| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
So with all the classes that exist in the game it's getting harder and harder to find general character concepts that aren't doable under the current system. Still, I think there are certain things which have been missed.
1)A magical rogue: Basically I think we need a base class to do for the arcane trickster what the magus did for the eldritch knight. This is, in my opinion, the most fundamental and obvious of the missing classes.
2) A dedicated shifter: Sure, the druid shifts. But the druid is also a pet master and a full caster who is caught up in his nature theme. We need a transformer that covers animals as well as humanoids, monstrous humanoids, undead, abberations, dragons, etc.
3) A dedicated ecromancer: This one is probably low on our priorities list because so many classes can cover necromancy so well and because it likely pidgeonholes players into being evil (or at best neutral with the right DM/justification). Still, the dread necromancer from 3.5 was an excellent class for which we have no direct equivalent.
Thoughts?
|
I personally don't really like steam-punk much, but I can respect that other people find it appealing...so, since there are already gunslingers and some technology archetypes already, how about some technologist base classes? Perhaps a gadgeteer, who could be a 3/4 BAB, d8 class that uses firearms and gets a robotic companion? It would basically be a summoner meets gunslinger, and would definitely not be unbalanced at all.
IMO there is only class that is TRULY missing (and has been from the start)
1) D6 divine...
And before you say it... NO.... the Ecclesithurge does NOT have this covered.... no offence but a very half assed attempt IMO.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Archeologist bard is a magical rogue. Their spell list has many utility spells that further boost their ability for trickery and deceit. Instead of combat spells they have illusion and enchantment, but that actually works better. Being able to go invisible, teleport and turn gaseous makes for an almost unstoppable thief. Combine Heroism with Archeologist Luck and lingering performance and they become the ultimate skill monkey.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For a dedicated full-BAB, might I suggest the Skin-Changer from the New Paths Compendium?
In fact, the New Paths Compendium has quite a few new classes for Pathfinder and has been quite well-reviewed! It's worth checking out :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
IMO there is only class that is TRULY missing (and has been from the start)
1) D6 divine...
And before you say it... NO.... the Ecclesithurge does NOT have this covered.... no offence but a very half assed attempt IMO.
As long as 9/9 divine casters are d8, a d6 divine caster is going to be a tough sell. Here is a decent shot at it that could work with a couple of minor tweaks. Still, to get a d6 divine caster to be really attractive in the current environment, you would probably need to combine 9/9 spellcasting with rich class abilities like those of a 6/9 spellcasting d8 divine caster (that is, something new or improved every level), but less martial/melee focused -- the 3rd party Priest class that I just linked shares the Cleric's problem of being powerful but boring.
Of course, what SHOULD have been done a long time ago would have been to rebuild the Cleric on an Inquisitor-style chassis as a 6/9 or 7/9 caster (with some bits of Warpriest-style stuff thrown in), and make a 9/9 caster Priest class like a slightly tweaked version of the one linked above, and then make actual Inquisitor be a prestige class intended to be entered from the rebuilt cleric.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Archeologist bard is a magical rogue. Their spell list has many utility spells that further boost their ability for trickery and deceit. Instead of combat spells they have illusion and enchantment, but that actually works better. Being able to go invisible, teleport and turn gaseous makes for an almost unstoppable thief. Combine Heroism with Archeologist Luck and lingering performance and they become the ultimate skill monkey.
Does he get sneak attack?
Im looking for a rogue mage like that the magus is a fighter mage, so I want a combat rogue mage who can also have other areas of expertise.
But all in all we are getting close to what seems like most character classes are covered
I do like the idea of a couple more steam punk like characters to go along with the gun slinger
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Weapon Meister, martial character that has a living weapon companion that they specialize in using. Similar to Noragami/Disgaea/Soul Eater tropes.
|
|
I'm not sure there is any simple concept that isn't at least possible to emulate in some fashion, though reflavoring might be required and I know there are those that hate that (for example, it doesn't help PFS folk).
A dedicated shifter with full BAB would be nice. You can sort-of emulate a shifter with Beastmorph+Vivisectionist alchemist, but the flavor is all wrong for most shifter concepts.
Magical rogue can be done with Arcane Trickster, albeit that's a tough path, and PF has been around long enough it can afford to make base classes of stuff like this now. Especially since Paizo keeps making it abundantly clear that the support for anything PrC-related will be essentially zero.
I don't think I'd want a pacifist healer. "Healing" is kind-of a secondary role in this game and the only way to make it a primary role is to make that new class necessary, which makes it kind of an anti-option.
My top pick for new base class is a dedicated full-BAB shifter. Probably good fort and reflex, has a mechanic similar to Beastmorph or Eidolons that lets them pull in special abilities, but from a well-defined set that they pick as talents. By default it's a mix-and-match shifter capable of pulling from multiple creature types, but it would have an archetype that restricts it to one and in exchange they can also shift into forms that are fully that creature (i.e. as normal polymorph, but with possibly better stat mods due to their class features). Probably a lycanthropy archetype as well that makes them all-that-is-werewolf.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Classes I've home-brewed because there isn't one that can be done even from re-flavor:
1. A class that functions like Calculator from Final Fantasy Tactics.
2. A class that functions like Dragoons from the Final Fantasy universe (in-general).
3. A caster class who gets rid of all material/verbal components in exchange for prolonged casting times with many more somatic components.
Divine Rage-Mage (Rage Prophet ported to Base Class) - I like the name "Volvr"
Magical/Alchemical Gunslinger that casts spells through its gun better than the Spellslinger (hi, Gene Starwind!) - "Grenadier"
Rogue-Bard Hybrid (Arcane Trickster ported to Base Class) - "Scoundrel"
Alchemist-Summoner Hybrid - "Artificer"
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Classes I've home-brewed because there isn't one that can be done even from re-flavor:
1. A class that functions like Calculator from Final Fantasy Tactics.
2. A class that functions like Dragoons from the Final Fantasy universe (in-general).
3. A caster class who gets rid of all material/verbal components in exchange for prolonged casting times with many more somatic components.
I think #2 works better as an archetype of Cavalier that can do leap-charges instead of mount-charges for the same damage benefit (requiring at least 10ft of falling before impact instead of 10ft of forward movement). In fact, I made that archetype a while back so that I could play that, and it was quite nice. It also gave up Banner and maybe some other minor stuff for higher jumps and no fall damage. Kept up well enough without charging (which happened due to classic low-cieling dungeons), but when the opportunity was there the enemies were in for pain. And the jump, as it turns out, was also mildly useful for utility.
The Archeologist bard is a magical rogue. Their spell list has many utility spells that further boost their ability for trickery and deceit. Instead of combat spells they have illusion and enchantment, but that actually works better. Being able to go invisible, teleport and turn gaseous makes for an almost unstoppable thief. Combine Heroism with Archeologist Luck and lingering performance and they become the ultimate skill monkey.Does he get sneak attack?
Im looking for a rogue mage like that the magus is a fighter mage, so I want a combat rogue mage who can also have other areas of expertise.
But all in all we are getting close to what seems like most character classes are covered
I do like the idea of a couple more steam punk like characters to go along with the gun slinger
Sandman Bard.
Rogue-Bard Hybrid (Arcane Trickster ported to Base Class) - "Scoundrel"
Sandman Bard.
|
Divine Rage-Mage (Rage Prophet ported to Base Class) - I like the name "Volvr"
Skald does this well enough, but I can see the appeal.
Magical/Alchemical Gunslinger that casts spells through its gun better than the Spellslinger (hi, Gene Starwind!) - "Grenadier"
Grenadier alchemist with explosive missile does this.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Spontaneous 9/9 nature caster. We already have spontaneous wizards in the sorcerer and spontaneous clerics in the oracle...I'd like a spontaneous 9/9 that uses the druid list, with enough changes where it's a new class, and not just an archetype like the eldrich scion for the magus.
(Although even that wouldn't be too bad, honestly, but I think nature casters deserve their own counterpart, mainly because I just feel like it would make a complete "set" of spontaneous casters for the core prepared originals.)
|
|
Spontaneous 9/9 nature caster. We already have spontaneous wizards in the sorcerer and spontaneous clerics in the oracle...I'd like a spontaneous 9/9 that uses the druid list, with enough changes where it's a new class, and not just an archetype like the eldrich scion for the magus.
(Although even that wouldn't be too bad, honestly, but I think nature casters deserve their own counterpart, mainly because I just feel like it would make a complete "set" of spontaneous casters for the core prepared originals.)
Oracle with the nature, wood, or lunar mystery is close enough for this IMO. Especially with hunters having a spontaneous 6 level casting version of the druid/ranger list.
Wish Rangers were Spont casters...
Spontaneous 9/9 nature caster.
Sure an Oracle archetype wouldn't cut it for this (design it to work with the Nature Mystery, but also capable of working with other nature-themed Mysteries)?
EDIT: Poly-Ninja'd!
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
D6 Priest. All my want.
|
|
Spontaneous 9/9 nature caster. We already have spontaneous wizards in the sorcerer and spontaneous clerics in the oracle...I'd like a spontaneous 9/9 that uses the druid list, with enough changes where it's a new class, and not just an archetype like the eldrich scion for the magus.
(Although even that wouldn't be too bad, honestly, but I think nature casters deserve their own counterpart, mainly because I just feel like it would make a complete "set" of spontaneous casters for the core prepared originals.)
The New Paths Compendium has the Shaman which is exactly that!
Just sayin' :)
Rogue-Bard Hybrid (Arcane Trickster ported to Base Class) - "Scoundrel"Sandman Bard.
I've looked at the sandman, but it's not really what a Trickster-made-Base -Class should be.
That's why a full-on Hybrid might be in order, that gets Sneak Attack more often, and has more things like Ranged Legerdemain, etc.
As long as 9/9 divine casters are d8, a d6 divine caster is going to be a tough sell. Here is a decent shot at it that could work with a couple of minor tweaks. Still, to get a d6 divine caster to be really attractive in the current environment, you would probably need to combine 9/9 spellcasting with rich class abilities like those of a 6/9 spellcasting d8 divine caster (that is, something new or improved every level), but less martial/melee focused -- the 3rd party Priest class that I just linked shares the Cleric's problem of being powerful but boring.
Of course, what SHOULD have been done a long time ago would have been to rebuild the Cleric on an Inquisitor-style chassis as a 6/9 or 7/9 caster (with some bits of Warpriest-style stuff thrown in), and make a 9/9 caster Priest class like a slightly tweaked version of the one linked above, and then make actual Inquisitor be a prestige class intended to be entered from the rebuilt cleric.
I completely agree.. the Cleric really should be the Inquisitor
What we disagree on is the difficulty aspect... I think designing a decent D6 divine would be an absolute doddle.... there are several 3PP versions and 3.5 had options to do this too.
This 3PP version I think has some nice flavour http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/flaming-crab-games/priest ... although it could still do with some polishing to make it truly stand alone and memorable.
If Paizo didnt want to do a new base class (which would be a shame) they could do it via archetypes very easily.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would LOVE to see a Pathfinder version of the old 3.5 Beguiler. It was far and away my favorite class.
Aside from a d6 divine caster I have third party material covering each concept listed here so far. Quote me and I'll tell you the class and my impressions of the gameplay.
I think #2 works better as an archetype of Cavalier that can do leap-charges instead of mount-charges for the same damage benefit (requiring at least 10ft of falling before impact instead of 10ft of forward movement). In fact, I made that archetype a while back so that I could play that, and it was quite nice. It also gave up Banner and maybe some other minor stuff for higher jumps and no fall damage. Kept up well enough without charging (which happened due to classic low-cieling dungeons), but when the opportunity was there the enemies were in for pain. And the jump, as it turns out, was also mildly useful for utility.Classes I've home-brewed because there isn't one that can be done even from re-flavor:
1. A class that functions like Calculator from Final Fantasy Tactics.
2. A class that functions like Dragoons from the Final Fantasy universe (in-general).
3. A caster class who gets rid of all material/verbal components in exchange for prolonged casting times with many more somatic components.
I've actually homebrewed a Dragoon like that as well. Only really got the chance to test it once, and it needed a few tweaks, but overall it was tons of fun.
The game could really use a 20 level type of arcane trickster character. The closest things are some bard and alchemist archetypes, but they aren't *quite* the flavor that I'm looking for.
|
Hmm I would love to see Rune Casters as a viable class, specifically like the Patryn (who have the runes tattooed on their skin and the runes flare up when they cast spells) and Sartan (who must do elaborate dances to 'draw' the runes on the ground) from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's Death Gate Cycle
Aside from a d6 divine caster I have third party material covering each concept listed here so far. Quote me and I'll tell you the class and my impressions of the gameplay.please inform me of this class/archetype for making a factotum in pathfinder!!
I don't have all the details because I'm on my phone right now, I'll get more details when I get home. But as far as a jack of all trades factotum goes the first thing g that comes to mind is the Savant from kobold press' new paths compendium or the Scholar from Tripod Machine's a fistful of denarii. The scholar can accomplish the abilities of factotum as far as I've seen from a quick glance but the savant fills the flavor better. I'll take another look at the factotum when I get home and make a proper analysis
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
1/2 BAB D6 divine caster would be nice.
A Mystic Theurge option that doesn't suck until the teens.
Warmage. A spellcaster that focuses primarily on using blasting spells while remaining outside of melee combat.
I would LOVE to see a Pathfinder version of the old 3.5 Beguiler. It was far and away my favorite class.The Mesmerist in OA should be up your ally.
....Wow, I hadn't even looked as I hate Psionics, but damn, thats perfect. Thanks.
Im going to have to go with steampunk, future, and modern classes.
For regular old PF, a Merchant, a PC Noble class.
Hmm I would love to see Rune Casters as a viable class, specifically like the Patryn (who have the runes tattooed on their skin and the runes flare up when they cast spells) and Sartan (who must do elaborate dances to 'draw' the runes on the ground) from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's Death Gate Cycle
Dreamscarred Press' Cryptic sorta does this, but a more closely fitting one would be awesome.
I would very much like a class that does what prestige classes like Acolyte of the Skin, Green Star Adept, Elemental Savant, etc. did.
A transformational base class that can work for a number of character concepts. Like a person striving to become a celestial and join the Emypreal Hosts, a woman transforming herself into a construct to leave the weakness of flesh behind, or a person who wants to become a demon without having to die first or become indebted to a Demon Lord to do it.
Also, if they could (But I know they can't) a fully updated Mountebank from the Dragon Magazine compendium would be great.
A martial class with a more general spell list instead of a highly specific one.
I don't have all the details because I'm on my phone right now, I'll get more details when I get home. But as far as a jack of all trades factotum goes the first thing g that comes to mind is the Savant from kobold press' new paths compendium or the Scholar from Tripod Machine's a fistful of denarii. The scholar can accomplish the abilities of factotum as far as I've seen from a quick glance but the savant fills the flavor better. I'll take another look at the factotum when I get home and make a proper analysisAside from a d6 divine caster I have third party material covering each concept listed here so far. Quote me and I'll tell you the class and my impressions of the gameplay.please inform me of this class/archetype for making a factotum in pathfinder!!
After glancing at it again I think Savant and Scholar don't match up perfectly but effectively can do pretty much everything that the Factotum can do. As far as I can tell the Factotum is a skill monkey that that can limitedly use abilities from other classes, especially trapfinding, minor arcane magic and minor divine abilities. The Savant is the closest in terms of flavor but the Scholar has a wider range of selectable class features that feel in line with the Factotum.
I don't have much experience with the Savant but you can find it here
I have more experience with the Scholar and honestly it feels more like a classic adventuring wizard to me than the actual Wizard class. And has a lot of versatility in both function and flavor, and has more to do than just casting spells.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1)A spontaneous cha based caster with the druid spell list with animal/monster themed totems for it's bloodline/mystery.
2)A shapeshifter class, no spell casting, d10/full BA with 4+Int skill points or d8/average BA with 6+Int skill points and more special abilities.
3)An "Engineer" class with bombs, various tools/weapons/gadgets, is proficient with all simple weapons, all crossbows, all guns, and tech based weapons.
4)A "Wildling" class that is like Tarzan/jungle girl. Has d10HD/full BA, no spell casting, monk like AC but uses Cha instead of wisdom, adds Cha mod to will saves, good fort and ref saves, 6+Int skill points, and various favored terrain based abilities.
5)A non spell casting healer class that gets both lay on hands and channeling as well as other various healing and curative abilities. Gets all good saves, 4+Int skills, d8HD/average BA, and maybe a monk like AC based on cha or con mod.
6)A bloodline class that focuses on the bloodline powers so d8HD/average BA, 6th level spell casting, 4+Int skill points. Gets like 7-9 bloodline powers, more bloodline feats, etc.
7)A "Telepath" class with actual telepathy, mindreading, dream related powers, bonuses on sense motive, a lot of supernatural and spell like abilities but is not a spell caster.
I'd like to see a shapeshifter class and a scientist class who has things like evocation spells rather than just potions
Weapon Meister, martial character that has a living weapon companion that they specialize in using. Similar to Noragami/Disgaea/Soul Eater tropes.Blade Bound Magus covers this well enough.
Honestly intrigued, how?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So with all the classes that exist in the game it's getting harder and harder to find general character concepts that aren't doable under the current system. Still, I think there are certain things which have been missed.
1)A magical rogue: Basically I think we need a base class to do for the arcane trickster what the magus did for the eldritch knight. This is, in my opinion, the most fundamental and obvious of the missing classes.
Agreed. I could see this as a +3/4 BAB, 6-level spells hybrid with a spell list focused on Evocation and Illusion (like the bard focuses on Divination and Enchantment or the summoner focuses on Conjuration and Transmutation). I'd probably be OK with Sneak Attack going up 1d6 every three levels, instead of every two, as long as the class gets Ranged Legerdemain and Impromptu Sneak Attack as well.
2) A dedicated shifter: Sure, the druid shifts. But the druid is also a pet master and a full caster who is caught up in his nature theme. We need a transformer that covers animals as well as humanoids, monstrous humanoids, undead, abberations, dragons, etc.
This can be done fairly easily with a wizard specialized in the Transmutation/Shapechange school (or a brown-fur transmuter arcanist). If you want to be effective in combat, as well as just shifting shape, then take a level (or two, for the Combat Style feat) in ranger (shapeshifter and wild hunter archetypes) and go eldritch knight; eldritch knight also lets the arcanist qualify for the Multimorph arcane discovery. Alternately, a more focused (due to a smaller number of spells known and no 9th-level spells, i.e. shapechange) version can be done with a ranger 2/sorcerer (Draconic bloodline) 3/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10/sorcerer +1; +17 BAB and spell progression as a 16th-level sorcerer (8th-level spells), plus the ability to gain the Multimorph arcane discovery.
3) A dedicated [n]ecromancer: This one is probably low on our priorities list because so many classes can cover necromancy so well and because it likely pidgeonholes players into being evil (or at best neutral with the right DM/justification). Still, the dread necromancer from 3.5 was an excellent class for which we have no direct equivalent.
It's homebrew, but I did a conversion of the true necromancer PrC a while back.
A Mystic Theurge option that doesn't suck until the teens.
You mean like an elf ancient lorekeeper oracle, a Lore spirit shaman, or witch (hex channeler if you want the Channel Energy ability, as well)? If you care about "sucking" (i.e., not being as "powerful" as single-classed 9-level caster), anyway...
Warmage. A spellcaster that focuses primarily on using blasting spells while remaining outside of melee combat.
I thought that was what many people used sorcerer for... Or (blockbuster) wizard... Or arcanist, now...
I second the steam-punk class. Really I would love a book full of steam-punk archetypes but specifically for the Summoner and Alchemist. Clockwork companions and scientific gadget magic instead of alchemy would be sweet.
A western flavor monk archetype for the Monk or Brawler would be nice. Someone who could flurry with a staff and use their unarmed damage would be great.
|
|
I'd like to see a shapeshifter class and a scientist class who has things like evocation spells rather than just potions
Honestly intrigued, how?Weapon Meister, martial character that has a living weapon companion that they specialize in using. Similar to Noragami/Disgaea/Soul Eater tropes.Blade Bound Magus covers this well enough.
The Black Blade is a sentient weapon that grows with the magus as you level up. It has a separate arcane pool that it uses to activate various abilities, and at high level it feeds on those it slays.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Black Blade is a sentient weapon that grows with the magus as you level up. It has a separate arcane pool that it uses to activate various abilities, and at high level it feeds on those it slays.
But it's not just a sentient weapon that's wanted, it's a sentient weapon that can take human form or a human that can take weapon form. Black blades don't even get close.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Off the top of my head-
Full BAB, bloodrager version of the paladin, possibly with oracle esk mysteries instead of bloodlines
full 9 level spellcasting druid,
full BAB bloodrager version of the ranger, with aspects of the spont druid
full BAB prepared version of the bloodrager, more akin to the paladin and the ranger
full 9 level spontaneous version of the witch
full BAB, prepared version of the witch akin to the paladin and the ranger, see 3.5 Hexblade
full BAB, 4 level spellcasting version of the bloodrager/witch
medium 6 level spellcasting versions of the witch, both spont and prepared
full 9 level spellasting version of the bard/skald
prepared version of the bard/skald
9 level prepared version of the bard/skald
full bab 4 spell level version of the bard
full bab 4 spell version of the skald
spontaneous shaman
6 level shaman
6 level spontaneous shaman
4 level full bab shaman
4 level full bab spontaneous shaman
d6 divine caster
prepared spont caster divine style akin to the arcanist, archetypes for druid and shaman spells akin to the arcanist
6 level prepared version of the hunter
grit class based of INT
not sh*tty warpriest version of paladins for different alignments
there are plenty of mechanical niches left to fill based on the premise created by the ACG. A lot of this stuff is done by 3PP however, and I even have written up a couple.
|
|
The Black Blade is a sentient weapon that grows with the magus as you level up. It has a separate arcane pool that it uses to activate various abilities, and at high level it feeds on those it slays.But it's not just a sentient weapon that's wanted, it's a sentient weapon that can take human form or a human that can take weapon form. Black blades don't even get close.
In that case, a Raktavarna might serve. It doesn't become a human, but it is a rakhasha snake.