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My suggestion...Inspired blade Swashbuckler and fencing grace. Learn to love the rapier. After you keen it then feel free to take butterfly sting feat (as your damage is precision and not multiplied on a critical) and let your team mate with the biggest crits take them. They will love you.
Investigators have very crappy combat ability till fast study. The swashbuckler helps make levels 1-5 relevant.
FIrst discovery will be Dex mutagen. This will bump your armor as well. Dump your Str and Take up Wisdom to help negate the wis hit from mutagen.
You want a bow grab a crossbow but be moving in as your using it and ditching it when you can. Don't spread your combat focus.
Infusion discovery is a feat tax but really worth grabbing in your build.
1. Investigator talents aren't that great early on. You want the ones that affect Studied Combat, but those only come only at high, high levels (9th).
2. Are those stats final? They look pretty good for an Elven Curved Blade user, if you don't get the Agile enchant you'll be able to take full advantage of Power Attack, so that's pretty good. I am assuming you are a Half-Elf and you get easy access to the ECB...
3. Shield of Swings and Combat Expertise are terrible, terrible feats. You don't want to miss out on any attack bonus you can get... except it's for Power Attack, which is already great. Look into Furious Focus to get more attack on your first swing per turn, Dodge, Weapon Focus...
4. There's some new feats on the Melee Tactics Toolbox that might be fun for you: Artful Dodger stacks with Dodge and you could go the Spring Attack route to then get Circling Mongoose and have a very mobile build.
I don't see artful dodger or circling mongoose anywhere. Is it pfs legal?
It's in the "Melee Tactics Toolbox", the PDF for this comes out march 25. Hopefully the material in it will become PFS legal a few weeks after it's released. But if it's a current character you might not have time to wait for all that.
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Another thing to keep in mind is that early on your studied combat's only giving you +1's and +2's, but later on you're getting large, flat bonuses to both that will raise your attack bonus and damage (damage not mitigated by offhand attacks) to fighter-level numbers.
If you were to take dualwielding of any kind, you could really benefit from those flat bonuses. But the feat deficit's always a sore point, and this also prohibits the use of your elixirs in combat though, unless you invest in some quickdraw skills and free-action stowing gear. So sure, taking a curveblade works too.
Still, I'm starting to find that using a ranged weapon is particulary deadly, as is single-target high damage attacks in melee.
Consider taking point blank, precise, and focused shot, ranged study, and possibly even vital strike, and taking bow or light crossbow. Take amazing inspiration (investigator talent) and inspired strike (feat, to add inspiration dice to your studied strike). Deadly Aim to round it all out, when you can. Not sure if anyone remembers or knows of any other feats that add 1/2 dex damage to crossbows, but whatever.
Alternately, if you're fond of throwing around flasks of alchemical stuff like tanglefoots from time to time, consider taking a thrown weapon like daggers as your go-to ranged weapon, and taking quickdraw to acommidate it. The bomber's eye elixir will help with your throwing. Here we go:
at level 6, human, same-ish stats you mentioned. PB shot(level 1), precise shot (1), ranged study (3), focused shot (5). You're gonna have to wait until 7 for deadly aim and 9 for vital strike, unfortunately, unless your GM is handing out other bonus feats.
Consider taking Quick study at 3 and/or the domino effect inspiration at 5, to save your swift/move actions for other things (like poisons, studied combat, and/or reloading a crossbow or other things).
Your numbers are looking like this: BAB 4, attack bonus with ranged weapon (mw or +1 bow) is +8 (+9 p.b shot) and +11 with studied combat.
using your focused shot/p.b/studied combat/studied strike, you can basically just pop any one combatant in the same round you sutdied them, for d8 + 3(s.c) + 1 (P.B.) +4 (int) +2d6 studied strike, averaging 19.5 damage. Sprinkle on other effects like deadly aim, inspired strike or vital strike, and you'll be doing some pretty good dps from behind the line. At this level, it's enough damage to kill a lot of 2 and 3 hd enemies in one shot, at which point you're selecting your next target. You also have access to Cat's grace and Fox's cunning elixirs, to further increase your hit/dmg by +2.
You may want to consider taking the concentrated poisons discovery, and master alchemist feat, to sprinkle some pain on your single ranged shot every round. With some preparation, your're gonna swift action poison/move action study or vice versa, then shoot. Rinse repeat: swift action poison an arrow (con damage with a +2 DC for having concentrated it earlier), move action studied combat, standard action studied strike/focused/vital/deadly aim (any or all). Critter takes 20+ dmg. Has 2 hp left? Fails fort save vs poison. Loses d3 con (and thereby 1 hp per level, bringing his hp below 0). It's expensive, but making your own posions in vast batches with master alchemist and your +/lvl craft alchemy bonus, you'll be doing well enough on your alch checks to save a lot of money, particularly on large batches of otherwise cheap and useless poisons like greenblood oil.
You could always do the same in melee, because a swift action apply poison won't proc an AoO, but somehow I feel like melee is sketchy for an investigator - after all your elixirs are treated as spells in potion form, which means if you need to drink one in combat, it will proc an AoO. If you have infusion (to cast them before combat) and accelerated drinker) to drink as a move action instead of a standard, It helps, but you're stuck with that AoO. Anyone know how to avoid that? Other than the 5 foot step...
I assume it is a elf? That will need a exotic weapon proff or Martial weapon profs to get curved blade.
I would take str to 10 and get con and wis to 12 for the points, put all level ups in dex. And Then i would either dip inspired blade swashbuckler and take fencing grace at level 1 or take finesse, focus amd fencing grace at 1,3 and 5, with the dip you can get extra talent Quick study at level 5 when you get studied combat to begin with.
With the dip you will have +5 1d6+3 at level 1, almost what you would get from curved blade(well 2 behind on avarage but you get the point). And the parry riposte deed will allow you the occational extra attack. at level 5 you will have +10 1d6+6 with out items, extracts and mutagen. You wont be getting power attack but you will be hitting consistently and you will be doing ok damage.
ELF's get weapon familiarity with any weapon with the word elven in it...
And as an elf I am really feat starved to go twf or archery really.
I am looking for a Dex like build with as little feat usage as possible because I want to use 1-2 feats for extra talents.
Weapon familiarity is not profession it is count as Martial. And investigators dont get martial proff.
The 1 level inspired blade dip Will and your level 1 feat will be all the feats you need if you go with my suggestion from above.If you really want to save feats, just be str based and use er longspear. With str 14-16ish you Can be relevant with no feat usage and solid with just combat reflexes. Reach is not optimal for studied combat but not bad either.
ELF's get weapon familiarity with any weapon with the word elven in it...
And as an elf I am really feat starved to go twf or archery really.
I am looking for a Dex like build with as little feat usage as possible because I want to use 1-2 feats for extra talents.
Elves don't get proficiency with a curve blade. They treat it as martial, but Investigators don't have weapon proficiency with all martial weapons so you will still have to spend a feat to get proficiency with a curve blade. Also, you can't get Dex to damage with a curve blade or place the Inspired enchantment on them.
PB shot(level 1), precise shot (1), ranged study (3), focused shot (5)Unfortunately ranged study has weapon focus pre-req(and studied combat actually). Yes they really were that harsh to investigator going range(given all the other feats to get range going)
Yep, you are correct. Had a player built this way in a recent game - but looking back over the character sheet, they had weapon focus as a bonus feat. >.< yet another crazy prereq. Wonder if it's worth it to skip precise shot till 5, then focused 7 deadly aim 9. By then, you coulda taken a slayer or a ranger guide and been doing much better damage without INT or focused shot. Its a shame. Then again, I guess investigators get spells, and crazy skills, and poisons, and the inspire bonus dice (practically for free).
Well, since he's set on Curve blade, just gonna have to go that route, and take Infusion (to get your habitual potions like cat's grace/fox cunning, shield, maybe a couple of cures) cast before combat. Accelerated Drinking feat when possible. When you need to cast in combat, 5 foot step back, drink. With accel drinker, you can attack/ step / move action drink, which is about half as good an action economy as a magus' spell combat, but hey, it's something. It also takes a lot better anticipation: Need to have what spells you're gonna cast in the combat be flexible in effect, or universally applicable (cat's grace/fox cunning/heals).
Slashing grace work on an elven curve blade? Losing that dex damage if not, almost makes me think it'd be better to get a one handed version or a dueling blade, so that you can pick up slashing grace. Too bad you can't get 3 levels of swashbuckler or at least take precise strikes.
Anyway, this is all beside the point. The real strength of investigators is the skill pools and inspirations. They'll never be superior in a scrap to other combat-focused classes, obviously, but if you can just get weapon finesse and slashng grace somehow, you can at least make him a decent backup fighter, while using your other feats for extra inspirations or master alch, or skill focuses. Or that whole feat-heavy ranged chain.
Slashing grace work on an elven curve blade?
It doesn't. Slashing Grace only works on one-handed slashing weapons.
Keep in mind that an elf won't be able to have curve blade proficiency and weapon finesse until 3rd level. That is a slow build.
Slashing grace work on an elven curve blade?It doesn't. Slashing Grace only works on one-handed slashing weapons.
Yup, so, rapier, scimitar, or spend the feat to get an aldori blade or falcata or something. This is the downside of investigators, which makes sense given how much other things they're good at --- they don't get bonus feats. That said, If you're gonna try for melee, you don't need to worry about combat casting; you need to worry about attacks of opportunity from drinking or throwing pots. Might be worth it to take nimble steps just so you can 5 foot step in difficult terrain.
Ok, well I have one way of taking it ... Adopted trait tangu.
But I will have to think about that, at some point optimization just is too cheesy...
The kind of trait you get from the adopted trait is a "race trait" not a "Racial Traits" Else i would suggest taking the human "Dual Talent" on every character ever.
Oddly enough by dipping into swashbuckler I gain proficiency with the eleven curve blade .... Just to mock me!
hehe if that is still the Dream you Can dip into mutation warrior figther(for a feat and free mutagen) or verminous hunter(lille the PET and have fast healing 1 for ever with all the cheese you Can eat)
And actually I like the idea of dipping fighter mutagen warrior better. Gives me a talent, prof, fort bump, at the cost of a few skill points.
My investigator was str based, versatile human and had a first level dip in tactican figther to get great sword, medium armor, and skill focus(linguistics) so he could get oratory at level 1 and dump cha with out being emperist:)
But to Day he would have been emperist and mutation warrior:)
And actually I like the idea of dipping fighter mutagen warrior better. Gives me a talent, prof, fort bump, at the cost of a few skill points.
The mutation warrior archetype for fighter is not PFS legal.
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And actually I like the idea of dipping fighter mutagen warrior better. Gives me a talent, prof, fort bump, at the cost of a few skill points.My investigator was str based, versatile human and had a first level dip in tactican figther to get great sword, medium armor, and skill focus(linguistics) so he could get oratory at level 1 and dump cha with out being emperist:)
But to Day he would have been emperist and mutation warrior:)
I'm not sure you would have got orator at level 1. Versatile human gives up the human bonus feat. Tactician fighter loses the level 1 bonus feat. So first level feat would simply be Skill Focus.
I'm not sure you would have got orator at level 1. Versatile human gives up the human bonus feat. Tactician fighter loses the level 1 bonus feat. So first level feat would simply be Skill Focus.And actually I like the idea of dipping fighter mutagen warrior better. Gives me a talent, prof, fort bump, at the cost of a few skill points.My investigator was str based, versatile human and had a first level dip in tactican figther to get great sword, medium armor, and skill focus(linguistics) so he could get oratory at level 1 and dump cha with out being emperist:)
But to Day he would have been emperist and mutation warrior:)
That is true but nobody realized the loss of the level bonus feat at the time. And eventually i ender up playing a different character. But i would never have seen the mistake if you havent told me, just now:)