I usually wait for the reviews to trickle in for Adventure Paths i might not otherwise get, also i like to check them out at the game store.
However this spring i just haven't gotten to the local store since right before the first book of Giantslayer came out, and the reviews have been few and far between, or have little detail:-(
so my question to those that have the books released so far, how is it?
does it rate up there with previous Adventure Paths?
Is there enough variation to keep it from becoming tedious?
how is the overall story so far?
thanks everyone:-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just started running it for my group, so we're only two sessions into it. I really like the beginning, that part is different from other AP beginnings.
I've read through book two and flipped through the others. (Obviously) there is a very common enemy type throughout the series but it looks like there are different methods to achieve success. Like in book 2 a diplomatic approach could help, while book 4 looks to be set up as more hit and run tactics to demoralize an army.
Only one response?
Does not bode well....
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Have you been keeping up with reports on The Giantslayer Endeavor?
Honestly, it's a little early for a lot of reports on the AP as a whole. A lot of GMs don't run an AP until all 6 parts have been released, and those that started 'early' probably haven't gotten too far into it yet (unless they're the Order of the Amber Die).
For my part, I've liked books 1 and 3, didn't much care for book 2, and haven't had a chance to look through book 4 yet. But that's just from reading it through; I haven't gotten far enough into running it to know how it will fall out in real play experience.
|
Just started running this last weekend, so for it’s been good. The party were not set up for an investigation so we had to wing a few of the required rolls in the first part of the book but it worked out fine.
Only one death so far – Decapitated Ratfolk Gultchgunner by Raging Orcs enhanced by a Skald. (Adjacent to three Orc’s and deciding to shoot them point blank with a blunderbuss. Attacks of opportunity with Falchions and 2 crits later = death)
The first book makes up for its slow start (Combat wise) by a very difficult and dangerous series of combats halfway through till the end. The Orc Ferocity pretty much gives them all a free attack before they Die. Only massive damage (20Hp’s) will kill them (Basic Orcs) outright and this extra attack does seem to cause some grief as fate dictates it frequently hits.
Party was pretty much set up for combat and is sitting at levels 2-3, they are just getting a sorcerer to replace the gunslinger so they may have more support in the next session.
Current Party
½ Orc Bloodrager using two handed 3rd (Deals lots of damage)
Trox Warpriest using scorpion whip 2nd (Attacking range, medium damage))
Ratfolk Vivisectionist plaguebringer Alchemist 3rd (Regular Sneak attack dmg when swarming. (Swarming buddy just died) Good damage with Alchemical weapons)
½ Elf Sorcerer 2nd (No details yet)
Ratfolf likely leaving (Second character for Trox player) as we have another player joining, no idea what they will want to play.
First AP is well written with nicely expanded NPC’s, well set out and moving the Magical Items to the page they appear in cuts down on page flipping.
I cut down on issues with making the whole party locals and giving them hopeknives; they knew most of the people beforehand and had already completed a quest for the village already so they were already minor local heroes’.
A good Mission to start them on is the Shadowed Keep on the Borderlands; works nicely with the area they are in and gives the party some money and loot prior to the main Adventure; also allows you to build up some foreboding with the influx of ½ Orcs and placing some Orc’s in the Keep looking to recruit the Goblins there to the assault. They also get to meet the local’s and build up more investment in Traunau which is important when it’s under attack and to motivate them to save the town in the 2nd and 3rd books.
Regards
Sic
I have read the first book and am in the process of going through the second book now. I am converting the encounters to 5th edition, so I won't get into combat difficulty since I'm using a different system.
I am changing the story slightly to suit my needs. See below for spoilers.
Book 2 is neat with its river voyage leading to the fey circle. I'm changing the motivation to go there from "looking for giant-slaying weapons" to "looking for information about the geode" the party found. Silvermane will be unaware the circle has been corrupted and recommend the PCs go there to learn more about the geode. There they will learn from some of the remaining fey that the geode is a map and that the other half is held by the giantess. The fort encounter seems to harken back to the Steading of the Hill Giant Chief (G1) book of old. I need to look through it in more detail, but I like what I saw first look through.
Order of the Amber Die
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Giantslayer has been an amazing adventure path so far, and there is definitely enough variation to keep it exciting at all times. Although there are expectedly a lot of battles against giants, there are plenty of other aspects of the game that sets it apart from even the likes of the classic Against the Giants modules.
Our group has been documenting our progress through the AP on the Paizo Blog (scroll down to Giantslayer Marathon parts 1, 2, and 3) or if you’d prefer, you can just go to our Dropbox for the complete article, then go to our Facebook and Instagram for more content.
My group finished book 2 last sunday.
I liked book 1 a lot. There's a lot of NPC interaction, a mystery to solve, and once things start to happen, it has a great pace
In book 2 you have a good bunch of NPC interaction, in the ship, and with the dwarf.
The only problem I found was that book 2 was too easy in the last part
I guess if you don't manage to gain the support of the NPC, it'll be harder and more threatening, but in our game, it became a cakewalk
|
My group is almost finished with Book 1, they already took out the main foe, just one more 'room' in the cavern to explore. It's pretty fun to run the game so far.
I'll be starting them into book two this week.
I'm converting this for 5E. So far I'm enjoying the story. I think the encounters are interesting. I'm changing them up to suit my group's tastes. I always like doing modules where the PCs get to go to war. It provides a better framework than the murderous thieving hobo reason that is usual for adventurers.
|
It's the most boring Paizo AP to date. I mean, it's not badly written or with structural problems, but it just doesn't have a single theme, NPC, location or idea which grabbed me. It feels like if after Iron Gods Paizo decided to put out a super turbo conservative AP to placate the grognards and compete with WotC in the field of traditional adventures.
Wasn't the single theme of the AP supposed to be giants though?
I liked the first two books, they would work well as a mini campaign.
Books 3 & 4 are very much "go kill giants because". :s
I'm hoping the last two (which should ship together this month?) will be more interesting.
I think you might have accidentally removed the wrong post - in the interest of civility, shouldn't we remove the post mocking those who are enjoying this AP rather than the one defending them?
|
|
I didn't mock anyone. I've expressed my opinion about it, and saying that it was written for grognards (which is not a derogatory term, AFAIK) is no different than saying, for example, that Paizo is pursuing socially progressive agenda.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'll be honest, I would've preferred they stuck with the Orc theme of the first book, Paizo has already proven they could do Giants but they've done hardly anything with Orcs
And thanks for the continuing feedback, I admit I'm more interested then I was at the beginning :-)
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't mock anyone. I've expressed my opinion about it, and saying that it was written for grognards (which is not a derogatory term, AFAIK) is no different than saying, for example, that Paizo is pursuing socially progressive agenda.
Well, you didn't say 'in my opinion' its the most boring AP to date, you stated it unequivocally. You also said that it was written as a 'super turbo conservative AP to placate the gronards (complainers)'... putting aside that that's obviously stated with a negative connotation, it also suggests that those are the only sorts of people who might enjoy the AP and that, for Paizo, that portion of their patron base is a necessary evil, like say... the religious right? Also a 'turbo conservative' bunch as I understand it.
I think this AP, like every AP, is more what you make of it and, as I stated, those who are less able to make something of it are less likely to enjoy it. That sounds alike common sense to me but somehow that was deemed 'uncivil' and deleted, yet your comments - as is so often the case - were allowed to remain. The more I explore Giantslayer, the more and more things in it I discover I enjoy. You, on the other hand, had your mind made up about the AP long before it was ever released, so I wonder just how honest an assessment you've given it now that its out.
I can't imagine that anyone would find anything objectionable in the post that you linked, whether its my saying that in a free society people have the freedom to patronize (or work for) whomever and whatever they wish, or the honest assessment that Paizo views themselves as a socially progressive company who feels a responsibility to include their philosophy in their products. I honestly have no idea what bearing that might have on the topic at hand.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And thanks for the continuing feedback, I admit I'm more interested then I was at the beginning :-)
I've been fleshing out book 1 a bit, making a number of minor changes which I'll be outlining soon in the 'Four Brothers campaign' thread. Hopefully it'll lend some ideas and show some of the potential the AP has in the early going.
One thing is for sure, whether you are an old school man-bearded grognard or a transgender pansexual 20-something, Paizo wants your business and money.
Or are you looking for them to exclude a section of their playerbase Gorbz?
As for on topic, this was the AP that caused one of my friends to finally dip his toe into AP buying, though he hasnt started it yet as we are knee-deep in a campaign another DM is running.
This isn't the place to insult people, please take that elsewhere :-)
And no insults were meant or given, that is a serious question I posited to Gorbacz, one I am keen to see the answer to.
Then carry on the conversation elsewhere, I have not the stomach for that in my threads.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The truth is that there are some poorly written and planned aspects of book one. A lot of contrivance that simply doesn't jive, but fortunately most of it is easily fixed. I'm still working on posting all the details of our campaign thus far, including the tweaks I made, but I'm doing it in Google docs while awaiting word from Paizo regarding the status of the original thread. I hope to have a fair bit of it posted during the next week.
On the whole I'd say it rates so far as average to a little above average when compared to other AP's, though as with all such adventures the right players/GM can make it sublime or a chore. AP writers don't make a campaign exciting, interesting or fun to play - the players and GM do.
Book 1 starts with a nice criminal case (not overly difficult) and continues with a lot of battling. Book 2 is written in a similar way, the party faces mysterious sabotage first and then fights through many combat encounters. NPCs are fleshed out in a detailled way, each villian has his own motivation. The majority of encounters is good, but probably you will want to cut a few dull ones. So far (half way through book 2) the group mainly faced a lot of orcs, half-orcs, other humanoids and a few giants, but it becomes more diverse (and more giant focused) later.
I am not really happy with the structure of the books - I have to scroll forth and back all the time when preparing. For instance, detailled descriptions of the key NPCs are found behind the adventure. The table of contents is no help, since it has only one entry for the entire adventure - but 7 entries for bonus stuff.
Anyway, it was a good buy and I am looking forward to get the rest of the AP soon. My players are happy with it also.
Has anyone finished running or playing the AP? If so, can we have some thoughts as to how it plays? Spoiler free please! For my part, my group played Numenera for a while and now we're into PF, so I'm part of that crowd who would groan at playing Iron Gods and wouldn't mind more traditional fantasy.
|
|
I know among my group of gamers who are concurrently playing Reign of Winter and Way of the Wicked this seems to be the one most folks have been the most invested in.
Personally I'm really enjoying it. The GM says she's enjoying running it because there are a lot of parts that are easy to modify and edit so she can go as fast, or indepth into side missions as she wants and still leap right back into the story.
Book 3 is the weakest so far. The reason for the PCs involvement and the goals are weak. They have no reason to complete the goals or work with the allies offered in book 3. In fact, they have every reason to work against the giants and the goal of the module. I'm going to modify Adventure 3 to make the goals more in line with what they should be.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Book 3 is the weakest so far. The reason for the PCs involvement and the goals are weak. They have no reason to complete the goals or work with the allies offered in book 3. In fact, they have every reason to work against the giants and the goal of the module. I'm going to modify Adventure 3 to make the goals more in line with what they should be.
It's pretty easy - the PCs get back from Adventure 2, and Trunau is either completing battling off a ogrish raiding party ("Hunt them down!) or dealing with a refugee crisis from the Mindspins ("Save the village!"). Either way, the PCs take off for the Mindspin Mountains.
I think the geode map is a bit much, esp. considering that Volstus is rallying a massive army at the Cathedral anyways.
Still on book one. As the DM, at least I have been having fun. I have been writing up six player adjustments for the AP, for my suitably power-gaming group.
I have not aspired to deeper roleplay, but seeing the players dealing with hordes of orcs has been been fun in and of itself. The last AP I ran was Kingmaker, so I'm looking for something a bit brainless fun anyways. It was a bit of a pain developing and maintaining several dozen NPCs for that campaign.
I'm starting this AP in the next few weeks, and one of the PC's has asked if there is enough down time to craft few items.
Does the AP offer the chance for PC's to craft items?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Very nice audio review of Larger Than Life from Kobold Press:
The entire show is entertaining and worth a listen, but if you want to shoot right to the review, go to about the 29:30 minute mark. Folks running this AP who are looking to enhance or improve their game should really consider checking the book out :)
Senior Developer
|
I'm starting this AP in the next few weeks, and one of the PC's has asked if there is enough down time to craft few items.
Does the AP offer the chance for PC's to craft items?
With the exception of the first adventure, and between the 5th and 6th adventures, there are not any "timers" that the PCs must follow. That being said, they're trying to stop a giant warlord from conquering Avistan, so for story plausibility, I probably wouldn't allow them unlimited downtime. But there's nothing in the adventures themselves (other than the exceptions noted above) are specific downtime or the lack thereof.
It's pretty easy - the PCs get back from Adventure 2, and Trunau is either completing battling off a ogrish raiding party ("Hunt them down!) or dealing with a refugee crisis from the Mindspins ("Save the village!"). Either way, the PCs take off for the Mindspin Mountains.
I think the geode map is a bit much, esp. considering that Volstus is rallying a massive army at the Cathedral anyways.
This does not in anyway address the issue that the PC goals in Book 3 should not be goals the PCs should want accomplished. It does not change that the allies the PCs are supposed to work with in the module have goals the PCs should not want to accomplish. It's a bad bunch of motivations that makes no sense.
I did read through the books and indeed I needed till book 6 to somewhat understand why the archvillian is dangerous at all.
In book 2 I find it difficult to motivate my players to follow the story arc (luckily they are motivated to play in general), so some dramatic events will be necessary...
|
It's the most boring Paizo AP to date. I mean, it's not badly written or with structural problems, but it just doesn't have a single theme, NPC, location or idea which grabbed me. It feels like if after Iron Gods Paizo decided to put out a super turbo conservative AP to placate the grognards and compete with WotC in the field of traditional adventures.
What, paizo capitalizing on the release of 5th to entice folks to buy their product by harkening back to days of old, of a module that was a classic?
Thats kinda a big fat duh. Yes thats exactly what they did. I think it was even mentioned somewhere, enworld I think, that that was the line of thinking of making it.
Well, it was kinda predictable that an AP focused on one specific enemy type would have player characters who can deal with that type of enemy more easily. Weapons with the Bane (Humanoids:Giants) ability will probably abound between martial player characters. Hell, Hold/Charm/Dominate Person also probably will be super-effective for the casters.
|
|
Well, it was kinda predictable that an AP focused on one specific enemy type would have player characters who can deal with that type of enemy more easily. Weapons with the Bane (Humanoids:Giants) ability will probably abound between martial player characters. Hell, Hold/Charm/Dominate Person also probably will be super-effective for the casters.
To be honest it's more than just that its that giants as a creature type really only have one trick (hit things hard) to the point that even the ones with spellcaster lvl's it felt more affective just to have them wade in and bash.
Depends on how many levels of spellcasting they have and their selection of spells, but I see your point.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
We are playing through Vol 1 now (8 sessions in) and I have listened through and prepared in d20Pro the first 2 AP volumes so far.
When I say "listened through" I mean it is because I have taken up as a habit of learning the AP by doing the following:
1 - Copy pasting out the entire text of the adventure and key NPCs pf each AP volume into its own Word file. I omit most of each stat block.
2- I do a search and replace of "f_l" and "l_i" removing the space Paizo inserts into these characeters in layout as Paizo addition of this extra space into between those two characters in their layout messes things up when processed by a Text to speech synthesizer.
3 - I save that all to a .doc file and then put it on my Android phone.
4 - I then use the free Android app @Voice to listen to it during my commute. I purchased a voice pack for Android made by Acapela Group that make voice synthesis software. I prefer "Lucy", a 30-something British woman as my reader. You may have other preferences.
5 - Play the books. Listen to them all. REPEATEDLY. Follow along with maps from time to time; listen to it with eyes closed at other times. Let it all come to you, absorb the overall plot and characters and choose the parts you want to emphasize to customize your AP run and smooth out the parts of Giantslayer you don't like - and emphasize the ones that do. Be Prepared. Have a plan.
The audio book preparation method has really had my overall understanding of this AP at a much higher level than a skim or read through I have used with other APs. It works VERY WELL for me. YMMV.
____________________
From all of the above, I have formed the following opinions about Giantslayer:
1 - Giantslayer is traditional meat and potatoes Western European focused fantasy. And that's A Good Thing.
Consider the overall production arc that precedes Giantslayer and that which follows it:
Reign of Winter - Planet Hopping and time shifting in Baba Yaga's Dr. Who Police Box;
Wrath of the Righteous: Mythic Rules experimental Adventure series that sounded much better than it played;
Mummy's Mask: You either like Egyptian themed stuff - or you don't;
Iron Gods: Fantasy SF crossover which is polarizing to many;
Giantslayer: Traditional Orcs, Ogres, Giants, Dragons, and a Cloud Castle;
Hell's Rebels: Urban based revolt against the Chelaxian rulers;
Hell's Revenge: Urban based throttling of the revolution from the Evil Perspective; and
[Forthcoming: Call of Cthulhu, Pathfinder Style]
Seen in the publication context in which it is placed, Giantslayer is the breath of normative Western European fantasy that many of us were craving. What makes Gorbacz dismissive is the thing which attracted me to it. It flipped my switches.
Now, that said, there are problems with parts of the AP from where I sit, what I want to run and what my players want to play. The nice thing is that its traditional fantasy makeup makes it easy to adapt.
I would agree with the observation that the Orcs were among the best thing about the AP. While I appreciate that this was the "Giantslayer" AP and not the "Orc" AP, I found that I really liked the Orc aspect of things so much I adapted the AP to bring the Orc flavor back in, especially in Vol 6. What can I say? Both Katrezra and Droja are amazing NPCs to me. I refuse to let them go with nary a whimper.
I've played or GM'd all 3 Dungeon era APs and 11 of the Paizo era APs. Over the course of that time, I have come to appreciate that every single one of these APs, without exception, is improved by adaptation by the GM and treating it as a base to develop a campaign from. While they can be run out of the box without too much tinkering -- they ALL benefit from tinkering more than a little.
In that regard, one of Giantslayer's strongest design elements is that its traditional Western European focused fantasy roots makes it the easiest to adapt. The authors have left large holes where that can be easily done and significant plug n play hooks are there to pursue if you care to. And if you don't want to -- you don't have to.
I have found Giantslayer to be great fun so far. A more thorough deconstruction and review is ahead on our podcast over the next 18-24 months. But suffice to say that if you are a fan of D&D and Pathfinder, there is a LOT you will like here and LOTS more that you can change to emphasize the things that you prefer while de-emphasizing the things you do not. It is not perfect; nothing is and there are many aspects I watned to change and have. But in that regards, traditional Western European fantasy is the most easily amenable to such home brewed adaptations. It's a significant strength.
It is a solid AP. Tim Hitchcock's Forge of the Giant God in Vol 3 is my favorite of the 6 installments, but 1 and 2 are close runners up after some re-jigging and buffing out of the necessary body filler.
We have played #1 and I have read #2 and #3 in detail, and looked at comments on #4-6.
There's a lot to like in terms of scenery, some good NPCs, colorful details. But there are pervasive structural problems which are really getting me down. I have a player who wants to understand what is happening and make long-range plans to deal with it. The plot of #1 did not handle this well. The plot of #3 will fall apart completely. (Probably #6 as well, though as I haven't read it I'm not as sure.)
There's an overall premise problem in that there's an army of giants. I don't want my player to fight an army of giants. I have seen him do it before--it is a lot more feasible than the module authors think. He came up with a strategy to take out over 200 giants in _City of the Spider Queen_ and the same tactics will work here. It's just very, very boring. But the alternative is to assume that the army of giants is harmless without its top leadership, and I don't think the modules make that apparent at all. I greatly fear that the player will turn to me and say "I'm so sorry, but the PCs have to get rid of these giants." And I will have to reply "Okay, we'll abstract it"--and there goes much of the appeal, for me anyway.
I would compare this AP to Rise of the Runelords 4-6. If your group really enjoyed those, this should work about as well. If they gave you trouble, this will too. If they worked okay, but not great--this is a whole lot more of the same. Consider running just #1 and #2, which make a good story about orcs, and then stopping.