , and your character will become an npc who may or may not become a recurring villain. When this happens, you should (And by extension your rerolled character) back out and let them deal with it, laughing your head off when this guy comes back to haunt them. In the short term it'll piss them off, but in any future campaigns they sure as hell won't screw with any future volatile characters you come up with.


Without prior preparation, the best solution is to incapacitate or separate your brawler from combat via hold person, wall spells, etc.


They won't be as formidable as full animal companions at higher levels, but a griffon is still a griffon, and a axebeak is still an axebeak.


You could literally just buy the animals. Hell, you can buy an axebeak, a griffon, a stirge, you name it.


Oh wait, you playing chained or unchained?


Hmmm, this is an interesting idea. I tend to play a fairly generic summoner, with my eidolon tanking and me buffing him and casting, so I don't know how much help I'll be in this. If he's gonna be your UMD buddy then I advise the ability score boost evolution to charisma. In addition, if he's not going to be entering the melee then he can take a few of the spell-like abilities evolutions. One thing I always do at later levels with my eidolon is give him sacrifice and fast healing and concentrate quite a bit on my eidolons con score. This can help greatly with healing since the cleric or whatever type of healer you use won't be needed to use up spells to heal you once imminent threats are gone.


I guess a badger launcher could be used to spring traps... Hmmmmm....


Or in lieu of buying squirrels, get one of those bags of tricks or whatever the bags full of rodents are called.


Buy a bunch of small expendable rodents, like squirrels, and toss them through door ways, or slide them down hallways? Hell, you could make a game out of that! Besides, squirrels only cost a few gold.


Not a whole lot if options besides. Finger of death can be a killer, so can disintegrate, but neither's save or die.


This ones 2 levels outta your level range, but power word kill would get the job done.


Phantasmal killer ftw. If you don't make the save you die. If you do make the save you still take 3d6 damage. The drawback is if the target has telepathy they can deflect it back at you. Otherwise you're fine.


Guide to disarming magical traps: Throw the meat shield at it and take cover. Or you could toss debris. Tossing the meat shield at it is much funner though.


I didn't really read the thread before by the way. Love the grenade metaphor being tossed around though.


Sounds like you need a full caster my friend. If your sorcerers dropping levels in paladin your gonna need another full caster, be it arcane or divine. Maybe an Aasimar? You seem to be going for fun races. Fetchling? Dhampir? On a more general note, if your not in the mood for a full caster go for something with some range on it, like a gunslinger or a bow and arrow ranger.


I dunno, threaten to kill yourself if they try and lift the curse? Ok, this probably won't work since you can just roll a new character, but surely your friendly rogue recognizes what he was like previously and what he'll become if he is released, so wouldn't he inform his companions of this? On another note, isn't he still his usual evil self? All the curse did was make him fall in love with the priestess, right?


True cap, but I mean if they plan for the future. Plus it's not horrible at level 1, just not the strongest choice, and it gets strong fast.


Although, if you want to make the eidolon super overpowered, go with the baby hecatonceirs or whatever it's called build and just get arms evolutions, which gives your eidolon a ridiculous number of attacks.


I'm all for summoners. They're my favorite class for a number of reasons. First off, the eidolon is supremely versatile. You can adapt them to whatever the campaigns background is, and while they are considerably weaker then a martial pc, they are markedly stronger then summons or animal companions. While the summoner is a secondary caster, and in turn has far fewer spells then any primary spellcaster, the summoner spell list is also both versatile and potent, making up for much of the spellcasting lost. In the end, while I wouldn't say that the summoner is a big damage dealer or a tank, it can fill multiple roles at once with a good amount of effectiveness .


Also, I find that having the other players control their friends character doesn't tend to turn out that well. Whenever my buddies do that with my character, my character tends to develop a reckless streak.


I like your way of thinking quibble! That said, I could see the cleric getting a little extra exp on the side, since he technically killed it alone, but I also agree that the party should have gotten a equal amount of exp, discounting the bonus.


Aw, he's morally good? Damn. There's goes the torturing info out of any Assassins he captures by killing it's assassin friends horribly in front of it.

Edit: And or putting that whole alchemist idea to use and warping and mutating them before killing them.


Sure, you could become a cloning alchemist or become a statue or whatever, but why do so so if you aren't actually required to? Using my option allows you to give some versatility to the character, instead of centering him around this power.


I'd advise some of your suggestions earlier (Monk, paladin, etc.) But as opposed to all the bloody overkill magical cloning and such, you could just have him employ a few proxies, to travel in his place. Could use a hat of disguise, illusion spells, whatever. I mean, being a diplomat he would have to visit some places personally, but for the trip in between, or any situations that require little to no diplomacy, he can just have a proxy play the part of himself, quietly watching the throne from a good ambushing position.

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