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In every incarnation of Dungeons and Dragons, we often end up with the "Vanishing Monster Syndrome". For instance at level 1, your average bread and butter Orcs and Goblins are a legitimate antagonist. As one's level goes up characters need to face more and more of the same monster to face the same level. Eventually though, your average Orcs & Goblins cease to provide a threat to a party of adventurers. So efficiently they "Vanish" from the world as the PC's never encounter them except if they actively look for them.
Now you might say they could remain a threat by giving those creatures Character Levels. But does that really make sense? Higher level characters are supposed to be more rare, the most powerful personalities in the world. Just because the PC's are level 10, does not mean every goblin in the world now has to be level 10 characters just because the player characters are. This also gets down to Demographics. A level 1 party could in theory raid a Goblin Village and kill off a bunch of goblins as the average goblin providers a reasonable CR threat for the level. If a 10th level party attacks a similar goblin village why would every goblin now be 10th level? The answer they wouldn't.
So in effect as characters level up, certain monsters appear (To meet the CR level), while others vanish from the world completely (As they don't show up because they're WAY too easy to fight). Sometimes I miss Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay where no matter how experienced your character is, a goblin with a spear is still a legitimate threat not to be ignored.
So the question is, how does one keep the lower-class monsters viable threat without buffing them with tons of class levels?
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In every incarnation of Dungeons and Dragons, we often end up with the "Vanishing Monster Syndrome". For instance at level 1, your average bread and butter Orcs and Goblins are a legitimate antagonist. As one's level goes up characters need to face more and more of the same monster to face the same level. Eventually though, your average Orcs & Goblins cease to provide a threat to a party of adventurers. So efficiently they "Vanish" from the world as the PC's never encounter them except if they actively look for them.
Now you might say they could remain a threat by giving those creatures Character Levels. But does that really make sense? Higher level characters are supposed to be more rare, the most powerful personalities in the world. Just because the PC's are level 10, does not mean every goblin in the world now has to be level 10 characters just because the player characters are. This also gets down to Demographics. A level 1 party could in theory raid a Goblin Village and kill off a bunch of goblins as the average goblin providers a reasonable CR threat for the level. If a 10th level party attacks a similar goblin village why would every goblin now be 10th level? The answer they wouldn't.
So in effect as characters level up, certain monsters appear (To meet the CR level), while others vanish from the world completely (As they don't show up because they're WAY too easy to fight). Sometimes I miss Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay where no matter how experienced your character is, a goblin with a spear is still a legitimate threat not to be ignored.
So the question is, how does one keep the lower-class monsters viable threat without buffing them with tons of class levels?
Increase the HD of the monsters, add the minor Templates in the back of the book. This Keeps them from being the same bread and butter types of there 'poorer' Cousins. after all Different areas also breed better beasts. Evolution at work. It stands to reason a Goblin in an area where food is plentiful with the occasional person to attack might be weaker than a Mountain Goblin where food might not be so plentiful, and it stands to further reason that Goblins that are forced into service by say a Dragon likely develop to be very strong as a Dragon would not allow it's peons to be marked against it's grand power and Megalomania based tenancies, who in turn would be better than a Mountain Goblin as they become bred for combat and defense of their Draconic master.
Now they might never match the PC's or they might, your call.
But monsters with class levels also make sense a few of the physically weaker species have Oracles, sorcerers and other spontaneous Caster types.
I think class levels are the best answer here even if you don't like them. It might not make a lot of sense that the PCs gain levels and increase dramatically in power either, and it probably makes even less sense that as they get much more powerful they begin to encounter much more powerful monsters too (but generally not before then)
That said, if you're looking to make every attack in combat a little scary I guess you could use the Critical Hit Deck and use cards for everybody. We generally only use Crit cards for "boss" monsters (aka "card guys"), but if you want every orc with an axe to have a chance of chopping off a PC's head the Crit Deck will do that for you.
If you go this route you could also consider using Hero Points, which are a bit like the old Warhammer FRPG's Fate Points, to let players nullify a "lucky hit" and talk about the time when the 1st level orc almost killed the mighty PC. On the other hand, you could be totally hardcore and let the cards fall where they may. I'd find that a little nerve wracking, but every group has its own style.
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I don't mind using lower level monsters, if it makes sense in the area that they are, same for higher levels monster. It's not because they are suddenly level 10 that all the cr 10+ monsters are available and cr 7 and less are like, well f*!* it, back into hiding.
Usually when I give a lot of class levels to some races, they actually become special npcs. A level 9 barbarian orc, is not just any orc, it's at least a warlord/chieftain.
Maybe have a boss buff them with haste, good hope, aid, bless, etc.
Or play 5th Edition, with its "bounded accuracy" design elements.
Well, there is a measure of common sense to this as well. Things like goblins are intelligent. I would wager you can get a fairly decent idea of how powerful someone is in game just by looking at them.
As a goblin, pretend I see 4 humans walking near my camp. They're all carrying cheap, simple looking weapons, half bent over under heavy backpacks, and the heaviest armor you see is maybe an ill fitting dented breastplate.
Odds are those are level 1's, aka easy meat.
Now assume same goblin, same scenario, but the humans are in expertly fitted full plate with gilding, their weapons are gem studded and carved into animal motiffs. That old guy is in silk and velvet robes with glowing stones circling his head, and that one back there isn't walking, he's actually levitating a few inches off the ground and just floating along.
I'd be stupid, even for a goblin, to think these guys were anything but elite masters. No way I'd try to jump them!
If the old creatures are easy to crush, add them to or around something(s) that is not easy to crush. While it may take just one shot to kill the old creatures, that's still one attack they didn't use on the bigger stuff they're staring down. That, and it'd make sense for the weak to align themselves to those stronger than them... if those stronger are willing.
I'm also in the camp that likes occasionally having smaller things to crush. It gives the players a sense of power. A sense of how far they've come since they first started.
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I'm with the "outgrow it" crowd. At level 10 you just shouldn't be concerned about common goblins anymore. If you encounter some of them, the GM can just summarize the encounter with "you efficiently butcher all of them". The monsters haven't vanished from the world, but they don't get as much screen time.
Occasionally they'll do something interesting though. Ordinary goblins aren't interesting to L10s, but a talented war chief gathering a horde might be of importance. Sure, the PCs aren't really threatened by it, but that horde is quite scary to local villages, and so the PCs get dragged in to do something about it.
You can also work on this in advance; if you seed some rumors during the L1-3 period about celebrity goblins, it'll actually be an Event when the PCs run into those specific class-leveled goblins.
I still think back to the time when we beat one of the orc generals around level 6; we'd been hearing about them since level 2. Common orcs weren't all that scary anymore, but this guy was tough, and he had a lot of troopers with him.
For the most part if the monster is so far below the party it is not a challenge then you have a couple of options. First is to do what Ascalaphus said and just narrate over the encounter. The second is to make some unusual specimens of the race. Normal Orcs are not much of a challenge but a couple of levels of barbarian will boost them up. The last thing is to throw a large army of them at the party. While 10 Orcs may not be a challenge 200 may wear down the party. Sure you kill on in a single hit but there are so many of them. Throw in a couple of mid-level spell casters as leaders and they may be a bigger threat than you think.
I use the first option most of the time. The second option is rare but still happens. The last option is something that I would plan out as part of a campaign. This happens in books and movies all the time, but rarely in a game.
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The idea that everything the PCs meet is somehow near their level in CR is pretty foreign to me...part of the fun of high levels is roflstomping foes that were a threat back at level 3. Sometimes smashing easily through an encounter that used to be tough really hammers home how far the PCs have grown.
It's also fun for minor bad guys to have heard of the PCs and run from them.
Sure you can add class levels and such to make orcs and goblins threats to higher level parties, and that has its place. But all the low level monsters shouldn't just vanish, and not every random orc suddenly needs 8 barbarian levels just because the PCs are level 8 too.
"Treadmill" style gaming where every single foe adjusts to match the PCs level really isn't my style.
In my games the lower level monsters still exist, but unless the players feel like playing the combat out, we just assume they win and continue on.
The other way is to make the combat about more than just killing all the enemies. Consider a group of 10th level characters defending a village against a goblin raid. Even a group of goblins is no match for a 10th level character, but if groups of goblins split up and attack multiple locations at once, the PCs have meaningful choices to make as to how they're going to defend the village. It may be a foregone conclusion that the PCs will drive away the raiders, but depending on how the PCs acted there may be more or less damage to the village as a result.
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Adding class levels is the best way, as orcs are a playable race defined by their class levels. A higher level party could easily have an encounter with an elite squad of high level orc hitmen. This can also cause playing to not be complacent when encountering creatures. That lone kobold standing on the cliffside above them watching could very well be a high level archer or wizard that they should be wary of.
My campaigns have started revolving primarily around humanoids as the antagonists, so I just level up.
Even though you level up, the orc threat to the towns probably can still be a threat. But you have bigger fish to fry. How ever you meet acquaintances a long the way. You send word to them to take care of the problem. Give them a small reward.
The OP suggests a problem with adding class levels. Does this include NPC class levels? Take a kobold; a party APL 1 faces one kobold warrior 1 (CR 1/4) and laughs; they face four of them and it's an average challenge.
Take the same single kobold and add Adept 3. Now this kobold has 4 total CR of 1. Phyiscally it looks no different but now it has a bit of magic, a few more HP and slightly better chance to hit. It also has a familiar which, with a few choices on your part makes it almost a double threat for its CR.
Keep that logic going. Perhaps later in the campaign around level 5 PCs encounter kobolds with the Simple: Advanced template on top of Adept 3/Warrior 5. These kobolds ride their familiars in battle. Give them lizards with the Mauler archetype. All they are is beefy acolytes of the dragon at the end of the game. Explain their Burning Hands spells as breath weapons; give them the kobold alternate racial trait that gives them a bite attack. They don't have to be super elite well-konwn people in the campaign.
Finally the PCs make it to APL10. You throw in some kobold adept 5/warrior 7 with some tricked out stats and the Simple: Advanced template. Again with the lizard familiars but said familiars have some magic items that gives them wings and a breath weapon. Now they're dragon-riding kobolds flying around, breathing fire, shooting bows with extreme accuracy and doing crap damage. These are the uber-dragon's tooth guard meaning they are fit to clean his teeth between meals.
Not every monster needs to keep current with the PCs. Those that do can gain quite a bit from the following sources without mucking much up in your story or setting:
- Simple templates
- monster advancement
- NPC levels, specifically Adept and Warrior (3 levels of Adept and the Mauler archetype on a normal familiar gives you an animal of medium size that can stand a round of melee combat in nova fights)
- magic: items, permanent effects cast by superiors, circumstantial environmental effects affecting only them, etc.
Finally, don't forget the Voltron effect. By that I mean combining lesser monsters to make one devastating combatant. A medium skeleton bolstered with some magic items, the Simple: Advanced template and Simple: Fiendish for the defenses is bound to a sanguine alchemical ooze swarm advanced several HD into one slimy skeleton that can debuff combatants with it's attacks. Perhaps you even count it as a single monster so the party has to chew through ALL its HP before it's destroyed.
<@> <@>
As NOLA Chris mentioned, you could consider using something like the troop subtype which combines large numbers of low level foes like goblins into a single monster which can threaten higher level PCs. I used an older 3.5 version of that called mobs in a slightly customized run of The Iron Satyr and found that goblin mobs around CR8 did enough damage (maybe 4d6 or 5d6 per round?) to make mid level PCs pay some attention to them. If I ever finish up that campaign there will probably be some troops of fiendish gnolls too.
If you're really interested in having low level monsters continue to pose a threat even in one-on-one combat you might want to check out the various versions of the "P6" system, where the PCs don't advance beyond around 6th level.
I'm seeing a lot of posts come in with similar 2 options:
-Add class levels (what OP did not want to do) and
-Templates (which fundamentally change what the monster is)
An Advanced Kobold is not the Kobold the party fought, they are a fundamentally better creature.
To maintain the same version of the creature, I agree with NOLA and Devilkiller - it gives the semblance of the same creature while still making them a threat.
Alternatively, good old Tucker's Kobolds. The monsters are much weaker than the PCs, therefore, you can use them to the best of their power, no holds barred. Switch the roles, the PCs are the more powerful enemy that they must overcome. Tactics, trickery, evasiveness will make them the challenge. Yes, they will die, but the PCs will work for it. All without adding anything to the base creature.
Also higher level PC's face tougher BBEG's. These BBEG's will have better minions. If you are a CR 13 bad guy trying to hold onto Mcguffin X I dont think you will have goblins as your support team.
Also higher level PC's face tougher BBEG's. These BBEG's will have better minions. If you are a CR 13 bad guy trying to hold onto Mcguffin X I dont think you will have goblins as your support team.
Depends. Do they fight well?
Do the explode things well?Is one a decent leveled alchemist?
Fire?
More fire?
Try running the campaign as E6. Iconic monsters become easier to quash as the characters grow more powerful, but never to the point where they are no longer a threat.
Also higher level PC's face tougher BBEG's. These BBEG's will have better minions. If you are a CR 13 bad guy trying to hold onto Mcguffin X I dont think you will have goblins as your support team.Depends. Do they fight well?
Do the explode things well?
Is one a decent leveled alchemist?
Fire?
More fire?
I am not seeing any scenario where that BBEG mentioned above is depending on goblins or kobolds as they are as his main force to stop intruders. Maybe in a situation where the terrain is the enemy, and the little monsters just use it well*, but I think the OP is looking for something he can use every game that does not look contrived.
*Tucker's kobolds
Try running the campaign as E6. Iconic monsters become easier to quash as the characters grow more powerful, but never to the point where they are no longer a threat.
This works well. Another idea is to slow their progression so that minor enemies stay viable longer.
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Since we lack real rules for troop design (the current ethos I've heard is to base them off of monsters of appropriate CR for hp and the like) I always tend to make them a bowl of hp, assess their troop damage as basically like somewhere 3 to 5 times their individual component's regular weapon damage, and give them 'flavor' abilities.
The troops from Reign had what were essentially free ray attacks to represent their firearms.
I've made pirate troops that make automatic steal actions against anyone their troop damage hits.
I've made lemure troops where they had miring style auras (basically any square adjacent to them counted as difficult terrain).
A kobold troop left behind trapped squares.
For goblins I'd probably throw in something like every turn 1d6 bomb area affects go off randomly around them (and yes, they could deviate onto the troop and do 1.5 damage to it).
Make them a Troop! Our party of 7th-level adventurers took heavy damage from just one Troop of soldiers.