Goblin Squad Member
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I'm talking here coal from trash heaps - not coal from rocks.
Changes so far - some yew / pine boundaries seem to have moved. Some coal in trash heaps has been replaced by iron (area 2 north of EL - there never was any coal South of that line - at least not close).
Moonstone appeared in trash heaps - before the only reliable place I knew was in Golgothan territory.
Lodestone seems to have disappeared - instead some trash heaps give more gems.
Some oak in areas where there was maple before. Actually I haven't found any maple yet but have only checked two hexes.
Tansy leaves are at approx 20-40% of what you got before. They are not rare but they are not the only thing you find.
Some pine in areas where there was yew.
On yeah - Lodestone seems to be replaced by some tier 2 pelts which are now much more common. Did have 19 when I ran into an Ogre.
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There are SIGNIFICANT changes in resource nodes and gathering results in every hex I explored yesterday.
I won't to go into specifics, though.
I'll just say that nearly everything you knew about gathering on Wednesday is now false.
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You can do anything you set your mind to Guurzak.
I believe in you.
backs away while whistling nonchalantly
do they have a dynamic RNG that rotates the resources on a weekly basis to keep from groups camping area resources?
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Goblin Squad Member
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so... I need to start my resource survey all over again. Yay...?
Said so! Ack-pfffffff!
I think it is nice that things aren't so predictable. Actually a dynamic shifting of resources isn that bad, or perhaps not so much actually moving them around so much as shifting the borders of them and also the internal balance between them. This would of course be more appropiate for things like herbs and especially the waste heaps (that is way to predictable now in my book), less so for mining.
Right now some waste heaps are really predictable iron mines, I still think we should find more junk in the waste heaps, salvage stuff is appropiate, and everything should be in the worst column of quality.
One cool thing would be if stuff that gets destroyed in husks could end up in the middens. That would acctually create a situation that certain scavengers seek out areas with fighting and such. Of course it should be mediated and the tech to do it is waaay off (like all other tools for doing flavour stuff) .... but we can dream, can't we
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem is when a basic and heavy resource like coal is concentrated in a single corner of the map and then, apparently, is removed from the midden heaps.
Silver can be found in at least 2 different corners, copper is in a reasonably central position, but coal is found in the mineral nodes in NW and before the last patch was found in the midden nodes in the NW again.
Beside that only a few midden nodes had it and apparently they haven't it anymore.
For a resource that is needed for the metal armors it seem a bad distribution. (for weapons you can use cold iron)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Trading, trading and again trading!
This is a 4X game really in my taste, it isn't to everyones taste, but I really like the frontier feel.
It should't be an easy game, it should reward those who can organize and work people to cooperate. We are a bit too few playing to get it to work smoothly, to that I agree.
But it isn't a problem, it is a feature and frontmost a challenge to defeat!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Trading, trading and again trading!
This is a 4X game really in my taste, it isn't to everyones taste, but I really like the frontier feel.
It should't be an easy game, it should reward those who can organize and work people to cooperate. We are a bit too few playing to get it to work smoothly, to that I agree.
But it isn't a problem, it is a feature and frontmost a challenge to defeat!
There are also no brand new players willing to haul to gain a start in the game.
Eventually there will hopefully be a batch of new players who will happily risk the pvpers and spend 4 hours hauling coal in return for a suit of +1 armor or robe and a matching +1 sword or staff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess this public googledoc I made will have no use then. I always wondered wether GW would shuffle (some) resources around on a regular basis, even asked Stephen in a PM but probably too busy to answer. Or they may want to leave us in the dark about this which is fine.
To be honest, I think it is more fun if they change it around irregularly, though they will have to be careful not too mess too much with the overall regional availability of stuff. To avoid political uproar and calls of favoritism. But this indeed would create a lot more mystery as to "what is where currently".
I do not think that they will shuffle around Bulk resources though, also because Companies and their PoI's rely on some predictability about these. Would not want to have your expensive Mine to suddenly run dry of Bulk Iron because GW decided to change it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Trading, trading and again trading!
Bartering, not trading, and that is a stumbling block.
The cost of the materials is based on general rarity and "cost" of transportation.
Coal is extremely rare in every location beside a corner of the map and transporting meaningful quantities is a a core.
So, simply on the basis of its weight and usefulness it is worth x5 any other base resource, or at least it is how I would price it.
I will barter it for the same weight of a resource that can't be found in the NW corner of the map, but most of those resources have a weight of 0.1 and way less demand.
Iron can be found everywhere. Why coal is so concentrated when it is a basic resource like iron?
I don't know any other base resource that share that limit.
There are also no brand new players willing to haul to gain a start in the game.Eventually there will hopefully be a batch of new players who will happily risk the pvpers and spend 4 hours hauling coal in return for a suit of +1 armor or robe and a matching +1 sword or staff.
If I am not mistaken, it require something like 14 units of coals to make a +1 metal armor. the day we will see enough newbie to have a few interested in this proposal we sill have containers and the base carrying capacity will be halved.
So your willing newbie will be capable to haul 50 units of coal and 1/4 of that will be used to pay him.If he is capable to make the trip back and forth with the stuff to barter with the coal gatherers and the coal itself and if he can be trusted with the trade items.
Again, it don't seem a feasible mechanic for a basic resource. Especially if the gathering speed for coal is the one I have seen the last time I have done a trip in the area.
A skill 6 miner did get about 50 units of coal in more than a hour of gathering (before the last patch).
The same miner can get that amount of iron in 40 minutes while hunting for copper or silver, or half of that as an incidental byproduct of checking trash heaps.
I am perplexed about the coal rarity. I would be curious to know the actual quantity of coal against the quantity of iron present in the map.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I stand corrected!
Bartering, bartering and again bartering!
I think it is good that something is limiting the tech development (besides XP). It creates value.
If something is free, easy and everyone can get it, then it has no value.
Now a gift of 10 coal is something of note, a gatherer in a coal are is a noteworthy target ... It creates game value, that is the reason it is limited. I dearly hope the devs don't cave in and let everything get accessible everywhere, but of course some stuff need tweaking (like green).
Is something stops you, swallov your pride, retreat and skitter around it, so says HANSPUR.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can give me the name of another resource that share the coal advantages?
Restricted area where you can harvest it;
needed in great quantity;
hard to transport.
So, why whoever control the NW corner of the map should have a virtual monopoly of a vital resource while no other piece of the map can get it as there is no resource with the same advantages?
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is no protection in the highlands. Wide and open area.
The big settlements did chose mountains for defence possibilities. It comes at a price.
We are in the middle of the map - so never too far to any resource - but also always close enough if someone wants to attack us.
Forgeholm is n a corner - they will benefit from likely not being bothered much militarily but they pay a price to get resources there they don't have.
It is also easier to protect some pass into the mountain to deter poachers as it is to keep strangers out of the highlands.
We are pioneers - this game is not supposed to be easy. Where would the hallenge be.
How much coal do you need anyway? 49 for a potsteel +2, 16 for a +2 steel weapon. None if you go cold iron.
You need a single haul to equip yourself. I walked back yesterday with 78 coal on my back. Enough to fully equip a single person and done in a single play session.
Coal - you know where to get it. You don't need skills. It is hardly protected - not like golgothan mountains.
Yes - it is inconvenient. But so are many other aspects and it only feels an achievement if you have overcome a challenge or inconvenience.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well thats all and good.
But the question people are actually asking is why was the small amount of coal that could be garnered elsewhere such as Kindleburn completely removed.
Without getting into tinfoil hattery (as its unlikely the change was deliberately made to favor particular mid map settlements)- it is still valid to question the possible reasons for restricting this one particular resource.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But the question people are actually asking is why was the small amount of coal that could be garnered elsewhere such as Kindleburn completely removed.
We were told that pelt drops from midden nodes were increased - so something had to be removed. Or it might have been shifted to another place, and it hasn't been found yet. Or whoever found it is busy harvesting and can't get to the forums.