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I have 4 questions about true strike magic items.
1. True strike does not have a duration, does that not mean that it's impossible to create a continuously effect item with true strike.
2. Could you create it using the command word effect?
3. How long does i take to speak a command word (1 standart action if i remember correctly)
4. Would the price of a true strike command word item not be 5400?
( 1 level * 3rd level caster (craft feat requires 3rd level) * 1800)
Thanks in advance
They stated a Continuous True Strike weapon in 3.5 edition. It cost 200,000 gp, if I recall correctly.
No sane GM would allow one for 5400, though it would actually be 1800, because you don't have to match the caster level for the feat, just to be able to cast it.
You only look at that table as a last resort. You first price it by similar items, which would be far, far, far more than you propose.
400,000 actually. This is one of those items that can be abused very easily.
They stated a Continuous True Strike weapon in 3.5 edition. It cost 200,000 gp, if I recall correctly.
No sane GM would allow one for 5400, though it would actually be 1800, because you don't have to match the caster level for the feat, just to be able to cast it.
You only look at that table as a last resort. You first price it by similar items, which would be far, far, far more than you propose.
But a continuously True Strike ring is not possible to create, is it? It has to have an duration to make it into an continuous effect.
The price is determined by the casters level, as a caster would have to be at least 3rd level to get the feat, the price should be at least 1*3*1800. You cannot, in any way, have a 1st level caster creating wondrous items.
And as we've used the magic pricing table earlier in our campaign, i'll go with the listed pricing there.
400,000 actually. This is one of those items that can be abused very easily.They stated a Continuous True Strike weapon in 3.5 edition. It cost 200,000 gp, if I recall correctly.
No sane GM would allow one for 5400, though it would actually be 1800, because you don't have to match the caster level for the feat, just to be able to cast it.
You only look at that table as a last resort. You first price it by similar items, which would be far, far, far more than you propose.
I'm not that interested in the continuously true strike ability, as I don't even think it's possible in pathfinder.
- If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. -
If a spell doesn't have a duration, you can't make it continuous, right?
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1) don't make them
2) its cheasy
3) don't make them because it's cheasy
4) see point 1.
They stated a Continuous True Strike weapon in 3.5 edition. It cost 200,000 gp, if I recall correctly.
No sane GM would allow one for 5400, though it would actually be 1800, because you don't have to match the caster level for the feat, just to be able to cast it.
You only look at that table as a last resort. You first price it by similar items, which would be far, far, far more than you propose.
But a continuously True Strike ring is not possible to create, is it? It has to have an duration to make it into an continuous effect.
The price is determined by the casters level, as a caster would have to be at least 3rd level to get the feat, the price should be at least 1*3*1800. You cannot, in any way, have a 1st level caster creating wondrous items.
And as we've used the magic pricing table earlier in our campaign, i'll go with the listed pricing there.
Don't.
It will completely wreck your entire campaign. See Big Norse Wolf's post, above.
1) don't make them
2) its cheasy
3) don't make them because it's cheasy
4) see point 1.
I dosen't matter if it's cheasy. Though you are implying that it is possible ;)
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Ultimate Campaign has the following example suggesting that a continuous true strike item would have a cost of around 200,000 gp.
The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" descriptions.
Example: Rob's cleric wants to create a heavy mace with a continuous true strike ability, granting its wielder a +20 insight bonus on attack rolls. The formula for a continuous spell effect is spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp, for a total of 2,000 gp (spell level 1, caster level 1). Jessica, the GM, points out that a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon costs 50,000 gp, and the +20 bonus from true strike is much better than the +5 bonus from standard weapon enhancement, and suggests a price of 200,000 gp for the mace. Rob agrees that using the formula in this way is unreasonable and decides to craft a +1 heavy mace using the standard weapon pricing rules instead.
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I dosen't matter if it's cheasy. Though you are implying that it is possible ;)
The magic item creation rules comes with warnings that you need to watch out for exactly this sort of thing and say no to it, so the watchdog saying no to it is the system working as intneded
Just use a wand. Find a way to get the spell on your character--multiclass, be a Half Elf with Arcane Training. Or maybe UMD it? But a wand's the way to go if you want lots of True Strike, in my opinion.
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The duration is "on the next attack roll" iirc.
Most players want a forever +20 to their next attack roll.
Most DMs don't want a player with a forever +20 to their next attack roll.
Every character doesn't want an angry ogre with a forever +20 on it's next attack roll.
Remember that magic exists for all, not just the players.
So about that wand...[edit] Personal effect, I think, so potion/scroll only?
I dosen't matter if it's cheasy. Though you are implying that it is possible ;)1) don't make them
2) its cheasy
3) don't make them because it's cheasy
4) see point 1.
The rule for any custom magic item.
"Ask your GM"
The pricing guidelines are just that, guidelines. One of those guidelines; compare to the price of similar items.
The duration is "on the next attack roll" iirc.
Most players want a forever +20 to their next attack roll.
Most DMs don't want a player with a forever +20 to their next attack roll.
Every character doesn't want an angry ogre with a forever +20 on it's next attack roll.
Remember that magic exists for all, not just the players.
So about that wand...[edit] Personal effect, I think, so potion/scroll only?
Ioun stone.
The guidelines specifically tell you to use the table first, then spell level x caster level x 1800. Since weapon bonus is one the table you don't use the formula. Bonus squared x 1000 (would be 2000 if it added to damage too.)
So the correct answer is 20x20x1000 gp = 400,000gp.
Just gonna re-post this coz it seems to answer the question pretty well.
Ultimate Campaign has the following example suggesting that a continuous true strike item would have a cost of around 200,000 gp.
The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" descriptions.
Example: Rob's cleric wants to create a heavy mace with a continuous true strike ability, granting its wielder a +20 insight bonus on attack rolls. The formula for a continuous spell effect is spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp, for a total of 2,000 gp (spell level 1, caster level 1). Jessica, the GM, points out that a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon costs 50,000 gp, and the +20 bonus from true strike is much better than the +5 bonus from standard weapon enhancement, and suggests a price of 200,000 gp forthe mace. Rob agrees that using the formula in this way is unreasonable and decides to craft a +1 heavy mace using the standard weapon pricing rules instead.
(And just to be thorough: TRUE STRIKE)
Now let's see how that interacts with the actual questions:
I have 4 questions about true strike magic items.
1. True strike does not have a duration, does that not mean that it's impossible to create a continuously effect item with true strike.
2. Could you create it using the command word effect?
3. How long does i take to speak a command word (1 standart action if i remember correctly)
4. Would the price of a true strike command word item not be 5400?
( 1 level * 3rd level caster (craft feat requires 3rd level) * 1800)
Thanks in advance
1. Apparently it's totally possible to build this item.
2. I can't see why you couldn't build it as a command word. This would probably be a lot less unbalanced than a continuous effect. It would take 1 standard action to activate, and then would only affect 1 attack. That means you'd likely be giving up a full round attack in order to get a +20 to 1 attack the following round. Really this isn't any better than a wand, so it'd probably be a lot cheaper.
3. Command words are a Standard Action unless otherwise stated.
4. 5400 sounds fine for a command word item. Again, since it uses your standard action it's no more powerful than a wand. Since a wand of True Strike costs 750gp, you'd have to use this item 360 times before it becomes cheaper than just buying wands.
If I've missed/misinterpreted anything there, let me know.
Just to add my own thoughts to this:
The command word item idea would probably cost less if I were the GM, just because it really doesn't seem worth that much.
The continuous effect item idea is massively OP. If you craft this item expect it to cost a lot (I'd make it more like 500 000) and expect it to be stolen/sundered/whatever whenever the plot calls for it.
Starting an Arms-race against the GM doesn't work.
To expand on this, command word is always going to be a standard action unless you base the magic item on quickened True Strike. 5th level spell, CL 9, a reasonable-sound 81K.
2. Command word at-will True Strike? Yes, that's possible.3. Command word is always a standard action unless it says otherwise.
A quickened true strike every round is still a lot more manageable than infinite true strike. It does limit you to only your first attack and it eats up your swift action constantly (which very many martial characters have as a heavy cost). So this actually sounds fair, even in comparison to the 200k 'always on on all your attacks forever' example.
There are no rules saying "item X can't be created". No item has to act exactly like the spell that is used in its creation. You can come up with the effect, and then decide with spell applies to create the item.
The GM is there to stop items that should not be made.
1. True strike does not have a duration, does that not mean that it's impossible to create a continuously effect item with true strike.
Yes, but use-activated would work just as well. That being said there are no crafting rules, only guidelines. The GM is supposed to make sure only reasonable items are created and others have pointed out an use-activated true strike item would cost way more than the table suggests.
2. Could you create it using the command word effect?
If you GM is fine with it (and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't): sure.
3. How long does i take to speak a command word (1 standart action if i remember correctly)
Correct.
4. Would the price of a true strike command word item not be 5400?
( 1 level * 3rd level caster (craft feat requires 3rd level) * 1800)
Actually you can reduce your caster level for crafting purposes. As true strike does not scale with level you would be well-adviced to create it at caster level 1, which reduces the price to 1800.
The Cyclops Helm would be what I would go with. Immediate action, auto hit and threaten a crit or auto save once per day. Since head slot isn't one of the major slots, you could just buy a bunch of these and have the ability available once per combat assuming you have the gold available.
I've never tried this tactic so attempt at your own risk. It could suck the fun out of game and/or provoke GM wrath.
Those things are nice and cheap if you craft them yourself. I like to combine multiple cyclops helms into a single helm. That way I get multiple uses per day from a single item, and don't have to carry a lot of excess weight or switch them around all the time (which is silly, and not the least bit heroic). It costs a little more, but is more than worth it to me.
The game developers themselves set a precedent of doing this very thing with the gauntlets of the weaponmaster. They are basically just a bunch of gloves of storing rolled together into one item.
A quickened true strike every round is still a lot more manageable than infinite true strike. It does limit you to only your first attack and it eats up your swift action constantly (which very many martial characters have as a heavy cost). So this actually sounds fair, even in comparison to the 200k 'always on on all your attacks forever' example.To expand on this, command word is always going to be a standard action unless you base the magic item on quickened True Strike. 5th level spell, CL 9, a reasonable-sound 81K.
2. Command word at-will True Strike? Yes, that's possible.3. Command word is always a standard action unless it says otherwise.
If you allow such a thing, it would be whichever attack you choose - I think you can do a swift action between attacks. So unless there's a rider you want to apply at the beginning, you'd probably be best-served putting it on your last attack since it'll probably still hit with the true strike.
Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.
So you are saying that I can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) to cast true strike, and then trade it for a Cloak of Resistance? Where is that rule written?
He's saying you can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard(Divination) and then switch to another Cloak of the Hedge Wizard(Divination). The "general wisdom" he mentions for 1/day items is also something I've never heard before. In fact, before the unreasonable nerf to Quick Runner's Shirts/Martials without Pounce it was common to see people suggesting you get multiple QRSs.
Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.So you are saying that I can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) to cast true strike, and then trade it for a Cloak of Resistance? Where is that rule written?
He's saying you can't have a closet full of cloaks of the hedgewizard.
He's saying you can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard(Divination) and then switch to another Cloak of the Hedge Wizard(Divination). The "general wisdom" he mentions for 1/day items is also something I've never heard before. In fact, before the unreasonable nerf to Quick Runner's Shirts/Martials without Pounce it was common to see people suggesting you get multiple QRSs.
That was very unreasonable, and a little silly , hence the nerf.
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Changing shirts? Silly?
No wonder everyone makes fun of TRPG gamers' lack of hygiene.
He's saying you can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard(Divination) and then switch to another Cloak of the Hedge Wizard(Divination). The "general wisdom" he mentions for 1/day items is also something I've never heard before. In fact, before the unreasonable nerf to Quick Runner's Shirts/Martials without Pounce it was common to see people suggesting you get multiple QRSs.That was very unreasonable, and a little silly , hence the nerf.
Yes. Let Longbow Fighters and Beast Totem Barbarians reign supreme the great Kingdom of Viable-Without-Jumping-Through-Hoops-To-Be-Mediocre.
Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.
That's a horrible rule, and I would caution using it.
Using this wisdom a 1/day true strike (already balanced by needing a slot (and thus action economy to be wearing it or put it on or pull it out) and a standard to use it (same as the spell) would be worthless if you couldn't take it off, in lieu of a wand.
True strike in general is only good for 'I really need to hit this attack' or if you can get it quickened. Giving up a standard is already a high price, especially considering that most melee focused characters will hit with a standard attack anyway.
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They stated a Continuous True Strike weapon in 3.5 edition. It cost 200,000 gp, if I recall correctly.
No sane GM would allow one for 5400, though it would actually be 1800, because you don't have to match the caster level for the feat, just to be able to cast it.
You only look at that table as a last resort. You first price it by similar items, which would be far, far, far more than you propose.
But a continuously True Strike ring is not possible to create, is it? It has to have an duration to make it into an continuous effect.
What is possible to create is ultimately defined by your DM, not the rulebook.
No sane DM would allow this.
Somebody could try to make it, and heck, even make it Intelligent so that you could have it activate whenever you want, and if it's at-will usage, it's basically a 1/round +20 to a single attack roll.
Of course, not only is that imbalanced, that's impossible, since it's a Personal spell, which only applies to the creature casting it (the item), and so the item has to make the attack, and not the wielder, since it's the item that's being affected by the spell, and not the wielder.
I mean, let's face it; even if players want to make it work, there are several ways for the GMs to have the mechanics fail upon themselves, and the players would then realize it's a fruitless endeavor to try and make something as imbalanced as that.
So yeah, as a GM, I'd allow it. But I'd explain why what they're trying to do won't work using the rules; fighting fire with fire and all that.
True strike in general is only good for 'I really need to hit this attack' or if you can get it quickened. Giving up a standard is already a high price, especially considering that most melee focused characters will hit with a standard attack anyway.
If the item is at will the character will use it every time they open a door.
Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.So you are saying that I can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) to cast true strike, and then trade it for a Cloak of Resistance? Where is that rule written?
1/day items require 24 hours of attunement before they can be used. So if you do that switch, you won't be able to use the Hedge cloak's power until you wear it for a full 24 hours after you put it back on.
1/day items require 24 hours of attunement before they can be used. So if you do that switch, you won't be able to use the Hedge cloak's power until you wear it for a full 24 hours after you put it back on.Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.So you are saying that I can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) to cast true strike, and then trade it for a Cloak of Resistance? Where is that rule written?
This is not a rule.
This is not a rule.1/day items require 24 hours of attunement before they can be used. So if you do that switch, you won't be able to use the Hedge cloak's power until you wear it for a full 24 hours after you put it back on.Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.So you are saying that I can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) to cast true strike, and then trade it for a Cloak of Resistance? Where is that rule written?
It is on my table. Paizo made it a convention for 1/use items specifically to bar shennningans such as passing them around or carrying a coat rack of cloaks and shirts. And it's pretty much the rule for PFS on items of this nature that the campaign hasn't simply banned out of existence.
It's a good convention, so I've made it universal in campaigns I run.
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This is not a rule.1/day items require 24 hours of attunement before they can be used. So if you do that switch, you won't be able to use the Hedge cloak's power until you wear it for a full 24 hours after you put it back on.Also general wisdom on 1/day items is that it should take up the slot and you cAn not swap it out to use the 1/day.So you are saying that I can't use a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) to cast true strike, and then trade it for a Cloak of Resistance? Where is that rule written?It is on my table. Paizo made it a convention for 1/use items specifically to bar shennningans such as passing them around or carrying a coat rack of cloaks and shirts. And it's pretty much the rule for PFS on items of this nature that the campaign hasn't simply banned out of existence.
It's a good convention, so I've made it universal in campaigns I run.
That's fine as a house rule. We are in the rules forum however and it is in no way a rule. I could be wrong but I do believe that even in PFS there is nothing preventing you from purchasing multiples of a x/day item and swapping them when they run out. Unless of course the item such as post errata Swift runners shirt has text to prevent it. Using the cloak of the hedge wizard as an example could you give me a quote or link that prevents this, please?
The "ring of continuous true strike" is the sort of GM that no GM would ever allow you to just go to the local ringcrafter and commission; it would break the game immediately.
This is the kind of effect that you might put on an item with a truly nasty curse in order to tempt the PCs into using it from time to time however...