That sounds like fun. Some nice idea’s, might borrow a couple.
I looked at the D20 Modern and I was not fond of the classes, I’m running base D20 Cthulhu classes for the first adventure; afterwards they will gain enough exposure to magic to pick up a class from Occult Adventures, Alchemist or possibly Druid along with any non full caster class from the other books.
Cthulhu Classes are basically an offensive class or a defensive class and then you pick a Job and that details your skills. Seems like it should work fine. Time will tell …
Magic will have issues with Sanity but not as bad as the Cthulhu rules but still will make higher level spells dangerous to cast. Also thinking of having the spells in the D20 Cthulhu book as available with their set cost castable by anyone who can learn it and pay the cost. As long as they can find the spells that is …
It’s going to be pretty Lovecraftian with the sanity loss and strange things happening, I’m considering having the Mothmen acting like the Silence from Dr Who but that will require some more work on my part. I just love the whole idea of an alien race running everything but no-one knowing. We will have to see what we can do with that.
1. Looking at increasing the number of Haunt Siphons as they will have little other way to handle haunts and other incorporeal undead. Holy water being their only other way at their disposal. Either that or a spell they might learn.
2. Stirges I was just re-tooling as Giant Mosquitoes but Giant Rats would also work well. Might use these instead.
3. I was considering making it a Lunatic asylum as well .. Makes little difference in the long run as the prisoners detailed could be lunatics by any standard.
4. The date of the fire was going to be a couple of hundred years previous and the place as in the book has a history of hauntings which of course people don’t talk about or fully believe.
5. I’m not having any undead encounters till after they have entered the building. The Headman’s Scythe & Skellies in the lake are too early; they would have been triggered by anyone else exploring the site. I’m having a few dead bodies scattered round inside the building in various stages of decay; from dusty corpse to the blood still warm and dripping … Foreboding of how dangerous this place is.
6. I’m keeping the haunts and the prisoners as they are; Likely switching the Splatterman to a psychic as only a very few will be actual Wizards or Sorcerer’s in a low magic world.
I would be interested in any more thoughts you have on yours.
I’m currently running Wrath of the Righteous and once that’s finished we may play this one.
Magic and Sanity
We will be using the Occult Adventures for magic classes with a few exceptions, being England Druids are available and sorcerers with limited bloodlines (Abyssal) could be available with permission. No Clerics or Wizards …
Sanity loss is an important part of the Cthulhu Mythos and using magic causes your somewhat fragile grasp on sanity to slip even further. I’m thinking of allowing a decresing sanity loss for the lesser spells as they progress. (If they want to play a magic using character)
So the top 4 levels of spells will have a sanity loss ..
I’m toying with the idea of a temp loss to your primary casting stat .. say 2 points for your highest level spell and 1 point for your highest -1 … regain a point per hour. I’m unsure if this would cause further issues. Would mean in a protracted spell battle casters could drop from exhaustion or mental fatigue. It sounds good in principle but interesting to see how it works in practice.
I’m thinking of changing the BBEG to a more well know BBEG … Professor James Moriarty … He could easily be alive during this time though old; advancing old age could have given him a drive to look into other paths of staying alive and his mind could easily have delved into the arcane with some success as a genius mathematician.
Based in Lepidstadt and being a professor of mathematics at the university there he could have been a colleague, student, tutor or competition to Professor Lorrimor and his research. Also gives him a good reason to be at his funeral and to meet up with the PC’s.
Additionally he would have a house in Lepidstadt where the party could be invited to when they are there; he could give them a few side quests to try to deter them from the course they have set. Get to know them and find out their weaknesses. Plus try to have them killed in various nefarious ways …
In the guise of a helpful mentor he could sponsor the party in their endeavors and possibly even replace Judge Daramid or Dr. Montagnie Crowl. But I’m thinking that would be too much and just setting him up as a friendly advisor and occasional quest giver would be more appropriate.
But the whole Moriarty as the BBEG amuses me; a quote from Holmes states that he has a diabolical mind which also could be taken as having a diabolical tendencies. Additionally he wrote a book called The Dynamic of an Asteroid which could have opened him to the Dark Tapestry’s notice. … he was a man of great mathematical and scientific genius …
Anyway those are my thoughts for the moment.
I actually bought the D20 Cthulhu book and looked through it; the sanity rules are pretty good as is the rest of the book. Well worth looking into and thanks to Randarak for suggesting it.
I'm thinking about using this as a base with Pathfinder classes later on. Of course Skills need to be adapted to the Pathfinder standard as it's very 3rd ed. I was planning on using just Pathfinder rules but I think it would lose something if I did it that way.
The magic system will be a problem as you lose sanity for casting spells in the Cthulhu rules ... Which would make for an interesting though short game ...
I'm thinking of making it a shifting scale so you lose less sanity for casting a lower level spell till it reduces to nothing when you get higher ... of course this will nicely limit the higher level spells they cast ... Will have to make sure there are not any spells to remove the insanity as this would be counter to the system.
It's going to take some time to work through this and will be a work in progress which will need to be adjusted as we play to make sure it works.
Hoping to put together an outline of the rules and these will be posted here when they are finalized for people to make any recommendations.
Looking over some Steampunk rules and they could fit in nicely but I decided that they would distract from the horror element as being steampunk it would already be a diversion from the normal.
I’m going to use the D20 Modern skills as they are more applicable to a 1920’s era, I’m also looking at using the background skills to let them have a little extra to begin with as I find the first adventures … (in fact the first four) are very skill intensive and need a lot of investigation abilities.
Been researching the 1920’s to see what differences there were then. Travel is much easier, Trains, planes and Automobiles are not uncommon. Steam Trains are the main form of transport followed by cars and planes. There were daily flights from London to Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam which took an hour or two.
Moneywise I’m not sure what I’m doing yet … but I’m toying with the idea of either leaving it as it is or making 1PP = 1 Pound … This does not sit quite right with me for some reason though.
The exchange rate for money in 1920 and now is about 1 to 50 That is 1 pound then is equal to 50 pounds now. While this is not precise (housing and cars are definitely out) it gives some idea. You could buy a decent house then for 500 pounds for instance … you would have a hard time finding a decent house for 25k in England now.
Average yearly wage for a male factory worker was about 200 pounds … for women it’s about half this.
After talking to the group we have decided to keep the money in the pathfinder format for simplicity sake.
That looks like an interesting read, I will go through it and see what I can use.
I did think of using a different system but I'm going to stick with the pathfinder rules till we break them .. Then I may consider the Cthulhu ruleset and migrate to that one.
was looking over the d20 Modern rules and I didn't really like them that much.
Pathfinder is a rugged enough system for this I think. May take a few rules from d20 Modern and add them to this.
I’m looking into running the Carrion Crown Adventure path starting in 1920’s England.
Obviously advanced firearms are common, Magic is unknown and the players are starting out with 2 levels in NPC classes (Adept not allowed .. again no starting spellcasting)
Once they have gained knowledge of magic then the classes in the Occult Adventures will become available; this will not be till 4-5th level however and they will be able to retrain their NPC class levels into standard class levels as they progress from 5th to 10th.
Base classes will be allowed but again without magic. No Wizards, Bards, Sorcerers, etc. Druids could be allowed when the Occult classes come online as Druidism is a valid class in a country dotted with druid circles. Alchemists will also be allowed as it’s basically chemistry infused with magic; again not till the other classes are available.
Obviously Technology will be available, Trains, planes and automobiles are around. Technology will replace many items. Many alchemical items will be available as they are available through technology. Travel will be easy as jumping on a steam train will likely get you close to any location.
Healing will be a problem in the early levels, bandages, antiseptic and painkillers will not be able to replace the potions of CLW’s and healing spells but they will find some healing potions and they will be amazed at their power …
Skills will need to be revised, many knowledge skills will not be available till later levels, spellcraft, use magic device as well as some others I’m sure
Will have to make some major changes with the haunts as they will not be able to effect many of them with basic NPC levels. I’m thinking about giving out more of the Haunt Siphon’s as these will help a lot with these and they won’t have any other way of hurting the haunts and ghosts of this book.
Has anyone else done this, I have noticed a couple have mentioned they might but I didn’t see if anyone has done any of the work and actually done this yet.
My players took the forge and relit it …
Now they want to make a series of small adamantine or mithril daggers and then make them large, melt them down and rinse and repeat to make themselves very rich. This seems to be a world breaking artifact. Could also make any weapon out of gold/silver/platinum in miniature and then make it large with a tap of the hammer …
Are we missing the point or are my players just abusing the system?
The character in question is a cleric of Torag and is in the process of rededicating the forge to Torag and brining his friends from Janderhoff in to secure and own the Forge. I see no reason why Janderhoff or the temple of Torag would refuse this being a very powerful artifact and something that could ruin the economy of the world in a few short months of work.
If a country owned this they would soon become a very powerful nation if they were not crushed by a more powerful country early on .. Any country that owned this would become a major powerhouse in military and economic might. Imagine an army outfitted with Adamantine weapons and armour at practically no cost bar the time to make them? They could have a treasury filled with gold, silver, platinum and all the fancy metals they wanted. This is a license to print money …
How are other people handling this? … bar the whole not relighting the forge part … I know the intention is to reduce the size of the weapons found but my players like to think outside of the box.
So I nearly wiped my party …
We were missing the wizard but if he had been there he would likely have died too as he is very squishy.
The party consisted of the following
Eidolon is a decent meat shield and good hitter; It has a Permanent 50% miss chance on everything attacking it but it deals half damage to anything non incorporeal. Makes it difficult to put down with its high AC. However the Drake has a +18 to hit which is enough to hit him but the 50% miss chance comes up about 75% of the time … (Well that’s how it feels anyway)
The Summoner has an good AC but not many HP’s (Killed his char earlier in the day with a centipede trample .. He got better and is rocking a -2 levels)
Trox is not too difficult to hit but hits hard and frequently. Runs away with burrowing if damaged much and heals before heading back to the fight.
Dwarf is OK against most things but against Giants and Orc’s he is a damage machine.
However they had just met up with a Spectre which had drained a few levels from most of the party so they were running for home and healing.
They were ambushed by a Rift Drake which ripped them apart. The breath weapon is very hard needing a DC20 Ref save or be slowed for a D4 rounds which most of the party failed in the opening volly. They knew the Rift Drakes were in the area having fought a few previously and driven them off when they found their prey turning into dust when killed (Eidolon) or not tasting very palatable (Undead Ankhrav)
Mistakes were made by the party, The Trox immediately burrowed underground leaving the rest of the party to face the Drake, the Ranger was too close and was attacked leaving him at 1/3rd hp he retreated 40ft incurring an attack of opp which reduced him to close to death and started him bleeding which he staunched leaving him at a couple of HP’s and continued shooting the Drake leaving the Eidolon and an invisible summoner to fight the Drake.
Summoner sent a few snowballs at the Drake causing some good damage but then spent the rest of the time healing up his Eidolon while the Eidolon beat on the Drake. Warpriest came back up on the back of his Ankhrav and channeled the next round (Slowed), the dwarf was outside of his range so was not healed.
Dwarf fumbled and inadvertently sliced open his own wrists with his bowstring and had 6 seconds to think aww I’m going to die before he collapsed in a rapidly expanding puddle of blood. Trox was knocked unconscious by another breath weapon and passed out. Ankhrav followed its last command and kept attacking the Drake. Eidolon is looking battered and the summoner is using all his free actions (Also slowed) to heal up the Eidolon.
The Drake backs off taking and dealing out damage and as a last resort breaths again and retreats. The last breath kills the Trox and makes the Ankhrav uncontrolled so it now attempts to kill the summoner who turned visible a round earlier. Summoner retreats leaving the Eidolon to cover him and the mindless undead tries beating up the eidolon who then runs away.
Eidolon draws away the undead beast before being called back to the Summoner’s side with makers call.
By this time the Dwarf is dead having bled out, the Trox is dead strapped to the back of the Undead Ankhrav which is carrying all the parties treasure …
Turning invisible the Summoner flys over the undead creature and cuts the ropes keeping the Trox in the saddle so they can loot his corpse.
The Assimar can’t carry the Trox out and the treasure so the treasure is saved leaving the Trox in the dirt (Trox was too heavy to carry out anyway). The dwarf has only just joined the party so funds would not be wasted on him but his items are taken.
So mistakes were made and people died. Warpriest should have stayed and channeled feeing up the Summoner to use more offensive spells and healing the Dwarf, himself and the Eidolon. Dwarf should not have moved so far away and thus missed out on the channels when they were done. Dwarf should have invested in some healing so he could have healed himself when he was down on hp’s. Even one potion could have boosted his HP’s that he could have survived the 5 points of bleed he had going. .. at least for another round.
Was an interesting fight, Summoner is leaving the mountains flying hard for safety … Have several more random encounters before he actually gets there though … Hope none of them are flying creatures …
2 Clerics (1 Str Based (Gorum?) 1 caster/buffer (Evangelist)) 1 Ranger (Trapper) 1 Wizard (Necromancer) Paladin would be handy too …
That I think would cover all the bases and provide enough to be able to manage this.
I nearly wiped my party with this campaign a few times due to lack of knowledge and ability.
EDIT: yup what Quibblemuch said
My players just ran away from the swarm and then lured it into another chamber to take out the spiders there.
I had it following them making them rush through encounters; it's nice to see true fear on a players face when they are fighting something and they know that very soon they will have to break off the attack and run for it.
Made for an exciting series of combats; watching them trying to quickly get through the spiderwebs was hilarious; especially when the mage got caught up in the webs and they had to go back to rescue him.
First character in 3.0, Joined an existing game I was a Ranger2/Bard8 in a Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil … Apparently not much use for a Face Character in the endless dungeon we found ourselves in. I mostly hung back and did ranged and sang. Felt very underwhelming.
I did manage to sneak off/scout a few times but anything I met could easily turn me into a sticky red paste.
Started off as a straight Bard but I took some Ranger levels to give me HP’s and some ranged ability. Still not good.
DM even gave me a magic instrument so I could cause some sonic damage. …
Bards in Pathfinder are much better …
I rather like a Monk/Druid build. Wisdom to AC even when you are wildshaped is pretty strong. There are feats to boost your wildshape and Animal companion to match your level and I think there is a feat to allow you to use your unarmed when wildshaped.
Take Master of Many Styles and you can take some good style feats with your 2 levels of Monk. Crane is great for not getting hit; Snake Style is also good for not getting hit. Monkey is great if you are prone to being prone … Also you have some great saves and abilities.
As for Druid the Saurian Shaman is usually considered to be the better of the Archetypes; being able to summon as a standard action when summoning Lizards is cool.
There is a guild you can join from the Inner Sea Magic guide which will improve your Caster Level so this will offset the Monk Levels. It’s not really set up for Druids but it can work if you choose the right one.
Anyway, I have put together some test builds and they are effective; they take some feats to master but they are fun to play.
Just started running this last weekend, so for it’s been good. The party were not set up for an investigation so we had to wing a few of the required rolls in the first part of the book but it worked out fine.
Only one death so far – Decapitated Ratfolk Gultchgunner by Raging Orcs enhanced by a Skald. (Adjacent to three Orc’s and deciding to shoot them point blank with a blunderbuss. Attacks of opportunity with Falchions and 2 crits later = death)
The first book makes up for its slow start (Combat wise) by a very difficult and dangerous series of combats halfway through till the end. The Orc Ferocity pretty much gives them all a free attack before they Die. Only massive damage (20Hp’s) will kill them (Basic Orcs) outright and this extra attack does seem to cause some grief as fate dictates it frequently hits.
Party was pretty much set up for combat and is sitting at levels 2-3, they are just getting a sorcerer to replace the gunslinger so they may have more support in the next session.
Ratfolf likely leaving (Second character for Trox player) as we have another player joining, no idea what they will want to play.
First AP is well written with nicely expanded NPC’s, well set out and moving the Magical Items to the page they appear in cuts down on page flipping.
I cut down on issues with making the whole party locals and giving them hopeknives; they knew most of the people beforehand and had already completed a quest for the village already so they were already minor local heroes’.
A good Mission to start them on is the Shadowed Keep on the Borderlands; works nicely with the area they are in and gives the party some money and loot prior to the main Adventure; also allows you to build up some foreboding with the influx of ½ Orcs and placing some Orc’s in the Keep looking to recruit the Goblins there to the assault. They also get to meet the local’s and build up more investment in Traunau which is important when it’s under attack and to motivate them to save the town in the 2nd and 3rd books.
4th level spells, Wall of Ice can trap him for a little while if you have a Wizard, 1 minute per level. At 7th level you can create a 10ft Radius Hemisphere which should be able to trap it. But you also have stoneshape which can easily seal up those porous stone walls. Have your Cleric/Druid/Wizard concentrate on sealing the room while your other combatants hold it off.
This could be done on scrolls then you just wait it out … the only downside being if you completely seal a room you might have trouble breathing yourself if you seal every crack…
So you could trap it in ice while you seal the room; or you can just seal the room.
A Decanter of Endless water is a good purchase for any party at 9k. I’m sure a clever wizard could fashion a lovely stream with his ice sculptures if needed.
Carry wooden stakes, Simple weapon called shot for the heart Have a range of 10ft if you don’t want to get that close … Instantly immobilized and dead till removed. High penalties to this but a crossbow bolt or arrow may do the trick too. Hitting a creature in the heart is Challenging and as such would be at -10 or -12 it you are throwing your stake or using ranged. The Vampire still needs to fail a Fortitude save for the heart to be impaled.
If I was a vampire and each party member facing you pulled out wooden stakes I would be tempted to run away though …
Question, What level Fighter is Skirkatla. She has Armour Training 3 which suggests 11th level but her Base attack is that of a standard Frost Giant.
Also a lvl 11 fighter Frost Giant would be unpleasant to face at this level.
I'm thinking Standard Frost Giant with +2 Template and superior Equipment and Stat array?
Going by how building’s often grow or are re-purposed I would be tempted to suggest that the walls in question were once exterior walls and as such are load bearing.
Many temples like this in smaller villages like this one would have started out modest and then grown due to popularity. The main room and the one behind the secret doors plus a couple off to the side may be the original structure with the other rooms and expansive forecourt added later. I very much doubt that the building was built this way originally.
So yes load bearing walls, probably quite thick 3-5 ft wide at the bottom with the now outside walls while not bearing as much weight as the original walls would still be 2-3 ft thick.
Depending on what they are looking to do; should they disintegrate a 5ft section the surrounding structure would likely sag but not collapse; some stones would fall and possibly injure those in the immediate area. Undermine the walls foundations would have a similar but less dramatic result.
Repeated disintegrate or rock to mud spells would bring the roof down depending upon the level of the caster and where it was placed. A good Knowledge Engineering roll should highlight a weakness if there is one in the structure where a single well placed spell “could” bring down the house. (if you wish this to happen as the GM)
Knowing a bit about this adventure; the rot in the village’s society and religion “could” permeate the structure of the temple and make it susceptible to this sort of attack. If I recall correctly this is built in a swamp so the walls would already be well versed in subsidence and would be built with this in mind. Time and environment will have it’s way however.
So it is actually down to you as to whether you would like this to happen or not.
I would do a combination of the above; all suggestions are good.
Yes have an exchange; have them plan on the good guys winning. Have the prisoner exchanged for a doppelganger or greater doppelganger with some rogue or bard levels. Don’t make it easy.
Have them try to kill the party during the exchange; undead and cultists in the crowd would be a great idea so the party don’t know who is friend or foe; summoned devils/demons etc are great for scaring the general populace. The whole plan is to get the party off guard; they are on guard during the exchange but not so much when they get back to their base.
So have a couple of teams; one team to make the exchange look like it went wrong and the party got away with the prisoner; another team in contact with the dupe and relaying the location of the party and advising on a time to strike. Once the time is right have the team hit the party location, hopefully when they are separated; perfect if they can capture another party member and replace them with a dupe too either during the exchange or afterwards. Have the “friend” wait for the right time when they are fighting them to either grab the book and make his escape (if they still have the book) or attack from behind landing some sneak attack damage and throwing them into disarray. (has he converted, is it their friend, is he charmed, compelled, should they attack to kill or subdue)
Prisoner needed alive to keep an active connection to the Doppelganger so it can use his memories to keep up the disguise (these are my own personal rules). One the ruse is discovered not so much. Then you have the race to find the cultists base and rescue their friend.
All depends on the party, do they use detection spells regularly; true seeing would foil this easily as would a good sense motive check.
I enjoy replacing party members with dupes; some of my players have had a great time betraying the party for several levels. You have to have the right players for this though.
I've lost three characters in the last three sessions... Help me build a character that will survive!
You could try a Scarred Which Doctor, yes I know you can’t play a Half Orc or an Orc but a level of Sorcerer with the Orc Bloodline will get you all you need and then 2 levels of Witch.
You use Con as your casting stat for Witch and A Charisma of 11 is all you need. Take Mage Armour and Shield as your Sorcerer spells.
Should have plenty of HP’s available plus you get Hex’s which are pretty cool. Also you will be able to spam a lot of 1st level spells and you are only 1 level behind a standard witch.
Correct me if anything thinks this won’t work.
Just a thought.
The above posts are all correct however …
Detecting Alignment is always tricky; however if he has magic up to hide his alignment then he will not show up as anything on detection; The spell Undetectable Alignment will obscure alignment regardless of good or evil.
So if you as a paladin detect evil on him then you will get nothing, as would someone performing Detect Good which could therefore make you think he is neutral.
This does not however prove he is Evil, Good or somewhere between. I would suspect he is LE and using magic to conceal this. A LE Vampire ruler would indeed care for his people like you are suggesting.
However you as a Paladin would suspect he is evil (being a Vampire) but he is also the lawful ruler and without any proof you have to accept the situation as it is. Regardless without proof you can’t do anything against the lawful ruler of the land.
As a vampire he has a very good position with food available without all the messy killing; it is in his interest to keep the cattle happy and as such he is shown as the benevolent overlord who cares for his people; this would actually be true as who would not care for his flock when they provide him with everything he needs to prolong his existence. This does not however make him Good or even Neutral. Showing concern for and protecting the well-being of your cattle is just good sense not good alignment.
Now this does not mean that as a Paladin you should do anything even if you find proof that he is Evil, he is a stabilizing force in an otherwise unlawful area. Remember that Law is just as important to you as Good is and a permanent bastion of Law in an otherwise unlawful area is a very valuable asset. Of course in an ideal situation you would usurp him and place an Lawful Good person in his place but this is not an ideal world and you have to work with what you have. If it is true that he is just taking the blood of the dead then no-one is getting hurt; the dead don’t really care anymore and if he is just draining the blood then there is no real desecration going on. Especially if they are aware this will happen and accept that when they die their body goes to the lord to ensure the protection and long life of their children’s children.
Take out the bandits and be very polite and cordial with the lord as that is your duty; he is the rightful ruler of the area and depending upon the laws he probably has every right to the bodies of those in his domain. It’s up to you but you could mention that you know what he is and you approve of his looking out for his flock as long as no-one gets hurt. This may cause a violent response however and you probably don’t want to fight him.
Regardless I don’t see any issues with you playing a Paladin in this scenario, you seem to have your bases covered and are avoiding playing the Lawful Stupid Paladin type which see’s evil and smites it.
I’m running Shadowed Keep on the Borderland before opening with the AP, Setting the scene with more half orc’s than usual in Trunau; one of the characters was a weapon smith and has Sara Morninghawk complaining that her new half orc replacement for him is not as good and keeps asking him to come back.
Two of the characters are half Orc’s being the children of Halgra and she sent them off to investigate the bandits at the keep. (Barbarian and Ranger) Playing her as a curt no nonsense woman while little tolerance for foolishness. The Barbarian is her favourite son and the Ranger is definitely not … The Barbarian was sent by her to save her disappointing son from the bandits after he was captured in a disastrous attempt to take the tower.
A Gathlain Sorcerer who is friends with Silvermane and introduced to the party by the aging Druid as the arcane support.
The blacksmiths apprentice is a Halfling unarmed fighter with a slingstaff and we have an NPC cleric of Abadar along for the ride and to provide healing, also played by the most experienced player.
They have already met several of the important players, they grew up here apart from the Gathlain and they all have the hopeknife trait for free.
So far it is going well, they should finish this at high 2nd or low 3rd level then they should be invested in Trunau enough to care about it’s fate and react appropriately.
I am introducing important NPC’s as we go along.
I feel going straight to murder would be evil; you are taking the easiest approach to a difficult problem and resorting to violence without exploring the alternatives.
Talking to the Duke is good; trying Diplomacy first as you have already stated you are going to do; that is the right and “good” thing to do. But jumping straight to murder when that fails lacks forward thinking … Which is a very Chaotic action. Planning is for Lawfull stupid types after all.
I would think kidnapping the Duke would be a viable plan however; Prevents the marriage and might draw out the Pirate Queen allowing you to murder her most horrifically. Also has the added benefit of saving lives of the innocent and uncovering her dastardly plot; even better if you can show her as the evil Pirate Queen that she is to the Duke before you kill her in the most gruesome way. If you manage to just draw out her First mate or crew and show them to be murder hobo’s then you at least can plant the doubt in the Duke’s mind and with your bard you should be able to convince him you are doing this all for his well being.
Rewards all round for you party from a very thankful though somewhat disturbed Duke who is now in Debt to those who kidnapped him … Letters of Marque, cash rewards or the favour of someone powerful and maybe the impending marriage of your party bard to the Duke at a later date. …
All in a win win situation.
Kobold Rogues with UMD and wands of acid splash, Magic Missile, Burning Hands etc are always amusing. Make them only have a few remaining charges so not that expensive.
Anyone remember the Deluxe D&D Adventure Dragon Maintain? Had a Big Red Dragon as the boss and his was giving out minor single use and limited use magical items to his Kobold minions. They were fighting off parties of level 10 or more.
Worth picking it up if you can for the tactics alone. Close quarter fighting, traps, swarming techniques. Hopefully not too expensive now …
If this shadow metal fades over time becoming normal steel of a dark hue then it would need constant input of new metal to replace that which has faded …
Also this addresses the problem of never giving an enemy something you are not comfortable the party having. As players are cunning and will do anything to get their hands on something powerful.
They can get this new metal but as it has a finite time it’s useful then in a few levels of use it becomes just another normal sword.
This way they need a constant supply as demand is always there.
Nice idea, I have made chain shirts into waistcoats for LARP before. They work very well so I see no reason not to have one for your character. I’m no armourer or tailor so …
Generally you need a good leather backing to attach it to and then cover the front in more leather to protect the material, then stich on the outer and inner material, attach the buttons and you are good to go.
It is a little heavy butnot really noticeable unless someone touches you but a nice overcoat and you will be fine. You could easily extend this over the shoulder as normal chain which would be hidden by the coat. The leather and material covering the chain holds it in place and prevents it from making much noise also making it great for those wanting to be stealthy.
I love the look of surprise when someone hits you and you just smile and hit them back over their protests that you are dead …. But, but, but, I hit you first …. Always amusing …
You could cut back on the chain and make a looser mesh which would probably be like studded leather in game term protection.
Does anyone else have issues with Neferekhu?
My group have decided she is the best thing ever and refused to kill her. They have stuffed her mouth with cloth and bound her head with silk leaving her ears free. Dropped her in a bag and took her with them.
Several minutes of Diplomacy later they have her indifferent with 30+ diplomacy (as it states she can’t be made friendly) … Dc would be 28 to make her unfriendly and 33 for Indifferent.
They questioned her about her grandson and got the information now they want to keep her around for her ocular abilities too. No amount of cursing and screaming from her has so far changed their minds.
My group is very inventive with experienced players; they cause me no end of trouble at times.
Waiting on the right time to turn her against them ...
Anyone else having similar issues?
PS just finished this AP btw.
That's OK I understand, I'm playing with adults so I don't tell them how to play their characters ... as long as they are willing to take the consequences of their actions.
I'm going to make her come back as a vengeful something .. Not sure what yet though ... :)
Yea it struck me as pretty evil dismissing her like that. This is the first such action by the character which was actually evil .. There has been a couple since but nothing like this.
Ok, Asking for some insight; On a range of 1-10 how evil is this action. 1 being lying to your grandma about eating her cookies and 10 being calling a Demon/Devil prince for tea and crumpets.
So onto the situation, we are running through Empty Graves and they are cleaning up the Undead in the main city till they come to the gates. Now the party has a wonderful idea of lowering a cleric on a rope on the other side of the wall and have them channel thereby killing off the weak undead and softening up the harder ones. Unfortunately the party does not have a cleric to perform said channels. …
Enter the NPC a lowly 2nd level cleric who is in charge of the gate. (Party is 4th level) They approach and talk to the Cleric when low and behold a shadow passes through the gate and proceeds to attack the cleric. All the other guards run away leaving the party to fight off the shadow with the cleric’s help … Two strikes later the cleric is at 3 Str which is hardly enough to move in her armour. They kill of the shadow with minimal trouble and are angry that the cleric wastes a channel to hurt the undead shadow.
Party discuss tactics and still want to try the Cleric on a rope, Cleric declines saying she is not willing to help as she can hardly move and can they go and request reinforcements from the temple. They decline and decide since she is drained of Str she can’t object so they tie her up with rope and throw her from the battlements shouting “Channel B%!!$” and dangle her from the battlements before the gate … cleric is obviously traumatized by the ordeal and frightened silly, one of the other characters is also sent down on a rope to hit the undead from above as he has a reach weapon.
Now in the crowd of undead I had some variant Zombies from the book that can combust things with a look, Both of the hanging members get to make saves or burst into flame. The player char makes it and scrambles up to safety, cleric fails and ignites …Rope has 2 hp’s per inch … fire does 4 points of damage and ignites anything flammable also ignites including the rope and takes another 4 hp damage destroying it … Cleric falls the remaining distance to be set upon by Ghouls …
Players laugh and shrug it off saying they would have pulled her up if she channeled …
Characters are CN Slayer (Holding the rope and pushed her from the wall) NG Druid, LM Arcanist and a CG Ninja/Fighter (Reach Weapon)
I have had similar problems with the bindings of the books, many pages falling out and such on the last few AP’s I ran. Wrath of the Righteous was the worst.
However a quick email to Customer support followed with some photo’s of the offending books and new books were shipped with my next subscription.
Love this company …
I wiped most of the party in book 1 .. Sarcophagus was a killer even when they disabled the trap. The traps in the book are very good, Currently running with the replacement party but as I have 6 players I am changing the creatures somewhat.
I play with rolled stats (4d6 drop lowest) 6 players and I am still killing off characters.
On the Temple in the first book and I foresee more deaths in the future.
But on the plus side the players have told me they are loving it, best AP they have played apparently.
We currently have,
Android Unlettered Arcanist 3rd
Seems to be working fine, the slayer and the Ninja are the main damage dealers, you will need a lot of healing which is covered by 4 members of the party. (both the slayer and the Ninja are two handed weapon specialists and they both deal impressive damamge)
DR is common even with low level undead. So something that can blast through DR of 5 or even 10 is very handy.
The Skald is not a great combatant but with a few levels and the players increasing system mastery will become an interesting addition. (he needs to learn to buff before entering combat)
With 6 players it takes some work to make it challenging but not all turn up on a night so most of the changes are on the fly.
Already killed off one party with this AP, this is the replacement party … They decided to make a party of damage dealers.
Hope this helps.
I was expecting the DIV to be a problem with my party …. However first strike was a critical with an Adamantine Flail and knocked it unconscious … (using the crit deck)
Little anti climatic but the DIV had already had the surprise round and on its go it managed to curse the flail wielder so it made its presence known. The party was very wary about the temple afterwards …
My players are loving this adventure btw.
Hello and Welcome to Pathfinder
I have seen this sort of thing before, we had a new DM running Kingmaker and he wanted to make it extreme … He had us make Gestalt classes and then added Mythic … It got pretty sic and he gave up as we were too powerful for the module.
With all of those options I would make a combination caster, a controller with the ability to be a blaster too.
I would drop a level of Wizard and take a level of sorcerer, Crossblooded, Draconic/Primal .. check out the blaster Wizard build advice which is available on here somewhere. Then each extra feat I would build towards item creation, spell focus Conj and Augment Summons …
Usually you can do one well and the others ok .. You should be able to control the battlefield well and blow stuff up too very nicely … As well as being the Swiss army knife of the party with your scribe scroll and eventually Craft wondrous etc
Also check out Inner Sea Magic if you have access to it. You can mitigate up to three levels of your wizard class so caster levels wise you can finish up casting as a 20th lvl wizard and a 4th level sorcerer. Your element of choice spells will do +2 points of damage per die and you can get some pretty nice damage when you mix in some of the higher feats … Like a free Empower or Maximize with the Spell Perfection feat.
You have a nice opportunity, don’t waste it …
I use the “Olde Magik Shoppe” called The Gorgon Zola’s which is a random magical shop which travels around and appears in every town and city. The trick is finding it. It is ran by three women a young pretty girl, an adult motherly sort and an old woman … no-one knows if they are all the same person or not but them. Time works differently in the shoppe; one of the players sweet talked the young maiden into a tryst as a partial payment and the next time they visiting the matronly aspect was large with child, the time afterwards the door was opened by a young child.
The Shoppe appears in a random location and the players need to find it each time they want to go visiting. The door is always solidly locked and curtains drawn; hammering on the door for several minutes will usually provide a response as the door creaks open to a dusty shop front with a glass topped counter and a bead curtain leading to the rear. Anything bought there is usually 10-20% higher than normal price but it is the only play that you can reliably get magic items. There is a flat 50% chance they have what you want in stock, with another 20% chance they have something similar. There is also a chance you can get something cheap … but it has … oddities.
Their “special” customers get a medallion that allows them to find the shop easier and even call it to them for a special price; however this medallion allows the shop owners to scry upon the person wearing it and devours a little bit of their souls each day. This results in a slower XP advancement as some is siphoned off to the shop owners … what they use it for is anyone’s guess …
Special items are usually interesting, too good a deal to be true and tend to have “interesting” side effects. Each shopping trip is a roleplay adventure and I have characters who refuse to go shopping for magical items because of it. … (he just does not trust them and insists they store all their medallions in a bag of holding) The party once traded the body of their gnome Druid and sundry other items for an item they could use. The shoppe got a new assistant that day … Don’t think they ever thought of the rag wrapped help they found the next time they went as anything other than another oddity of the Shoppe.
If they are going for a +1 sword they go elsewhere … if they are looking for something more exotic then they come here and experience the strangeness of the shoppe.
The truth behind the Shoppe is up to you. But this is what I use and my players enjoy it.
Welcome back to the seat of ultimate power …
It is your game so your rules. Ban whatever you wish, I usually suggest people don’t play gunsligers myself, witches with the slumber hex are problematic too.
I am old school and use 4d6 rolled 7 times and drop the lowest. This tends to cut out that one bad roll you may have. I have not seen a huge disparity of power between characters. My players and myself dislike the point buy as it encourages a min/max play style.
Legacy of Fire will need a little reworking I think as that is from the old 3.5 days? Please correct me if I’m wrong. Never ran that one and I don’t have it so I don’t know.
Hope you guys have fun and let us know how it turns out.
I am doing the same for an upcoming Skulls and Shackles game. There are only two players so we have gestalt rules for our main chars to make up the shortfall with a support char each.
I’m going Ranger/Sorcerer taking the two handed combat style with a two handed sword/power attack and going into DD at 6th level. Crossblooded Gold Dragon/Abyssal bloodlines.
It is loosely based on Elric of Melniborne with him being an Albino Assimar from Cheliax with a big black two handed sword; should be an amusing campaign.
Going to see if we can make the ship sail on land and sea … I’m sure binding some elementals should do the trick.
I have played with Paladins who forget they have the detect evil ability and other who detect evil on their breakfast cereal … always … and tree’s, that shrubbery there looks suspicious while that horse is looking at me funny.
It is better to limit strife in the party by not playing an evil character when you know there is a Paladin in the group. Some people will consider this a foolish move on your part as the paladin could have issue with adventuring with you and you already know there is one of those goody two shoes in the group.
Personally I would re-skin an imp making it fit with your alignment so you can concentrate on killing the bad guys; many groups have fallen out due to inter party conflicts and you never know if the paladin is smite first and ask questions later type or not. The character you have spent hours getting just right and leveled up to 5th level could find itself on the pointy end of a smite evil and finding amusement in the contents of your chest cavity.
Inter party conflict will happen; building a char you know will cause it just makes it worse. RotRL’s can be difficult enough without it.
This is a great idea, a friend and I were considering doing similar with an Alchemist Vivisectionist and a Ninja but without the whips. The whip idea is very compelling however should they gain the whip mastery chain.
However the way I read improved Whip mastery is that you only threaten to 10ft not 20ft. From Improved Whip Mastery: While wielding a whip, you threaten the area of your natural reach plus 5 feet. If there is a Faq or errata on this then I would be interested to see it or if the consensus of the people here is different.
EDIT: yea what he said ... Damn Ninja's ...
Truth; Just the trapper rolling the die while everyone else looks on is not very entertaining for the party. Although I find not dying a blast so I’m willing to sit out while the trapper does it.
As discussed previously or in another thread a dungeon filled with traps is just a whole load of die rolls away from being done; but then that’s any character really. A Minotaur is just a whole load of dice rolls from being dead for the fighter, wizard etc. …
As for the comparison; it got sidetracks as it always does with rogue haters and lovers having a “discussion” Pistols at dawn style.
I though it was a well thought out original post with some valid points; many people disliked comparing sneak to feats and some of those had some valid points too. Would it make me want to play one or stop me considering playing one in the future. No. But then I would not want to play a fighter either.
I would play an Alchemist, Bard, Ranger etc with a rogue flavor. Rogue is a good class but you have to take it as it is. Which is a class with nothing unique to it whereby you will find yourself overshadowed by other classes unless you find yourself in the right situation or group.
It’s combat skills are average, full BAB classes are better obviously, even clerics are better if they have a round or two to buff themselves and have better armour options. Skills a little above average, Bards do it better with less investment and Rangers are close on their heels and with the right traits can gain the social skills; all in all nothing is golden with the rogue.
In the right group they can shine; in the right adventure likewise but they tend to be the poorer cousins of adventurers which is a shame as they are one of the most versatile of the classes. They seem to have been relegated to the Bards status in 3.5 and that’s the party’s 5th wheel. Let into the party but the wizard is laughing up his voluminous sleeves while the rogue sneaks off followed by the invisible party.
As stated previously I like the rogue; but it’s compared to liking the runt of the litter because it’s cute. I would love for the class to be cool and effective but it’s just not the case. It’s small and dies way too easy which is a shame as it had great potential.
I would be surprised if the Next AP (featuring mummies and pyramids) does not have a plethora of traps and other nasty things the rogue (or other trap enabled class) would be able to shine in.
Personally I like the rogue; it is fun to play in low level campaigns. It mixes well as a dip and I enjoy having them in my games when I’m running them. Shame the rogue has no real unique class abilities as everything they can do another class has access to do at least as well. But I still like them.
I’m not saying you can’t do without them or anything like that but Pathfinder seems to have blunted the traps making them an inconvenience more than a threat; as mentioned previously traps are generally save or suck now which is a shame. There was a time when a trapped chest was something treated with caution and respect with the rogue given space to work while the rest of the party looked on with respect as the nimble rogue slid his delicate tools in tiny never seen before slots and manipulated the mechanism to achieve the treasure inside. …
Now it’s just. I open the chest; oh it’s trapped. I open it anyway …
Nice write up; I agree rogues are not that underpowered but they are more situational and yes their skills are widely available to other classes however which can take away from that classes primary abilities.
I have had rogues in my games who were consistently dealing more damage than anyone else; also they were the party face with enough diplomacy to talk a dragon into leaving them alone. Able to find and disables traps and use practically any magical item they found.
I have also had fighters that were useless at damaging and rogues which died when you sneezed on them.
Just saying that rogues are weak because so many other classes can do their job just tells me that the rogues abilities are crucial if so many others try to emulate them. Yes they fall over easy but that is part of the fun of them. They make an excellent dip class; they benefit from combining with practically any other class; they can stand up in a fight with the right build and with the correct feats can consistently sneak at least once a round.
But their primary role is not combat, sneaking, locks, traps, talking to the undesirables, providing witty banter and giving halflings a ‘respectable’ class to aspire to are all viable alternatives.
Leave the poor rogue alone; try sneaking into a dragon’s den without a burglar next time and see how your clunking dwarven fighter gets along stealing the dragons hoard. … Gets hot in that armour don’t it?
Well to let you know this went pretty much like this.
Had them make Perception checks to notice people watching them; they are the heroes of Sandpoint of course people are watching them (not all of them were watching for the reasons they assumed). Had the guards at the gate laying bets on who would walk back in or who would be carried back in (Taking note of times they left and when they likely returned). The rogue even joined in and made a profit from betting on his own hirelings not coming back; he made quite a profit but didn’t think the amounts they were willing to bet was unusual; At least not at the time. (They got well paid for the information and were only too willing to get some extra for getting more information)
On returning valiant and successful from the raid on Thistletop (took several attempts setting up a pattern that was easy to anticipate) they came across some bandits blocking a bridge and demanding “tribute” to use their well maintained and bandit free crossing. Hidden in the nearby trees was the true enemy which they all failed to see due to his exceptional stealth, cover and preparation. The party were all for turning around and going into Sandpoint from another direction when two arrows sprouted from the chest of the rogue; two failed fortitude saves later his Dex is impacted with Giant Wasp venom. They quickly retreat down the road with the rogue hemorrhaging his dexterity and finding somewhere safe they notice a piece of paper wrapped tightly round one of the arrows. The rogue opening it and reading finds a short poem.
“Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth, like playing with fire?, some poison for your use”
Reading also sets off the spell trap causing it to explode in his face and consume the slip of paper (destroying the evidence). This knocked the rogue out and the rest of the party have to heal him up and approach Sandpoint from the south avoiding the bandits. (Some party of heroes)
Having been healed up They all head back to the Rusty Dragon where understandably they have rooms; The rogue heads into his room after having something to eat and a lot to drink and notices the rug before his bed is slightly rumpled this sets him on guard as he notices that his window is not quite as closed as it should be. Looking out of the window he spies two people on the roof opposite watching his room while he also hears a slight hissing sound like acid eating its way through pottery then the collection of alchemical bombs under his bed goes off blowing him out of his room and he crumples (having failed his reflex save… Dex damage is painful); his last conscious thought was why was the man on the roof smiling and waving like that …
Companions hear the explosion and run to his room, using create water to put out the fire and some healing to wake him up. Seems he still does not get the hint and now wants revenge. Seems some people don’t accept that there are consequences for your actions.
His Mother (Ameiko) is annoyed obviously at the damage to her establishment and ripped into her son telling him what a disappointment he was and he will never be as good as his father; why can’t he be more like his other brothers and more responsible instead of off gallivanting round and causing havoc and annoying people. All of this is expressed with a soup ladle waving in his face and splattering his clothes with mostly cooked tasty soup. He had better go and apologize to the nice Alchemist who he has obviously driven to this drastic action by his idiotic behavior.
I had some fun with this … Takes the campaign a little off topic but it makes Sandpoint come more alive having a nemesis that close. One that is to all outward appearances an upstanding member of the community, pays taxes, has lunch with nobles and guards, visits the bakery for his bread every morning, always goes out of his way to stop and talk to passerby’s and makes toys for the local kids visiting his store.
Laid the nice guy on a little thick but hey; I’m having fun.
I have a quandary; a character in my campaign made a series of gaffes with the Alchemist Poliker. They approached him and fumbled around asking for something to put people to sleep; not actually knowing his side business. However a series of spectacularly failed Diplomacy rolls by the rogue moved him to hostile along with the bard who accompanied him being exceptionally pushy. They even tried to barge into the shop and demand he sells/makes them what they want; apparently no means no (who would have thought it?)
Anyway escalation and Poliker had to resort to throwing a small bomb at them to convince them to leave his shop and not bother him anymore (the rogue did attack first but missed). The rogue was nearly knocked out by this bomb and the Bard dragged him away still kicking and screaming about his drugs/poison needs. (Bard has played an alchemist before and knew the rough level of the alchemist by the dice rolled; they were both level 2 at this point)
Apparently saying no to the Rogue was not acceptable and he took umbrage against loosing against a damn shopkeeper and decided to even the score by attempting to burn down the Alchemists place of business and house; not once but twice. First time was setting a small fire by the back door and the second time by cutting a hole in his rear window and throwing alchemists fire inside. The first attempt scorched his door as it was a solid security door made of seasoned oak and bound in iron. (You have to protect your place of business) The second attempt wiped out the contents of his back room which included some alchemy stores and most of his kitchen. (The Rogue is a minor noble and CN in alignment; used to getting his own way and is a spiteful little sod so apparently no is not on the cards)
So what to do? I have spoilered this as it has dodgy info.
Now considering Polikers nature and contacts what would be the most suitable repercussions for these events. I have asked for countless Knowledge Local rolls on the Rogue and Bard’s part but neither of them can get above 10 despite many attempts so they have no idea of Poliker’s connections.
1. Contact the local law enforcement and log a complaint. (no proof just suspicions) One of the heroes of Sandpoint tried burning down the place of business of a resident of Sandpoint. This would fit the Lawful side of his alignment but would not really satisfy Poliker.
I am really enjoying this side of the campaign; I’m leaning towards getting in some specialists to teach the upstart minor noble some manners. I believe in there being repercussions to your actions.
On a side note these characters are the children of a previous campaign; I was running Jade Regent and they party got almost wiped out by a Large White Dragon; they retreated and healed/resurrected those killed and minus equipment decided to return home to Sandpoint and lick their wounds. The party Rogue married Ameiko and had some kids, two of the party are playing these children (rogue and bard) and as such are minor Nobles. I know RotRL’s is set prior to Jade Regent but it seems to be working ok. There will come a point when the group needs to decide on following the RotRL’s path or moving to Jade Regent.