What is the DC to leap across a ten foot wide pit?


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Sczarni

thejeff wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Nefreet wrote:


Yikes. Alright. Let's walk through this.

[A][X][B][GIANT PIT THAT IS IMMEASURABLE]

Forget jumping at all.

A character in square A wants to travel (walk, fly, climb, skip, whatever) to square B.

How much movement does that require?

(please say 10ft please say 10ft please say 10ft)

10' of movement to move from A to B. Correct.

How much space do X & B take up? The answer is also 10', I hope.

Therefore you can run 10' in just X & B, enough to get your running start at the pit.

Yes. Beginning at A, you move 5ft into X, and then 10ft into B.

For some reason I thought you were disagreeing with that.

If you're in A and want to move to B, it takes 10' of movement.

But X & B, by themselves, even if there is no A, but a wall there or something, are enough space to get a 10' running start. Right? There's 10' there. You should be able to run 10' in 10' of distance.

I'm clearly getting a headache from this back and forth, so if you're trying to subtly suggest something, I'm missing it.

If you start from A, you have 10ft to gain your running start (going through X and B).

If you start from X, you only have 5ft, insufficient to gain a running start (as you're only going through B).

It's not particularly subtle - though it's easy to miss stuff in a thread moving as fast as this one is.

The length of the 2 squares X and B is 10'. I say that's enough to run 10' in. Which it kind of has to be, since there's 10' there.

You're saying that you need a length of 15' to get a 10' running start. That's just weird.

Why is it weird?

GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.

GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.


Nefreet wrote:
Entertaining the 1ft increment idea, you'd need at least a DC 11 to jump over the 10ft pit, travelling 11ft total.

*sigh*

The distance you travel in the air when you long jump 10ft is exactly 10ft. That means if I take a measuring tape from your toe to the back of your heal, it's 10ft. 10ft is exactly what you need to jump to clear a 10ft pit. It's not 11ft.

Now, the distance from toe-to-toe is actually more than 10ft, like if you have a size 25 foot.. If you jump 10ft, you've moved farther than 10ft, but Pathfinder requires that you spend 5ft of movement to be in that square. But it's 100% incorrect to say you need even 10'1" to clear a 10ft pit. The definition of a long jump is that your distance jumped is what your entire body cleared.

Now, maybe what you mean to say is that when you jump 10ft, you've actually moved 11? Sure, I'll buy that for a dollar. But you aren't jumping 11ft to clear a 10ft pit. You're jumping exactly 10ft.


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Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

And land on the other side?

DC 12. Assuming a running start. You're traveling 12ft of distance.

Wait again.

Why a 12' distance. You're standing in square A, which is part floor and 2' of pit. You jump from there over B, which is all pit and land in C, which is floor again.
By your argument that should be DC 10, since you're moving 2 squares.
If you think you have to Start in the square before A, then it would be 15, 3 squares.

How do you get 12?

Again, this is why I dislike odd numbers for this.

Traveling 15ft, jumping over a 10ft pit, would require a DC 15 Acrobatics check.

Distance = DC

Traveling 12ft, jumping over a 7ft pit, would require a DC 12 Acrobatics check.

Distance = DC

You have to count the square you land in. That's where you end your jump. That's where the Olympic committee draws the line in the sand. That's the distance of your jump.

You don't count the square you started in. You count the square you end in. Just like any other mode of movement.

So how do I travel 12ft? That doesn't put you me any grid square? the 7ft pit is part of the squares and grid system.

Why do you have to "count the square you land in" since that's not distance you're needing to cover with your jump, that's just distance you need to account for by end of turn.


I would state the divide is from this line "DC ... equal distance to be crossed."

Some believe that that means the DC is the distance you move. Others, like myself, believe the DC isn't related to your movement, but only the distance that has to be moved via a jump.

I'll try another example. Lets keep our 10' chasm, but this time there is a bridge. I think everyone would agree that the to move from one side (standing on the ground) across the bridge and end up on the other side, again standing on the ground, would take 15' of movement.

The question I have then, is would you describe the bridge as crossing 10' or 15'?

If it takes a 10' bridge and 15 feet of movement to cross the chasm, why wouldn't it also take a 10' jump and 15 movement to cross the chasm?

Sczarni

dragonhunterq wrote:
Since when did 'the distance to be crossed' = 'the distance to be crossed + the distance to land + an arbitrary amount to comply with a granular movement system'?

Some people count the 5ft before the landing as "distance crossed".

Sczarni

_Ozy_ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

And land on the other side?

DC 12. Assuming a running start. You're traveling 12ft of distance.

No you aren't, you're moving 15 feet. Movement is in 5 foot increments.

According to your ideas, any pit 6 to 10 feet would take a DC 15. Specifically contradicted, btw, by SKR.

I was entertaining his odd number.


Nefreet wrote:
dragonhunterq wrote:
Since when did 'the distance to be crossed' = 'the distance to be crossed + the distance to land + an arbitrary amount to comply with a granular movement system'?
Some people count the 5ft before the landing as "distance crossed".

And just to be clear, you're one of those people, correct?


Nefreet wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

And land on the other side?

DC 12. Assuming a running start. You're traveling 12ft of distance.

No you aren't, you're moving 15 feet. Movement is in 5 foot increments.

According to your ideas, any pit 6 to 10 feet would take a DC 15. Specifically contradicted, btw, by SKR.

I was entertaining his odd number.

Then entertain his odd number using the actual grid system. you're in square A you want to get to square B 30ft away. In the path is a 7ft pit. What's the DC to jump this pit that is within the grid system?


Nefreet wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

And land on the other side?

DC 12. Assuming a running start. You're traveling 12ft of distance.

No you aren't, you're moving 15 feet. Movement is in 5 foot increments.

According to your ideas, any pit 6 to 10 feet would take a DC 15. Specifically contradicted, btw, by SKR.

I was entertaining his odd number.

I'm not asking for entertainment, I'm asking for your interpretation of the rules.

7 foot pits are certainly allowed by the rules, 12 foot movement is not. According to your interpretation, and following the rules, all pits 6 to 10 feet wide would need a DC 15.

Why would you even answer DC12?

Sczarni

N N 959 wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Entertaining the 1ft increment idea, you'd need at least a DC 11 to jump over the 10ft pit, travelling 11ft total.

*sigh*

The distance you travel in the air when you long jump 10ft is exactly 10ft. That means if I take a measuring tape from your toe to the back of your heal, it's 10ft. 10ft is exactly what you need to jump to clear a 10ft pit. It's not 11ft.

Now, the distance from toe-to-toe is actually more than 10ft, like if you have a size 25 foot.. If you jump 10ft, you've moved farther than 10ft, but Pathfinder requires that you spend 5ft of movement to be in that square. But it's 100% incorrect to say you need even 10'1" to clear a 10ft pit. The definition of a long jump is that your distance jumped is what your entire body cleared.

Now, maybe what you mean to say is that when you jump 10ft, you've actually moved 11? Sure, I'll buy that for a dollar. But you aren't jumping 11ft to clear a 10ft pit. You're jumping exactly 10ft.

And I think it was adequately expressed earlier that that doesn't fly.

Dig the pit yourself and try it out. If the pit, wall to wall, measures exactly 10ft, then jumping 10ft isn't going to be enough to clear it.

In any other real world metric, and Pathfinder is really no different in this, you measure the point your toe touches from when you take off to where your toe touches when you land.

If that's only 10ft, then congratulations, that spot happens to be where the acid pit is.

Sczarni

Dave Justus wrote:

I would state the divide is from this line "DC ... equal distance to be crossed."

Some believe that that means the DC is the distance you move. Others, like myself, believe the DC isn't related to your movement, but only the distance that has to be moved via a jump.

I'll try another example. Lets keep our 10' chasm, but this time there is a bridge. I think everyone would agree that the to move from one side (standing on the ground) across the bridge and end up on the other side, again standing on the ground, would take 15' of movement.

The question I have then, is would you describe the bridge as crossing 10' or 15'?

If it takes a 10' bridge and 15 feet of movement to cross the chasm, why wouldn't it also take a 10' jump and 15 movement to cross the chasm?

I tried those examples way back on page 2 of this thread. It didn't work =P


Not even close. Jumps are ALWAYS measured toe to heel.

If someone asks me how far I can jump, toe to heel is how I measure it.


But the DC isn't asking you to measure where your toe leaves the ground to where it lands. The rules are only interested in the distance to be covered. Sure you might need to physically jump 11', but the DC is still 10 because that's the distance you need to clear.


Nefreet wrote:


Dig the pit yourself and try it out. If the pit, wall to wall, measures exactly 10ft, then jumping 10ft isn't going to be enough to clear it.

That's completely false, demonstrably so.

Go home and lay out a tape measure. Put two chairs 5ft apart. Now, let's pretend you stand on one chair jump to the second chair. What is the distance between your toe from the first chair to our heel on the second chair.

I'll give you a hint. It's exactly 5ft. Let's move it out to 10ft between the chairs...guess what the distance you will have jumped is to go from one chair to the other?

Quote:
In any other real world metric, and Pathfinder is really no different in this, you measure the point your toe touches from when you take off to where your toe touches when you land.

Wow.. you completely missed the other conversation in this thread.

Go look up the definition of "long jump" and see how it's measured.

Toe....to...heel.

The jump in the PRD is specifically a "long jump" and is measured toe-to-heel. Ergo, I need to jump exactly 10ft to clear a 10ft pit.


**Is stunned at the number of posts a simple question has spawned**

Sczarni

Chess Pwn wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
dragonhunterq wrote:
Since when did 'the distance to be crossed' = 'the distance to be crossed + the distance to land + an arbitrary amount to comply with a granular movement system'?
Some people count the 5ft before the landing as "distance crossed".
And just to be clear, you're one of those people, correct?

Absolutely.

Sczarni

Chess Pwn wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

And land on the other side?

DC 12. Assuming a running start. You're traveling 12ft of distance.

No you aren't, you're moving 15 feet. Movement is in 5 foot increments.

According to your ideas, any pit 6 to 10 feet would take a DC 15. Specifically contradicted, btw, by SKR.

I was entertaining his odd number.
Then entertain his odd number using the actual grid system. you're in square A you want to get to square B 30ft away. In the path is a 7ft pit. What's the DC to jump this pit that is within the grid system?

I think I've answered that adequately up until this point.

Some people just can't stop tossing out odd numbers, so I was trying to come at it from their angle.

Shadow Lodge

DungeonmasterCal wrote:
**Is stunned at the number of posts a simple question has spawned**

Why are you so surprised? This is the internet.

Sczarni

_Ozy_ wrote:
Why would you even answer DC12?

Surely you jest.

It's been my position from the beginning that we go by 5ft increments.

Many people in this thread continued to use odd numbers.

The moment I try to answer them in their language, you jump on me?

Hilarious.


Nefreet wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

And land on the other side?

DC 12. Assuming a running start. You're traveling 12ft of distance.

No you aren't, you're moving 15 feet. Movement is in 5 foot increments.

According to your ideas, any pit 6 to 10 feet would take a DC 15. Specifically contradicted, btw, by SKR.

I was entertaining his odd number.
Then entertain his odd number using the actual grid system. you're in square A you want to get to square B 30ft away. In the path is a 7ft pit. What's the DC to jump this pit that is within the grid system?

I think I've answered that adequately up until this point.

Some people just can't stop tossing out odd numbers, so I was trying to come at it from their angle.

Um, no, you realized that your interpretation breaks down using this example, so you refuse to answer it in context of the actual pathfinder rules governing movement.

A 7 foot pit is not an 'odd number' it's a completely legal and reasonable obstacle that would require a DC15 according to your 'rules' and a DC 7 according to everyone else.

Grand Lodge

To jump over a 5ft gap, the DC is 5. It is listed, plain as day.

Why? Well, the DC represents the measure the distance traveled during the jump, and not the distance traveled whilst landing.

So, jumping over a 5ft gap will require 10ft of movement, and a DC 5 Acrobatics check.

Easy. Done.

Sczarni

N N 959 wrote:
Nefreet wrote:


Dig the pit yourself and try it out. If the pit, wall to wall, measures exactly 10ft, then jumping 10ft isn't going to be enough to clear it.
That's completely false, demonstrably so.

Then I'm afraid we can't continue this discussion anymore. We both can't be right, but we're both sure we are.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I move 60ft. To do so, I must use Acrobatics across three pits, measuring 8, 10, and 15 respectively.

The distance crossed is equal to the width of the pit. Thanks to my 10ft start I have to succeed at DC 8, 10, and 15 respectively.


Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:

It's not particularly subtle - though it's easy to miss stuff in a thread moving as fast as this one is.

The length of the 2 squares X and B is 10'. I say that's enough to run 10' in. Which it kind of has to be, since there's 10' there.

You're saying that you need a length of 15' to get a 10' running start. That's just weird.

Why is it weird?

GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.

GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.

Step away from the grid for a moment. Let's go Theatre of the Mind (pretentious term for what we all used to do.) Assume there's no fight, just a simple environmental obstacle and I'm not going to bother drawing a map. Like we still do all the time.

GM: This long natural cavern has a deep 10' wide canyon running the length of it. There's a river raging at least 50' down. Your side of the cavern has a 10' wide ledge running about halfway down the length before it's blocked by a huge fallen boulder. On the other side of the canyon, the ledge is narrower, but continues past the blockage on this side. You can see a glimmer of light far down the passage. It could be the enemy you've been following. What do you do?

As the player, are you really going to think, "Well the ledge is only 10' wide, so there's no way I can get a 10' running start."?


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Nefreet wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Why would you even answer DC12?

Surely you jest.

It's been my position from the beginning that we go by 5ft increments.

Many people in this thread continued to use odd numbers.

The moment I try to answer them in their language, you jump on me?

Hilarious.

Um, yeah, I expect you to follow the rules in the rules forum. You clearly did not. It was a legal question, you gave an illegal answer.


Nefreet wrote:
N N 959 wrote:
Nefreet wrote:


Dig the pit yourself and try it out. If the pit, wall to wall, measures exactly 10ft, then jumping 10ft isn't going to be enough to clear it.
That's completely false, demonstrably so.
Then I'm afraid we can't continue this discussion anymore. We both can't be right, but we're both sure we are.

Fortunately we're not both right.

Long Jump definition wrote:
The competitor can initiate the jump from any point behind the foul line; however, the distance measured will always be perpendicular to the foul line to the nearest break in the sand caused by any part of the body or uniform.

The "nearest break in the sand" is your heel when landing on your feet, not your toe.

You do not measure long jump distances from your toe to your toe.

Sczarni

thejeff wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:

It's not particularly subtle - though it's easy to miss stuff in a thread moving as fast as this one is.

The length of the 2 squares X and B is 10'. I say that's enough to run 10' in. Which it kind of has to be, since there's 10' there.

You're saying that you need a length of 15' to get a 10' running start. That's just weird.

Why is it weird?

GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.

GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.

Step away from the grid for a moment. Let's go Theatre of the Mind (pretentious term for what we all used to do.) Assume there's no fight, just a simple environmental obstacle and I'm not going to bother drawing a map. Like we still do all the time.

GM: This long natural cavern has a deep 10' wide canyon running the length of it. There's a river raging at least 50' down. Your side of the cavern has a 10' wide ledge running about halfway down the length before it's blocked by a huge fallen boulder. On the other side of the canyon, the ledge is narrower, but continues past the blockage on this side. You can see a glimmer of light far down the passage. It could be the enemy you've been following. What do you do?

As the player, are you really going to think, "Well the ledge is only 10' wide, so there's no way I can get a 10' running start."?

Continuing with "theatre of the mind", I would back up to the wall behind me, flush up against it, and charge forward to gain the maximum jumping distance.

In Pathfinder, I move two squares forward.

Unless you think that taking a 5ft step means never leaving your square.

Sczarni

_Ozy_ wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Why would you even answer DC12?

Surely you jest.

It's been my position from the beginning that we go by 5ft increments.

Many people in this thread continued to use odd numbers.

The moment I try to answer them in their language, you jump on me?

Hilarious.

Um, yeah, I expect you to follow the rules in the rules forum. You clearly did not. It was a legal question, you gave an illegal answer.

And that's the straw that'll break this Tengu's back.

I'm going to take a break from this.


Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
thejeff wrote:

It's not particularly subtle - though it's easy to miss stuff in a thread moving as fast as this one is.

The length of the 2 squares X and B is 10'. I say that's enough to run 10' in. Which it kind of has to be, since there's 10' there.

You're saying that you need a length of 15' to get a 10' running start. That's just weird.

Why is it weird?

GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.

GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.

Step away from the grid for a moment. Let's go Theatre of the Mind (pretentious term for what we all used to do.) Assume there's no fight, just a simple environmental obstacle and I'm not going to bother drawing a map. Like we still do all the time.

GM: This long natural cavern has a deep 10' wide canyon running the length of it. There's a river raging at least 50' down. Your side of the cavern has a 10' wide ledge running about halfway down the length before it's blocked by a huge fallen boulder. On the other side of the canyon, the ledge is narrower, but continues past the blockage on this side. You can see a glimmer of light far down the passage. It could be the enemy you've been following. What do you do?

As the player, are you really going to think, "Well the ledge is only 10' wide, so there's no way I can get a 10' running start."?

Continuing with "theatre of the mind", I would back up to the wall behind me, flush up against it, and charge forward to gain the maximum jumping distance.

In Pathfinder, I move two squares forward.

Unless you think that taking a 5ft step means never leaving your square.

So you wouldn't do that in Pathfinder? You would say that you couldn't get the running start?

Even in PF, not everything is squares. If you have 10' of ground to work with, you can get a 10' running start. If you need to jump a 10' gap, you only need to jump 10', not 15'.


thejeff wrote:


As the player, are you really going to think, "Well the ledge is only 10' wide, so there's no way I can get a 10' running start."?

Technically, I would agree with Nefreet on this one. To get 10' of movement benefit, you need to jump from the 3rd square. I don't believe the square you start from counts as part of the running distance...but I could be wrong.


While we're on the topic of jumping:

Can a player jump multiple times during the same move action?

Can a player ignore the movement costs of difficult terrain by jumping?

Combining the above two:
Can a player largely ignore difficult terrain by making a series of small jumps?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
N N 959 wrote:
thejeff wrote:


As the player, are you really going to think, "Well the ledge is only 10' wide, so there's no way I can get a 10' running start."?

Technically, I would agree with Nefreet on this one. To get 10' of movement benefit, you need to jump from the 3rd square. I don't believe the square you start from counts as part of the running distance...but I could be wrong.

That's why I come at the jump from an angle down the corridor. ;)


N N 959 wrote:
thejeff wrote:


As the player, are you really going to think, "Well the ledge is only 10' wide, so there's no way I can get a 10' running start."?
Technically, I would agree with Nefreet on this one. To get 10' of movement benefit, you need to jump from the 3rd square. I don't believe the square you start from counts as part of the running distance...but I could be wrong.

Another vote for "You need 15' to get a 10' running start."

That's so weird. I mean, I see how you get there when you think about it only in squares, but when you say it in actual distances it makes no sense at all.


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What's the DC for a titan to jump across a 10' pit, assuming a running start?

Is it 10 or is it 40?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

so, what is the DC to jump across a pit that is 10 ft across but begins halfway through a square, then takes a full square and then ends half way through another square?


Personally, I would use the ACTUAL distance of the jump to calculate the DC.

There's nothing in the Acrobatics skill description that refers to squares. The DC is set by the distance, in feet, of the jump.

While your character may need to move in quantum intervals, this does not mean you must also automatically apply this to everything else that happens in combat...


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

still say DC 10 since not all of the movement need be jumping.

Silver Crusade

For what it's worth, if Nefreet's interpretation is correct, then an ancient red dragon cannot jump a 5-foot gap even with a running start.

The dragon occupies a (20-ft x 20-ft) space, so must move 25 ft to jump to the other side of the 5-foot wide pit. So the DC is 25, with a running start. With a 10-foot running start, it moves at least 35 feet. But that isn't a problem for the dragon, because he has a speed of 40 ft.

His speed of 40 ft. gives him a +4 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump horizontal distance. His Dex is 8, so he takes a –1 to Acrobatics checks. He has no ranks in Acrobatics, so his final modifier is +3. Even if he rolls a natural 20, the farthest gap he can cross is 3 feet wide. To jump over a line drawn on the floor in chalk, the dragon needs to roll a 17 or better.


Bandw2 wrote:
WHAT IS THE DC TO JUMP A 7FT PIT.

Depends on whether or not you have a -4.

:P


Creatures occupying multiple squares sure do muddy the situation don't they?

I'm now on the DC=distance traversed bandwagon, not the +1 foot argument I presented earlier.

Simple to remember.


Quote:
The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal)... .

The word used in the skill description is "crossed." My character wants to cross a 10 foot wide pit, therefore the DC of the jump is 10. The DC isn't based on the distance my character has to jump, but the intervening space while I'm in the air during the jump--the distance to be crossed. I'm not sure why this is bringing up such a fervor of debate. Seems pretty clear to me.

Grand Lodge

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The Fox wrote:

For what it's worth, if Nefreet's interpretation is correct, then an ancient red dragon cannot jump a 5-foot gap even with a running start.

The dragon occupies a (20-ft x 20-ft) space, so must move 25 ft to jump to the other side of the 5-foot wide pit. So the DC is 25, with a running start. With a 10-foot running start, it moves at least 35 feet. But that isn't a problem for the dragon, because he has a speed of 40 ft.

His speed of 40 ft. gives him a +4 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump horizontal distance. His Dex is 8, so he takes a –1 to Acrobatics checks. He has no ranks in Acrobatics, so his final modifier is +3. Even if he rolls a natural 20, the farthest gap he can cross is 3 feet wide. To jump over a line drawn on the floor in chalk, the dragon needs to roll a 17 or better.

Note to self: Challenge Ancient Red Dragons to games of hopscotch.


This is the dumbest thread I've read since the fighter bonus feats thread. Please carry on.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Fox wrote:

For what it's worth, if Nefreet's interpretation is correct, then an ancient red dragon cannot jump a 5-foot gap even with a running start.

The dragon occupies a (20-ft x 20-ft) space, so must move 25 ft to jump to the other side of the 5-foot wide pit. So the DC is 25, with a running start. With a 10-foot running start, it moves at least 35 feet. But that isn't a problem for the dragon, because he has a speed of 40 ft.

His speed of 40 ft. gives him a +4 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump horizontal distance. His Dex is 8, so he takes a –1 to Acrobatics checks. He has no ranks in Acrobatics, so his final modifier is +3. Even if he rolls a natural 20, the farthest gap he can cross is 3 feet wide. To jump over a line drawn on the floor in chalk, the dragon needs to roll a 17 or better.

Dragons don't bother jumping. Dragons can fly.


The Fox wrote:

For what it's worth, if Nefreet's interpretation is correct, then an ancient red dragon cannot jump a 5-foot gap even with a running start.

The dragon occupies a (20-ft x 20-ft) space, so must move 25 ft to jump to the other side of the 5-foot wide pit. So the DC is 25, with a running start. With a 10-foot running start, it moves at least 35 feet. But that isn't a problem for the dragon, because he has a speed of 40 ft.

His speed of 40 ft. gives him a +4 bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump horizontal distance. His Dex is 8, so he takes a –1 to Acrobatics checks. He has no ranks in Acrobatics, so his final modifier is +3. Even if he rolls a natural 20, the farthest gap he can cross is 3 feet wide. To jump over a line drawn on the floor in chalk, the dragon needs to roll a 17 or better.

That's ok. The dragon can walk over a 5' pit. A creature larger than a 5' square is considered to be occupying all of its squares. It is simultaneously on both sides of the pit as it crosses. This does not mean that walking over the pit cuts a 5' wide line through the dragon as individual squares of the dragon cross the pit, mind you.

The crux of this argument has always been one of "how do we measure movement?" My impression is that the only reasonable way to measure movement by type is to account for how you entered each terrain, as noted in the Special Movement Rules section. The specific section I'm referring to is under the diagram.

Special Movement Rules wrote:
The fighter's first move costs him 5 feet (or 1 square). His next costs 5 feet also, but his third (his 2nd diagonal) costs him 10 feet. Next he moves into difficult terrain, also costing him 10 feet. At this point (#6), the fighter has moved 30 feet—one move action. The last square is a diagonal move in difficult terrain, which costs 15 feet; he must spend his turn's standard action to move this far.

Thus, entering a square's terrain is the determination of the movement required.

As such:

[A][B][B][P][P][C]

With [A] being the starting point, [B] being normal terrain, [C] being the destination (also normal terrain), and [P] being a pit, the character enters each square [B] as normal land movement, enters each square [P] as jumping, and enters square [C] as normal land movement. The character has moved a total of 25' of measured distance.


Just goes to show that there is no such thing as a rule so clear that everyone agrees on the interpretation.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm with DungeonmasterCal, with the caveat that running out of movement could cause you to fall.

That's another FAQ candidate. Running out of movement doesn't cause you to fail - it just means you're going to be using the first part of next round's movement to complete the jump. You don't slam into an imaginary wall and stop moving at the end of your turn, any more than you fail to cast a one-round spell if you start it with a standard action at the end of your turn.


JohnF wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm with DungeonmasterCal, with the caveat that running out of movement could cause you to fall.
That's another FAQ candidate. Running out of movement doesn't cause you to fail - it just means you're going to be using the first part of next round's movement to complete the jump. You don't slam into an imaginary wall and stop moving at the end of your turn, any more than you fail to cast a one-round spell if you start it with a standard action at the end of your turn.

There actually is a weird force at work in settings governed by the Pathfinder RPG rules that completely eliminates the momentum of every flying creature at every 6 second interval, as if they slam into just such an imaginary wall. So, there is precedent, and lacking a definite answer in the text of the jumping rules, one might extend this absurdity to the concept of jumping, in order to at least achieve some kind of bizarre consistency.


Wow. This thread is insane. Try breaking this down into its simplest form.

If you move is 30ft, and you move 10ft before the pit, 10ft across the pit, and 10ft after the pit, you moved 30ft with the caveat that 10ft of that movement required a DC 10 Acrobatics roll.

If you move is 30ft, and you move 10ft before the pit, 10ft of which 7ft is across the pit, and 10ft after the pit, you moved 30ft with the caveat that 7ft of that movement required a DC 7 Acrobatics roll.

There, no advanced physics degree required.

EDIT: And the worst part is that most of you will probably gloss over this and continue to argue instead of considering an application of Occam's Razor. And they will will forget that is only a game. /sarcasm

EDIT EDIT: Like I said, it continues...


Forseti wrote:
JohnF wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm with DungeonmasterCal, with the caveat that running out of movement could cause you to fall.
That's another FAQ candidate. Running out of movement doesn't cause you to fail - it just means you're going to be using the first part of next round's movement to complete the jump. You don't slam into an imaginary wall and stop moving at the end of your turn, any more than you fail to cast a one-round spell if you start it with a standard action at the end of your turn.
There actually is a weird force at work in settings governed by the Pathfinder RPG rules that completely eliminates the momentum of every flying creature at every 6 second interval, as if they slam into just such an imaginary wall. So, there is precedent, and lacking a definite answer in the text of the jumping rules, one might extend this absurdity to the concept of jumping, in order to at least achieve some kind of bizarre consistency.

There's a difference between the peasant railgun and a jump in my book.

The metaphorical "my book," not my CRB.

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