So my friend just got Skulls and Shackles and we normally play one on one so he will likely gamemaster me. For the game I usually play a party of four characters, with more roleplaying emphasis on one character but controlling all of them in combat unless we invite another friend over to play as we have done on occasion. At any rate, I would like to ask for help in constructing this party, as I know he doesn't like to pull any punches so the characters or at least the party overall should be well rounded and have all the bases covered. He is fairly tech savvy but he might go with books only in which case I have core and three ultimates (magic, combat, and campaign). Characters with other stuff are likely fine though, as long as it isn't third party, as we usually don't allow it in our campaigns. Any thoughts and suggestions as well as fully created characters/parties are greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!
No APG or ARG? I think you need them to be able to use stuff from the ultimates.
ARG probably isn't neccesary to use ultimate stuff, but APG has some pretty important things, as I recall.
S&S, you say? You likely want the deeper end of the alignment pool.
With the stated books I'd go for Druid/Bard(Archer)/Sorcerer/Something martial.
Alright, I talked it over with him about the books and he seems willing to allow the APG and these races from the ARG, goblin, hobgoblin (he prohibits arcane spellcasters for this race for fluff reasons), kobold, orc, ratfolk, tengu, and tiefling. As for alignment he said that because it is a pirate campaign he is banning the Paladin and the party can have either good characters or evil characters but not both, as they conflict with each other. Knowing this, would you still go with what you suggested or would the party outlook be different now?
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Alchemist (trap breaker, possibly vivisectionist, be sure to take the infusion discovery)
Bard (arcane duelist, ask the DM if your bonded item can be both a great axe and a guitar, if not just pick any good 2h)
Gnoll feral soul Oracle (life is always good, so is bones or any of the ones with an animal companion)
Sorcerer, perhaps sylvan bloodline, Magus or summoner would also work well
Really those first three could be a solid party on their own, the fourth guy could choose whatever he wanted.
This gives two and a half healers
A solid front line (that can heal itself)
A trap breaker
A skill monkey
Pleanty of party face
Arcane and divine casting, plus two partial casters everyone has something to do, and they have a variety of things to do with each round of combat
For one person controlling the party, I'd suggest things that are simpler to play so the combats don't bog down when you retroactively think of better things your characters should have done a moment ago.
Yes, alchemist and Magus are cool and nifty, but not unless you're good at using them.
Straightforward party:
Fighter or Barbarian
Oracle (better than cleric because less micromanaging due to spontaneous casting, plus can be more of a tank to hold a front line)
Sorceror (instead of wizard)
Face - bard archer, trapfinder, and skill monkey. Probably main roleplaying character.
Are these the 'best'? No, but will you have more fun with them? That mostly depend on you and your own preferences.
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Before you settle on your party composition read the essay/guide The Forge of Combat. It was written to answer this precise question.
There isn't a load of science behind this but I tend to build "dream parties" for every AP I take interest in, so I might as well share.
Barbarian (consider focusing on the harpoon, it's versatile at range and good underwater)
Sorcerer (Elemental or Aquatic bloodlines are the most obvious, but Undead also has appeal if you want some of that zombie/voodoo pirate goodness)
Rogue (best choice for the wide range of skills that you'll need to be a good sailor)
Cleric of Gozreh (or Besmara, Calistria, Cayden, anyone chaotic)
Any race is fine, though I'd suggest going for the tengu because they fit the setting very well. I like the idea of making them all at least half-human and give everyone that "child of a famous pirate" trait to stack the Infamy boost, say they're all siblings.
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If you have full control over the party, now is the time to build your dream on a theme team. Something not all that optimal, but potentially fun. Here are a few.suggestions off the top of my head.
- Gnomish Siege Crew that build, maintain, operate and enchant a great big cannon.
- Stealth commando team, each with specialties. Alchemist as the demolitions lady, Ranger as the tracker, Bard as the contract negotiator guy, And maybe a monk for a mystic angle.
- Group of Summoners who all build their Eidolons to different flavor. Sort of like Pokemon Trainers. Or maybe cultists worshiping the living shards of their shattered, incomprehensible Deep One patron.
- Elite team of Halfling Ninja, focused on infiltration, assassination and sabotage.
Wow, thanks for all the advice guys, I'll defiantly keep it in mind going forward as I make my characters. I haven't yet decided on them completely, but I'll probably have a druid and an evangelist cleric, and I might replace some optimized stuff with more pirate themed things to have fun with it. Thanks again!
Don't forget to make good use of Teamwork Feats! Used properly, teamwork provide about 2x the value of a normal feat. Use teamwork feats to enhance your overall party plan. E.g. Stealth synergy to entire party for super-stealth, etc.
Far from optimal,due to a lack of full casters/any arcane casting, but I really think it would be fun to have a 'teamwork' team - cavaliers, hunters, divine commander etc.
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The Druid and Cleric are wise choices, I'd suggest Bard as the main character or a class with teamwork feats and plenty of skills. A barbarian is a great frontliner and the perfect class that fits well into skull's and shackles, The Scout Ranger would otherwise be a good frontline bet, fitting to the setting.
Oh, I second "Hunter"!
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Far from optimal,due to a lack of full casters/any arcane casting, but I really think it would be fun to have a 'teamwork' team - cavaliers, hunters, divine commander etc.
My teamwork-team would include an arcane caster for battlefield control because ... that's just good teamwork. Not all the good Teamwork Feats are martial.
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I recommend:
Evangelist cleric
kensai who uses a scorpion whip. A good taskmaster for the group.
A master summoner- uses Summon monsters to fight and uses spells to crowd control. Eidolon is a Skillidolon. Also serves as the party face.
And a invulnerable rager barbarian or reach lore warden for the front lines.
Just for fun, because I always wanted to try this: All the main divine casters! Worshipping the same god or cause!
Inquisitor can be my skills with some melee
Paladin is front line
Oracle takes fire or something for bombardment
cleric gets heals
Just for fun, because I always wanted to try this: All the main divine casters! Worshipping the same god or cause!
I have a peculiar Heroism & Reformation Ecclesitheurge / Sohei(1) of Sarenrae build that sort of does everything. I would love to see what happened if a 4-pack of 'em descended upon the Shackles as a brotherhood of neutral-good golden-tongued warrior-monks... but you know, the WRATHFUL kind of neutral good that leans a little neutral-curious when things start to get real.
An avalanche of highly enhanced flurrying temple swords, cleric control, and fireballs, hopefully. "This is the SS Sacred Compassion. Prepare to be boarded, you pirate &$#*&."
Just for fun, because I always wanted to try this: All the main divine casters! Worshipping the same god or cause!I have a peculiar Heroism & Reformation Ecclesitheurge / Sohei(1) of Sarenrae build that sort of does everything. I would love to see what happened if a 4-pack of 'em descended upon the Shackles as a brotherhood of neutral-good golden-tongued warrior-monks... but you know, the WRATHFUL kind of neutral good that leans a little neutral-curious when things start to get real.
An avalanche of highly enhanced flurrying temple swords, cleric control, and fireballs, hopefully. "This is the SS Sacred Compassion. Prepare to be boarded, you pirate &$#*&."
This sounds amazing. We must now make this happen.
Well the idea is something like...
Dual Talent Human 16/18, 12, 12, 10, 16/18, 7; Magical Knack + Fate's Favored.
Heroism Domain Primary for Heroism and other spells in normal slots, Reformation Inquisition Secondary for absurd social powers, use Ecclesitheurge to pick up fire spells. If you actually confront a charisma skill check or ability check, Touch of Glory.
1 Toughness, +Dodge / 3 Power Attack / 5 Hurtful / 7 Cornugon Smash
Flurry a (holy symbol) temple sword, use bonus non-flurry strikes with Cornugon/Hurtful, and by the time you have Divine Power you can make up to 5 attacks per round.
Come to think of it, it's quite possible to swap out Sohei for Kata Master now and gain Opportune Parry and Riposte with temple sword, though panache pool is only 1 unless Extra Panache is taken. Still, it's more interesting than the Sohei ability and you get one chance to Parry per Day/Kill/Crit.
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"No paladin" rule could put a kibosh on that. Depends on the exact REASONING for the "no paladin" rule.
Skulls and SHackles AP tells the GM and Players that being a Pirate makes it extremely difficult to play a paladin. You're forced to loot, plunder and pillage. The DM just went ahead and said no paladins. Nothing like trying to play a pirate and having some whiney bible thumper complaining the whole time about honor, laws, and ethics.
I still have a mild obsession with an all-druid campaign, but I don't see a way they particularly synergize with Skull & Shackles.
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If you're playing all four characters then keeping things simple is a good idea. I like complex builds, but straightforward stuff can be just as good in the right combination. I'd go something like:
Switch-hitter Urban Ranger - Hammer/Scout role
Archer Bard, no archetype - Hammer/Arm/Face role
Melee divine full caster (Druid or reach Cleric/Oracle) - Hammer/Arm
Conjuration (teleportation) Wizard - Anvil/Sage role
It's close to a classic party mix. Everyone can cast a bit, most characters are simple to build and have a defined role. 2 full casters keeps the power level up, and the Ranger and Bard are far from weak. You could also play any of them as the "main" character without feeling like you miss out.
Oh wow, it's still going strong, I've never had a post go for this long before but I'm loving all the input. I haven't actually made any characters yet so it's all still up in the air but I have looked at some characters from previous games such as my master summoner and orc barbarian to see if they fit. This idea that's been floating around for an all divine party intrigues me, as it's one that I've toyed with doing in the past, and a CG band of brothers that rises to become pirate lords just sounds, well, awesome! From what I know there are nine classes with divine spells, four from core (cleric, druid, paladin, and ranger), two from the apg (inquisitor and oracle), and three from the acg (hunter, shaman, and warpriest). It might not be wholly optimized but this idea sounds like it has so much potential I want to see how far it can be taken. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to revise and expand on the op and challenge you all to create an optimized (read, well balanced and able to hold its own without pulling punches) party of four using the nine classes outlined above, bonus if you can do it without the acg classes as I'll have to ask about that. He's pretty into all the optional rules from the books (or at least he is when I'm the one GM'ing) so I shouldn't have too much problem convincing him to use the acg - most likely no third party stuff though, as described in the op. Multiple characters of the same class are allowed, so long as they all contribute to the party and uphold the party balance (e.g. all three roles from the forge of combat are present, etc). As far as the paladin goes that still might not fly just due to LG being a bit of a stretch, leaving eight other classes (five if you discount the acg) to work with. I realize this deviates from the op a bit but it's still an optimization question as I'm not sure how to replace a traditional wizard in the party with divine casters - is anyone up for the challenge?
A half-elf Ancient Elven Lorekeeper Oracle gets to cherry-pick from the Wizard spell list, and is another divine caster that can be made pretty well-rounded with one of the mysteries that lets you dump dexterity and abuse charisma. Nature or Lunar give them companions/mounts into the bargain.
The thing about a pack of flexible-role, reasonably tough, high-saves characters is that the normal strategy handbook kind of goes out the window. With something like four Ecclesitheurge Battle/Caster Clerics who can all throw a Fireball on round 1 and who all love it when enemies walk into a full-attack, or four Nature Lorekeeper Oracles who all enter a large battle with Mirror Image up throwing Scorching Rays and looking to discharge Instrument of Agony with a power attack spear to the gut, the usual strategic picture changes.
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If you want a full divine party, make sure to have an Dual Cursed Oracle on the Team as it may force any creature to reroll their d20 as an immediate action. (Missfortune Revelation). If you think about it, it should work on your allies as well when they roll low. The only limit is it's Will Save on 10+1/2levels+Cha mod and 1/day usage per enemy.
You can combine the dual cursed archetype with other archetypes (depending on DM).
Summoners are the obvious path towards victory.
Though I don't know enough to say much about inquisitors I know that they are effective skill monkeys.
Ah, thanks guys, I'll take your advice and run with it. Maybe I was a little too excited with the notion of an all divine party but I'll defiantly have a druid and a few other divine spell casters. I realize this thread keeps getting bumped up so I won't likely post on it again but I'll still look at any other advice that comes up, although you guys have given me plenty to work with - thanks again!
An Archaeologist Bard
An Evangelist Cleric
An Exploiter Wizard
An Invulnerable Rager Barbarian
Weird how they all begin with vowels. But yeah, an Archaeologist Bard can easily deal with pretty much every out-of-combat role on his own, with the Wizard helping for Knowledge skills (though Bardic Knowledge and Pageant of the Peacock can invalidate this) and the Cleric helping with Perception (Trapfinding invalidates this too). What's more, he definitely isn't useless in a fight. Really, this Bard can literally do it all.
Next up, the Evangelist Cleric, who gains the Bardic Performance that the Archaeologist looses. On top of buffing people en masse like nobody's business, the Evangelist cleric can also heal people en masse, making it one of the best in-combat support classes, and the reason it tops many people's lists. But don't forget, it's also a 9th level caster...
But nothing compared to the Exploiter Wizard! The ultimate generalist, the Exploiter Wizard is pretty much the closest thing to Schrodinger's Wizard ever, once he gets the Quick Study exploit. Add to this the ability to buff his caster level (to say nothing of any other feats that add to the same) and his great ability counter other spellcasters without any of the annoying problems of the Arcanist (like slow spell progression) and you have the recipe for God Wizard right there. Some say that an Exploiter Wizard is the closest to Tier 0. And they would be right.
Of course no party is complete without a proper meatshield, and the Invulnerable Rager Barbarian is all that and more. Highest HP for a base class (to say nothing of boosting his CON for even MORE ludicrous amounts of HP) and the ability to get some rather non-insignificant Damage Reduction makes this Barbarian the best meatshield. On top of that however, it's ludicrously easy for him to deal damage, getting pounce, come and get me, and other delicious treats to make sure he can't be ignored. But my favorite thing to do for him is to go down the Ultimate Clarity line. With Rage Cylcing it is basically True Seeing at level 6, except without the added baggage of being Divination, meaning it doesn't auto-fail against Mind Blank. So not only is he the best martial, but he can contribute on AND off the field! And if you want Combat Maneuvers, nobody does them better with Strength Surge in place!
I shudder to think of the horrors and Eldritch Abominations that could make such a team so much as bat an eye. I would be honored to be an NPC in such a group.