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Meh... I've seen better today.
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I like that the fallout of the battle in Metropolis seems to be playing a big role. That was such a critique of the last movie, not brushing it under the rug but turning it into a major plot point of the sequel works nicely. You can see why people might view Superman as the bad guy.
The trailer has definitely got me interested. Wary, but interested.
I doubt Marvel execs are that worried.
The last movie was so-so and even if this one is amazeballs, it doesn't mean the rest of these series will be good or cramming everyone into a single movie will work. Marvel has a proven track record and has some sure things coming even if they're gambling on Ant Man, Black Panther, and Captain Marvel. And the tone is so very different there's not much overlap.
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Assuming by now that everyone has seen the ComicCon footage...
I agree with Jester David that it's a good thing there seem to be consequences to actions, even for Superman.
I think that casting Jesse Eisenberg as a young Lex Luthor is inspired. (I keep hearing his line from Now You See Me..."always be the smartest person in the room".
Gal Godot looks properly Amazonian in the few shots you see her in.
As far as the "grimdark" thing, if they were to listen to me (I'll pause for everyone to stop laughing), they'd begin with the grimdark tone and continue through the Bats vs. Supes battle, and they could pull it back some as the heroes get to know and trust one another. It does say "Dawn of Justice" in the title, so a guy can hope, right?
A bit better than the teaser...Still worried for the DC movies and their gloom and doom tone, as well as Zany! Lex Luthor.
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I'm excited to see the movie.
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Meh... I've seen better today.
Can't wait. Bruce Campbell is the man!
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I'm sure something in this vein was said on both Death Stars.Dude. Those guys made Guardians of the Galaxy bigger than Man of Steel. I think they're probably fairly confident.
You can hear a couple of Marvel execs pee in their pants.
They will be fine. DC is no threat.
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I'm sure something in this vein was said on both Death Stars.Dude. Those guys made Guardians of the Galaxy bigger than Man of Steel. I think they're probably fairly confident.
You can hear a couple of Marvel execs pee in their pants.
I think that comparison is more apt for Man of Steel bombing than Marvel movies suddenly going under.
Seriously though I don't see it as a threat. Not because it isn't going to succeed, but because the movies currently have pretty different tastes that I don't think their competition is more with other movies being released at the same time than that other companies superhero movie that was released several months later While they are both superhero movies they are very different superhero movies. I don't think there is a major portion of movie goers that are deciding that they can only watch one super hero movie every one to two years and their their major decision is to whether to watch a more light hearted superhero movie or a more gritty superhero movie.
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But that's just it.
Now that DC is putting forth their A game and setting up their Cinematic Universe, Marvel will be forced to shore up their upcoming movies and make sure that their story lines are just as just as compelling, provoking and innovative.
Marvel can't rest on their past laurels, impressive as they may be.
It's almost like the Golden Age of comics part deux.
DC and Marvel are in the gladiatorial pit voraciously fighting for our entertainment. WE ARE CAESAR, it's up to us to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.
Who comes out ahead of all this?
Why we the fans course.
To quote the Mad Prophet Sheen, "Winning!" Tiger blood and all.
We are, gentlemen, living in the Golden Age of Geekdom.
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I would suspect Marvel is secretly hoping this does well. Why? Because the more excited people get about super hero movies the more Marvel will make as they roll theirs out. This isn't about DC vs Marvel (unless they decide to open on the same weekend), it's about drawing in a large fan base.
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Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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"The red capes are coming. Red capes are coming!"
That line boggles me. I think it's reference to superheroes in general, not to the Superman. Or it is the name of those Superman-logo wielding soldiers. Line that would have made more sense is "superheroes are coming!" since it sounds more mocking, fitting of Luthor's.
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"The red capes are coming. Red capes are coming!"
That line boggles me. I think it's reference to superheroes in general, not to the Superman. Or it is the name of those Superman-logo wielding soldiers. Line that would have made more sense is "superheroes are coming!" since it sounds more mocking, fitting of Luthor's.
I think he was just poking fun at the old line 'the redcoats are coming' (referring to British troops in the colonies), and it wasn't meant to be much deeper than that (other than the Lex-ish notion that superheroes are inherently oppressive to 'normal folks' in a Harrison Bergeron-sort of way and that a 'war for independence' from them might be necessary).
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Wait... Dawn of Justice? Well that explains why Wonder Woman is in this film, it's the formation of the Justice League.
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Realistically DC doesn't pose much a threat to Marvel because most people are going to go see both movies, as long as they keep being consistently good.
IF the DCU is a threat to anything, it big budget non comic movies, since its likely that if DCU becomes as big a success as MCU, money is going to dry up for any big budget non-comic based movie.
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The Flash and Cyborg as well.Wait... Dawn of Justice? Well that explains why Wonder Woman is in this film, it's the formation of the Justice League.Yeah. Aquaman is there too.
Oh snap, I didn't know that.
Realistically DC doesn't pose much a threat to Marvel because most people are going to go see both movies, as long as they keep being consistently good.
IF the DCU is a threat to anything, it big budget non comic movies, since its likely that if DCU becomes as big a success as MCU, money is going to dry up for any big budget non-comic based movie.
I mean, theoretically the audiences would only have the patience for a finite number of superhero movies - this patience can run out in three years or in ten, and the number of movies released each year directly effects the burn-out. So, if DC do a lot of successful films that could cost marvel a few billions (the movies they won't make because the genre does have some expiration date).
This is all theoretical, of course.
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The Flash and Cyborg as well.Wait... Dawn of Justice? Well that explains why Wonder Woman is in this film, it's the formation of the Justice League.Yeah. Aquaman is there too.Oh snap, I didn't know that.
Realistically DC doesn't pose much a threat to Marvel because most people are going to go see both movies, as long as they keep being consistently good.
IF the DCU is a threat to anything, it big budget non comic movies, since its likely that if DCU becomes as big a success as MCU, money is going to dry up for any big budget non-comic based movie.
I mean, theoretically the audiences would only have the patience for a finite number of superhero movies - this patience can run out in three years or in ten, and the number of movies released each year directly effects the burn-out. So, if DC do a lot of successful films that could cost marvel a few billions (the movies they won't make because the genre does have some expiration date).
This is all theoretical, of course.
I recall reading an article...maybe half a decade ago...saying that the superhero "bubble" was about to burst. And...movies like Avengers and Winter Soldier pretty much proved that wrong.
While every pop culture has fads, sometimes genres can persist for a very very long time. Take the Western...That genre maintained pretty consistent popularity for what...over 3 decades? Maybe longer?
I'm not saying that Marvel and DC are going to continue to make billions off movies until the heat death of the Universe. But as long as they can continue to tell diverse stories and minimize retreading, I think both DC and Marvel can make movies for awhile
Although part of me suspects that the DC universe might very well collapse long before then...They don't seem to have any sort of systematic plan or oversight like the MCU has. Effectively, almost every studio is trying to create their own extended universe, and I really think only Star Wars and Marvel are going succeed.
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The Flash and Cyborg as well.Wait... Dawn of Justice? Well that explains why Wonder Woman is in this film, it's the formation of the Justice League.Yeah. Aquaman is there too.
Are you sure about that? I think I recall reading something at one point about Cyborg, but not the Flash. If that's true, are they getting the actor from the Flash TV show? It would be sort of odd to have the character played by different actors in the movie and TV show ...
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Realistically DC doesn't pose much a threat to Marvel because most people are going to go see both movies, as long as they keep being consistently good.
IF the DCU is a threat to anything, it big budget non comic movies, since its likely that if DCU becomes as big a success as MCU, money is going to dry up for any big budget non-comic based movie.
Maybe...
There is a finite number of movies people can budget for, or arrange baby sitting during. Schedules fill up, and there's usually a two or three week window where a movie is new before another movies comes along that might be as desirable or more so.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Realistically DC doesn't pose much a threat to Marvel because most people are going to go see both movies, as long as they keep being consistently good.
IF the DCU is a threat to anything, it big budget non comic movies, since its likely that if DCU becomes as big a success as MCU, money is going to dry up for any big budget non-comic based movie.
Maybe...
There is a finite number of movies people can budget for, or arrange baby sitting during. Schedules fill up, and there's usually a two or three week window where a movie is new before another movies comes along that might be as desirable or more so.
True...as long as studios are not stupid enough to make their properties fight though I don't foresee it as too much issue.
And I thought I remember reading that the key movie demographic that studios want for these movies is the teens through twenties, a demographic that has a bit more free time than older folks.
IMO, DC still has to prove that they can make one decent movie before I get excited about anything. And trailer aside, there are a lot of signs that this movie will be a mess.
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IMO, DC still has to prove that they can make one decent movie before I get excited about anything. And trailer aside, there are a lot of signs that this movie will be a mess.Such as?
The fact it has six superheroes featured in it, with three coming into conflict for some reason, along with Lex Luthor, backstory on Batman, and more. It takes the main cast of Man of Steel (Clark, Lois, Perry, Ma Kent) and keeps those but adds over well over half-a-dozen new characters.
And it's not just a stand-alone movie but trying to launch an entire franchise with several movies spinning out of this, the first already with its own trailer before the success/failure of this film is known.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Are you sure about that? I think I recall reading something at one point about Cyborg, but not the Flash. If that's true, are they getting the actor from the Flash TV show? It would be sort of odd to have the character played by different actors in the movie and TV show ...The Flash and Cyborg as well.Wait... Dawn of Justice? Well that explains why Wonder Woman is in this film, it's the formation of the Justice League.Yeah. Aquaman is there too.
Actually, the DCU movies are in a completely separate universe from the TV shows, and they've already cast someone as the Flash for the movies (I think Ezra something, but could be wrong).
It's something DC is doing markedly different from Marvel, in keeping their TV and movies separate.
That being said, one of the creators of Arrow/Flash tv shows at SDCC said something to the effect that it would be really cool to do a DC Crisis of Infinite Earths movie, which could combine the TV and movie universes.
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Honestly the part of the trailer I liked more than anything was Ma Kent saying "You don't owe them ANYTHING." Every version of Superman always portrays Ma and Pa Kent as these moral, upstanding farmers with real middle America values and such - basically a trope in and of themselves.
But imagine: your baby boy has all these powers, sure, but now the WHOLE world wants a piece of him. He's a threat to everyone, which means that big ol' "S" on his chest is nothing more than a target. Your baby boy is the most wanted man on the planet with everyone gunning for him.
I don't think I'd bake my son a pie and say "you have a purpose boy; now go get 'em!"
Now I know after that line she tells him to be a god or a savior or whatever they need him to be and all that but in that one line I imagine Martha Kent looking up at her baby boy and what she's really saying is "I don't WANT you to go and be a hero. Stay home. Be safe. YOU DON'T OWE THEM ANYTHING!"
No parent should ever have to shoulder the burden of their child constantly and knowingly placing themselves in harm's way. No parent should ever have to bury a child. I can't even begin to imagine the fear that Martha Kent has endured every waking moment of her life since she found that darling baby boy.
So no Clark. You don't owe them ANYTHING. Your mama loves you. She wants you safe, and alive, and to be her boy forever.
But that's yet another reason why we love this character isn't it? Because despite all he stands to lose and all he leaves behind, he CHOOSES to rise up and be a hero.
Batman has only Alfred and was honed by guilt and fear. Wonder Woman was born and bred a warrior. But Clark Kent has to look up, out of a cornfield in Kansas and see his loving parents and his high school sweetheart and this idyllic life he has, and then he has to CHOOSE to leave.
How many of us would leave paradise by choice to go and do something right for others?
So Martha Kent I feel your pain, your anguish. Hold your boy just a bit longer. Make him know that he's loved. But when he's made his choice just remember: he's no super BOY. He has to make his own way now.
Everyone with kids should listen to Ma Kent's words in the trailer just one more time and think what you would do.
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The fact it has six superheroes featured in it, with three coming into conflict for some reason, along with Lex Luthor, backstory on Batman, and more. It takes the main cast of Man of Steel (Clark, Lois, Perry, Ma Kent) and keeps those but adds over well over half-a-dozen new characters.IMO, DC still has to prove that they can make one decent movie before I get excited about anything. And trailer aside, there are a lot of signs that this movie will be a mess.Such as?
Except for the fact that the group movie is coming before some of the stand-alones, swap out a couple of names and you've just described The Avengers.
This is an honest question, so please don't read it in the tone of an outraged fanboy, but why does everyone seem to be so convinced that DC (and therefore any attempt at an extended universe) is going to crash and burn? Is it the grimdark thing? Because I don't see that as a deal breaker (or a permanent tone).
After Man of Steel, I don't have much confidence in DC's cinematic universe, and they are trying to do a LOT of catch-up with a single movie.
There's very much a possibility that DC's over-reaching.
The Avengers wouldn't have been remotely as good if it had had to waste half its run time on introducing characters.
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Avengers 1 didn't introduce ANY of the main characters. The closest to a main character it introduced was Maria Hill. Black Widow and Hawkeye may not have gotten their own solo movies, but they had previously appeared in Iron Man 2 and Thor, respectively.
Avengers 2 did introduce a few new characters: Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, and Ultron. (I don't really count the mid-credit sequence in Winter Soldier as a proper introduction for Wanda or Pietro.) And due to the twin-ness, Wanda and Pietro really kinda count as one introduction rather than two.
Dawn of Justice is trying to introduce: Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Lex Luthor, and Flash. And those are just the ones we know about...I wouldn't put it past them to shove a few more in there. I have already heard rumors that Cyborg will be in it as well.
I think DC is trying to copy the Marvel success, but they aren't showing the patience to build things up like Marvel did. There also isn't any real glue...Marvel had SHIELD to tie the different heroes together....DC doesn't have anything like that, so far as I am aware.
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The thing that sticks in my craw about the DC movie universe is this:
They had the chance years ago to go toe to toe with Marvel in terms of creating their own cinematic universe but they had NO faith in their own ability to do so.
They HAD Joss Whedon working on a WONDER WOMAN movie for them. And they scuttled it. It was him being off THAT project that allowed for Marvel to scoop him up to do the first AVENGERS movie.
They HAD George Miller working on a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie for them. But they didnt have enough faith in what he was doing or didnt want to shoulder the cost so they scuttled that. While not as financially successful MAD MAX: FURY ROAD is easily the best movie I've seen this summer and shows that Miller DEFINITELY had the chops to put together an entertaining action movie.
You know what lit the fire under DC/Warner? That first weekend box office tally for THE AVENGERS. When word of mouth came in and those box offfice records started to shatter? I'm pretty certain that execs at DC/Warner got REAMED.
That's why I don't have much faith in DC/Warner. Because they didnt have faith in themselves and they are most certainly playing catch up and playing it poorly. For the record I LIKED Man of Steel. Was it the most perfect representation of Superman? Nope. Still liked it and would have eagerly gone to see a straight up sequel. But no, instead we're getting BATMAN V. SUPERMAN. With Wonder Woman, Aquaman and (rumored Cyborg).
When that DC/Warner exec derided Marvel movies as being fun and that the dark tone of the DC movies represented something more "Realistic" It just made my decision to not take them seriously all the more valid.
This is an honest question, so please don't read it in the tone of an outraged fanboy, but why does everyone seem to be so convinced that DC (and therefore any attempt at an extended universe) is going to crash and burn? Is it the grimdark thing? Because I don't see that as a deal breaker (or a permanent tone).
Maybe because their first movie in this universe sucked.
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Are you sure about that? I think I recall reading something at one point about Cyborg, but not the Flash. If that's true, are they getting the actor from the Flash TV show? It would be sort of odd to have the character played by different actors in the movie and TV show ...The Flash and Cyborg as well.Wait... Dawn of Justice? Well that explains why Wonder Woman is in this film, it's the formation of the Justice League.Yeah. Aquaman is there too.Actually, the DCU movies are in a completely separate universe from the TV shows, and they've already cast someone as the Flash for the movies (I think Ezra something, but could be wrong).
It's something DC is doing markedly different from Marvel, in keeping their TV and movies separate.
That being said, one of the creators of Arrow/Flash tv shows at SDCC said something to the effect that it would be really cool to do a DC Crisis of Infinite Earths movie, which could combine the TV and movie universes.
The frustrating thing though is that for the most part, even though the CWverse and the Movie verse are separate, WB refuses to let Arrow/Flash use characters who might be in a later movie. WB even forced Arrow to stop using the Suicide Squad, even though they were introduced way back in season 2.
It's also the reason we can't get a Batman show, but are instead stuck with Gotham, which really wants to be Batman.
I personally would prefer separate universes, but not this stupid halfway situation. Its the worst of both worlds. You can't acknowledge other comic properties (like AoS mentioning Thor/Stark/Cap), but you can't have them just show up with different actors/storylines/characterizations.
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So my issues with DC and the DCU, and why I am really skeptical they are going to pull it off, are as followed:
DC seems to intentionally want to avert a lot of the strategies/tone of the Marvel movies. For instance, because Batman (who works as a dark and gritty character) is successful, our entire setting must also be dark, gritty, and humorless
On a related note, instead of introducing the main characters in stand alone movies (allowing characterization and background development), they are doing the reverse, starting off with an avengers and using that to launch individual movies. Again I don't know if this is going to work at all.
DC's horrible TV show policy, that I outlined above. Really I would prefer TV being separate from movies, and I think this is something they could do differently than Marvel. Marvel's placement of TV shows within the MCU has hindered the shows as much as it has helped, with AoS often having to switch gears or tread water waiting for big Marvel events, and a good chunk of Carter being spent on getting over a character's "death" who can't even appear on the show.
Instead we get some weird halfway situation. We can't have Batman and Superman show up, because movies. But we can't reference the movies existing...for reasons. The CWverse for instance...pretty much is in the exact situation as the MCU regarding character usage, even though in the case of WB its entirely self imposed. This is why Gotham has to be centered around a 12 year old Bruce Wayne, and Why Superman can only be in silhouette in Super Girl.
No "Kevin Fiege". DC is going with a "director led" movie approach, where the vision of given directors is allowed to guide the DCU. The problem here is...There is no one around who can hammer the DCU into shape or keep continuity consistent. What happens if Director A kills off a character key to a plotline that another director wants to adapt? What do you do if a character is portrayed one way in a specific movie but completely differently in another? How do you build up a villain pool if fan favorites get killed off? If you want to do an extended universe, you need a maestro to keep the universe running and to plan things out far in advance (IIRC, an interview with Fiege stated he had the MCU plotted out into the late 2020's). It also allows you to have enough oversight over properties that you can keep absolute stinkers from wrecking your future plans, by preventing their creation. You also need someone who "gets" the properties they oversee, and what makes comics work. I don't think anyone in the movie division falls into that category.
Finally...WB seems to not really know how to treat fans well, and almost seem like they barely tolerate their existence. Marvel announced their big upcoming movie slate by renting out the China theater in LA and packing it with fans in a special exhibition. WB...announced there line up in a shareholder meeting. When the polished Age of Ultron trailer got leaked early, Marvel released it themselves with a Joke about Hydra. When grainy and barely viewable footage was released from Comic Con for Suicide Squad, WB released the polished footage along with a long paragraph chiding people for piracy and how they were horrible people for wanting to view the trailer
I am sure I am forgetting a point or two...but these are my concerns with the DCU. Honestly, I just wish they would take the CWverse show runners and give them the reigns of DCU. Flash and Arrow show that they get the comic books, know how to do an extended universe, and can create a quality product. Just imagine what they could do with movie budgets and unfettered access to characters...
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Well we shouldn't confuse what seems like bad big picture decision making and the chances for individual movies to be successful. For example, there is almost nothing to suggest that Mission Impossible should be anything more than a pile of junk when looked at as a series - continuity is a joke, individual plots are contrived and nothing is cohesive - yet most of them are actually pretty good.
All those who criticize DCs decision to do a Justice League movie before giving individual heroes their own films forget that pretty much the only movie franchise to actually pull an Avengers was... well, the MCU. If DC choose a different approach to building their own franchise, well, it should be judged on it's own merits and not in comparison to Marvel.
Having said that, the direction for Batman Vs. Superman seems bad.The concept itself is borderline absurd and relies on the contrast between the grimdark Batman and the heroic Superman. Except... Superman already had a movie of his own in this universe, and that movie was all over the place in terms of plot, character development and even action scenes - but was coherent only on one level. It was grim and dark.
So it seems that DC have decided to do a "Batman Vs. Superman" but go against expectations and make it Serious and Edgy. It seems bad and almost laughable, and it probably will be.
But it has a chance of being good, so long as it is *nothing* like Man of Steel. We'll see.
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But it has a chance of being good, so long as it is *nothing* like Man of Steel. We'll see.
Being that it's being made by almost the exact same crew? I'm guessing more so the same than not.
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Well we shouldn't confuse what seems like bad big picture decision making and the chances for individual movies to be successful. For example, there is almost nothing to suggest that Mission Impossible should be anything more than a pile of junk when looked at as a series - continuity is a joke, individual plots are contrived and nothing is cohesive - yet most of them are actually pretty good.
All those who criticize DCs decision to do a Justice League movie before giving individual heroes their own films forget that pretty much the only movie franchise to actually pull an Avengers was... well, the MCU. If DC choose a different approach to building their own franchise, well, it should be judged on it's own merits and not in comparison to Marvel.
I think what we will get with the DCU is a Fox Marvel movie universe. Individual movies will be pretty good, but the continuity will be very very suspect. And the relative success of the movies will be all over the map, with some movies being absolutely horrible (I am looking at you Wolverine Origins)
The DCU SHOULD be something that is easy to pull off. Unlike Marvel, DC has control of all its properties, contains some of the most iconic comic book characters ever, and is better established on TV. BUT...I don't think it will ever be remotely as profitable as the MCU unless there are some major changes behind the scenes at Warner Brothers
Honestly, I just wish they would take the CWverse show runners and give them the reigns of DCU.
I could live with that...
Well we shouldn't confuse what seems like bad big picture decision making and the chances for individual movies to be successful. For example, there is almost nothing to suggest that Mission Impossible should be anything more than a pile of junk when looked at as a series - continuity is a joke, individual plots are contrived and nothing is cohesive - yet most of them are actually pretty good.
All those who criticize DCs decision to do a Justice League movie before giving individual heroes their own films forget that pretty much the only movie franchise to actually pull an Avengers was... well, the MCU. If DC choose a different approach to building their own franchise, well, it should be judged on it's own merits and not in comparison to Marvel.
I think what we will get with the DCU is a Fox Marvel movie universe. Individual movies will be pretty good, but the continuity will be very very suspect. And the relative success of the movies will be all over the map, with some movies being absolutely horrible (I am looking at you Wolverine Origins)
The DCU SHOULD be something that is easy to pull off. Unlike Marvel, DC has control of all its properties, contains some of the most iconic comic book characters ever, and is better established on TV. BUT...I don't think it will ever be remotely as profitable as the MCU unless there are some major changes behind the scenes at Warner Brothers
Though I can't say either one was my favorite, I have to admit I liked Wolverine Origins FAR more than I enjoyed The Wolverine.
I think I enjoyed the premise to The Wolverine, but I actually got pretty darn bored at parts.
Which of course influences a LOT of my opinion.
I liked most of the X-men movies (with the exception of perhaps III, have to see that one again though to see if my opinions of it still hold true) better then both though.