So what square do I land in if I get a 4?You fail to jump into the adjacent square.
If you were trying to jump a trip wire, it would trigger the trap it was connected to.
So I jumped into a pit and missed... what square do I wind up in?
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I'm reminded of this thread... from a different forum. The hilarity starts to simmer around post #7. Truly one of the gems of the internet IMO.
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I just want a reply to this.you don't "land" in any squareAnd that just blows my mind as an explanation.
As someone else said up thread, Pathfinder isn't Looney Tunes. Jumping a pit shouldn't be like Wile E Coyote.
I don't like the DC 11 because it's convaluted. if you were halfway off the ledge and teleported forward 10 feet over the pit, you'd end up half way on the ledge on the other side, for anyone fighting the "Realistic" angle.
Makes thematic sense.
You're some sort of swift-action teleportation Wizard, and there's a 10ft pit in your way.
You jump 1ft forward and swift-action teleport 10ft forward.
You have traveled 11ft total (1+10), thus clearing the obstacle and landing on the other side.
I'm reminded of this thread... from a different forum. The hilarity starts to simmer around post #7. Truly one of the gems of the internet IMO.
10/10
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So I jumped into a pit and missed... what square do I wind up in?So what square do I land in if I get a 4?You fail to jump into the adjacent square.
If you were trying to jump a trip wire, it would trigger the trap it was connected to.
If the result of your Acrobatics check was less than 5, you don't leave your square.
You just suck that much at jumping.
If you're wearing Full Plate and a Tower Shield, with a Dex of 7, that result can be expected, both in Pathfinder and IRL.
What problem do you have with this answer?
I just want a reply to this.you don't "land" in any squareAnd that just blows my mind as an explanation.
As someone else said up thread, Pathfinder isn't Looney Tunes. Jumping a pit shouldn't be like Wile E Coyote.
I don't like the DC 11 because it's convaluted. if you were halfway off the ledge and teleported forward 10 feet over the pit, you'd end up half way on the ledge on the other side, for anyone fighting the "Realistic" angle.Makes thematic sense.
You're some sort of swift-action teleportation Wizard, and there's a 10ft pit in your way.
You jump 1ft forward and swift-action teleport 10ft forward.
You have traveled 11ft total (1+10), thus clearing the obstacle and landing on the other side.
no, there was no jumping, just a 10 foot teleport. for mechanical semblance my feet are either a single point or 2 feet long. The center of my feet is on the very edge when I teleport.
after the teleport my front half of my foot is on the edge.
edit: this is also out of combat so let's ignore any actions or other /roudn interactions.
This will be my last line of inquiry in this thread.
The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal)
Is "the distance to be crossed" an equivalent statement to "the distance moved"?
So I jumped into a pit and missed... what square do I wind up in?So what square do I land in if I get a 4?You fail to jump into the adjacent square.
If you were trying to jump a trip wire, it would trigger the trap it was connected to.
If the result of your Acrobatics check was less than 5, you don't leave your square.
You just suck that much at jumping.
If you're wearing Full Plate and a Tower Shield, with a Dex of 7, that result can be expected, both in Pathfinder and IRL.
What problem do you have with this answer?
i'm guessing because he jumped at the edge of the bit.
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Yeah, I think we all deserved that. Well done, Irontruth.
I'm not sure what you're arguing about at this point.That the Acrobatics check only deals with the part of the movement that you need to clear whatever you are jumping over. You can still continue moving after your jump ends.
You believe it's distance crossed (the obstacle).
I believe it's distance traveled (where you land).Both of those phrases are found in the Acrobatics description.
Interpreting them is the heart of the answer to this FAQ.
Which, honestly, more people really should be clicking on.
What part of my summation of your side was incorrect?And in this example it explicitly contradicts the rules. Why is that?That's the answer I've been giving consistently this whole time (when answering using the 5ft paradigm).You don't round up or down, you simply determine which DC you met.
A 17ft jump meets the 15 DC.
You'd land 3 squares from your starting point.
If the pit you were trying to jump was 3 squares long, you'd fall in, assuming you failed your Reflex save to grab hold of the ledge.
It contradicts how you believe the rule works, since you believe the DC = Obstacle
It does not contradict how I believe rule works, since I believe the DC = Distance
Nefreet, please stop misrepresenting our stance. It's not very pleasant, it causes more confusion, and it shows you're not trying to understand our position (regardless of if you actually are or not).
We both believe the DC = The distance to be crossed. I don't know if you've ever once summed up our position by saying this, but we've never said otherwise.
We believe that you only need to cross the actual distance of the "obstacle" needing to be crossed, since the obstacle is what you're crossing.
You believe that the distance to be crossed is not the distance of the obstacle in the way that you need to cross, but that the distance needed cross is the distance to move to the square after the obstacle that you needed to cross.Hilariously, much like you believe I'm misrepresenting your argument, I believe you are misrepresenting mine.
Are we both not listening to each other?
What part of my summation of your side was incorrect?
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And that's wrong. The rules explicitly state "These DCs double if you do not have at least 10 feet of space to get a running start", not "You need to move 2 squares" or even "You need to run 10 feet". 2 squares is very clearly 10 feet of space.Previous example.So now you need 15" to get a running star? That means a 20ft jump with a running start can only be done by someone who moves at least 40 ft can do it?
This does stat a running start.
Can you quote that previous example, and point out exactly what is wrong with it?
Honestly. I'd like to know. At least on this point the opinion is more divided than the current FAQ in question.
Why is it weird?
GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.
you need 10 feet of space not of movement.
come on people we can get to 1000
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I just want a reply to this.you don't "land" in any squareAnd that just blows my mind as an explanation.
As someone else said up thread, Pathfinder isn't Looney Tunes. Jumping a pit shouldn't be like Wile E Coyote.
I don't like the DC 11 because it's convaluted. if you were halfway off the ledge and teleported forward 10 feet over the pit, you'd end up half way on the ledge on the other side, for anyone fighting the "Realistic" angle.Makes thematic sense.
You're some sort of swift-action teleportation Wizard, and there's a 10ft pit in your way.
You jump 1ft forward and swift-action teleport 10ft forward.
You have traveled 11ft total (1+10), thus clearing the obstacle and landing on the other side.
no, there was no jumping, just a 10 foot teleport. for mechanical semblance my feet are either a single point or 2 feet long. The center of my feet is on the very edge when I teleport.
after the teleport my front half of my foot is on the edge.
edit: this is also out of combat so let's ignore any actions or other /roudn interactions.
Sure. Mess with the grid and you can get all sorts of answers. Likewise you could balance one leg over the pit, roughly 1-2ft, and teleport, ending your movement with your other leg dangling 1-2ft over the pit.
But this FAQ has to operate off of a baseline using the grid first.
After that's determined, then we can build from there.
Sure. Mess with the grid and you can get all sorts of answers. Likewise you could balance one leg over the pit, roughly 1-2ft, and teleport, ending your movement with your other leg dangling 1-2ft over the pit.But this FAQ has to operate off of a baseline using the grid first.
no it really doesn't.
and so the nuggety center of the arguments has revealed itself.
edit: for the most mundane of answers, to step over a 2 foot pit, you'd need to extend your leg in front of the other 2 feet in front of the other. thus the jump, or OMEGA STEP, requires you to put your second step 2 squares in front of the other, which places him in the square 3 away.
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you need 10 feet of space not of movement.Why is it weird?
GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.
10ft of space, to get a running start.
We know the rules for running. It requires movement. How is movement gauged in Pathfinder? By squares. Running circles in your own square counts as zero feet of movement. Moving into the adjacent square counts as 5 feet of movement. How many squares would 10 feet of movement require?
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Do you see anything wrong with the logic that it is harder for a larger creature to jump a chasm than a smaller creature?Actually, that's tricky. Really big real life critters don't jump well at all.
:)
That is not universally true. In fact, jumping height seems to be invariant to body size, due to cube-square scaling laws.
The world high jump record for humans (using the flop method) is just over 8 feet. Cats can routinely jump 6 feet. The world record for a horse high jumping is also just over 8 feet, and that is with a rider.
There are many large animals that are terrible at jumping—elephants, rhinos, hippos. But that seems to be more a result of body shape than size.
Although there is some debate as to whether a T-Rex could land from such a jump without breaking bones, there is physiological evidence that suggests they may have been capable of a jump height of 12 feet or more. Not bad for an animal that weighed 6 or 7 tons.
I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).
I commend your ideological purity.
you need 10 feet of space not of movement.Why is it weird?
GM: "It's your turn, player, what do you do?"
PC: "I move 10ft up to the bad guy and hit him"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their attack roll.GM: "You killed it. Now what?"
PC: "I want to get a running start and jump as far as I can!"
PC moves one square, then another square, and rolls their Acrobatics check.10ft of space, to get a running start.
what about that says I need to run 10 feet? it just says I need 10 feet of space, which is 2 squares, to be able to get a "running start"
for the most mundane of answers, to step over a 2 foot pit, you'd need to extend your leg in front of the other 2 feet in front of the other. thus the jump, or OMEGA STEP, requires you to put your second step 2 squares in front of the other, which places him in the square 3 away.
quoting so that it may get attention
So I jumped into a pit and missed... what square do I wind up in?So what square do I land in if I get a 4?You fail to jump into the adjacent square.
If you were trying to jump a trip wire, it would trigger the trap it was connected to.
If the result of your Acrobatics check was less than 5, you don't leave your square.
You just suck that much at jumping.
If you're wearing Full Plate and a Tower Shield, with a Dex of 7, that result can be expected, both in Pathfinder and IRL.
What problem do you have with this answer?
Several:
You can stop someone from leaving their square
He falls prone in his own square on a dc of 4 or less.
It means the DC 5 check shouldn't be listed at all.
It creates THREE options instead of two: go nowhere, fail, and success.
Getting a 4 is better than getting a 5 (prone AND take damage)
what about that says I need to run 10 feet? it just says I need 10 feet of space, which is 2 squares, to be able to get a "running start"Moving one square is only a 5ft step. You can't count the square you are starting in, unfortunately.
here's the thing, you just need space, you don't actually need to move by RAW to get the "running start" DC adjustment.
I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).I commend your ideological purity.
I'm with him. I don' think one person objecting frequently makes it a frequently asked question.
I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).Which, honestly, more people really should be clicking on.I can only click so many times! :(
I haven't FAQed yet either.
bigger fish to fry and all that.
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I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).Which, honestly, more people really should be clicking on.I can only click so many times! :(
It really isn't just one person vs everyone else. Nefreet is the only one defending that position, but he is not the only one who believes that position.
I used to interpret the rules for jumping exactly the same way as Nefreet does until a while back when I read Sean's post about how he and Jonathon Tweet came up with the DCs back in 3e. That changed my mind.
I have seen other GMs rule it that way as well. Just because they aren't posting on this thread doesn't mean that they aren't out there.
Then, even if we put aside that interpretation, we have two other camps (DC 10, and DC 11) that still disagree.
I am pretty confident that I know what the answer will be, but I would still like to see this FAQ answered (and I'm equally confident that everyone else, including those who interpret the rule differently than I do, feel the same way). I would prefer to play the game than debate the DC for jumping a 10-foot wide pit. If this FAQ gets answered, then we won't have to debate it in game anymore. :)
Well to the running start part I guess it matters over how a running start is initated. I'm in the move 2 squares school of thought much like a charge.
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I'd rather prevent poor red dragons from having to hop in their lava pools to avoid heat stroke from a warm summers day.
I run, 20ft, and during that movement, I choose to jump, 5ft.
No pit, or obstacle, but simply for the hell of it.
Do I move, in total, 20ft, or 25ft?
depends when you jumped and if you still decided to move after you got 20 feet from where you started.
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I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).Which, honestly, more people really should be clicking on.I can only click so many times! :(I haven't FAQed yet either.
bigger fish to fry and all that.
This. It's not so much about ideological purity as it is the way the FAQs are being processed right now. Most clicks = next answered, and there are FAQ topics significantly more important than something that 95% of people seem to agree on.
Nefreet the problem with your interpretation is that it seems arbitrary based on where a pit falls in relation to squares. If a pit is placed in such a way that it fits a in a 2x2 square arangement exactly it would take a DC 15 check to jump but if it straddles 6 squares by resting in the middle of the outer sides them even though more squares have a pit the jump DC is now 10 since I have moved 2 squares and thus am in a safe square.
Nefreet the problem with your interpretation is that it seems arbitrary based on where a pit falls in relation to squares. If a pit is placed in such a way that it fits a in a 2x2 square arangement exactly it would take a DC 15 check to jump but if it straddles 6 squares by resting in the middle of the outer sides them even though more squares have a pit the jump DC is now 10 since I have moved 2 squares and thus am in a safe square.
let's not forget the 5ft diameter hole that requires a DC 15 to jump diagonally and DC 10 to jump straight.
Do you see anything wrong with the logic that it is harder for a larger creature to jump a chasm than a smaller creature?Actually, that's tricky. Really big real life critters don't jump well at all.
Someone has obviously never seen a tiger. Or a horse.
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I'm with him. I don' think one person objecting frequently makes it a frequently asked question.I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).I commend your ideological purity.
Umm... I feel invisible now.
I keep saying, I am with Nefreet on this one. I just feel he is doing a good enough job and I don't have the time.
There are plenty of other threads on this, with plenty of other people arguing it.
Someone has obviously never seen a tiger. Or a horse.Do you see anything wrong with the logic that it is harder for a larger creature to jump a chasm than a smaller creature?Actually, that's tricky. Really big real life critters don't jump well at all.
or a T-rex '3'
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Which, honestly, more people really should be clicking on.I can only click so many times! :(
You must not have put enough points into your Use Paizo Forum skill. Maybe if you roll instead of take ten you can beat the DC by 5 and get another click?
:)
(for those humor impaired, this is a joke. Please do not take it as an endorsement of ballot stuffing FAQs)
I refuse to click on the FAQ button for a "dispute" that consists of (one person) vs (everyone else).Which, honestly, more people really should be clicking on.I can only click so many times! :(
It is only one vs many on these boards. I have seen quite a few GMs who feel the need to add 5 to the explicitly stated DC.