Flagging for wrong forum (Should be in the Houserules forum).
I'm not a big fan of the rule myself. It seems very disconnected from the actual Initiative rules. If you're going to make something have a bigger effect on a 20, it should be something that feels like a natural extension of the mechanic. Weapons hit harder (critical hits), Saves bust through things the person might not even have been capable of making before (Nato 20 on a save the guy had no way of making).
If you want to do something special for Nat 20s on Initiative, make it something like the guy who got a Nat 20 gets a Surprise round (and/or gets to act in the Surprise round as if he had Uncanny Dodge).
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It's not natural at all.
"That guy has good reflexes" is not terrifying enough to make people frightened.
Besides, even your logic only holds up with a character who immediately charges in to combat when his turn comes up.
What if the Ninja wins Init and spends his turn turning Invisible and silently creeping across the battlefield to shank a dude next turn?
What if the Wizard casts Haste?
What if the Fighter uses a bow?
And a Surprise round is not just "more damage". In fact, unless you're using a ranged weapon, no damage should be involved at all. It's a single extra Move or Standard. Enough to buff or change positions.
A houserule like this should be, above all, CONSISTENT, and not just useful for one of the players in the game.
That's a bit ambiguous. I allow it, but I don't know how many GMs do.
So now I don't like your proposed houserule nor do I like your previous one, especially.
It's that you did away with Surprise rounds, which essentially makes Stealth worthless, and don't seem to have a good grasp of game balance (Ninjas are broken? Lel).
That's a bit ambiguous. I allow it, but I don't know how many GMs do.
I was going to protest, but a quick google tells me paizo failed to import the revised 3.5 wording that made it clear you could do so, so I guess it is ambiguous again.
I also allow partial charges on suprise round - I haven't encountered a game yet that doesn't, so I think it is a common interpretation.
Is it because I insulted Naruto because it wasn't that good of a show
... Lol.
I'm dotting this thread for sheer entertainment value.
That's a bit ambiguous. I allow it, but I don't know how many GMs do.I was going to protest, but a quick google tells me paizo failed to import the revised 3.5 wording that made it clear you could do so, so I guess it is ambiguous again.
I also allow partial charges on suprise round - I haven't encountered a game yet that doesn't, so I think it is a common interpretation.
The wording really hints that you should be able to partial charge on a surprise round. Considering that you can partial charge ONLY when you have a standrd action but not a full round action (basically, when you're denied a full but still have a standard available), a surprise round is the most common situation where that happens. I guess the second most common would be when you're at exactly zero hit points.
As for the OP, I have to agree with Rynjin on this. House ruling that a nat 20 on an initiative roll give you something completey not related to initiative and only helps combat focused charavters (and not also support characters or others) is silly. Completey removing surprise rounds is even sillier, as it gimps some of the lowest tiered classes beyond their poor pathetic existences - so much so that even Rogue Glory can't fix them.
But hey, it's your game, and if your players are having fun, then have at it. As long as all the folks at the table agree upon the house rules and are having fun, I say go for it. But know that many people here will just look at such odd house rules and then proceed to explain why they're bad. Not badwrongfun, but logically inconsistent with poor rules integration.
It's that you did away with Surprise rounds, which essentially makes Stealth worthless, and don't seem to have a good grasp of game balance (Ninjas are broken? Lel).
Well let's be fair before we jump to conclusions. It's entirely possible that enough house rules have been introduced to actually allow ninja's to dominate the game. Not sure I would still call it Pathfinder at that point but it's possible.
Why not give the roller of the high-most-mighty Nat 20 an extra action - be it Standard, Swift, Move to represent these uber-super-dooper reactions they have just evinced? Keep it simple. Anything else outside of getting to act is not connected to what initiative is or does.
On a semi-related note, The Necropunk Campaign Setting from Little Red Goblin Games has a great mechanic called Phase Rounds that happen before any other action in a normal round - only certain uber-quick or prescient classes get to act in a Phase Round. Something like this could work for your Nat 20 Initiative schtick...
I see wat ur saying blakmane but think of it this way. If you were on the other side of someone and you plan to ambush them and the not only respond much quicker then expected but target you personally and attack with some kind of battle roar it would shake you a little bit trust me I live in a world of violence and sometimes just the presence of a competent and aggressive fighter is enough to make even a battle tasted warrior doubt himself but perhaps I can say that they pcs don't have to attack the monster they made the check against
Again, this only favors the combatants, not the supporters. How will a nat 20 help a bard going into song, a rogue going into sneak mode, a wizard casting summon monster or haste?
Also, as an experienced combatant with war experience, seeing a competent soldier or "warrior" (for lack of a better term) on the other side does not strike fear in me nor anyone I've had the pleasure to serve with. Pathfinder rules do not always mesh well with reality, and I find it to be a generally bad idea to try to justify rules of a fantasy game with how things work in reality. I have rarely seen this work well.
And lastly, please try to use paragraphs and puncuation. It makes reading posts much easier.
Edit: I only mention my experiences to show that different people have different experiences and reactions to similar situations. And also to try to show that we shouldn't justify rules for a fantasy game using our subjective life experiences.
I think the problem is that it is really only worth a dam if you have a decent intimidate skill. If that natural 20 should really have impact i would just say that you go first if you get a Nat 20. That way a low dex guy would some times get the jump on speedy Gonzales like a save Fail on 1 and attack always hit on 20.
I think giving a bonus move action would probably be enough for most. That benefits martials much more than casters, but LIKE I GIVE A FLYING ————
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We have vastly different init scores in our games. My paladin has a score of 0, our sorcerer is in the 15+...
Honestly, 'If someone rolls a Nat 20 on Initiative, then they automatically go first regardless of score' would be fair, thematic and most welcome in my games :)
Also, I love the "It's because I dissed Naruto" line, and will look for excuses to use it elsewhere. Rynjin, I am very disappointed that you did not respond to it and admit that yes, it was because of that. You are clearly biased here and speaking from your heart rather than your head.
Also, I love the "It's because I dissed Naruto" line, and will look for excuses to use it elsewhere. Rynjin, I am very disappointed that you did not respond to it and admit that yes, it was because of that. You are clearly biased here and speaking from your heart rather than your head.
Yes, because all TTRPGers are otaku fanboys who fangasm over a classic ninja trick of going invisible. Because, obviously! Grognard = Otaku!
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Eh, I dislike ninja because of the CHA Ki thing. So I homebrewed it to use Wisdom again.
As far as a nat 20 on initiative. I usually give that player a surprise round and they act first in the sequence and exactly halfway through the sequence. So they average about three to four extra rounds per combat.
Eh, I dislike ninja because of the CHA Ki thing. So I homebrewed it to use Wisdom again.
As far as a nat 20 on initiative. I usually give that player a surprise round and they act first in the sequence and exactly halfway through the sequence. So they average about three to four extra rounds per combat.
I want to be a level 20 diviner in your game:)
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I want to be a level 20 diviner in your game:)
You'd think my players would get the hint that I love Diviners and other "mystic" classes right? Right now I have a thursday game of kingmaker I'm doing, and a sunday game of Dragon's Demand my friend is DMing, over roll20 and skype. PM me if interested.
I want to be a level 20 diviner in your game:)You'd think my players would get the hint that I love Diviners and other "mystic" classes right? Right now I have a thursday game of kingmaker I'm doing, and a sunday game of Dragon's Demand my friend is DMing, over roll20 and skype. PM me if interested.
Sounds great but Thursday is already gaming nigth. And my Whife and kid wouldent like me spending sunday with strangers:) but thanks.
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Ok but the rule doesn't just help combat for the one character but for the whole party so yes it does help the rogue and maybe even the bard under the right conditions.
Also so long as you use common sense you can apply reality to the fame where the rules are ether vague or just not there. Look the rule is weak for a reason its suppose to give the pcs a slight advantage over 1 monster if they make the check. Does the shaken condition help the rouge or bard... No but it does help the fighter ir magus Dutch in the long run helps the whole party..
Besides a party should work ad a team and if they do then what helps one will help them all.
As I said in the beginning, you can use it if you want. This is a game, and games should be fun. If this rule makes the game more fun for you and your table, then by all means use it. But you asked for people's opinion of the rule, and as I predicted, no one would agree with it. So use it if you like, no one will stop you (except maybe one of your players or your next GM).
Also, with complete sincerity: thank you for using paragraphs and punctuation. It improves the quality of your posts by several steps.
What's the argument against charging on a surprise round?
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
I would say a bonus move action to show just how fast he's moving, or ruling him #1 on the list regardless of final totals. Easy peasy.
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20s go first, in order of init modifier, then everyone else, even if they have a higher total. Sounds like a brilliant suggestion. Only cloud I see is if you use group initiative for monsters, it could get a bit overwhelming.
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I already use a House Rule saying that rolling a natural 20 on initiative gives one of the following benefits.
1. If you are surprised you are not treated as Flat Footed during the surprise round as you spot the enemy before they strike.
2. If you roll a natural 20 on a normal initiative roll you get a surprise round action as you get the jump on the enemy.
3. If you roll a natural 20 on a surprise round initiative roll you can take a full round action in your surprise round.
I also have a few other natural 20 rules which include:
If you roll a natural 20 on a saving throw you negate any secondary effects that might happen on a successful save (even if you lack uncanny dodge or a similar ability). So any power that has a lesser effect or 1/2 damage/effect on a successful save does no damage. The exception to this is if you actually need a natural 20 to succeed then this rule does not apply.
If you roll a natural 20 on a skill check, the skill check gets an additional +5 bonus. For instance a character with a +5 in a skill rolls a natural 20, this counts as a 30 as a result.
Ok so I'm running a custom game and one of the pcs rolls a nat 20 on initiative and I think to myself what a waste of a nat 20. Thats when inspiration hits me so I tell the player to pick a monster and roll a intimidation check and I rolled a will check for the monster I failed to beat his check and rolled a d4 and gave the monster the shaken condition for 3 rounds but in order to lock it in the player had to make his first attack against the monster he intimidated since everything that happens during the initiative and the first round happens at the same time. My players really liked this rule and idk if it I actually a rule or if I just made it up but either way what do you guys think about itI'm pretty sure your players will change their tune when the next really big nasty gets a Nat 20 on THEM.
For me, I consider it absolute rubbish. For one thing, it needs a natural One corrollary rule.
Totally agree with you about "change your tune" and "absolute rubbish".