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I did not see the OP saying he was not allowed to do anything at all. Just he was not allowed to kill or harm the rogue. I am not suggesting he harm him, just take his stuff back. He knows who is doing it so just check his gear every morning and take back anything that is missing. If the rouge tries to stop him let the rogue attack first. Be completely open about it, don’t try to sneak and hide what you are doing.
He could also start warning everyone in town the rogue is a thief. Follow the rogue around and tell everyone to watch out for this guy because he steals.
Grapple him, drag him off to the nearest magic shop, and force him to pay for your replacement gear. Selling only nets you half the item's worth in GP, so if he has to buy full price replacements every time, hopefully he'll realise that he only loses by stealing from you.
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Don't mention it and wait until said rogue is in a fight and needs your help and watch him get pounded into the dirt while you pat down your pockets and pack and say ".. looking for something that would really help right now... it has to be here somewhere..." and smirk as you leave his bloody carcass to the worms.
or buy a wand of light or faerie fire and never allow him to sneak ever again :P
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or buy a wand of light or faerie fire and never allow him to sneak ever again :P
This will only work until the wand inevitably gets stolen and sold.
My group recently started a a new campaign together and so far everything is going fine, the group is awesome and the GM has not killed us all...yet.
The main problem is our skill monkey rogue.So it has finally been revealed to me that the rogue is stealing my items, wondrous items, and gold regularly and has sold it for for gp.
My first reaction was to confront the rogue in game and stop him. He supposedly does and then later keeps stealing my gear.
Normally i went to the GM to get it sorted out after the session and he doesn't care and tells me to deal with it myself.
I later asked if i could just force the rogue player to reroll by either kicking his rogue out of the group or killing him,
both of which i could do extremely well. The GM, after running the idea by him, says that i can't. I asked if i could pin and tie him up and just carry him everywhere, still the GM says no.So after looking around on wondrous items and forums i can't think of anything to stop the rogue reliably or make everyone else want to kill him.
So here i am asking this question, how do you defeat a skill monkey rogue without killing him?
Notes about situation to help-
-the rogue in question gets a +26 to all sleight of hand roles and normally takes 10 when stealing from me.
-i am a grabble based brawler and he has no ranks in escape artist
-i have 14300gp and we are in a metropolis so i can buy anything i want including wondrous items
The next time the rogue goes unconscious in combat, strip him of his gear, stabilize him, and leave him behind. You've done nothing that he hasn't done to you in this case.
If you absolutely need to, picking up Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes will allow you to Martial Flex into Ki Throw, which will let you put the rogue into some bad positions on the context of "helping him flank." You just happen to leave him prone and adjacent to monsters at the same time. If you need a fast way into Imp Trip, the easy option here is one level of Blood Conduit Bloodrager, which can pick it up as a bonus feat with no prereqs. You also get rage to help with your grapples in a pinch.
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After reading this, I have to say: Your Game Master is a sham.
When I have more time to properly outline a response, I'll come back
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Step one. Buy Elixir of sex shifting
Step 2: Lable it "Potion of Invisibility". Label and inventory all your other potions noting how a few seem to go missing.
Step 3. Keep strait face.
If the goal is to kill him indirectly, same as above except label it as "Cure Serious Wounds"
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OPTION 1 - aggressive, if your character is good aligned: grapple him and pound his head into the dirt. Nonlethal damage only. It's not going to kill the rogue, but he's using his skills against you, and your using your skills against him. Done.
OPTION 2 - passive aggressive, especially if your character is not good: (more creepy) Always hug him and tell him how great a guy he is, always be a bit too close to him. When you walk into a town, take your arm around his shoulder and make sure he smells your stinking breath with every word you say to him. The concept of personal space is lost on your character, and act as if you really like the guy. Like a mob boss asking for a minion to go for a car ride. Uncomfortably close. To add even more effect, sit beside him at the table, and live role play that (clap the player on the shoulder and high five him for real after each battle). Chances are the rogue is going to start keeping his distances... ;) (NOTE: if your DM decides to have the rogue roll Sense Motive and beats your character's bluff, tell them "oh yeah, my fighter wants to murder him" and keep acting creepily! :) )
Just steal from the rogue instead. Pick up the sleight of hand skill yourself. It's not like rogues are good a perception for anything other than traps. So you won't need the highest skill to do it.
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Just steal from the rogue instead. Pick up the sleight of hand skill yourself. It's not like rogues are good a perception for anything other than traps. So you won't need the highest skill to do it.
If no PVP is allowed - why even bother with sleight of hand? Just grab his stuff with strength/manuver checks. He's not allowed to do anything about it anyway.
Just steal from the rogue instead. Pick up the sleight of hand skill yourself. It's not like rogues are good a perception for anything other than traps. So you won't need the highest skill to do it.If no PVP is allowed - why even bother with sleight of hand? Just grab his stuff with strength/manuver checks. He's not allowed to do anything about it anyway.
That's brilliant.
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Four words: Contact Poison, Explosive Runes
"I didn't attack the Rogue, I just smeared the stuff in my bag down with contact poison and had the Wizard put Explosive Runes on everything. Its no my fault he died, I never lifted a finger."
https://31.media.tumblr.com/dce52fc22d8aa81e18da4e6ead72d80e/tumblr_inline_ n06ncvaf0X1r3si4s.jpg
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Also, on the off-chance that the rogue understands the common language, have your character simply approach him "hey, have you been taking my stuff?"
See what his answer is... depending on his answer, you may make Sense Motive checks yourself... if he's a Dex rogue who dumped Cha, there's a chance he may suck at Bluff... if he admits guilt, convene a party meeting an put forward a motion to replace him with another professional or locksmith... see how the rest of the party votes on this.
That's not PVP and very much in line with what a normal group would do. Bottom line is the situation is not acceptable both in and out of game. He must be one of those low int/wis "dumb" rogues that just can't see the value of not stealing from his own partners or friends...
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You attempted to solve it out of character, and in character. The GM gives you mixed messages telling you to fix it yourself, and then stops you from fixing it yourself.
Anything you do at this point to escalate this is going to cause more problems.
Leave the game, start a new one as GM, and invite everyone except the jerk GM and Rogue. Let them play with themselves if that's what they go for.
As far as my gaming philosophy goes, rpg games should be the wild west:You do what you want and have to deal with the consequences, especially with regard to issues like PVP, stealing from players, friendly fire, etc. Otherwise the game begins to feel like a padded room where no one can make choices, die, take risks or express themselves.
That being said your dm shares my philosophy when it comes to letting this rogue steal from you and then becomes a safety scissors dm the second you want retribution. This isn't just a matter of fairness, your dm doesn't have a coherent vision in mind of his own game mastering style.
Iredeemably pathetic. Please show your dungeon master this post. Please.
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I would just recommend the following, which I saw posted on these boards in another thread a long time ago...
When the rogue whispers to the DM and the DM tells you, "You can't find the potion you are looking for. It is gone." you just tell the DM to his face "Well, I get it back from the rogue then." and don't erase it off your character sheet. Basically, ignore it.
Anytime these two troublemakers (DM + rogue) get together to rob you of your stuff, you simply ignore it and keep playing. The DM might choose to escalate the matter, but if that's what they decide to do then you should realize you have no choice but to leave that awful group. Good luck!
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I'm in the camp of "strip him naked and steal all of his stuff". Your character knows, in-game, he's stealing from you? The others do, too? Goose/gander and all that. Take EVERYTHING he has. Sell it. When he gets more of anything, repeat.
You're the big, bad bully; not him. Be the big, bad bully. Embrace it. Love it.
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So, you don't want to stop playing with the group, and yet the GM is allowing the rogue to steal from you, the entire party is aware of it, and the GM refuses to allow you to harm the rogue. It's a no-win situation for you, yet you can't walk away from the group because it's your only gaming group.
Don't play his game.
(1) Warn him that if he keeps stealing from you, there will be consequences.
(2) When he laughs that off, do two things:
- Be sure you are nowhere near him in any subsequent combats. If he moves in to get a flank with you, just say, "No, I do not provide a flank." Let him be useless and vulnerable in combat for a while.
- Beat him senseless, take all of his stuff, sell it, and use it to buy inordinately heavy things that are useless to him. "Yes, I needed a dress Breastplate of Encumberance in case the queen needs to see me and admire my manliness." He'll steal it back, but at 1/2 value and 1/2 value again, he's lost 3/4 of his treasure.
(3) Be useless and die. Repeatedly. Take the "ultimate" passive-aggressive approach. Never buy any gear. Not even a weapon. Wander around in nothing but a loincloth. When other players complain, simply state, "If I buy anything of value, the rogue's just going to steal it anyway, so I'd prefer to have nothing at all." Insist on your share of the treasure, then donate it all to a temple of Sarenrae to help the poor.
Everyone else is spoiling your fun. Everyone. Because no one is fighting back on your behalf. If you can't quit and you can't play, the only reasonable recourse (as childish as it is) is to spoil everyone else's fun to the point they have to acknowledge your plight.
The whole situation is utter stupidity. Either the GM allows PvP and you kill the rogue, or the GM doesn't and the rogue isn't allowed to steal from you. The whole, "Oh, the rogue can steal from you but you can't retaliate" is so beyond dysfunctional I'd have a tendency to just punch the GM in the face do things disapproved of by Paizo.
And I'm a peaceable man.
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(3) Be useless and die.
And then re-roll as a Sorcerer which won't need equipment anyway, or will at least have a far easier time going without. Refuse to cast any magic on behalf of the Rogue. Spend all your share of the treasure getting permanent spells cast on yourself if you can keep it that long. Later spend it on spells like limited wish, wish and various summoning spells. If Vow of Poverty is allowed, maybe go that route as well.
Obviously other classes/builds would work here, such as Oracle or Summoner.
I'm always surprised by the number of posts on questions like these where the advice is either walk away or actively destroy the game. I imagine these people don't play with any gaming group very long.
Obviously if something is truly vexing you and ruining your fun, you should leave the game, but most problems are less than that, and the OP indicated in his initial post he is generally having fun.
There is never a good reason to actively try and destroy a game.
My advise would be to have your character deal with this like a real person would in similar circumstances. Assume that your fellow party member is important to you (similar to family or a good friend), his skills are necessary for the mission, but he is somewhat crazy, in this case a kleptomaniac. That is obviously going to be annoying, but most people wouldn't murder someone for it, and would find a way to deal with the problem. Most obvious would be to a) keep a good inventory of your stuff, and b) subject the thief to frequent searches. Assume you both care for him and need him, but you have to deal with his malady and it should work out fine.
(3) Be useless and die.And then re-roll as a Sorcerer which won't need equipment anyway, or will at least have a far easier time going without. Refuse to cast any magic on behalf of the Rogue. Spend all your share of the treasure getting permanent spells cast on yourself if you can keep it that long. Later spend it on spells like limited wish, wish and various summoning spells. If Vow of Poverty is allowed, maybe go that route as well.
Obviously other classes/builds would work here, such as Oracle or Summoner.
Or as a monk with Vow of Poverty.
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I'm always surprised by the number of posts on questions like these where the advice is either walk away or actively destroy the game. I imagine these people don't play with any gaming group very long.
It the main reason why I play PFS mostly. I have a very low tolerance for playing with dysfunctional passive-aggressive backstabbing bullshit. My gaming time is too valuable to spend it not having fun.
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I'm always surprised by the number of posts on questions like these where the advice is either walk away or actively destroy the game. I imagine these people don't play with any gaming group very long.
Obviously if something is truly vexing you and ruining your fun, you should leave the game, but most problems are less than that, and the OP indicated in his initial post he is generally having fun.
There is never a good reason to actively try and destroy a game.
I'm interested in whether you've ever had such a dysfunctional "special child" in your gaming group. One whom you can't kick out of the group for social reasons, but who won't behave unless actively policed by *all* other members of the group.
That poison member WILL eventually destroy the game -- I've watched 3 campaigns of ours derailed by a single player who -cannot- behave himself. We stopped gaming with him entirely, and now he's whining to get another game going. We're faced with ending our social relationship with him entirely, or trying yet again. And no matter what the "dump him" group thinks, friendship runs deeper than games.
So my mandate to the other players has been very simple: They will unanimously stand in a front against him, or there will be no game. And if he blows this one, his chances are permanently over.
The point of actively trying to destroy a game is not to destroy it. It is to make the other players aware of just how disruptive this player's behavior is, and to get them to join the OP in stopping it.
Alone, the OP is powerless to do anything against the combined attitudes of the GM and the rogue. The other players are disinterested in the problem, so the OP ends up frustrated and powerless.
So, short of being so disruptive/destructive to the group as a whole that the other players have to do SOMETHING, what do you suggest he do to mitigate the situation?
From personal experience I'll bet you that:
(a) He has a good inventory, and knows when things are disappearing, and
(b) the thief is only stealing stuff in town where he can monetize it before the theft is noticed.
In short, I've played with players like the rogue's and something as simple as, "I keep an inventory and search his stuff," won't accomplish anything. The rogue will (in collusion with the GM) ensure this doesn't work, and it will make him even happier with his behavior, because now he's getting away with it and the OP is playing along in character, so it must be OK.
People won't change unless you force the issue. Starting to actively inconvenience the other players is an excellent first step in getting them to acknowledge that they are NOT uninterested observers in this problem. And without involving the rest of the group in a resolution, it's unlikely one will be found.
EDIT: I guess that's my take in short: The rogue's player has decided that it's fun to tweak the OP by stealing his stuff. The GM has decided that it's fun enough to allow. The other players feel they're not being affected, so they're not going to get involved. The OP indicates he's brought the issue to the GM and the rogue's player to no avail. So the next logical step is to get the support of the other players. If he can do that face-to-face without disrupting the game, that would be the best choice. But if he can't, being disruptive is an excellent childish response to childish behavior on everyone else's part.
I'm interested in whether you've ever had such a dysfunctional "special child" in your gaming group. One whom you can't kick out of the group for social reasons, but who won't behave unless actively policed by *all* other members of the group.
I've been playing for more years than I care to admit, so yes I've had all sorts of problems, many of which I have handled poorly. I have learned a bit over the years though. That said, I certainly don't claim that I am perfect at handling every issue.
The point of actively trying to destroy a game is not to destroy it. It is to make the other players aware of just how disruptive this player's behavior is, and to get them to join the OP in stopping it.
My guess would be if you lack the social skills to explain this, assuming the issue is that great, then you lack the social skills to demonstrate it and get them on your side (although you very well might demonstrate it and get them all against you). Use your words.
I will also note that in the original post, the OP said he has 143k to spend. Obviously his character is being annoyed by the other character, but apparently not financially ruined by him. Probably both the other player and the GM regard this as mild pranking, he is playing a Tasselhof, obviously that can be annoying, but it can certainly be managed. I don't see any evidence at all that the GM is siding with the other players beyond the fact that the GM has acceptable levels of PVP (steal, probably small stuff, but you can't kill or permanently imprison the other PCs) and that the other player is exploiting this. I could be wrong on that, but there isn't evidence of it that I have seen. If so, as long as the OP keeps things to the same level, I suspect the GM will be neutral.
It is also possible that simply ignoring this might make the problem go away, but that depends on a better read of the personalities involved than I have.
However, it seems like the GM in this circumstance is operating under a double standard between the rogue and the OP's character. A good inventory of your stuff doesn't prevent it from being stolen; it just makes it easier to notice when it is gone. When the GM doesn't allow you to take any actual action to recover the items, knowing it's gone doesn't make that much difference. It would be nice to subject the thief to frequent searches, but what if he objects and won't comply? (That being the most likely response.) The character can either use violence (which the GM appears to have forbidden) or just suck it up and deal with the loss (especially since the rest of the party doesn't seem bothered by the thefts).
I don't quite see it as you do from what is described. The OP has a lot of cash on hand, so he isn't being financially crippled unless everyone else has a lot more (which seems unlikely.) Secondly, the OP floated the ideas of a) killing and b) keeping permanently tied up. That is pretty extreme, especially if the thefts are nuisance level but not really that financially significant.
I don't see any reason based on what the OP has written that the GM would prevent forcibly searching the thief on a regular basis. Obviously if this is incorrect and or the GM is personally favoring the other player the situation is different, but it simply looks to me like one player is understanding what the GMs line is and the other doesn't.
Also, I would guess that the rogue player and character are thinking of this as more a prank than PvP and the GM agree with them. That siad, I certainly would advise the other player to stop it, since it is bothering someone, but that person didn't ask for advise.
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My guess would be if you lack the social skills to explain this, assuming the issue is that great, then you lack the social skills to demonstrate it and get them on your side (although you very well might demonstrate it and get them all against you). Use your words.The point of actively trying to destroy a game is not to destroy it. It is to make the other players aware of just how disruptive this player's behavior is, and to get them to join the OP in stopping it.
You'd be surprised. I spoke to the group as a whole about my Life Oracle's lack of funds. I spoke to them individually. They all agreed it was "only fair" that since I was the healer I should pay for all healing supplies.
So I started actually buying things like armor, a handy haversack, and so forth, and therefore running out of healing.
All of a sudden, they were all about building a healing fund.
Different people respond to different stimuli.
Buy a cloak. Buy an inter-dimensional space. Put space in pocket inside cloak. Use pocket only. Put a f$%!ing zipper on the pocket if you have to.
I feel like you should be able to afford that.
If no, where is he keeping this stuff? Stop being the tank. Hold your action until the skill monkey moves. Attack his backpack. Attack his pants. Sunder his items and armor. Keep doing it. Call it a prank just as harmless as his stealing from you. Handle animal some snakes. Put them in his sleeping bag. Dirty trick sand in his face. There's a hundred "pranks" you could do back to him. This MIGHT escalate his stealing attempts if he's a f@$%ing child. In which case my plan A should cover your shit unless the GM straight meta-bullshits. In which case leaving is your only option, unfortunately.
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Next time you are in combat preferably against a really tough monster that the rogue can not solo help the rogue get a flank. Let him do sneak attack damage to get the monster's attention, and then walk away.
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Make all of your magic items magical tattoos with superior invisible ink.
No longer able to be stolen!
(No, really, talking about it first; then leaving; barring that, most of the other options already presented by others are ideal.)
One final note: if the Rogue continually sells people the wrong magical items (or cursed items that look like correct items) that he steals off of you, he will quickly find not only his buyers dry up (as he's selling them cursed items that don't do what they claim), but also make some very serious enemies.
The OP states that he has 14,300, not 143,000 gp available.I don't quite see it as you do from what is described. The OP has a lot of cash on hand, so he isn't being financially crippled unless everyone else has a lot more (which seems unlikely.) Secondly, the OP floated the ideas of a) killing and b) keeping permanently tied up. That is pretty extreme, especially if the thefts are nuisance level but not really that financially significant.However, it seems like the GM in this circumstance is operating under a double standard between the rogue and the OP's character. A good inventory of your stuff doesn't prevent it from being stolen; it just makes it easier to notice when it is gone. When the GM doesn't allow you to take any actual action to recover the items, knowing it's gone doesn't make that much difference. It would be nice to subject the thief to frequent searches, but what if he objects and won't comply? (That being the most likely response.) The character can either use violence (which the GM appears to have forbidden) or just suck it up and deal with the loss (especially since the rest of the party doesn't seem bothered by the thefts).
Oops, you are right, I misread that. Depending on level and what else he has the issue might be more serious than I thought, although that is still quite a significant chunk of cash, just not the incredibly exorbitant amount I thought it was.
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I'm always surprised by the number of posts on questions like these where the advice is either walk away or actively destroy the game. I imagine these people don't play with any gaming group very long.
My gaming groups are generally long term.
Because I don't play with a!%+@**s.
It's how I have fun. This holds for any activity or social group really. I have few friends, but they're all GOOD friends. When I get together with said friends I inevitably have a good time.
Generally, that is becaue I'm not hanging out with a~#!+*%s.
That's always seemed like common sense to me. Why would you choose to hang out with someone you hate?
But apparently it's not.
There is never a good reason to actively try and destroy a game.
It might be petty and spiteful, but as far as I'm conerned turnabout is fair play. The Rogue is a dick. The GM is a bigger dick. Be a dick back.
My advise would be to have your character deal with this like a real person would in similar circumstances. Assume that your fellow party member is important to you (similar to family or a good friend), his skills are necessary for the mission, but he is somewhat crazy, in this case a kleptomaniac. That is obviously going to be annoying, but most people wouldn't murder someone for it, and would find a way to deal with the problem. Most obvious would be to a) keep a good inventory of your stuff, and b) subject the thief to frequent searches. Assume you both care for him and need him, but you have to deal with his malady and it should work out fine.
I would rather have some useless bastard who's around for no other purpose than to be a pack mule than some dillweed who constantly steals my stuff. IRL it would earn him a punch in the face, at least, but this GM has shut down that course of action, so more convoluted means must be taken given the OPs stubborn insistence on not having fun.
Oops, you are right, I misread that. Depending on level and what else he has the issue might be more serious than I thought, although that is still quite a significant chunk of cash, just not the incredibly exorbitant amount I thought it was.
High enough that the rogue has +26 to sleight of hand, perhaps with some help from items.
Also consider that his wondrous items AND more of his actual wealth were stolen.
14,300 doesn't sound like a whole lot at whatever level he's at; just enough to prepare a trap for the rogue if necessary.
Oh, this DOES bring up an idea, actually: you can always hire another adventuring party or some hooligans to beat the devil out of the rogue for you and explicitly tell them "Don't kill him, but you can keep or sell all his stuff." It could end in an... Interesting way.
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So you can't hurt the other character, what about his family:-p
works for the mob......
I mean really what kind of GM does this, the Rogue has gotta have some dirt on him or they're serious BFF/Bro-mance buds, i mean what the hell!?!
with "friends" like those.........
I was thinking along those lines too. Just ensure that the next thing he steals from your backpack is the head of someone he loves.
Or this is one the GM might actually like. A murder weapon used to kill some important NPC.