Honestly why are people even considering limiting it to 4 level casting? The only 4 level casters are FULL BAB CLASSES. You know, things like the Paladin and the Bloodrager. Unless they plan on buffing the Vigilante to a Full BAB class, being a 4 level caster will just make this class pretty much just bad all around.
I want full BAB. It Deserves full BAB. Drop 5 and 6 level casting. Get full BAB. It's all I want in the world.
Just give a talent every level.
Extra Vigilante Talent should very much be a feat.
If there are concerns about power balance, or picking up trees of talents that should take longer to obtain, or concerns about people only making a 2 level dip into Vigilante, just make a note on which abilities cannot be taken with the extra feat.
I want full BAB. It Deserves full BAB. Drop 5 and 6 level casting. Get full BAB. It's all I want in the world.
Then write up a spec for a full BAB + 4th casting and its selectable talents for a DM to consider when you play.
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...especially since the vigilante will have a really large number of options.Could you elaborate on how many options we might expect compared to what we are seeing here in the playtest? Are we only previewing half of what might be in the final class? A quarter?
This is definitely one of the biggest issues I've noticed so far with the playtest. We keep hearing about all these other things that aren't part of the actual playtest which should fix the issues being brought up with the class, many of which (to judge by dev comments in other threads) are still in the idea/development phase. It really just doesn't feel like this class is actually ready to be playtested yet. It's like trying to write a review for a movie when all you have to work with is a synopsis and trailer footage.
This is definitely one of the biggest issues I've noticed so far with the playtest. We keep hearing about all these other things that aren't part of the actual playtest which should fix the issues being brought up with the class, many of which (to judge by dev comments in other threads) are still in the idea/development phase. It really just doesn't feel like this class is actually ready to be playtested yet. It's like trying to write a review for a movie when all you have to work with is a synopsis and trailer footage....especially since the vigilante will have a really large number of options.Could you elaborate on how many options we might expect compared to what we are seeing here in the playtest? Are we only previewing half of what might be in the final class? A quarter?
Is there any word on whether there will be another playtest released before the final printing?
Personally I think the Warlock and the Zealot are the two, if any, to need the feat... Seeing as half of their Talents are tied up just to cast spells...Yes and no.
The Warlock kind of needs the answer to be "no" as a balancing factor. For all the others, I think the answer is "yes".
Extra Revelation is for Oracles, which only get six revelations across their career, not ten. So they'd have to take it five times before it's really justification for Vigilante getting it. (Okay, so five is unfair because the revelations are front-loaded.)
Compare apples to apples instead. Extra Rogue/Slayer/etc. Talent and Extra Rage Power are exactly the same, and Extra Hex is pretty close in terms of how many you're already getting for free.
I agree. When looking at the Warlock I'm testing, it was a total downer when I noticed a lot of the fun stuff like bombs wouldn't be available unless the character became a fairly limited caster, which sort of defeats the point of playing the Warlock.
I think at this point is usless to try and rein in the power of feat choice when the average PF player is already used to pseudo full bab 6 level casters like inquisitors or magus , having pounce being a requisite on all martial characters ecc. ecc.
Power creep is already here, there is little point to try and give the shaft to the late comers like the vigilante.
Especially if the amount of options is going to increase in the actual book, the only thing that makes sense to me is embracing the trend and increase the amount of character options the class have. Even if it sound suspiciusly like CharOp.
Note: i'm not endorsing eldritch abominations like Sacred Geometry or Dazing Spells. Moderation please.
I think at this point is usless to try and rein in the power of feat choice when the average PF player is already used to pseudo full bab 6 level casters like inquisitors or magus , having pounce being a requisite on all martial characters ecc. ecc.
Power creep is already here, there is little point to try and give the shaft to the late comers like the vigilante.
Especially if the amount of options is going to increase in the actual book, the only thing that makes sense to me is embracing the trend and increase the amount of character options the class have. Even if it sound suspiciusly like CharOp.
Truth. Sayings about closing the barn door after the horse is already gone spring to mind.