So, I have been reading this thread lately and have been creating some npcs when I came across an interesting thought. What happens when an aasimar and a tiefling fall in love? Normally, these two races are at odds with each other or are enemies.
1) Have there been any examples in Paizo's content where an aasimar and a tiefling fall in love with each other?
2) Have any of you made use of such a couple?
My girlfriend's first character in pathfinder was a Tiefling Druid (I know...weird, she insisted.) and so I made her main companion an Aasimar archery Bard.
They were constantly at odds but eventually found common ground and fell in love and such...was fun because I found it really easy to play suave through him even though I'm not like that in real life.
The epilogue had them stay together, but we never specified children. I would toy with the idea that their children become normal humans (hah!), but in all honesty it would probably be random.
I don't think there are any mentions of such couples in any Paizo content...
2. No, I don't look to mixng up extremes for the heck of it. Let's be honest, you're not interested in the love part, you just want answers at what kind of freak child would result. I would say that such a couple would either produce stillborn births or a normal human child. (I use the human-only model for planetouched as well. Because I'm that much old school.)
I was actually curious if a romance between the two was possible. The natural answer would be "yes" due to the whole love being blind thing and there's someone for everyone out there. A child between the two races was the furthest thing from my mind. Though, your thoughts on the possible offspring are sound.
Aasimar and Tieflings are not inherent enemies, but will always view each other with mutual suspicion, the aasimar because she knows what it's like to be divided between planar and human and she knows exactly what kind of mix a tiefling is, and the tiefling, because his life has led him to suspect everyone, especially one whose heritage dwells from the outer planes.
I suppose I assumed that they would be natural enemies due to their opposite heritages. And I was wrong on that.
Thank you all for your thoughts so far!
I was actually curious if a romance between the two was possible. The natural answer would be "yes" due to the whole love being blind thingPopular myth.
Myth designed to set people up for disappointment. For one thing , even assuming everyone is CIS, gender population imbalance alone guarantees that's not going to happen. Marriage for love is a rather modern concept.and there's someone for everyone out there.
True. You have some very good points.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
In the PF book "Blood of Angels", it says that while you'd normally assume tieflings and aasimars are natural enemies, they share being 'different' with mysterious origins, and ends with saying:
"...it's not unheard of for members of both races to find comfort and camaraderie across the imagined battle line."
|
Popular myth.
Depends on what you mean by a myth. In my experience, and not just personal experience, love tends to make one miss the flaws in the person one's in love with, including physical flaws like being relatively unattractive. So...it's certainly close to true in some cases.
Myth designed to set people up for disappointment. For one thing , even assuming everyone is CIS, gender population imbalance alone guarantees that's not going to happen. Marriage for love is a rather modern concept.
There are 7 billion people on Earth. There are lots of people out there for everyone who they could absolutely be happy with. Not everyone will find such a person, but they sure as hell exist. Now, are people divided in such a way that everyone could be happy? Probably not, but frankly that's both unknowable and irrelevant to the life of any individual person. The phrase "There's someone out there for everyone." is perhaps technically inaccurate, but it's certainly accurate in practice for any individual person.
As for gender imbalances...polyamory and asexual/aromantic people might or might not fix that issue, though again, that's pretty much unknowable and irrelevant.
Popular myth.Depends on what you mean by a myth. In my experience, and not just personal experience, love tends to make one miss the flaws in the person one's in love with, including physical flaws like being relatively unattractive. So...it's certainly close to true in some cases.
Myth designed to set people up for disappointment. For one thing , even assuming everyone is CIS, gender population imbalance alone guarantees that's not going to happen. Marriage for love is a rather modern concept.There are 7 billion people on Earth. There are lots of people out there for everyone who they could absolutely be happy with. Not everyone will find such a person, but they sure as hell exist. Now, are people divided in such a way that everyone could be happy? Probably not, but frankly that's both unknowable and irrelevant to the life of any individual person. The phrase "There's someone out there for everyone." is perhaps technically inaccurate, but it's certainly accurate in practice for any individual person.
As for gender imbalances...polyamory and asexual/aromantic people might or might not fix that issue, though again, that's pretty much unknowable and irrelevant.
You also have very good points on this subject. I can see the arguement from both sides.
There was a sidebar in Bastards of Golarion to build hybrids more complicated than half-elf or half-orc, by using the point-built race system from the ARG. I guess it could be used to build an interesting Aasimar/Tiefling hybrid (or several actually).
Very cool! If I go through with this idea, I'll look it up. I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the subject. If I do, then the two npcs would just be somewhat married when the PCs meet them (not officially married, but married via tiefling customs).
Someone for everyone: Let us assume for a given person, there are X possible good partners. X will vary, from a definite 0 for some, to a very large number for others. The problem is that many people don't meet enough possible partners in a situation that could lead to a start of a relationship. If you don't meet them, a very large X won't help. So, no, not for everyone, but for most.
Popular myth.Depends on what you mean by a myth. In my experience, and not just personal experience, love tends to make one miss the flaws in the person one's in love with, including physical flaws like being relatively unattractive. So...it's certainly close to true in some cases.
That's probably why the divorce rate is the way it is, along with spousal abuse and broken homes in general.
Love is a terrible thing to marry for, compatibility is far more important.
I suppose I assumed that they would be natural enemies due to their opposite heritages. And I was wrong on that.
Thank you all for your thoughts so far!
Bruh, Tiefling just means someone in your family line banged/consorted with a devil or demon, just like Aasimar is the same only with Celestials.
It's very possible to get an evil, cranky Aasimar or a goody-goody Tiefling, it's all in the upbringing and life experiences. Hell, there's a cutie redeemed Succubus in Wrath of the Righteous with a romance arc and I'm like 85% sure any children you get from her would be Tieflings.
Paizo has examples of a catgirl and a harpy dating in Shattered Star. I think the world can handle an aasimar/tiefling couple.
I'd probably do a custom race with the race builder that has some abilities from both, or completely different abilities that reflect both of the heritages. I did that in a kingmaker game where the half orc barbarian king sired a child of a nixie. Fun times.
Re divorce: It's also worth noting that divorce (especially no-fault divorce) actually being a reasonably available option is relatively new.
In the days of yore, a married couple that were hated each other were usually just stuck with each other.
Re tiefling/aasimar pairing - I'd be inclined for the kid to be human, unless the involved tiefling/aasimar bloodlines seem conducive to a more interesting result.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's probably why the divorce rate is the way it is, along with spousal abuse and broken homes in general.
The often cited 50% divorce rate is misleading, since it includes the guy who's been married six times as six divorces, while the successful marriages each only count once for obvious reasons. Which isn't to say divorces don't happen, just that the statistics are misleading, since a lot of people who fail one marriage will try it again, with mixed success.
And both abuse and 'broken homes' (whatever the latter means to you) are indications something is terribly wrong, but certainly not restricted to love matches.
Love is a terrible thing to marry for, compatibility is far more important.
I'd argue you need both, and indeed that real love involves a fair degree of compatibility. I actually have some science to back that up come to think of it...yes, I know that's wikipedia, but speaking as a Psych student, it's also a description of a legitimate psychological theory.
Thank you all for the input, thoughts, and ideas! I am aware of Arueshalae and am in love with the idea of a redeemed succubus. I also know that aasimars and tieflings can have different walks of life (Nualia being a prime example of this). I look forward to hearing more on this subject.
Some options.
Aasimar sorcerer with a fiendish related bloodline
Tiefling Sorcerer with a celestial related bloodline
Crossblooded human with both
Aasimar with the scion of humanity and racial heritage tiefling feat.
That last one doesn't work -- Racial Heritage requires that you pick a humanoid races, and tieflings are not humanoid.
If tiefling characteristics are dominant, then the offspring of a tiefling and anything else would be a tiefling -- from Hell's Pawns, it is evident that Chelaxians are horrified at the possibility of tiefling who can pass for human, so that would support the idea that tiefling blood normally cannot be diluted over the generations.
On the other hand, a periborn aasimar with cosmetic tiefling features would seem to be the perfect compromise for an aasimar/tiefling hybrid.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have played such a pairing! They were in Wrath of the Righteous together. They were Gabrielle (female tiefling paladin) and Raphael (male aasimar ranger). They were both orphans who grew up together and then eventually fell in love and were married.
Because they'd known and relied on one another since childhood, their bond of trust was very deep, and the fact that they came from different bloodlines wasn't even an issue.
They worked as a team all the time and were really a very sweet and loving couple.
I have played such a pairing! They were in Wrath of the Righteous together. They were Gabrielle (female tiefling paladin) and Raphael (male aasimar ranger). They were both orphans who grew up together and then eventually fell in love and were married.
Because they'd known and relied on one another since childhood, their bond of trust was very deep, and the fact that they came from different bloodlines wasn't even an issue.
They worked as a team all the time and were really a very sweet and loving couple.
Very nice! I'm very interested in hearing about specific moments and stories!
|
I have two identical twin Aasimar sisters. One is a Paladin (Order of the Godclaw) and the other is an Antipaladin (Fire Mountain's Lord of Darkness archetype, Order of the Godclaw) who are both Hellknights (again, Order of the Godclaw) and their mentor/lover is a Teifling Magus/Hellknight (Order of the Godclaw, he's Lawful Neutral)
All three being dedicated to the Law, they generally work well together because the paladin doesn't go out of her way to do good that the antipaladin would object to, and vice versa, and their mentor/lover kinda keeps them both on the straight and narrow Law path. It's a slippery slope for them both, but... they respect each other as fellow Order of the Godclaw and as sisters.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Very nice! I'm very interested in hearing about specific moments and stories!
Hmmm, I think the sweetest part of their wedding. It wasn't lavish or pre-planned and there weren't even any guests. But the person who officiated for them was pretty amazing.
Later that night, Iomedae visited the PCs individually to thank them and offer them a reward. Gabrielle (the tiefling paladin) had been acting as the temporary herald. She’s the kind of Paladin who is very brave, selfless and humble, so when asked what she wanted for her reward, she replied “I have only wanted two things in all of my life; to serve you, Iomedae with all of my heart and soul, and to have Raphael at my side. I am already as happy as anyone ever could be. Please use whatever reward you would have given me to help the people up in Kenebres as they are in need of so much.”
Iomedae was pleased by Gabrielle’s generosity and said she had chosen well making Gabrielle her (temporary) herald. The Goddess then turned to Raphael (the aasimar ranger) and asked him if he would like a reward.
Raphael dropped to his knee and bowed deeply to his Goddess. “I am in need of nothing, my Lady. The fact that you have chosen us to help you in such an important quest in more than enough.” He looked up, a bit shyly, “But if there is one small thing I might ask for, it would be for your blessing. I love Gabrielle and I wish to marry her. There are some who will think we are not appropriate mates, but if we had your blessing, we would be so happy.”
Iomedae smiled. Not only did she give her blessing, but she actually married them herself right there and then. Gabrielle and Raphael made their vows to one another in the physical presence of their Goddess.
It really played out as a perfect scene for them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you, Zelda and Pipefox! Those are some awesome stories!
Also given that Ragathiel has at least one known bastard I could see Tieflings or Aasimar claiming relation to him oddly enough.
I didn't know about that. Source?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This isn't as well-developed as other things I've read on the thread, but, here goes...
In the Shattered Star PbP I'm in, my character is a pit-born tiefling rogue who clawed his way up from the gutters of Magnimar to become a Pathfinder, in the hopes of getting out of the criminal lifestyle he grew up with. Our current party is almost entirely human, but one of the former members was an aasimar urban druidess with malformed legs. She left the party because her player dropped from the campaign.
For the longest time, the aasimar kept flirting with my rogue. Unfortunately, thanks to a combination of my character not having any ranks in Sense Motive and having a WIS modifier of 0, I didn't get it until much later. She even hugged my character in the aftermath of the first adventure's opening encounter, and I didn't clue in on it.
But there was one time our party split up to gather information on our next task, and my rogue and the druidess went off to see a fortuneteller with our sorcerer. My rogue asked her why she walked the way she did. Here's the quote that should have clued me in on her attraction:
"Birth defect. No shame in asking, people always do. It's alright. It makes me more attractive to burglars, less so to slavers."
And I'm not even kidding when I say my first reaction upon reading that was:
"Well, I guess that makes sense--pickpockets would have an easier time outrunning you."
I'm still kicking myself for not getting it until recently.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That is actually sort of sweet in an awkward kind of way. Pity the player had to drop out of the game, but definitely the sort of thing you want to end the campaign and say "I think I need to see a druidess about pick pocketing."This isn't as well-developed as other things I've read on the thread, but, here goes...
In the Shattered Star PbP I'm in, my character is a pit-born tiefling rogue who clawed his way up from the gutters of Magnimar to become a Pathfinder, in the hopes of getting out of the criminal lifestyle he grew up with. Our current party is almost entirely human, but one of the former members was an aasimar urban druidess with malformed legs. She left the party because her player dropped from the campaign.
For the longest time, the aasimar kept flirting with my rogue. Unfortunately, thanks to a combination of my character not having any ranks in Sense Motive and having a WIS modifier of 0, I didn't get it until much later. She even hugged my character in the aftermath of the first adventure's opening encounter, and I didn't clue in on it.
But there was one time our party split up to gather information on our next task, and my rogue and the druidess went off to see a fortuneteller with our sorcerer. My rogue asked her why she walked the way she did. Here's the quote that should have clued me in on her attraction:
"Birth defect. No shame in asking, people always do. It's alright. It makes me more attractive to burglars, less so to slavers."And I'm not even kidding when I say my first reaction upon reading that was:
"Well, I guess that makes sense--pickpockets would have an easier time outrunning you."I'm still kicking myself for not getting it until recently.
I didn't actually post those thoughts, but I'm really angry at myself for missing out on that opportunity. :)
We're still getting through the first book of the AP--we're not ending the campaign yet (I hope...). And in fact, by the time the druidess left, my tiefling had more or less figured out that she was into him, but still had no real idea what to do about it.
The GM was kind enough to keep the druidess around as an NPC when the player left. Partway through the first dungeon, she had a bit of a panic attack that resulted in my rogue holding her until she was able to calm down. When she was able to get herself together, she handed off the most important bits of her gear--some silvered arrows and a ring of feather falling that we picked up earlier. She gave my rogue the ring, then we shared one last look before she had to leave.
I'd argue that my character was the most disappointed to see her go--all the more reason to finish the mission and report back in to Venture-Captain Heidmarch. :)
Thank you, dragoncat! Im actually reading through your Shattered Star pbp thread to learn more. Very fun!
|
For a homebrew campaign that died I had an aasimar cleric/sorcerer who was married to a tiefling rogue/wizard. They did have a kid. Cute little mixed up bugger with bunny ears purple skin and black little furry hooved legs.
They met when his mother (a powerful) human cleric ended up battling an evil wizard whom had the young tiefling lass locked away in his dungeons along with a few others. She freed them, only to learn that the young woman was an orphan. Feeling sorry for the girl she brought her home and they just sort of.... clicked together.
I mean aasimar dont always have the easiest time of things either,
Very nice story! I have read Rise of the Runelords and own the anniversary edition. Very tragic stuff with her.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do not think that is actually the issue for them. I think the issue was that Cheliax is bunch of bigots, and the idea of what are essentially devil infused non-humans walking around like people horrifies them.
Also going against the idea that Tiefling blood is diluted is that there are half-fiends which are believed to lead to tieflings eventually. Also the fact there are the various sorceror and bloodrager bloodlines that trace back to lower planes outsiders.
I guess I should have said further diluted beyond the half-fiend to tiefling transition. For the sorcerer bloodlines, actual ancestry is not the only way to acquire them -- other forms of influence could also be factors.
A key plot point in one of the Varian/Radovan stories involves the discovery of completely human looking tieflings in various Chelaxian noble families -- although given that many of them evidently have actual devil parents, the real mystery is how they can look completely human when they should actually be half-fiends. Anyway, the reaction of the queen was to hang each and every member of every family in which such "tieflings" were discovered. This story could provide an explanation as to why there is no counterpart for the "Scion of Humanity" aasimar racial trait among tieflings.
However, if fiendish blood can be a recessive trait that can lie dormant for many generations, then Asmodeus would have an all too easy way to wipe out any Chelaxian noble family that he takes a dislike to -- just arrange for a tiefling to be born into that family with subtle fiendish traits that do not become evident until puberty. Chelaxian bigotry would take care of the rest.
There is even a spell that links you to Mammon who if you conceive or beget while under you have a tiefling.
I'm not familiar with that one, what is it called and where is it from?
Contributor
|
I'm not familiar with that one, what is it called and where is it from?There is even a spell that links you to Mammon who if you conceive or beget while under you have a tiefling.
Genius Avaricious, from Council of Thieves' article on Mammon. Found in The Twice-Damned Prince, page 69.
For what it's worth, James Jacobs answered this question here. For those who don't want to follow, he says that it's usually a full-blooded Aasimar or Tiefling whichever bloodline is stronger. It can be just a plain human but that's rarer.
I will dispute the idea that Tieflings and Aasimars "are at odds with each other or are enemies."
But half-elves, half-orcs, fetchlings and—most oddly—aasimars tend to view them as kindred spirits who are too often rejected or who don't fit into most societies by virtue of their birth.
One of my current characters is a Tiefling Bloodrager in a romance with my girlfriend's Aasimar Shaman. We've already planned for the epilogue with two children both Aasimars with wings but with the Tiefling's darker complexion.
When deciding whether the tiefling/aasimar pairing from our game would eventually breed an aasimar or a tiefling, our DM was a bit at a loss and figured it would be a 50/50 chance and that we'd just roll and let the dice decide. ;)
Genius Avaricious, from Council of Thieves' article on Mammon. Found in The Twice-Damned Prince, page 69.
Whoa, that spell is neat. I wonder if there is an opposite spell that can help you have an aasimar?
|
Contributor
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Whoa, that spell is neat. I wonder if there is an opposite spell that can help you have an aasimar?
Genius Avaricious, from Council of Thieves' article on Mammon. Found in The Twice-Damned Prince, page 69.
Not thus far, unfortunately, at least across first-party material. The closest thing is the veranallia azata's Rebirth ability, which can reincarnate someone as an aasimar.
That said, research away! ^_^
Genius Avaricious seems like a fun spell to play with.
I do wonder if there are versions of it for other Archdevils as well.
|
Contributor
|
I suspect that genius avaricious has no equivalent among the Nine, since so much of its power seems to come from the embodiment of Mammon within the coin. However, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be spells meant to grant other archdevils' power to mortals, or ever create offspring (looking at you, Belial).
If people are interested, I could try my hand at writing a few. At that point, though, we should probably take it to a new thread - we're derailing here. ^_^
While I highly doubt it happening, I would not mind a romance between a certain Tiefling Necromancer and one of the possible Aasimar characters that will be coming up in future campaigns.