Dawn of Justice Trailer Leaked


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Sovereign Court

Krensky wrote:
lucky7 wrote:
Krensky wrote:


He killed Jimmy Olsen in the first few minutes without even giving his name or having it have ANY consequences to Clark or Lois and called it 'fun with the character' for Kirby's sake!
Wait, what?
He also kills Mercy.

That dude was Jimmy Olsen? I seriously doubt it. That was a CIA agent embedded with Lois.

Spoiler:
Isn't mercy a robot?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.


Krensky wrote:
Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.

That's the kind of thing that makes me think Snyder simply has no respect for the franchise. :/


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Zach Synder on Jimmy Olsen


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Article wrote:
because we got an entirely different version of the villain (Lex), which ended up being one of my favorite parts of the movie.

Article writer credibility == Zero.

Zack Snyder wrote:
we don’t have room for Jimmy Olsen in our big pantheon of characters, but we can have fun with him, right?”

Yeah. "Fun." It must be terrible if they had to keep track of all those characters. I imagine if he directs Justice League he'll have to kill half of them off because there's too many in the pantheon, right?

I had wondered if the people who made this movie actually cared about the source material. The more I read, the more I realized they didn't.

Article wrote:
Later in the film, when (SPOILER NAME REDACTED) crashes to Earth after being launched into space by Superman, a member of the military personnel goes out of their way to say the area is uninhabited. So at least Snyder learned some lessons from Man of Steel.

Or he learned from the hackjob English translations of the original Dragonball Z. That scene and the Mad Max-esque running vehicular gun battle--both through the streets of Gotham--did double duty for defecating all over Batman's character, too.

Scarab Sages

Freehold DM wrote:


That said, I hate all star because I hate Morrison.

Now I shall have to contemplate putting you back on one of the good lists.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Snyder took the most tedious, uninteresting, and unimportant parts of The Dark Knight Returns and The Death of Superman and made a overly long movie with no understanding, respect, or love for the source material out of it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
That said, I hate all star because I hate Morrison.

Wow. I mean I get it. I'm an absolutist when it comes to certain creators. Frank Miller will never get another red cent of mine ever as will Joe Madueria (sp?) so I get it.

But Morrison is problematic because he's so wildly inconsistent.

We3 was something of his that I loved.
His X-men run? not so much.
His JLA (DC) and Marvel Boy (Marvel) I loved.
Final Crisis (DC) UGH. dont get me started.

but ALL-STAR SUPERMAN was probably one of the best things that he's done in YEARS. I have the large format deluxe edition of that book and it really highlights the art and comes across as bigger than life.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

we got Green Lantern.

I'm damn glad we're getting dark and gritty.

Again, blaming the more colorful tone for the failure of that movie is disingenuous. There were many, many problems with that movie... Its (well deserved) bombing wasn't due to it not being "dark and gritty".

It's a poorly written, poorly directed, poorly acted, poorly produced movie. It could be darker than a black hole and it'd still suck.

several non dark and grittys bomb(Batman and Robin, anybody?), and are financial and professional nightmares(we'll never see Chris O'Donnell again, will we...?) All those that are not succeed when they don't break records(The Dark Knight).

You can't blame them at this point.

Well...I have no doubt that is exactly what the Warner Brothers Movie execs think, or at least say they think. But at least in the case of Green Lantern, the tone was not at all a problem. It was trying to just jam too much into a single movie as well using far far too much CGI in the film.

Tone was an issue with the Schumacher Batmans I agree...but that is mostly because they went way way way overboard on goofiness (and to be fair the burton movies sort of set them on that road). It's not like the spectrum of tone consists solely of B vs S and Batman Forever. There is a middle ground there, a middle ground that lots of comic movies manage to hit very well.

Liberty's Edge

Plus the Nolan movies weren't that dark.

Sovereign Court

Krensky wrote:
Plus the Nolan movies weren't that dark.

Oh really?

Silver Crusade

Krensky wrote:
Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.

Ugh...why? Was he afraid of running out of GrimDark?


is GrimmDark the opposite of HopenChange?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have no clue what that is.

I was this close to writing "GrimDork." I think it sorta fits.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Hrothdane wrote:

Superman when badly written (which is 97.548% percent of the time) is one-note. When written by someone who actually respects the character and provides good moral challenges while not dismissing him, Superman is damn interesting.

In that 97.548% of the time, he's one of my least favorite superheroes. In that golden percentage of times he's written well, he's in the running for my favorite.

Hw's not *actually* Superman, but Allen Moore's character Doctor Manhatten (from Watchmen) showcases perfectly just how interesting an all-powerful being can be.

Liberty's Edge

Hama wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Plus the Nolan movies weren't that dark.
Oh really?

Compared to Snyder's movies?

They're Adam West meets Christopher Reeve and the Archies in comparison.

Liberty's Edge

lucky7 wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.
Ugh...why? Was he afraid of running out of GrimDark?

According to Snyder there are too many characters and he wanted to have some fun.

By shooting him in the head.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Krensky wrote:
lucky7 wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.
Ugh...why? Was he afraid of running out of GrimDark?

According to Snyder there are too many characters and he wanted to have some fun.

By shooting him in the head.

maybe he was a leaf on the wind.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lord Snow wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:

Superman when badly written (which is 97.548% percent of the time) is one-note. When written by someone who actually respects the character and provides good moral challenges while not dismissing him, Superman is damn interesting.

In that 97.548% of the time, he's one of my least favorite superheroes. In that golden percentage of times he's written well, he's in the running for my favorite.

Hw's not *actually* Superman, but Allen Moore's character Doctor Manhatten (from Watchmen) showcases perfectly just how interesting an all-powerful being can be.

Yeah, but he's not at all Superman. Powerful, certainly, but lacking the heroics.

The other thing about Superman is that while he's powerful, he's usually facing powerful threats. Many of the more so than him. It's far from just "unbeatable except for the Kryptonite Gimmick". That might have been the Silver Age Superman, but it really hasn't been the case for decades.

Dr. Manhattan was interesting because he wasn't a superhero and there weren't interesting challenges for him to face. You couldn't have done an ongoing series of Dr. Manhattan fighting crime.

Another example, from the same author. Miracleman. Who essentially is a second generation copy of Superman.

So I guess the answer to how to make Superman interesting is to get a really good author to work on him. Which is pretty much the answer to any character.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Krensky wrote:
lucky7 wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.
Ugh...why? Was he afraid of running out of GrimDark?

According to Snyder there are too many characters and he wanted to have some fun.

By shooting him in the head.

maybe he was a leaf on the wind.

Not to defend Wheadon, but that was at the end of the movie and actually had an impact on the other characters.


thejeff wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:

Superman when badly written (which is 97.548% percent of the time) is one-note. When written by someone who actually respects the character and provides good moral challenges while not dismissing him, Superman is damn interesting.

In that 97.548% of the time, he's one of my least favorite superheroes. In that golden percentage of times he's written well, he's in the running for my favorite.

Hw's not *actually* Superman, but Allen Moore's character Doctor Manhatten (from Watchmen) showcases perfectly just how interesting an all-powerful being can be.

Yeah, but he's not at all Superman. Powerful, certainly, but lacking the heroics.

The other thing about Superman is that while he's powerful, he's usually facing powerful threats. Many of the more so than him. It's far from just "unbeatable except for the Kryptonite Gimmick". That might have been the Silver Age Superman, but it really hasn't been the case for decades.

I must disagree.

The only difference between silver age and now with the exception of doomsday has been a lot of grunting, screaming, and bloodying on superman's part. He still wins in the end, personally, if not with all the allies he had at the beginning of the fight. He remains essentially unbeatable. Except for kryptonite.


Krensky wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Krensky wrote:
lucky7 wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Yes, that was Jimmy Olsen according to the credits and Snyder.
Ugh...why? Was he afraid of running out of GrimDark?

According to Snyder there are too many characters and he wanted to have some fun.

By shooting him in the head.

maybe he was a leaf on the wind.
Not to defend Wheadon, but that was at the end of the movie and actually had an impact on the other characters.

Quicksilver, then?

Liberty's Edge

Again, still a crappy lazy thing, but its at the end, has an effect, and wasn't done just for s*#$s and giggles.

Whedon doesn't know how to maintain tension in the third act, but he at least has some level of respect for his characters. Wash and Pietro went out in blazes of glory, even if they didn't have to and shouldn't have.


Krensky wrote:

Again, still a crappy lazy thing, but its at the end, has an effect, and wasn't done just for s%%@s and giggles.

Whedon doesn't know how to maintain tension in the third act, but he at least has some level of respect for his characters. Wash and Pietro went out in blazes of glory, even if they didn't have to and shouldn't have.

I'd say coulson, but he got rezzed.

Liberty's Edge

He still got to see what the thing did.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:

Superman when badly written (which is 97.548% percent of the time) is one-note. When written by someone who actually respects the character and provides good moral challenges while not dismissing him, Superman is damn interesting.

In that 97.548% of the time, he's one of my least favorite superheroes. In that golden percentage of times he's written well, he's in the running for my favorite.

Hw's not *actually* Superman, but Allen Moore's character Doctor Manhatten (from Watchmen) showcases perfectly just how interesting an all-powerful being can be.

Yeah, but he's not at all Superman. Powerful, certainly, but lacking the heroics.

The other thing about Superman is that while he's powerful, he's usually facing powerful threats. Many of the more so than him. It's far from just "unbeatable except for the Kryptonite Gimmick". That might have been the Silver Age Superman, but it really hasn't been the case for decades.

I must disagree.

The only difference between silver age and now with the exception of doomsday has been a lot of grunting, screaming, and bloodying on superman's part. He still wins in the end, personally, if not with all the allies he had at the beginning of the fight. He remains essentially unbeatable. Except for kryptonite.

Even when kryptonite's involved he always wins in the end. He's a superhero. That's their thing. Batman always wins in the end. Spider-man always wins in the end. Captain America always wins in the end.

That's the formula for superhero stories. They're unbeatable because that's how the genre works. Whether their Achilles' Heel gets used against them or not. That's just a chance to have them find a clever way around the weakness.

Scarab Sages

thejeff wrote:

Even when kryptonite's involved he always wins in the end. He's a superhero. That's their thing. Batman always wins in the end. Spider-man always wins in the end. Captain America always wins in the end.

That's the formula for superhero stories. They're unbeatable because that's how the genre works. Whether their Achilles' Heel gets used against them or not. That's just a chance to have them find a clever way around the weakness.

Well, Wolverine didn't win in the end. Captain America didn't win in the end. They died. The fact that Cap got brought back later or Old Man Logan got pulled from another timeline doesn't mean they didn't die.

Heroes can lose. Heroes can die. The key is to make those deaths mean something.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dying does not necessarily mean loosing.

Just ask Beowulf.


Imbicatus wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Even when kryptonite's involved he always wins in the end. He's a superhero. That's their thing. Batman always wins in the end. Spider-man always wins in the end. Captain America always wins in the end.

That's the formula for superhero stories. They're unbeatable because that's how the genre works. Whether their Achilles' Heel gets used against them or not. That's just a chance to have them find a clever way around the weakness.

Well, Wolverine didn't win in the end. Captain America didn't win in the end. They died. The fact that Cap got brought back later or Old Man Logan got pulled from another timeline doesn't mean they didn't die.

Heroes can lose. Heroes can die. The key is to make those deaths mean something.

And Superman died to Doomsday. Then he came back.

Yeah, you can have death stories, but they've got little to nothing to do with the power level of the character. And as Krensky said, they rarely actually involve losing.

The regular Wolverine will be back. Eventually.


Freehold DM wrote:
Krensky wrote:

Again, still a crappy lazy thing, but its at the end, has an effect, and wasn't done just for s%%@s and giggles.

Whedon doesn't know how to maintain tension in the third act, but he at least has some level of respect for his characters. Wash and Pietro went out in blazes of glory, even if they didn't have to and shouldn't have.

I'd say coulson, but he got rezzed.

Coulson's death also had an impact on charactets and viewers, since the writer actually made us care about him.

Jimmy Olsen's death was completely pointless. Most people didn't even realize that random guy was him.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Coulson never died, that's why that one lady says to Fury about the collectors cards "those weren't in his pocket, they were in his locker"

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Tahiti is a magical place.


I'm still pretty sure he was told quicksilver was supposed to die find out how.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Coulson never died, that's why that one lady says to Fury about the collectors cards "those weren't in his pocket, they were in his locker"

Actually, that's because Nick Fury stole them from his locker so he could use them to unite the Avengers...

The fact that the character was planned/retconned to survive due to his popularity or whatever doesn't change the fact that his "death" had meaning. It did something for the characters and the viewers.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Krensky wrote:
Tahiti is a magical place.

I heard it sucks.


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Freehold wants a GRIMDARK and GRITTY Wonder Twins film.

Form of...WATER! REALLY DARK AND GRITTY WATER!!!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm a longtime comic book junky myself. While sometimes the changes made to the movies are not the greatest and in a lot of cases irk the fans. I don't think that it makes them a terrible movie or is a disrespect for the source material. With the exception of everything after the first 45 mins of the newer Fantastic Four movie.

All in all I've thought the Marvel done movies, Ironman, Avengers & the like have all been exceptional. Sure some of the changes make me think WTF dude. Are they perfect no, but they take those characters we love and bring them to life to entertain us. In that they are doing they job.

I just saw Superman v Batman and while again some of the changes what not made me think wtf or something along those lines I have to say I really loved the movie and I think they took the fundamentals of those separate storylines and made them into 1 good one. The Jimmy Olson thing I'm kind of ok with that for this reason. While in credits and Snyder says it was jimmy... but this is easily something that could be corrected as say he was CIA so he was impersonating him and the real Jimmy is alive & well. Probably not but oh well I never really cared for Olson.

I just think people are to hard on some of these movies, the ones that are really good such as this & the others. Ones like the newer Fantastic Four, Green Lantern etc those are the ones that were done utterly wrong. Though entertainment wise I did like Green Lantern. And also I don't get the hate over the CGI suit I really thought it looked awesome and was far from any of the worse things in that movie.


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Norman Osborne wrote:

Freehold wants a GRIMDARK and GRITTY Wonder Twins film.

Form of...WATER! REALLY DARK AND GRITTY WATER!!!

I WANT SILT AND SHARP PEBBLES IN THAT WATER


Lemmy wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Krensky wrote:

Again, still a crappy lazy thing, but its at the end, has an effect, and wasn't done just for s%%@s and giggles.

Whedon doesn't know how to maintain tension in the third act, but he at least has some level of respect for his characters. Wash and Pietro went out in blazes of glory, even if they didn't have to and shouldn't have.

I'd say coulson, but he got rezzed.

Coulson's death also had an impact on charactets and viewers, since the writer actually made us care about him.

Jimmy Olsen's death was completely pointless. Most people didn't even realize that random guy was him.

as usual, it's okay when whedon does it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You got a better explanation for Buffy.


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Freehold DM wrote:
as usual, it's okay when whedon does it.

Did you not even read what I wrote or is your hatred for Whedon so irrational that you simply can't accept he did something better than someone else?

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, I hope that dark gritty and grimdark starts to vanish by the time Wonder Woman comes up. Suicide Squad- there it fits the bill better. But Shazam is the least grim thing ever. So are the Flash, Booster Gold & Blue Beetle and Green Lantern Corps. At least Goyer is not writing those movies and Snyder not directing.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

All this darkness seems reasonable to me! More places to hide! +4 racial to Stealth can't help me that much anymore.

I mean...uh...I'm Batgnome!

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Krensky wrote:

Again, still a crappy lazy thing, but its at the end, has an effect, and wasn't done just for s%%@s and giggles.

Whedon doesn't know how to maintain tension in the third act, but he at least has some level of respect for his characters. Wash and Pietro went out in blazes of glory, even if they didn't have to and shouldn't have.

I'd say coulson, but he got rezzed.

Coulson's death also had an impact on charactets and viewers, since the writer actually made us care about him.

Jimmy Olsen's death was completely pointless. Most people didn't even realize that random guy was him.

as usual, it's okay when whedon does it.

No.

It's two different things.

Whedon's a hack because he uses it as a cheap emotional manipulation of the audience and characters. He also uses it constantly because he doesn't know how to show danger or build tension.

Snyder's an ass because he killed a beloved and important character off as an Easter egg and in joke because he thought it would be 'fun'.


Yeah Suicide Squad I am a bit more hopeful on, since A) a darker tone fits, and B) it looks like there will actually be some humor in it.

Wonder Woman has me a bit more hopeful since it's a completely different director, although the footage seen so far seems to be mostly completely absent of color.

I think my ultimate problem for me is that I just don't like Zach Snyder. Everything clicked into place about the problems with his last two DC movies when you hear that one of his dream projects is adapting Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead. Of course a hardcore fan of Ayn Rand would interpret Batman and Superman this way. Hell, Superman is himself almost antithetical to Objectivist philosophy.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Deleted Scene.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:

Freehold wants a GRIMDARK and GRITTY Wonder Twins film.

Form of...WATER! REALLY DARK AND GRITTY WATER!!!

I WANT SILT AND SHARP PEBBLES IN THAT WATER

Meh. I'd only be interested if Zan turned into tequila, and Jayna was addicted to the fame of appearing in funny animal videos on Youtube.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The ə! wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:

Freehold wants a GRIMDARK and GRITTY Wonder Twins film.

Form of...WATER! REALLY DARK AND GRITTY WATER!!!

I WANT SILT AND SHARP PEBBLES IN THAT WATER
Meh. I'd only be interested if Zan turned into tequila, and Jayna was addicted to the fame of appearing in funny animal videos on Youtube.

And now I play the waiting game...

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Snyder didn't realize that this was a joke.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rosgakori wrote:
Well, I hope that dark gritty and grimdark starts to vanish by the time Wonder Woman comes up. Suicide Squad- there it fits the bill better. But Shazam is the least grim thing ever. So are the Flash, Booster Gold & Blue Beetle and Green Lantern Corps. At least Goyer is not writing those movies and Snyder not directing.

BLUE AND GOLD!

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