Okk, just discovered i've completely misunderstood my GM's words, while i was building a Scythe-Char basing it on few paizo stuff, while in truth i've got free access to all paizo stuff T_T!
Now, i don't know why i've been focusing on Scythe, but i still love the idea...i can call that "the only thing i'm sure about my char, is that he has a nice scythe sleeping on his shoulders".
Now, i've just started my "free-tour" being immediately attracted by the Warpriest.
I'm open to all suggestions, and i'll be glad if someone wants to share somes!
I'm in your hands people!
Point Buy is 20, level is still 1, Campaign is reach of wild(is only thing i know about)
With a scythe, you will be wanting to find a way to exploit that tasty x4 Crit mod. So you will be looking for auto crits. The two easiest ways i can think of to do this is via Butterfly's Sting or CdG'ing.
Butterfly's Sting:
Basically, you will be looking to specialize in two different weapons: your Scythe, and one with an 18-20 crit range. You'll make your full attacks with your 18-20 range weapon, and when you get a crit, you use Butterfly's Sting to forgo the immediate crit to make the next ally that hits that foe an auto crit. Then, you drop the 18-20 weapon, and quick draw your scythe. According to This Faq, you are your own ally.
The quickest route i can think of to get this online is by starting with 5 levels of Swashbuckler, to get early access to improved critical for your high crit weapon.
Coup de Grace:
To get this working, you need a reliable way to make your foes helpless. The easiest way to do that is via magic. A witch can slumber hex foes all day long, but frankly, that's a bit boring and overdone. How about a Heavens Oracle? Your Color spray can be effective pretty much all the way to lvl 20, and there is something satisfying about busting out a level one spell that absolutely ruins someones day when you are a higher level than level one spells have any business being cast at.
Color spray would only have a chance to stun them for 1 round at higher levels. Which isn't helpless.
Warpriest doesn't sync as well with scythe because the sacred weapon damage doesn't help you, but if you're okay with that then no problem. But Sacred Fist is great, you'd be able to flurry with your scythe at lv5 after you get channel energy at 4th.
Martials work well with scythes. Fighter, slayer, barbarian, bloodrager, paladin, ranger
Or combat 3/4 like inquisitor, bard, skald, cleric, oracle, warpriest, shaman.
All of them can use a scythe just fine if you want them to. So easiest way to help is figure out more of your character to see which fits. All of the classes have useful abilities.
What am looking for is a Char who can alternate using Scythe and cast something (preferably a Fireball) right in the face of my enemies... i'll be really happy if someone could help me definite which is the best class that fit well with both things XD!
Magus is your best option then. But you're missing out on spell combat, which is a strong option for the magus. Otherwise bloodrager, but you'd take forever to get the spells. Eldrich Knight could do it too I just realized, Get early entry into that and you'd be pretty good off.
So of those Eldrich Knight is probably the best fit.
Okk then i can take the build i was making with all-people-advices adding what to? now i've access to all paizo stuff...
Butterfly's sting works better if you can get an ally to take it while dual wielding crit fishing weapons.
Because the scythe is two-handed that just wont work well. Because you would have to drop your other weapon on the ground to pull out the scythe. Dropping your weapon on the ground is an invitation to the GM to have NPCs pick it up and run. I certainly would do it.
Otherwise, might I suggest a heavy pick instead of the scythe. You could reflavor it as a smaller one-handed scythe, a sickle. Then you wield the pick in one hand and a kukri in the other.
Of course, you can always just wield a scythe two handed and mow people down. Nothing stopping you from that. But trying to crit fish with it just isn't going to work out.
Re-flavor is out of discussion... GM will not allow it.
Now if i'm not wrong is better for me focusing on:
Trip
Crit
or both?
Well for a simple start to a Eldritch Knight Build:
Fighter 1/ Wizard 1 (Scryer Subschool)/ Eldritch Knight 10
Traits
The One that makes Perception a class skill
Magical Knack (Wizard)
Feats
1 Weapon Focus (Scythe)
FB Power Attack
WB Scribe Scroll
3 Arcane Armor Training
EKB Arcane Strike
5 Weapon Specialization (Scythe)
7 Arcane Armor Mastery
9 Improved Critical (if you don't have a keen scythe by now)
11 Combat Casting? (For Level 9 and 10 it all depends
Claxon: Unless you're a level 12 barbarian.
Uhhh...what do you mean?
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Well, if you had 2 levels of Titan Mauler and/or Gloves of Storing, you could attack with a keen scimitar in one hand while the scythe is in the other, and any time there is a crit simply attack with the scythe for your next hit instead of the scimitar (either by one-handing it via Titan Mauler or by storing the scimitar as a free action, regripping the scythe as a free action, then attacking with it). This doesn't need to be TWFing, but it does consume both hands without granting THFing damage, which is a definite flaw.
EDIT: Actually, this wouldn't be a bad TWFing build if you replace scythe with pick and scimitar with kukri. Make Kukri be the off-hand, but attack with it first so that it's Kukri->Scythe->Kukri->Scythe (for example). Combine that with a flat damage class like Cavalier and it could hit quite hard.
Thanks for advice... you forgot a Feat...the Human extra feat.
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Claxon: Unless you're a level 12 barbarian.Uhhh...what do you mean?
I'm guessing the Mighty Swing rage power. It only allows an auto-confirm though. You still need to threaten normally.
Np missed the human race, so I went with a generic build. For the feat its easy you can pick up combat casting earlier if you want to use close range or touch spells or Toughness is not a bad idea since you have to spread you stats a bit thinner than most.
Scythe provide me the trip tree...should i consider it as a viable option?
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Scythe provide me the trip tree...should i consider it as a viable option?
If you are going to be playing an urban campaign where the opponents are mostly humanoid medium sized or smaller non-flyers, it's fine. If you are going to be fighting standard monsters that are large with many legs and fly, not so much.
assuming to have 4k gp, where should i invest 'em?
mithral brestplate?
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Scythe provide me the trip tree...should i consider it as a viable option?
It would be okay at early level, but unless playing a specifically humanoid-focused campaign you will find it less and less useful the higher you get in level since CMDs go through the roof at higher levels for most creatures, presuming you can trip them at all (doesn't work if they are serpentine or have flight).
I dont know so much about the campaign... GM let us know that's a wild AP.. i could think of Serpent Skull, Kingmaker...else?
any weapon can be used with tripping.
My view on tripping is that it takes a lot to be good with, and has problems later.
To trip you'd need pretty much need:
Int 13 or a level of brawler
combat expertise
improved trip
greater trip
combat reflexes
fury's fall (assuming you have a good enough dex to make it worth it.)
this comes online lv7 which is when you trip them, making them provoke so you can hit them, and then hit them again when they stand up. also lowering their AC for your iterative attack.
Before lv6 tripping isn't to much since everyone still gets 1 attack. You skip yours to trip and get it back when they stand up. Then they stand up, 5ft into you if needed and then do their attack.
Also you can't target anything 2 sizes bigger than you, and multiple legs makes it harder, and flying completely makes it useless.
Abbysal primalist bloodrager is my suggestion. You get to be a melee monster and you will eventually get fireballs. After Reading your different threads over tha last days i think you want a character that is straigth forward powerfull and fun. And a bloodrager that can become big and stronger than any other character in the game( or close to any way) have brutal power and even some spells fit that recipe.
Human. Dual talentet(+2 on 2 stats) str 16+2, dex 14, con 14+2, int 7, wis and cha 12. Is not a bad start. Power attack at 1 iron will at 3. Combat reflexes at 5, Toughness at 6 and off you go. At 8 you get supestisious and reckless abandon. And at 12 you get come and get me and strength surge. This is a fast fun and powerfull character from level 1 and all the way IMOP.
Lets talk about numbers:
STATS
STR-18
DEX-12
CON-12
INT-16
WIS-10
CHA-7
TRAITS
Magical Knack (+2Caster LV)
Valashmai Veteran (+1 and Class Skill Perception, +1 Survival on jungle)
EQUIPMENT
-Scythe
-What about Ranged?
-Breastplate
FEATS
1-Weapon Focus[Scythe]
1F-Power Attack
1H-Combat Casting? Improved Initiative? What instead?
2W-Scribe Scrolls
3-Arcane Armor Training
4EK-Arcane Strike
5-Quicken Spell
5EK-Weapon Specialization (Scythe)
7-Arcane Armor Mastery
9-Improved Critical (if i don't have a keen scythe by now)
9EK-What here?
11-Mistery
I wouldn't worry about feats that are levels away. You can worry about those as they get closer. For ranged, I'd suggest a ranged touch spell, your dex isn't really high enough to give much of a bonus to hit. But a bow is never a bad choice if you want the option to attack with it.
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Don't take Arcane Armor Training. Ever. Either your class has the ability to cast in armor, or you can get a spell-based armor substitute (possibly both). It is, at this point, a trap feat.
If you want to play an armored caster with a two-hander, I would go with a divine caster. Warpriest is probably the best option. If you select Scythe as the focus weapon at 1st level not only do you get Weapon Focus, but you get to use all the fancy Warpriest features with Scythe even if that is not your deity's favored weapon. They can also take the fighter feats and do a swift-action divine favor or divine power using Fervor.
except that divine casters are kinda really lacking on the blasting front, which he said he wants as an options. Oracle can kinda get around this by getting some attack spells with their mystery.
and if you have nothing better to use your swift actions for besides arcane armor training, then it's not the worst of options.
There are some differences between Warpriest and EK, here the most relevant to me:
1) Warpriest doesn't cast Fireball on enemies' faces
2) EK get a Full BAB progression (except for wiz level)
About Arcane Armor Training i've not understand what u mean by "spell-based armor substitute"...
Using mage armor, it gives you a +4 armor bonus, so it's like wearing chain shirt with no max dex or ACP or Spell failure. Shield spell gives you a +4 shield bonus, so combined that's +8 AC, almost like wearing full-plate for a fight.
Mirror image gives you a chance to not take damage, which is what armor also does.
blur gives you a miss chance as well, which is what armor does.
so you can combine these to get a good chance to negate damage without wearing any armor.
With them though they are duration based so they aren't on all the time. If that's not a problem then they are good choices.
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There are some differences between Warpriest and EK, here the most relevant to me:
1) Warpriest doesn't cast Fireball on enemies' faces
2) EK get a Full BAB progression (except for wiz level)About Arcane Armor Training i've not understand what u mean by "spell-based armor substitute"...
Armor Substitute: Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, Shield (the spell), blur, displacement, greater invisibility,etc. There are many layers of defenses that a wizard can put up that either overlap with armor or make armor a lot less useful. At best the armor training feats might nab you an extra couple AC, but again, AC isn't your main defense as a caster.
Also, sadly, blasting is.. not good. If you really want to do it, you HAVE to be dedicated to being a caster, and even then it's only okay.
It currently sounds to me like you're stretching your concept too thin and want to do a bit of everything. This is not the way of things in Pathfinder, however. The system rewards focusing on one shtick for offense, and tends to punish mixed approaches.
(PS: Warpriest does get Flame Strike. It's not much, and it comes late, but it's something. Lacking that, Oracle of Fire can blast somewhat and can do so early, but won't be so good with the scythe.)
So all of those are lots of spells and prepping for a fight. Armor is always on. And if he's a fighter with spells then he does some blasts at range, maybe a buff, and then go to town fighting.
Now I just remembered the actual better way to do this in armor though. Still spell and a trait that lets you reduce the cost of metamagic. Wayang spellhunter or metamagic master traits reduce the cost, making it so you can prepare still versions of spells in their normal slot. And still spells aren't effected by spell failure of armor.
I just don't see why i may focus on only one thing of the 2 i want to do... if you're asking this: yes, i want to do both badly instead doing only one.
So you're suggesting to go No-armored? relying only on spell for AC?
I don't think i'm moving away from my Scythe, (also because i've really short amount of time right now to decide) being the biggest threath to most builds all day long xD!
Race should be human (for campaign purposes, unknown to me) so no Scarred Witch Doctor am sorry :(
adamantine haramaki... why?
Take the metamagic master trait and still spell and wear armor. If you need take the feat additional traits to get the trait. It's two feats instead of two feats, but it's WAY better to do the same thing. Cast spells in armor.
Haramaki has no spell failure, and is still armor, so you can enhance it.
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I just don't see why i may focus on only one thing of the 2 i want to do... if you're asking this: yes, i want to do both badly instead doing only one.
So you're suggesting to go No-armored? relying only on spell for AC?
The reason is that if you attempt to go with two opposite damage-dealing approaches at once then you're going to find both falling behind what everyone else can do. There is a lot of support for casters also doing martial stuff, but all of that assumes they use their spells solely as support/buffing, not for blasting. The exception is Magus, but that doesn't work with a Scythe unless you take a 2-level dip into Titan Mauler, which probably wouldn't be worth it.
If you want to do blasting thing at all, then my advice is not to invest in it. Have a couple spells known, maybe prep a couple, but take no feats for it and don't bother making it better. The only case you can make it good without focusing solely on it is for blasting lots of weak guys, in which case you don't need to focus on it for it to be helpful.
Even then, however, Eldritch Knight is not the right class to approach this. It's main draw is full BAB + mostly-there spell progression, but its other abilities are largely crap and its capstone is almost useless with a scythe since if you crit then the target is likely already dead.
Best bet is to go with Oracle of Flame and use spells like Divine Favor and Divine Power to make up the BAB gap, plus Greater Magic Weapon keeps your weapon costs down. Perhaps take a 3-level dip into Weapon Master Fighter for weapon training (which, combined with Gloves of Dueling, gets amped up to a +3). Oracle of Flame gets spells like burning hands, fireball, wall of fire, flame strike, and fire storm. They even get one firestorm-like ability as an Su (which means no spell resistance).
Cleric [Theologian] with the fire domain can be used in place of Oracle with similar effectiveness. Fewer fancy Su/Ex abilities, but more flexibility in spell preparation and earlier spell access.
A cleric/oracle 8 + fighter 3 build would have access to fireball and flame strike, while also having weapon training and a +9 BAB (only 2 points lost at that point). They can make up that BAB loss with Divine Favor which, if they have Magical Knack, would give a +3 luck bonus to attack and damage with a first level spell slot.
Claxon: Boar's Charge, Butterfly's Sting, and Greater Beast Totem. Enough said. Bonus points if you go Mounted Fury and take Greater Ferocious Mount.
Trying to use Butterfly's Sting and Two-Weapon Fighting can be awkward, because you don't get to choose the order of your attacks as you go, unlike with flurry or natural weapons
Boar's charge requires you to be were-kin. And you have to wait 12 levels for the pay out. I mean, I guess it's okay, but waiting 12 levels for your combat style to be useful...doesn't seem any good to me. Unless you can start at 12th level.
Take the metamagic master trait and still spell and wear armor. If you need take the feat additional traits to get the trait. It's two feats instead of two feats, but it's WAY better to do the same thing. Cast spells in armor.
the trait only works for one spell.
does bracers of armors and magic armor bonuses stack?
the metamagic master trait only work for 3th level spell
nice deal boring7...seems your solution about SWD will work very great, or almost will make the GM letting me use the Half-Orc ;)
About the build, could we build a sample so i can fastly copy it on my sheet?
little problem here: Witch is not proficient with armor, and she will not become :S EK doesn't give it
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little problem here: Witch is not proficient with armor, and she will not become :S EK doesn't give it
When the ACP is 0 you don't need proficiency; the penalty for non-proficiency is based on ACP, so with a -0 there is no penalty.
EDIT: Besides which, you need "all martial" profiency to go into EK, and all classes that grant that also grant armor proficiencies. You need at least a 1-level dip into something like Fighter.
Color spray would only have a chance to stun them for 1 round at higher levels. Which isn't helpless.
That's why I suggest Heavens Oracle, for the Awesome Display Revelation:
Awesome Display (Su): Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).
Now, when you are high level and have a Ridiculous Cha Mod (which as an oracle, you'll want), you can still drop fools with color spray. And even if it doesn't hold up in super high level play, at 8th level (assuming 24 or so CHA, for a +7 mod) you'll still be able to hit 9 HD creatures as though they were 2 HD. Obviously this will be more effective if your GM is more prone to throw many smaller monsters at you instead of one big monster.
If you want some blasting as well, go with the blackened curse, and put the trait Magical lineage or Meta magic master on Burning Hands or Scorching Ray. The -4 (eventually -2) on weapon attack rolls won't matter too much since you don't need to make attack rolls with a CdG, and as a primary caster, you'll usually have better things to do than swing at a standing foe.
I recommend Bloodrager, really. If you want to use your scythe and blast with spells, it's your best bet. While you won't get a big giant fireball for a good while, you can do some really crazy stuff with the bloodlines (turning into a dragon, getting crazy reach, gaining elemental attacks, just to name a few!)