attempting to crawl will draw aoo's from all who threaten. i've also heard that 5ft is the most you can crawl as a move action. other games i've played stated it was a full-round action to crawl, and some other gms would not allow it unless you had the rogue crawl talent or the fast crawl feat moving at half speed.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes and no.
First off, there is no rule stating that their movement ends after being tripped, so the official answer is "no, it does not end their movement."
However, once prone, they only have a limited number of options. Standing up is a move action, which effectively stops their previous movement and takes a second move action to stand. Crawling 5 feet takes a move action, so this also effectively ends their movement and takes a second move action. If they don't have a second move action, they cannot stand up or crawl. Both of these incur an AoO.
Based on these two options, the answer is, "effectively yes, even though it's officially no."
Now, they may have some other ability which allows them to crawl or stand without taking a move action; if this is the case, they MAY be able to continue their movement without expending another move action, which would allow them to do what your GM did. For example, the rogue talent rogue crawl wild allow them to continue crawling at half speed (and still provoke AoO), so it wouldn't require an additiona movement so long as they still have movement available.
if they have the monkey style ability they could stand as a swift action without provoking with an acrobatic dc 20 check. they could also stay prone without -4 the ac and -4 to attack....
Realistically and cinematically, the tripped creatures should get some fraction of their remaining movement before they fall, depending upon how much the Trip attempt succeeded by, and being cut short by collision with any object or other creature, including their previously tripped comrades.
Second Bookrat - this is exactly the ruling that can be justified RAW.
Also, this was a bad GMing decision - if you've been playing for 5 years, the GM should not spring rules changes on players as a way to f!@* them over. If I were this GM and didn't like how trips were going/thought this should be the rule/had this plan, I would feel obligated to notify the players about the rules change - furthermore, if this totally invalidates one character's build, I would think long and hard before making that change. Then, if I felt like it should be that way, I would give that player an option to make adjustments to their character.
[Edit] Actually, this brings up an interesting question - if a rogue or a character with the fast crawl feat is tripped or voluntarily drops prone, can they continue their movement at half speed, or is fast crawling at half speed a separate type of move action?
It sounds like the GM was getting frustrated by the effectiveness of this reach/trip build, and decided to change things around to make this tactic less effective.
agree....gms hate the martial debuff reach trippers. everytime from now on when i dirty trick blind an enemy, the gm will reference naked gun when the towel was thrown in frank drebbins face during the bathroom fight scene lol.. i laugh it off then remind him and the pcs what the blinded condition is
too fun
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Crawling is part of movement, not a separate move action equivalent like standing from prone.
Technically correct. Specifically, a 5' crawl is equivalent to your entire movement speed (typically 30' for most characters); i.e. one movement action. So if you've used up any of your normal movement, then you don't have enough movement left to crawl. Just like a second diagonal movement on a grid is equivalent to 10' of movement. So if you've already moved 25' and one diagonal, you cannot move diagonally for that last 5'.
Crawling
You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl. A crawling character is considered prone and must take a move action to stand up, provoking an attack of opportunity.
However, some abilities change the crawl rules, such as the rogue talent linked above. That particular ability lets you crawl at half your movement speed (so a normal 5' crawl takes up 10' of your movement).
Please note that this post is my interpretation of the rules; I beieve my interpretation is very logical and valid, although others may disagree and have a perfectly logical and valid argument of their own.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, this all seems like unnecessary rule bending to get back at the trip build. I guess, depending on the campaign, not every enemy type might make sense, but snakes, flying enemies, even spiders are what you should be sending at the trip build to challenge the character. Or if you want to be a real jerk another trip build, or an enlarged grappler.
Being tripped does not end your movement per se, but it does keep you from moving any more until you can remove that condition. If you can stand up as a swift or free action you could do that and continue moving. If you have a 'crawl speed' of greater than 5' you could continue your movement at the pro-rated rate. Otherwise you must end your movement to take another action to either remove the prone condition or crawl.
|
|
"Oh, your tripping my buddies? Say hello to be little bow!!"
Sorry you got waxed by a GM frustration ruling. Tactics for creatures can change up when encountering significant challenges that warrant such changes, this is where the GM should have NPC's/Enemies gain some basic intelligence instead of doing the same thing as those other tripped and prone guys at the door.
Absolutely wrong. Actions are interrupted, and then the action can be continued if possible. And since crawling is a type of movement, it can be included on a pro-rated basis just like climbing, swiming, or flying.
i guess in the case of the op...prone baddies should of attacked at -4. the crawl option would only net the enemy 5feet of movement(not step) and provoke from all that threatened
There is another way to interpret them. It's things that are involved in movement, but are their own separate actions. Like the fast dismount under dismount. Or like all the bolded items under "cast a spell". It's the part in the description that says "as a move action" that makes me feel they are separate actions than the generic "move your speed"
Realistically and cinematically, the tripped creatures should get some fraction of their remaining movement before they fall, depending upon how much the Trip attempt succeeded by, and being cut short by collision with any object or other creature, including their previously tripped comrades.
You want cinematic play, you go to Storyteller. D20 and it's descendants on the other hand, are war games. That's why back in first edition, movement was measured in inches.... inches on a game mat.
Every action in the game is discrete and integer. You have a movement. something stops the movement, whether it's you, a wall you run into, or a trip, the movement is stopped and that move action has ended.
What I meant was that somebody who gets tripped might stagger along for several feet before falling over (has happened to me). And then the next one who tries to resist the trip does the same thing, and then falls on top of their comrade.
Realistically and cinematically, the tripped creatures should get some fraction of their remaining movement before they fall, depending upon how much the Trip attempt succeeded by, and being cut short by collision with any object or other creature, including their previously tripped comrades.
You want cinematic play, you go to Storyteller. D20 and it's descendants on the other hand, are war games. That's why back in first edition, movement was measured in inches.... inches on a game mat.
Every action in the game is discrete and integer. You have a movement. something stops the movement, whether it's you, a wall you run into, or a trip, the movement is stopped and that move action has ended.
What I meant was that somebody who gets tripped might stagger along for several feet before falling over (has happened to me). And then the next one who tries to resist the trip does the same thing, and then falls on top of their comrade.
Depends on the cinematic of tripping. I can easily envision what you're describing: the classic "put something in front of their legs and make them fall" maneuver. Pathfinder even encourages this though by giving creatures with more than two legs bonuses. However, there are many ways to bring a foe to the ground and make them prone (which is essentially what the trip maneuver is) without doing it the classic comedy way. Judo practitioners specialize in this. I've seen people get taken down rather easily with a quarterstaff (and I've done it to people with a broom handle); I've seen body checks knock someone to the ground (and so has everyone who has watched American football).
So while you're absolutey correct in what your thinking, not all ways of bringing someone to the ground and prone will make them continue their forward momentum.
Realistically and cinematically, the tripped creatures should get some fraction of their remaining movement before they fall, depending upon how much the Trip attempt succeeded by, and being cut short by collision with any object or other creature, including their previously tripped comrades.
You want cinematic play, you go to Storyteller. D20 and it's descendants on the other hand, are war games. That's why back in first edition, movement was measured in inches.... inches on a game mat.
Every action in the game is discrete and integer. You have a movement. something stops the movement, whether it's you, a wall you run into, or a trip, the movement is stopped and that move action has ended.
What I meant was that somebody who gets tripped might stagger along for several feet before falling over (has happened to me). And then the next one who tries to resist the trip does the same thing, and then falls on top of their comrade.
Sure they might. But a square is a pretty big area. They could stagger forward for 3' and still be in the same square.
gm: "i forgot to tell you.... the goblins have monkey style and a hybrid form of spring attack that only goblins can use"