In their current state, the casting progressions are really awkward and seem like they'd be annoying to play with. Why should a Warlock Vigilante have to wait an extra level for 3rd- and 5th-level spells? It would be better, in my opinion, if one of these two options were implemented:
Option 1:
Shift the spells known/prepared tables to match the standard every-three-levels progression of the other Bard-style casters, i.e. 3rd- and 5th-level spells became available one level earlier.
AND
Reword the Arcane/Divine Training III and V talents (not the others, just III and V of each type) to the following (added or changed portions in bold):
[Arcane/Divine] Training III (Ex): The [warlock/zealot] vigilante gains the ability to cast one 3rd-level spell per day and increases the number of 2nd-level spells he can cast per day by three. A [warlock/zealot] vigilante must be at least 6th level, have [an/a] [Intelligence/Charisma] 13 or higher, and have the [arcane/divine] training II vigilante talent to select this talent. A [warlock/zealot] vigilante who selects this talent at 6th level does not gain the ability to cast 3rd-level spells until 7th level.
[Arcane/Divine] Training V (Ex): The [warlock/zealot] vigilante gains the ability to cast one 5th-level spell per day and increases the number of 4th-level spells he can cast per day by three. A [warlock/zealot] vigilante must be at least 12th level, have [an/a] [Intelligence/Charisma] 15 or higher, and have the [arcane/divine] training IV vigilante talent to select this talent. A [warlock/zealot] vigilante who selects this talent at 12th level does not gain the ability to cast 5th-level spells until 13th level.
Option 2:
Do away with the Arcane/Divine Training II-VI talents. Take away the level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 talents of the Warlock and Zealot (so they only get five talents, at levels 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18). The class table would still list all ten talents, but in the description of Warlock and Zealot, you could just add a sentence saying that they only get half as many as some other specializations. Grant them the full spells prepared/known progressions that they already have, but shift the 3rd and 5th level spells one level earlier. Give them a spells per day progression equal to that of the Bard, or Hunter, or any of the other Paizo partial-casters.
I'd prefer option 2, because it's simpler and more elegant, but option 1 sticks a bit closer to the class's current state.
I think the current warlock and zealot progression is really really weak.
Avenger gets full base attack bonus
The rogue type gets full sneak attack progression (weakened when flanking, sure)
The casters get... 2 level 1 spells.
Wow. The talent tax is ridiculously heavy on the casters in my opinion. You have to burn 5 of them just to keep up with a magus or a bard
Not to mention, when in your social guise, you lose all but your first level of spell progression. It seems weird to me that you would just not be able to cast spells unless you're in disguise.
Not to mention, when in your social guise, you lose all but your first level of spell progression. It seems weird to me that you would just not be able to cast spells unless you're in disguise.
Create a table of spells per day just like other 3/4th casters. Then have each Arcane Training talent give access to its level of spells, using the spells per day table. So, for example, if you only ever take Arcane Training I, you're still gaining more 1st level spells per day as you gain levels, which makes it a better trade for other Specializations. If you take Arcane Training II and III, though, you'd get the full progression of 2nd and 3rd level spells from the table. If you never take IV, V or VI, you'll still gain more 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells per day as you gain levels, you just wouldn't gain any 4th, 5th or 6th level spells.
Create a table of spells per day just like other 3/4th casters. Then have each Arcane Training talent give access to its level of spells, using the spells per day table. So, for example, if you only ever take Arcane Training I, you're still gaining more 1st level spells per day as you gain levels, which makes it a better trade for other Specializations. If you take Arcane Training II and III, though, you'd get the full progression of 2nd and 3rd level spells from the table. If you never take IV, V or VI, you'll still gain more 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells per day as you gain levels, you just wouldn't gain any 4th, 5th or 6th level spells.
I think that would work pretty well, actually.
Agreed. Arcane/Divine Training I should still be automatically granted, but this would work nicely.
Create a table of spells per day just like other 3/4th casters. Then have each Arcane Training talent give access to its level of spells, using the spells per day table. So, for example, if you only ever take Arcane Training I, you're still gaining more 1st level spells per day as you gain levels, which makes it a better trade for other Specializations. If you take Arcane Training II and III, though, you'd get the full progression of 2nd and 3rd level spells from the table. If you never take IV, V or VI, you'll still gain more 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells per day as you gain levels, you just wouldn't gain any 4th, 5th or 6th level spells.
I think that would work pretty well, actually.
I really like that idea. Makes things much simpler, and you won't be so starved of spell-slots.
It's fine to restrict higher spell levels to needing it. But they really do need/should have scaling spells per day for what you are able to cast..
That would make it so much less confusing.
Just throw a spelsl per day by level chart up. with the caveat that they can't cast spells from spell levels not yet unlocked.
