There is not a real solution to not getting people together. Maybe arranging a regular time for those who can make it and those who have floating schedules can make it or not.
On time to do things, encourage the players to decide on actions between sessions by email.
Inexperience will make any kind of decision making slower. You could encourage them to be more decisive.
All I can think of.
Not much you can do except keep pushing forward. Have an alternate campaign to play when everyone can't make it for a session or agree to carry on with your main campaign without the missing players.
If you have any sort of NPC running with the players, you can use them as a mouthpiece to encourage the players to hurry or move along. If not, then just have some dungeon denizens come along to get them moving and I'm not talking about some nice CR 2 spider, but something APL+3 that scares them to death and makes them run.
We all have to deal with cancellations and rescheduling but keep it to a minimum unless you have no choice.
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Are the players complaining? If not, you might consider letting everyone enjoy getting to know the game and building memories of "those eary days". They only come once. Nothing wrong with everyone going slow when there in not several experienced players. There is a tendency towards caution and inertia, since players are afraid of either making a stupid mistake or possibly getting one of their first characters killed.
Once a week for 7 hrs, I hate to tell you, is about as often as anyone beyond college can play for. Our group is a mix of 25-45 year olds and we have a heck of a time getting together every two weeks, even with the players are extremely devoted to the game.
If you all have more free time to play, I suggest several of the players, or even one plus a GM getting together to do some short adventures, maybe with different characters in order to gain some experience. If the slowness really bothers you as GM, typically it only takes one confident player to get things rolling. Pathfinder society, despite often being very different from a casual table, can be a great source of learning the game early on.
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It seems there are multiple things here that need to be touched up on. I may not consider myself the best DM but I've been writing modules up since my dad introduced me to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons when I was 10 and running them since I was in high school... so maybe I can help?
First off, if you're bringing in new people...always play for a shorter amount of time or if you want to bait them lie to them. I know this sounds like it sucks, but I have come to notice over the years that when I focus peoples attention on the amount of time we'll be playing for they tend to freak out and not enjoy the game. Instead, say you'll probably play for about two or three, this will make them feel more comfortable, like they are testing the waters. They'll hopefully feel more focused on having fun and when the hours all of a sudden go by, and you've made things interesting, they'll hopefully beg to stay and play a bit longer...if they don't ask for more time offer it, if they seem hesitant to take it because they have "things to do" it is sadly time to look for more players.
When it comes to timing and moving things along, you need to be the one to push them along. If they are chatting outside of game, get them refocused. My favorite thing to do is tell my players that for every time they get off task I will minus EXP. The first couple of times you do it, but then you just say it, and then hopefully they stop talking ridiculous amounts outside of character like they eventually did with my group.
If they are sitting in a room and won't move and an HOUR literally goes by...it's really time to throw a strong encounter in to get them moving or have something happen. One time I had a party who thought they beat a thief up a mountain, but they didn't and they were just camping out in a cave system. To freak them out further up the mountain, I "Rolled" a random encounter and had them hear the cry of a Wendigo. That brings me to another point, if things are getting a bit stale feel free to deviate from your module, no one likes a stale story and if not enough is happening then the players will get bored.
When it comes to combat I strongly suggest having your new players make combat notes. They take the time to write out all dice they roll, so like "To swing longsword: Roll a 1d20+5 on hit roll 1d8+3," etcetera etcetera. There is a space for this on their character sheet, but some people do get taken back by all the information on the sheet. For smaller battles if things are going a bit slow but it is because they are planning too much, slightly insist or hint that the battle doesn't need this much planning. If they are planing for a hard battle and things are taking a bit of time between turns, that sadly is what happens. No one wants to die to a dragons breathe, so players will always question their teammates before diving into a tough fight.
When it comes to getting people together, sadly there's no changing that. With my group it took me a good month to settle in a good day for us all to play and get around work schedules and school. If the people can't make it, I strongly suggest you reach out and find more people willing to play.
First, a 7 hour session is a huge chunk of time. I would have a really hard time devoting that much of my time in one block every week to a game no matter how great.
I would recommend a 4 hour session and if necessary meet every other week.
Maybe have people arrive an hour earlier if they want for snacks/lunch/questions/gab/setup before the game actually starts.
Second, time to do something (especially in combat) is a common big issue. There are several things I can suggest to help.
A) Personally, I limit each player to 10 seconds to figure out what he is going to do. Then another 30 seconds to explain it to me. (Yes, it might take longer than that to add up the gajillion dice and modifiers on occasion.) If the player can't decide... "Buzthwat is confused by the furious action around him and goes into delay while trying to decide on a confusion or lightning bolt."
If the action is so complex that he can't describe it in 30 seconds, I don't figure it is something that can be done in 6 seconds.
Note: I am not some Timer Tyrant sitting with a stopwatch trying to 'get' the PC's. If they have a legit question about how something works, which enemy is firing their direction, or can they see over the hedge - that's fine. And I cut quite a bit of leeway for new players. But they don't get forever.
B) Note cards or write-ups. You have to have a card or print out handy for spells you are going to use. That way we don't have to sit for 20 minutes while you flip back and forth through 3 books. Same rule for any special attacks or maneuvers you are planning to use a lot. If you build a charging bull rush barbarian, I don't want to wait while you look it up every time it is your turn. If you summon creatures, you better dang well have a write-up for all of them you are likely to summon.
Again, not a Tyrant about it. You didn't expect to be in an underwater cave, so I can understand not having the stats of the octopus on hand. You didn't know you would find a scroll of Eruptive Pustules so didn't have the description ready.
C) Limit the out of character discussion, especially on tactics. When the player says "Ok everyone shoot at the caster in the back." You say, "When the shaman hears that he ducks down behind the wall and you can hear him chanting some spell." Then the player will typically say something like "I didn't say it out loud." You respond with, "Then how do the other 4 PC's know you want them to shoot the caster?"
Note: One group I played with actually developed standard 'plays' for common tactics. If the wizard called a F3B, everyone knows to stay away from the guys in back because the wizard was planning to rain area effect spells on them for 3 rounds. But that was fine because it was it didn't use up huge amounts of game time. The bad guys couldn't tell what was going to happen. It was worked out in character as a small set of plans.
D) Taking forever to decide what to do.
D1) I sometimes recommend each group elect a DECISION PLAYER (DP) and it might change each week. If the players are unsure what to for any significant length of time, ask the DP what the group is doing.
Note: If the PC's are actually discussing in character and actively role playing, that is a good thing. Let that go on.
But if it is the players that can't decide what to do, they might need a nudge.
D2) Also, sometimes there are consequences to inaction.
Everyone roll a perception check... Ok Grenthal hears some voices coming down the hall. Do you speak draconic? Yes, ok you hear, "... don't care what you think. He said he smells smoke and to go check what is burning. Are you going to tell him no? I'm sure not going to give him an excuse to eat me like all the others. ..."
E) An AP might be too big a project for a new group. I would have started with a single module to see if the group really meshes together well, wants to keep going, and can make it consistently.
F) Most group anymore have problems getting everyone together every time. If Jim isn't there tonight we just say "Montross has dysentery from a bad goat stew and is staying at camp today." The other 3 guys have to figure out how to progress without Montross' capabilities.
Well that was a few general suggestions and longer than I expected when I started typing. If you have any other specific questions, let us know.
Scheduling problems are something most GMs have to deal with at one point or another, if nothing helps consider reducing the size of the group or recruit new players to replace those who can't make it to the game regularly, even if they are friends. This is something you need to tackle head-on and be proactive about, it won't solve itself. It has been said already, but a weekly session is probably as good as it gets for most GMs anyway so I'd resist the temptation to go for a tighter schedule.
Regarding the issues of motivation and activity throughout a session, it sounds a little like your players don't know what to do because they lack context, that is knowledge about the setting and everything that goes into a character's personality and motivations. This is just speculation on my part, but I had the very same problem once in my game and the reason was that the troubled players were unfamiliar with any setting details and operated in the dark, which in return made them hesitant.
So my advise would be to ensure everyone is familiar with Golarion's basics (assuming you run Emerald Spire as written), maybe compile 1-2 pages (not more!) of infos from a wiki or the Inner Sea World Guide so that they know the important countries, gods, conflicts and everyday life stuff.
Other than that it might also just be the case that your players don't like Emerald Spire for some reason, or dungeoncrawls in general. Make a poll and ask them if they'd be interested in a different kind of adventure like urban intrigue, wilderness exploration, or eldritch horrors. I know it's hard to accept as a GM but sometimes players just don't love the stuff you run as much as you do.
As to encounters taking too long, don't hesitate to put the players on the clock - gentle, but firmly. Hand out "cheat sheets" with actions a character can do each round and explain again if necessary that a character can always aid another character or do something other than attacking directly, if that's a problem. Do this a couple of times and then encourage players to make decisions within 1 minute, or they forgo their actions for that round. If you think this is too harsh, don't (but make sure the players have the "tools" they need to make informed decisions). As the GM you are a player too and it's perfectly reasonable to expect the others to be considerate of your efforts, which tip-toeing around all evening simply isn't.
The last thing I can think of is that maybe some players aren't enirely comfortable with their characters. It happens, sometimes you see something and get excited (especially as a newbie) and then it plays out in an entirely different way. Ask around and offer free rebuilds of one of your players is overwhelmed with the abilities and mechanics of a class, or generally would just like to make changes.
Perhaps you're concentrating to much on the little things, play a little more loose with the rules and try to move the story along:-)
Ah, not to dig on Pathfinder...but from the sounds of it maybe it's time you ask them if they actually enjoy the game? If this game isn't peaking their interest maybe you can find something that your friend group really enjoys and find a different tabletop game?
If you really think they are interested in Pathfinder, then maybe just take a hour out of the next session and run through their characters again with them until everything is cleared up.
Just remember, you can't force anyone to enjoy the game. For some people it just doesn't click on for them. I for one can sadly say that I have seen many people come and go because they lost the joy for Pathfinder or never had it to begin with. I hope this is the last case for your group, but if it is I'm sure you guys will find something else cool to do.
Edit: I totally and fully agree with Captain Yesterday. If they seem like they just want to have fun, loosen things up a bit!
... I'm worried that we might end up with the entire group of characters standing in a daze while getting pummeled by enemies. ...
I find that unlikely. Usually after just once or twice, people will start doing something rather than their character doing nothing.
... or what their character can do, or sometimes they just have the wrong number written on their character sheet and it takes 20 minutes to fix it. ...
I have known players that have to have someone else do their character sheets for them. I personally use HeroLabs, so it is pretty easy for me to do the character sheets for multiple people. It has most abilities, spells, and bonuses printed right there on the sheet.
... Honestly, I think the big problem might be that my players couldn't care less if they were playing Pathfinder or a video game. They don't really want to play Pathfinder, they just want to hang out, and Pathfinder is an easy way for them to accomplish that. ...
Might try PFS scenarios. They are shorter and not as involved or complex. Can immediately see the 'goal' for today's gaming session.
Also I've known a couple of groups that rotate what they are doing from week-to-week. PF, video games, cards, board games, pool, etc...
Sometimes people don't like to play exactly the same type of game. there are groups that don't get all that serious about it, never role play, don't care about the backstory and are fine with that. That may just be the casual type of game they are looking for.
I actually did print out an unofficial "Emerald Spire Player's Guide".
I suggested they read it several times. None of them have read it even once. Also, less than half of the group puts any effort into roleplaying whatsoever, and as far as I know only one player has a backstory of any kind.
I've asked them for their thoughts on the campaign several times, and the result I got essentially amounted to "Everything is fine." It feels like they don't want to give their real opinion on anything because they're afraid of their wants as a player conflicting with those of another player. I've even asked them if they would prefer more combat, more roleplaying, more puzzles, or whatever, and they responded that the way I was doing things was perfect - something I doubt highly.
Ok, so that are some indicators right there. You basically know that something's not right, they just won't tell you. Also, and I know this might sound confrontational, why did you allow stuff like only one real backstory in the entire group allow to go on? As a GM, that would immediately alert me to the fact that something's not ok. There is a difference between "the players will never be as excited about stuff like the GM is" and "the players don't give a sh** whatsoever".
If there's awkwardness within the group or some other reason that people might not be upfront about their opinions, interview them privately. If nothing helps, be at least upfront yourself and announce your irritation to the group and ask for honesty. If you're not having fun, the game will never result in something really good.
And Azure Falcon might be right, it's entirely possible that Pathfinder just doesn't click with your players, at least not the same way it does with you. That's nobody's fault and the only solution is to switch systems and maybe try PF again in a few months or so. But make sure that this is really the case (which is tricky if people aren't telling you stuff, I know) before you throw in the towel.
Lol! We've been playing together 4 years and I still get asked those questions :-)
Patience, they'll get it, try to loosen up, try to improvise a bit, spend those twenty minutes trying to mediate a dispute over a bottle of Rum between a Korred and a Leprechaun... be decisive, don't allow paralysis to set in, get a couple low level short adventures you might throw in if they go in unexpected directions :-)
Are they having fun?
Are you having fun?
Is anyone else interested in GMing?
Pathfinder is rules heavy, and they keep adding new mechanics, feats, traits, etc., that interact with the standard (Core) rules, sometimes in very unlcear ways. I've been GMing PF for about 2 years, and I still need to look things up.
5 players is about ideal. Most groups encounter these issues re: conflicting real-life schedules and gaming time. It sucks, but it's a reality. I've gone from a grand campaign to an AP to modules simply because I can't rely on the same people being there every session. What they're enjoying is just the chance to play. I would like something deeper, more story-character driven, but when 1/3-1/2 of my players fall out, it's too hard to keep going.
So, adapt, adjust, and change. Change systems. Change settings. Change GMs. Don't try to do it all yourself. Use time limits. (I use 1 minute, which is still a lot, but does impress the need for focus.) Have someone responsible for tracking initiative. Someone else is the "rules lawyer" with whatever books we have. It gives them responsibilities that helps keep them involved and takes pressure off me.
And look into other groups. Not necessarily as a player, but to see how they operate. What do they do to keep the game moving forward? Inspiration. Things like that.
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Some of this advice is horrible.
First off, do NOT lie to your players about what the gaming schedule is and then kick them out if they take you at your word and schedule their lives accordingly.
Second, don't try to make the game quicker paced by punishing Players with loss of exp or loss of actions. You want your group to have fun. Autocratic GMs seldom achieve that goal, and usually end up alone on the the internet. If your group as a whole isn't happy with the pacing, you can discuss together some ways to speed it up, but imposing something to 'make it more fun' when they are happy with the way it works now is just stupid.
Basically your problem, as you already alluded to, is that everyone else in the group views this as primarily a social event with the game being incidental, and you really want a hard charging focused game. That isn't going to happen, or at least won't be forced to happen. You either need to accept that they other players are primarily interested in a social gathering and the game will be second priority to them or you need to stop running the game if you can't handle that,
Second, don't try to make the game quicker paced by punishing Players with loss of exp or loss of actions. You want your group to have fun. Autocratic GMs seldom achieve that goal, and usually end up alone on the the internet. If your group as a whole isn't happy with the pacing, you can discuss together some ways to speed it up, but imposing something to 'make it more fun' when they are happy with the way it works now is just stupid.
Well, I explicitly said "gentle, but firmly" so there's no reason to condense this into an extreme position, it was never meant to be one. And the concept of fun wasn't even part of any that, trying to insert it as a shutdown argument appears disingenous.
I stand by my advise that stepping up the pace at some point is actually beneficial to the game. It puts the focus in the immediate action of an encounter and keeps people involved, because waiting 20 min for your own turn is boring and if people know that they can get away with tip-toeing around at any point during combat it removes a lot of dramatic potential this part of the game as to offer. And, but this is just my opinion, it has to do with respect towards the GM - it's ok if some players need a lot of time learning rules and stuff on their character sheets, but they should get it eventually. 6 months to learn the difference between ability score and ability modifier is not acceptable on any level, really. Putting some small screws on them at some point has nothing to do with GM tyranny or being un-fun, but with trying to keep a game afloat and dynamic.
But yeah, like it's being said, if most people in the group see the game as a social gathering first Pathfinder might just be the wrong game altogether.
Though I think it has been said, try laying down 'the law'. Be firm with your friends. Tell them you want to play 'D&D/Pathfinder' (on the specific day) only. Tell them you all can hang out and play video games some other day (parents approval of coarse).
If sparks fly then you have your answer about what these friends of yours really want to do.
You can keep your friends, but have to get your gaming fix some other way.
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pennywit's comment is 100% on the money.
When you do get a new group together, don't run it for more than 3 or 4 people. Split it into two groups if they are all keen (which they aren't). Let them have a go at GMing.
Time management is a skill all GMs should learn to pick up. That's unlikely to work with the issues you're having simply because it sounds like your players don't really want to play. Maybe I'm wrong, you tell me.
It's easy for a 7 player table to fall out of the loop because the way table division works while playing is almost always like this:
- 1 or 2 "leaders", who are doing most of the work
- 2-3 "followers", who support the leaders a little bit
- 2-3 "stragglers", who will do whatever the others want them to do
In a 3 or 4 person table, the players are forced to take initiative or the game doesn't move. There's less distractions, and it's much easier to keep things moving by saying "okay, what do you do next?"
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If half or more of my seven players are available for any given session, we game. I have the "working copy" of each character sheet (meaning, at the end of each session, I collect character sheet and keep them until next time). If a player is absent, I hand their character sheet to another player and they play two characters that session.
We game on Friday nights. We try to game every other Friday, but we often have to bump week-to-week when scheduling is a problem.
Life happens. We're all in our 30's and 40's, most married with kids and careers and deadlines and soccer games on Saturday morning. We game when we can, but we try to remember that not everyone can be on all the time.
-Skeld
The problem is that the most players we have at any time is five, and there are maybe two that can come reliably.
This isn't really a problem though. Most of the adventures and pathfinder system is based for 4 players and the GM. We've gone up to 6 before, but it does slow things down and require the GM to improvise the challenges a bit. Some systems are ok with bigger groups. 2nd edition we once had a 8-9 person group... but pathfinder isn't that game.
If you're getting 5 there, be happy with the 5 and run with it.
For that matter if you get 2-4 that's good too. 2-3 reliable players who want to play, are better then 6-8 people who don't care one way or another.
As for scheduling? That's always tough and it'll only get tougher. It may not work for everyone, but we find consistency to be a strength here. For us, Game night is Tuesday night. We start about 8pm. We have a secondary game that is every other Saturday 7pm.
Everyone knows the schedule ahead of time... if someone wants to do something on a Tuesday 6 months from now... I don't have to check a calendar or day planner, I know I have plans that day. There will always be things that are more important than gaming, but if you make it a standard priority people tend to not 'forget' about it or just blow it off. Come 8pm... we play with who we have.
Dave Justus and pennywit have it figured out.
Bump to their posts.
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BioB: I'm in the same boat. My gamers and I are older and more experienced, but we're having the same issues. We get together for 5-7, sometimes 8 hour sessions and make it through only a few encounters.
My players really enjoy social time. I have nothing against that but I've said I'd rather do one night where we just hang out as friends and socialize and keep the game day separate. I don't know about your game but for me there's a lot of symptoms stemming from the same cause:
My gamers just want to hang out and chat.
Now there's nothing wrong with that. Some of my best games are among friends that socialize. But when I take the time to put a game together I'd like to chew up some plot, roll some dice and move it along. In short on game days I'd like the game to be the primary focus and source of fun.
I don't always get what I want though.
I've found a lot more enjoyment in a second group of gamers. We meet more frequently (once a week versus 2/month) but we only play for 3 hours. There's still chit chat, jokes and socialization, but since it's only 3hrs of play we all feel focused and the game moves along.
In a 3 hr session with more players of the same experience level as my other game we get as much if not more done.
So I guess my advice, to you and myself is: have a conversation with your players, tell them your concerns and if any of them are on board, play shorter sessions.
I haven't played with inexperienced players in a long time. Among vets of the game however I can tell you that focused players, in a 3 hr session with me running, have gotten through 7 encounters at level 1. It wiped out their resources, but they plowed through.
The PCs scouted the session before, which helped. They felt confident they knew what to expect. They got through a hazard, got to "room" 1; a beach area with kobolds in a bunker. From there they dealt with 3 kobold warrior 1, moved up through a gauntlet of 4 more kobolds using magic to conceal themselves, fought a tatzlwyrm at the top, followed that fight with more kobolds, then went back down, through the bunker and into the kobold lair where they dealt with a trap and finally a couple elite kobold warrior 2 backed by a kobold adept 3.
All of that in 3 hours.
It CAN be done. The players need to be focused on what they're doing and they need to be motivated to get things done. Finally they need to know what they're capable of and get a little luck in their rolls, but it CAN be done.
Find a new group if they don't care about playing. Join an online game on a VTT like d20pro or Roll20 and let these people play WoW instead.