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I like it. But - you're not under any geas, as far as I know. The restrictions on attacking / acting against other characters is an off-game restriction, and has no diegetic meaning within the game world. This does pose a problem in some situations, but can be explained away / hand waived in most circumstances, I think.
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My paladin's take on part 4 is kinda similar as yours. He won't use poison himself, but he has no problems with someone else using them, as poisoning foes is not actually an evil act. He has no qualms about ambushing foes, however, since he serves Torag, who, among other things, is God of Strategy.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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1. Evil Outsiders as pets. A paladin is, technically, under oath to destroy these whenever possible. Whenever possible being the operating word. Since we're geased to prevent attacking other Pathfinders and their pets, it's not possible.My approach: Fall back on the Pathfinder mantra: Explore, Report, Cooperate and just ignore it. The Society allows them to have an imp - you are not a legitimate authority here. Besides, being overtly critical can severely jeopardize the ability to cooperate with this individual and may lead to chaos, which my character is every bit as against as evil. There's always a greater evil to pursue - pick your battles. Being uncompromising is the fastest way to insure chaos.
There's no actual geas involved; the "no PVP" and "don't be a jerk" rules are OOC constructions.
Paladins aren't sworn to destroy fiends all the time; that's what the Oath Against Fiends archetype is for. Opposing evil and spreading good doesn't have to be done through battle all the time.
It's fine to have some verbal sparring at the table, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Pay attention to other people's comfort zones, and ask them to respect yours.
When I play my paladin of Sarenrae (Oath of Vengeance: "do not be distracted by lesser evils"), I just ask that any evil pets promise to think about seeking redemption. That's good enough "for now". Meanwhile, let's get on with the adventure. There's greater evils to be opposed together.
2. Surrendering Prisoners. A paladin is under oath to be honorable. Many interpret this as providing quarter to surrendering enemies or being agents of the law, required to take them prisoner and to a legitimate authority.
My approach: When in a city or any place with a legitimate legal structure, quarter is given by the paladin in accordance to his oath to respect the laws of society. He'll asks others do the same - it's not like spending 5 minutes turning over prisoners to guards will pose any undue burden. Sometimes, however, a paladin finds himself outside a structured society where the only law is natural law. In wilds, dungeons or lands ruled by evil (such as evil societies and monsters), he is within his right to be judge, jury and executioner and is by no means required to jeopardize the greater good or recklessly endangering his companions by taking dangerous foes prisoner.
Agreed, and note that various paladin codes (Iomedae) have something specific to say about this. With my paladin of Sarenrae it's usually "do you repent? no?" *slash, kill* "and goon #2, do you repent?".
It's generally acceptable to drop off prisoners at some jail without much further ado; we have only a 4H time slot after all.
3. Party members are endangering civilians. A paladin is under oath to protect the innocent. Being violent to others who may not have posed a threat to the party or, for example, an alchemist or wizard lobbing his bombs/fireballs at an enemy in a crowded room are severe ethical problems for the paladin.
My approach. Judgment call. If there's a clear and present evil, continue fighting it. You can't stop the alchemist from blowing up civilians (as you are geased to prevent direct action against another Pathfinder), but you can stop the evil he's trying to attack who's probably just as dangerous to the common good. After it's done, you tend the wounded as much as possible. You can try to preach the error of the guy's way, but more likely, my character would just write a lengthy report to his supervisors calling for the removal of the character from the Society. Also, if any legitimate authority comes to arrest the offending characters, the paladin does not interfere.
Call them on it. Argue for a different tactic. As a paladin you're supposed to be the voice of responsibility.
This is a matter of balancing the "don't be a jerk" rule. You shouldn't get overzealous and dictate everything they can do, but they shouldn't make it impossible for you to play a paladin either.
4. Others using ambushes, killing foes while they sleep, poisons... etc. Paladins don't use poisons and are encouraged to fight honorably and encourage those notions in others.
My approach. Not only is foiling an ambush or waking a target the party witch put to sleep so you can all 'fight honorably' a violation of the Pathfinder tenant to cooperate, I would argue it's actually a selfish act. What if a party member died because you had to go do something tactically unsound because your honor demanded it? Putting your own moral code above the wellbeing of your allies and, by your actions, forcing them to adhere to it is a Lawful Evil act. You are forwarding your own agenda without a care to how it may impact others. As for poisons, since it's explicit in his personal code, the paladin forgoes using them of course... but since it is allowed by the Society, it's not his place to criticize others for using it.
Don't do these things yourself (although Torag's paladin code sometimes requires it; that which is not forbidden is mandatory). Don't encourage others to do them, chide them a bit, but don't actually try to stop them.
Some adventures will be made more challenging because the presence of a paladin restricts the freedom to pull morally grey tricks. However, since everyone knows you can depend on paladins, you can also turn that into an asset, to improve your party's credibility.
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That's a serious advantage of LG/paladins. People are much more inclined to trust you. Although sometimes the alignment feels restrictive, it's also a source of strength.
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Paladins aren't 2 dimensional paper cut-outs that all think and act the same, and I've yet to run into a PFS GM who expects them to be. A paladin's behavior is colored by the deity they worship, so my paladin of Iomedae is out smiting demons while the paladin of Shelyn is standing beside me trying to take them prisoner and get them to repent (we're playing Wrath of the Righteous).
All of these examples will easily be overrun by circumstances. For example, ambushes aren't inherently "wrong" or "dishonorable": police set up ambushes and even stings to capture dangerous criminals without getting anyone else hurt: are they dishonorable for doing so? And what if he has hostages? Are you seriously going to knock on the door and demand he fight you honorably instead of sneaking up on him and taking him down before he starts killing the people you're trying to save?
Really it comes down to this: do the rules say it is an evil act?
Figure out your paladin's code based on the deity you worship, and discuss it with the GM before the game starts.
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So far lots of good ideas, thoughts and advice.
The main issue you are going to run into is different ideas about what acts are and are not evil. Some folks (not myself) feel that killing a helpless enemy is evil.
I'm more in line with your thinking though. If you are away from a legit authority, your deity gives you judge, jury, and executioner status.
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My good magus has coup-de-grace'd an enemy in a hold person because they were paralyzed and getting slowly eaten at by acid. Helplessly watching yourself be consumed by acid is terrible way to go, so he figured it was better to just end it. My magus also fancies himself a samurai, so he saw ending the man's pain as an act of respect.
The alignment repurcussions of executing someone, like simply killing them, depends on why and how you are doing it. Both paladins of Damerrich and Gray Gardeners execute people.
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The main issue you are going to run into is different ideas about what acts are and are not evil. Some folks (not myself) feel that killing a helpless enemy is evil.
Not necessarily an act of an evil character but I have to say in most cases it seems like an evil act to me. For a chaotic good vigilante I don't see much trouble with executing helpless enemies as long as there's some logic behind it. For a paladin however I would question the player about the intentions behind the act because it does seem rather out of line for a paladin.
I'd also like to add that things aren't so black and white regarding paladins and evil outsiders and undead. Playing a paladin of Shelyn using the most extreme interpretation of her paladin vows the players I was with were fairly stunned when she decided not to raise arms against a group of ghouls that ambushed the party and instead started taking defensive actions to try to protect the other PCs. Using violence only when necessary to save a life isn't outside of the scope of paladin regardless of the enemy in my opinion. Of course this will vary with the god and a character's personal interpretation of their vows but I'm with other people who are saying that you shouldn't feel obligated to play your character in a specific manner just because he happens to be a paladin.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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As others have pointed out, there is no geas involved. It is simply the way that the Society works. Having joined them, you have accepted that you will need to Explore, Cooperate, and Report.
I would think it reasonable to request that the evil pet outsider be left behind if you are aware of it at the start of the scenario. Make it a request, not a demand and continue forward if they refuse.
One thing I think you should look into is the Paladin codes established for the different gods. As others have said, this greatly changes how a Paladin deals with some of the situations you've outlined. Inner Sea Gods does a lot to fill in details about the various religions. The way Torag and Shelyn deal with surrender is very different.
Don't assume your Paladin must join the Silver Crusade. I have a Paladin of Erastil in the Grand Lodge that would argue that the Silver Crusade is working at cross purposes to the Parhfinder Society.
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my only "paladin" is a paladin of razmir (yeah, I know), an oracle who is so dumb (6 INT, 8 WIS) and zealous that he has willed himself to have paladin-like powers. he runs around in full plate, healing the wounded, and "smiting" enemies of the faith with a combination of power attack and weapon of awe.
I've actually won a couple of converts to razmir, and created some interesting role play along the way. it's been fun to play lawful-stupid without actually being good, just zealous. it's especially amusing when he ends up the face of the party. there was one season six scenario I played that he was the only PC that could speak the language of the bad guys, so I got to "diplome" them. which essentially was little more than insulting their mothers and charging into battle (they didn't like razmir, and *were* the bag guys).
it's basically my personal mission to teach other players the value of social skills. if I'm the default face of the party, we're going to have an interesting adventure.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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Overall, I would say your ideas for running a Paladin are fairly reasonable. You should not have a problem at most tables but there are a few GMs out there who are sticklers for their interpretation of the Paladin's code. The closest I have experienced to this in PFS was from a GM whose bark turned out to be far worse than his bite (he claimed to be a stickler, but in the end wasn't). But as with anything related to Paladins, expect table variation.
Also, don't forget to chastise the magic armor using fighter, magic hammer wielding barbarian, troll brawler and party archer and rogue for using inappropriate language.
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There's a lawful good god of executions
You just have to be judicious and responsible about how you go about it. A paladin shouldnt be executing people without questioning them and determining with certainty that such a course of action is necessary and warranted. If someone is running around lopping off prisoner heads without a thought, THAT'S being chaotic. If he only does it to evil prisoners that have been doing evil things, he could be chaotic good.
Killing a paralyzed enemy in the middle of combat can be more problematic depending on the circumstances, the enemy in-question, and the specifics of the paladin and their deity. All but paladins of the most peaceful deities (Ghenshau, Shelyn, etc...) would be perfectly fine coup-de-grace'ing an evil outsider. If you can CDG an undead (guaranteed crit but they ignore the fort save?), I would likewise see no alignment issue.
Naturally, some paladins--such as followers of Shelyn--would never execute a prisoner. Paladins come in a wide variety.
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Overall, I would say your ideas for running a Paladin are fairly reasonable. You should not have a problem at most tables but there are a few GMs out there who are sticklers for their interpretation of the Paladin's code. The closest I have experienced to this in PFS was from a GM whose bark turned out to be far worse than his bite (he claimed to be a stickler, but in the end wasn't). But as with anything related to Paladins, expect table variation.
the only time I've ever come close to revoking paladin powers was a brand new player using the paladin pre-gen. he just flat out murdered a mook that had surrendered. the entire table explained to him that such actions violated the paladin code and I gave him a stern warning, and recommended he play a barbarian or fighter instead next time.
revoking his powers or demanding an atonement wouldn't have done any good on a pre-gen, so I just used it as a learning experience.
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Everytime this thread comes up, I want to run an all-Paladin party where everyone worships a different deity- -just to show people that paladins can be as different as wizards or fighters.
Dibs on being the fireball-blasting Sacred Servant paladin riding on the back of his Fiendish Hound Archon in Dire Wolf form.
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To the OP:
To clarify my earlier post (I was in a hurry), I don't see anything wrong with your interpretation of the paladin code. I think that you'll be fine if that's they way you choose to play your paladin. I was only trying to point out that you do have choices when playing a paladin, so don't feel that you have to be so restricted if you don't want to be.
The only time I've issued a warning to a paladin was when the player wanted to take an NPC ally's gear, tie him naked to his horse, and slap the horse to make it run home to the garrison...which was about almost a day away...in the Worldwound... (He couldn't understand why I considered that to be "killing a helpless ally", much less the whole "you realize that's stealing, right?" argument.)
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I find it very amusing when people scream "Are you a Paladin!" as if it were a crime in itself.
Most of your general principles are fine, but offing people's pets and summoned creatures is a little over the top.
It's fun being good. But griefing can go both ways. I've seen a paladin grief specialist and a Chelaxian grief specialist...not at the same table but both were troubling. I asked both, "why are you a parhfinder? What are the tenents of membership? Can you be a pathfinder and do what you are doing?
Change the world one day at a time.
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As a reasonably new PFS GM and player but with decades of RPG experience something about this subject has been bugging me. Specifically it isn't anything to do with paladins but with the perception that they are the only ones with alignment restrictions.
Every PFS character is under an absolute alignment restriction. They cannot be evil. That means something. I've seen parties discuss handing prisoners over to ghouls. I've seen a player argue that killing every downed enemy was required by their deity.
While neutral aligned characters are certainly allowed to walk the line between good and evil it should never be the paladins players who are having to greatly adjust their behavior to get along in PFS play.
Jessex, I agree that paladins are over-scrutinized in general while other alignment restrictions are largely ignored.
A large part of it, I think, is that paladins have a specific code in addition to their alignment restrictions. But it also seem like a large number of RPG players just have a strong dislike for paladins overall, and I'm not sure why. I've not heard anyone complaining about the lawful monks ruining their fun, even though the monk oaths are far more specific/restrictive than the paladin code. (Granted, monk oaths are optional, but a lot of characters take them and no one complains.)
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A large part of it, I think, is that paladins have a specific code in addition to their alignment restrictions. But it also seem like a large number of RPG players just have a strong dislike for paladins overall, and I'm not sure why. I've not heard anyone complaining about the lawful monks ruining their fun, even though the monk oaths are far more specific/restrictive than the paladin code. (Granted, monk oaths are optional, but a lot of characters take them and no one complains.)
dorkness rising sums it up pretty well... too many players use gaming as an opportunity to be be wanton sociopaths and paladins harsh their buzz.
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Your reasons seem good to me.
1. I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you. Heal everyone else first, you might run out before of LoH before getting to the imp beguiled mage.
2. Do this often. In fact I often stabilize downed characters so they can be taken to authorities before bleeding out.
3. Not come up, but yeah I would LoH the civilians. :)
4. My paladin takes 'fight honorably' to mean not make the first strike, especially against humanoids. I also spend at least one attack doing non-lethal damage so they will drop before they die. This led to one amusing thing which ooc I was trying to accomplish. That said he would never have killed that Red Mantis except he was hidden....
As the only one to fail a check, my paladin was unaware of the enemy's creature type (humanoid-looking undead ). He moved in on the first round cast shield, demanded surrender. The enemy's first action didn't directly attack any of the party, so I demanded surrender and tried to hypnotize said enemy. It wasn't until round 3 I cast detect evil. Then smite evil and did lots of damage. As the only 9th level PC in a 5-9 scenario (playing down) I didn't want to continually steal everyone's thunder so it was nice to have an in-character reason to delay attacking.