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Warpriests are trash, mostly.
Inquisitors are one of the best balanced classes in the game, and one of the most versatile.
Their spell list contains many of the most powerful melee buffs in the game like Heroism, Shield of Faith, Divine Power, and Stoneskin.
Their Initiative is amazing, as are their Knowledge skills. Take Improved Monster Lore and you can identify everything in the Bestiary on a 1, easily.
Judgement is more versatile than Smite. Being able to nab Fast Healing or DR, or a Sacred bonus to AC (better than Smite, since it's a Deflection and thus overlaps with your Ring of Protection and such) as needed and keeping a flat +hit/damage buff if not is excellent. If you don't like it, Sanctified Slayer is a good replacement.
Combats generally only last three to 4 rounds. Bane lasting rounds per level is just as irrelevant as Rage lasting rounds per level. With Monster Lore you know exactly what type of creature you're fighting at all times. An extra 2 to-hit, 2d6+2 damage, and increased DR bypassing ability (even into Epic DR) in every single combat is a buff you'd have to be crazy not to want. Take Extended Bane and nab a Bane Baldric if you feel like you don't have enough.
Stalwart means any significant Suck or Suck spell (like Blasphemy, as a minor example) are a non-issue. Grab a Ring of Evasion and you will always Save Negate any spell in the game.
Solo Tactics is a neat ability, and if you don't like it go Preacher and hand out free re-rolls to your team ad yourself.
If you can't see why someone would want to play an Inquisitor you're not looking.
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My high level Inquisitor in Way of the Wicked generally wandered around with:
-Heroism
-Shield of Faith
-See Invisibility
-Bloodhound
-Countless Eyes
-Keen Edge
-Corruption Resistance
-Seal Against positive Energy (he was a Nosferatu)
Up at all times.
In a pinch he could throw down a Righteous Might, Greater Invisibility (he was a Sanctified Slayer), or Divine Power.
If he was grappled, Litany of Escape fixed that right damn quick.
Burst of Speed was great for getting across the field if need be (though generally unnecessary due to the fact that he was a Whip user and could pull out somewhere between a 20 and 30 foot Reach if needed).
Invisibility Purge came out when something was hiding from my allies (in one case, a Wyrm Brass Dragon).
Due to his War/Tactics Domain he could grab a Combat Feat when it would be useful (such as Blind-Fight or Combat Reflexes), and roll Initiative twice and take the better result (or do so for his less Initiative savvy allies).
If he was hurt badly, he could Harm himself, or do the same to an enemy. I never got the chance to do it, but they get Overwhelming Presence a level before Wizards do.
5 times per day he could re-roll a missed attack roll (generally used on 1s) or make an enemy re-roll an attack against an ally (generally used on criticals).
The best part? Inquisitors nearly build themselves. I did not have to do nearly as much dumpster diving for good stuff as I'm used to trying to make stuff like Monks work.
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Warpriests are trash, mostly.
Inquisitors are one of the best balanced classes in the game, and one of the most versatile.
Their spell list contains many of the most powerful melee buffs in the game like Heroism, Shield of Faith, Divine Power, and Stoneskin.
Their Initiative is amazing, as are their Knowledge skills. Take Improved Monster Lore and you can identify everything in the Bestiary on a 1, easily.
I guess. I don't really disagree with most of this.
Balanced has nothing to do with my thoughts on the class
Good spell list. Poor spell progression. Small spells known. All a part of the balance.
I do like their Init boost their skill list and ranks and skill bonus'.
Judgement is more versatile than Smite. Being able to nab Fast Healing or DR, or a Sacred bonus to AC (better than Smite, since it's a Deflection and thus overlaps with your Ring of Protection and such) as needed and keeping a flat +hit/damage buff if not is excellent. If you don't like it, Sanctified Slayer is a good replacement.
It is more versatile...granted. I just don't see it as a the bucket of win as others.
Combats generally only last three to 4 rounds. Bane lasting rounds per level is just as irrelevant as Rage lasting rounds per level. With Monster Lore you know exactly what type of creature you're fighting at all times. An extra 2 to-hit, 2d6+2 damage, and increased DR bypassing ability (even into Epic DR) in every single combat is a buff you'd have to be crazy not to want. Take Extended Bane and nab a Bane Baldric if you feel like you don't have enough.
Not quite. 5th level means 5 rounds...unless you do squeeze in one of the Bane duration boost feats, but you only get one since you cannot take them until you have the ability which you don't have until 5th.
The Baldric is 10k....you are not getting that @ 5th...or for a handful of more levels.
Stalwart means any significant Suck or Suck spell (like Blasphemy, as a minor example) are a non-issue. Grab a Ring of Evasion and you will always Save Negate any spell in the game.
A level 11 ability. Thus a fairly later game ability. Most APs go to mid teens, so you have 4-5 levels of this.
But yes it is an excellent ability.
Solo Tactics is a neat ability, and if you don't like it go Preacher and hand out free re-rolls to your team ad yourself.
Solo can be ok. Not very impressed with Teamwork feats...
If you can't see why someone would want to play an Inquisitor you're not looking.
Turn the tool dial down please.
Nah.
If laying out a list of very good abilities that all complement each other and can be used simultaneously is being a tool I don't see anything wrong with it.
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Cannot remember exactly what level he became a mimic-meal...though 4-6 area.
Well, that's part of the problem. You died right around the time the class hits its stride.
Now don't get me wrong. I think the smite of a Paladin sucks becasue it is of such a limited usage. Thus when I do play a paladin I take the archetype that allows a swap of LoH for Smites. Even still, the Smites are much stronger than the judgments.Remember, unlike Smite Evil, Judgment lasts a whole fight no matter how many foes you fight, and works on any and all targets.
Also...if you dislike limited use abilities, there's always the Sanctified Slayer, which replaces Judgments with Studied Target and some Sneak Attack. That might suit your playstyle better...though I'll note that people don't generally regard it as a straight upgrade.And it is fairly weak. So who loses in the battle of red-headed step child?
Paladins do what they do very well...go after teh BBEG...emphasis on E. Inq on the otherhand want to nickel and dime everyone.
I think you're underestimating the benefits of a buff that works on multiple foes and doesn't require the target to be evil.
I played an inquisitor in a game where about half of the big fights were against non-evil foes, and the ultimate adversary was lawful neutral. If I'd played the character as a paladin, which was the plan before I looked at the inquisitor, it would have been frustrating because I would not have been able to use my signature ability.
Similarly, a different campaign recently had a fight where we killed about 24 ghoul wolves in about three waves. The paladin had three smites at that point... enough for 1/8th of his foes. A few levels previously, we fought a drow with about 12 minions - and the paladin lacked the mobility to get to the boss so he ended up tangling with a bunch of minions while my monk/bloodrager tumbled past to engage the massive smite target. In these situations an inquisitor would have spend one judgment to buff himself against all his foes - it might not have been as big a boost, but it's better to get a modest buff against 6 guys than overkill one and then not be buffed against the other 5.
Yeah, if the paladin can zero in on the BBEG it's pretty great, but depending on playstyle and encounter design that might not always be possible.
Also, Stern Gaze can make some really awesome stuff. Intimidate with Blistering Invective is a great debuff (and note Blistering Invective is not a cleric spell). With both Sense Motive and Detect Alignment (not just Evil but any alignment) the Inquisitor is really great at reading others, and that can be very useful in a more socially oriented game.
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I have explained an answer to this though that people have taken slight to what I said is interesting.
I don't think people are offended, just confused.
And yes, I would say that Wiz and Magus would have a more common chassis than I would say Sor and Bard.
Agreed! Just like Cleric has way more in common, chassis wise, with Warpriest than it does with Inquisitor. Really, the Sorcerer to Bard comparison is the closest parallel.
I guess congrats on you. I have not found that the 'pieces just fit'.
Uh...have you not used buff spells? Did it not occur to you to combine such spells with Judgment and Bane? Because that's the secret in a nutshell, and not that hard to figure out IMO.
Cannot remember exactly what level he became a mimic-meal...though 4-6 area.
That'd be the issue. An Inquisitor plays very much like an Oracle right up through 4th level, with Judgments a small bonus at best. It's at 5th when they start coming into their own as powerhouses.
I do remember that always wanting to hold onto the judgement for a big fight which never materialized...or using it and feeling it was lack-luster.
At 4th level? Yeah, I'd imagine it was. It's best used combined with pother buffs, IMO.
Bane is a good ability...for 5 rounds a day to start. That duration is a letdown to me.
They're any five rounds you want, though. There's no need at all for them to be continuous, which lets you cherry pick the five best rounds.
As for casting...well it is magic...King of the Hill. That comes down to spell...
Sure. My point wasn't that spells made them amazing, it was that they let them be okay up until 5th level where Judgments start getting good and you get Bane and they become amazing.
So 2/3rds of your adventuring career to get to the point where it is basically an always on ability.
Yep. By that point, of course, it's an always-on +3 to hit and +4 damage. Or one of several other bonuses.
Things don't need to be on all the time to be god, though.
The Alchemist get his mutagen that is 10 minutes per level and gives a more powerful effect. And he can brew another with a bit of time so he can blow his wad again in the same day.
It's actually only a more powerful effect at early levels...the levels where that's maybe an hour a day, and thus often nowhere near all the fights you get in. By 7th, I'd say Judgment is on more often, and by 8th, it's probably about on par as an ability.
And the Alchemist never gets anything equivalent to Bane, either.
I can talk about how Grit and Panache are super limited...but renewable.
Yeah...those really aren't comparable.
And it is fairly weak. So who loses in the battle of red-headed step child?
Uh...Sanctified Slayer is widely considered flat-out superior to the Slayer Class. Which is considered a solid martial class. Which makes calling it a 'red-headed step child' really inaccurate.
Paladins do what they do very well...go after teh BBEG...emphasis on E. Inq on the otherhand want to nickel and dime everyone.
Indeed, Paladins do very well when they focus on a foe...but so do Inquisitors. At 8th level, with a round of buffing with Divine Favor plus Smite Evil, a Cha 18 Paladin probably has +5 to hit, +9 damage. An Inquisitor using Judgment, Bane, Heroism pre-cast and Divine Favor has +8 to hit, +14 damage. Now, the Paladin's a Full BAB class, which makes their to-hit almost equal...but the Inquisitor is still ahead in damage (the Paladin can help close that gate if both have Power Attack, but loses even more to-hit to do so). Now, the Paladin can skip the buffing round entirely and get another attack off at +4 to hit, +8 damage...but only one.
And the Inquisitor can do it vs. non-evil targets. Individually, the three things the Inquisitor is doing that differ from the Paladin are all smaller than Smite Evil, but they add up to a greater bonus in total.
Now Paladins still definitely have advantages (Saves and self healing leap to mind)...but an Inquisitor can do better than most Paladins offensively a lot of the time by level 7 or so if they work their synergies right.
When I do look again I do tend to look at the Sanctified Slayer...and do move on again.
Okay...but that seems to be an issue with your playstyle meshing with the Class rather than one with the Class itself.
You may be right. Maybe I just expect too much from them.
As I have said before I want to like these classes...there is just 'je ne sais quoi'.
Well, what classes do you like to play? And why?
If you wanna understand why you don't like something, you should compare it to things you do like and look for differences.
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Kobold war priest X/blood rager 1.
1. Take 1 level of bloodrager with draconic bloodline to get claws.
2. Take racial trait that gives you a bite attack that can deal 1d6 energy damage 1/day.
3. First level feat take tail terror to get a slap attack with your tail.
4. Become war priest of Apsu so your deity's favored weapon is bite.
5. Get weapon focus with all your natural attacks so they all benefit from sacred weapon.
6. Get the "draconic" line of Kobold racial feats and be a chibi dragon.
... Sounded fun to me.
The double tigers comes from the Animal or Alignment Blessings' Major power.
Which still doesn't work since there's no way to ever get two out, but you can certainly get one as a swift and then do your thing.
You can get two in one round. You use a quickened blessing for one and then a regular blessing for the other. While the sla can only summon one creature per use, you can use it as many times as you want. So in round 2 you could have 4.
I misspoke before. The summon is supernatural, not spell like.
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Kobold war priest X/blood rager 1.
1. Take 1 level of bloodrager with draconic bloodline to get claws.
2. Take racial trait that gives you a bite attack that can deal 1d6 energy damage 1/day.
3. First level feat take tail terror to get a slap attack with your tail.
4. Become war priest of Apsu so your deity's favored weapon is bite.
5. Get weapon focus with all your natural attacks so they all benefit from sacred weapon.
6. Get the "draconic" line of Kobold racial feats and be a chibi dragon.... Sounded fun to me.
Doing that as a Toothy Half-Orc is even better.
Trade Bloodrager 1 for Barbarian 2.
Take Lesser Draconic Blood to get 2 Claw Attacks.
Take Extra Rage Power - Lesser Fiend Totem to get a Gore Attack
Accept Irori as your Lord and Savior to gain Improved Unarmed Strike Feat and Unarmed Strike as you Sacred Weapon.
Take Feral Combat Training (Bite)
Because you're half-human, you get access to Martial Versatility.
Use Martial Versatility to target Feral Combat Training, which therefore targets ALL weapons in the Natural Weapons Group, which includes Unarmed Strike.
Proceed to make 1 Bite, 1 Gore, and 2 Claws every round at your highest BAB and full Sacred Weapon bonus.
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Kobold war priest X/blood rager 1.
1. Take 1 level of bloodrager with draconic bloodline to get claws.
2. Take racial trait that gives you a bite attack that can deal 1d6 energy damage 1/day.
3. First level feat take tail terror to get a slap attack with your tail.
4. Become war priest of Apsu so your deity's favored weapon is bite.
5. Get weapon focus with all your natural attacks so they all benefit from sacred weapon.
6. Get the "draconic" line of Kobold racial feats and be a chibi dragon.... Sounded fun to me.
I like to use WrPr in theoretical builds that get the Weapon if the Chosen line ASAP.
I an enamored with the idea of getting to roll twice for your attack every round.
Kobold war priest X/blood rager 1.
1. Take 1 level of bloodrager with draconic bloodline to get claws.
2. Take racial trait that gives you a bite attack that can deal 1d6 energy damage 1/day.
3. First level feat take tail terror to get a slap attack with your tail.
4. Become war priest of Apsu so your deity's favored weapon is bite.
5. Get weapon focus with all your natural attacks so they all benefit from sacred weapon.
6. Get the "draconic" line of Kobold racial feats and be a chibi dragon.... Sounded fun to me.
I like to use WrPr in theoretical builds that get the Weapon if the Chosen line ASAP.
I an enamored with the idea of getting to roll twice for your attack every round.
It's pretty fun. Now that Rezol is level 7 and has Vital Strike, he's going to start falling behind Full BAB classes in damage, but he was a truck up to this point, and he's probably going to still hold his own for a few levels yet.
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Regarding the Warpriest spell list I think Paizo should have pulled an Hunter on that one too by adding Paladin and Antipaladin spells to the list.
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I like the idea of being a kobold for the chibi dragon cuz one I love kobolds and two it seems like a neat role play idea for a not evil kobold or even an evil one if there's an evil dragon deity to worship somewhere. Also kobolds have a line of feats that can bet them a permanent fly speed, a breath attack that deals 4d6 damage 2/day, as well as resistance to sleep and paralysis effects. Would be so cool.
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Unless you have two heads you cannot make both a bite and gore attack in the same full-attack. You require a separate appendage for every natural attack you wish to make....
Proceed to make 1 Bite, 1 Gore, and 2 Claws every round at your highest BAB and full Sacred Weapon bonus.
No - you can make both a bite & gore attack, though I believe you'd be right if this were 3.5. The only limitation is that if you use a manufactured weapon you can't use the same limb for nat attacks.
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I like the idea of being a kobold for the chibi dragon cuz one I love kobolds and two it seems like a neat role play idea for a not evil kobold or even an evil one if there's an evil dragon deity to worship somewhere. Also kobolds have a line of feats that can bet them a permanent fly speed, a breath attack that deals 4d6 damage 2/day, as well as resistance to sleep and paralysis effects. Would be so cool.
I did something similar to this in 3.x with a Gestalt Kobold Barbarian/Sorcerer. It was a really fun character to play and the group loved his crazy antics.
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Unless you have two heads you cannot make both a bite and gore attack in the same full-attack. You require a separate appendage for every natural attack you wish to make....
Proceed to make 1 Bite, 1 Gore, and 2 Claws every round at your highest BAB and full Sacred Weapon bonus.
Tell that to the gargoyle.
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No - you can make both a bite & gore attack, though I believe you'd be right if this were 3.5. The only limitation is that if you use a manufactured weapon you can't use the same limb for nat attacks.Unless you have two heads you cannot make both a bite and gore attack in the same full-attack. You require a separate appendage for every natural attack you wish to make....
Proceed to make 1 Bite, 1 Gore, and 2 Claws every round at your highest BAB and full Sacred Weapon bonus.
I believe I remember seeing this as part of an eidolon discussion. The point was that you had to add arms to get more slams/claws, and more heads to get more bites/gores. For the life of me I cannot find that information now though, so maybe I did just imagine it.
RE: gargoyle - monsters are frequent rule benders, so I tend to ignore those data points with regard to PC options.
Agreed, citing monsters as a rules source is a bad idea... just cause a dragon can breath fire and fly doesn't mean you can.