i'm going to assume you're a liar from now on,
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You can always switch the Sorcerer levels for Wizard levels if it'll make you feel better.
The spells known will become the spells in your spellbook.
Also, no bonus feats or specialty school.Since a sorcerer doesn't prepare spells, your wizard won't have any spells prepared.
This is TOO goddamn easy.
Can we make it that guy vs a 20th level warrior instead? No mythic needed.
You can always switch the Sorcerer levels for Wizard levels if it'll make you feel better.The spells known will become the spells in your spellbook.
Also, no bonus feats or specialty school.
Since a sorcerer doesn't prepare spells, your wizard won't have any spells prepared.
This is TOO g%!~@&n easy.Can we make it that guy vs a 20th level warrior instead? No mythic needed.
Oddly enough, without Mythic tiers that Warrior would would have a hard time trying to win in those conditions. Even if the Wizard was without access to spellcasting.
My point was that at least some my tactics will carry over from one to the other that you could do *some* work and convert it to get at least some ideas.
i feel it is sonic related and not completely tied to anything special from a sorcerer.
i feel it is sonic related and not completely tied to anything special from a sorcerer.
It's just more convenient on a Sorcerer. A Wizard can do most of the same things for largely the same benefits. Aside from the "brute force" approach it lends to a Sorcerer.
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Right, so when I started reading this yesterday the post count was under 750, now it's over 1100. This thread is growing faster than the Kineticist discussion thread did...
Anzyr, for 20 pages you touted about how awesome your wizard was. I don't care if you do post it to this thread or not, that's irrelevant, but you cannot use a different build with an entirely different class (and multiclassing) and wildly different tactics for the competition and claim that that counts as your wizard example. That's completely disingenuous and only proves that your wizard was not capable of rising to the challenge presented.
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That's completely disingenuous and only proves that your wizard was not capable of rising to the challenge presented.
*whispers*
Guys! There was never a wizard. It was all a lie.
i feel it is sonic related and not completely tied to anything special from a sorcerer.It's just more convenient on a Sorcerer. A Wizard can do most of the same things for largely the same benefits. Aside from the "brute force" approach it lends to a Sorcerer.
Honestly, I don't understand why you don't want to show your build to anyone AFTER the fight, as your point would already been proven.
Right, so when I started reading this yesterday the post count was under 750, now it's over 1100. This thread is growing faster than the Kineticist discussion thread did...
Anzyr, for 20 pages you touted about how awesome your wizard was. I don't care if you do post it to this thread or not, that's irrelevant, but you cannot use a different build with an entirely different class (and multiclassing) and wildly different tactics for the competition and claim that that counts as your wizard example. That's completely disingenuous and only proves that your wizard was not capable of rising to the challenge presented.
First of all, I don't like builds. Said so from the beginning. I was never talking at any point about "my" wizard "build". I was and have always been talking about the power of Wizards in general. Can I make a Wizard that can easily top the tactics I've discussed in the thread? Of course. I was most of the way through doing spell purchasing on such a build, but as I've stated previously, I'm not publicizing it. That's not disingenuous. Any Wizard willing to devote a few spells known or a few gold can use the tactics I've discussed here. Their valid tactics. Not the one's I would have used in PVP, but valid nonetheless.
Honestly, I don't understand why you don't want to show your build to anyone AFTER the fight, as your point would already been proven.i feel it is sonic related and not completely tied to anything special from a sorcerer.It's just more convenient on a Sorcerer. A Wizard can do most of the same things for largely the same benefits. Aside from the "brute force" approach it lends to a Sorcerer.
Until the next challenge. The Sorcerer build does not suffer similarly.
First of all, I don't like builds. Said so from the beginning. I was never talking at any point about "my" wizard "build". I was and have always been talking about the power of Wizards in general. Can I make a Wizard that can easily top the tactics I've discussed in the thread? Of course. I was most of the way through doing spell purchasing on such a build, but as I've stated previously, I'm not publicizing it. That's not disingenuous. Any Wizard willing to devote a few spells known or a few gold can use the tactics I've discussed here. Their valid tactics. Not the one's I would have used in PVP, but valid nonetheless.Right, so when I started reading this yesterday the post count was under 750, now it's over 1100. This thread is growing faster than the Kineticist discussion thread did...
Anzyr, for 20 pages you touted about how awesome your wizard was. I don't care if you do post it to this thread or not, that's irrelevant, but you cannot use a different build with an entirely different class (and multiclassing) and wildly different tactics for the competition and claim that that counts as your wizard example. That's completely disingenuous and only proves that your wizard was not capable of rising to the challenge presented.
So you were literally, actually, defending Schrödinger's wizard
So you were literally, actually, defending Schrödinger's wizardFirst of all, I don't like builds. Said so from the beginning. I was never talking at any point about "my" wizard "build". I was and have always been talking about the power of Wizards in general. Can I make a Wizard that can easily top the tactics I've discussed in the thread? Of course. I was most of the way through doing spell purchasing on such a build, but as I've stated previously, I'm not publicizing it. That's not disingenuous. Any Wizard willing to devote a few spells known or a few gold can use the tactics I've discussed here. Their valid tactics. Not the one's I would have used in PVP, but valid nonetheless.Right, so when I started reading this yesterday the post count was under 750, now it's over 1100. This thread is growing faster than the Kineticist discussion thread did...
Anzyr, for 20 pages you touted about how awesome your wizard was. I don't care if you do post it to this thread or not, that's irrelevant, but you cannot use a different build with an entirely different class (and multiclassing) and wildly different tactics for the competition and claim that that counts as your wizard example. That's completely disingenuous and only proves that your wizard was not capable of rising to the challenge presented.
It wasn't Schrodinger's any Wizard could have access to those tactics with a pittance of money or a small amount of spells known. Again. Builds do not show anything about class power. I've said that. Several times. I said I would submit a build if it wasn't publicized, but at no point in the thread have I ever said or suggested I was talking about a build. I have in fact, been rejecting builds from the start. All builds show is skill of the builder. Not the power of the class.
I like how Anyr keeps going. He'll never post a build. No matter how much any of us try to pry one out of him.
This guys posted a level 20 wizard build
After a moderate amount of searching, it was the only PF level 20 wizard I could find.
So you were literally, actually, defending Schrödinger's wizard
You have to understand, there is no special process that one has to go through to start spewing words all over the internet.
Things like this happen quite often.
It wasn't Schrodinger's any Wizard could have access to those tactics with a pittance of money or a small amount of spells known. Again. Builds do not show anything about class power. I've said that. Several times. I said I would submit a build if it wasn't publicized, but at no point in the thread have I ever said or suggested I was talking about a build. I have in fact, been rejecting builds from the start. All builds show is skill of the builder. Not the power of the class.So you were literally, actually, defending Schrödinger's wizardFirst of all, I don't like builds. Said so from the beginning. I was never talking at any point about "my" wizard "build". I was and have always been talking about the power of Wizards in general. Can I make a Wizard that can easily top the tactics I've discussed in the thread? Of course. I was most of the way through doing spell purchasing on such a build, but as I've stated previously, I'm not publicizing it. That's not disingenuous. Any Wizard willing to devote a few spells known or a few gold can use the tactics I've discussed here. Their valid tactics. Not the one's I would have used in PVP, but valid nonetheless.Right, so when I started reading this yesterday the post count was under 750, now it's over 1100. This thread is growing faster than the Kineticist discussion thread did...
Anzyr, for 20 pages you touted about how awesome your wizard was. I don't care if you do post it to this thread or not, that's irrelevant, but you cannot use a different build with an entirely different class (and multiclassing) and wildly different tactics for the competition and claim that that counts as your wizard example. That's completely disingenuous and only proves that your wizard was not capable of rising to the challenge presented.
Then prove to us that any Wizard could have access to all these tactics with only one week of preparation as andreww is giving as the rules of his arena challenge. As has been stated many, many times, the only to prove that a Wizard can actually do something is to present a Wizard that actually does. Not just some hypothetical nebulous Wizard concept that might.
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@Anzyr
I get it, builds show the skill of the builder and not the class, that is somewhat true, but hardly the whole case. At the end of the day a class has to be played to be effective. The Wizard can sit there all day long in your imagination but until it actually sees a table and does some things it's less effective than a Commoner, because it isn't actually doing anything.
Does a class gain the influence of someone who builds it? Yes. But this is a necessity in the use of a class, you can't have one without the other. Trying to argue anything else isn't actually doing anything.
While I agree that the tactics you've been mentioning dont really require a build to show or discuss as just about any high level pointy hat can exploit it thus rendering the tactic external to a specific build, I also disagree that builds don't demonstrate the power of the class. True, this power will fluctuate based on the builders game mastery and mind for strategy, but each build serves to demonstrate the various potential states of the class. Yes, that includes the power levels of the class in less adept hands vs expert builders. But both sets of information are useful. Especially when judging the classes learning curve and over all barrier of entry due to complexity as well as coming to understand the most common and outlier strengths and features.
The thing is, if either a wizard or sorcerer can do it, then it's more likely any full caster can do it. It's not wizards are powerful. It's casters are powerful. That's the theme. Nothing to see here!
Huh, something we agree on.
It wasn't Schrodinger's any Wizard could have access to those tactics with a pittance of money or a small amount of spells known. Again. Builds do not show anything about class power. I've said that. Several times. I said I would submit a build if it wasn't publicized, but at no point in the thread have I ever said or suggested I was talking about a build. I have in fact, been rejecting builds from the start. All builds show is skill of the builder. Not the power of the class.
A pittance without blood money, I assume? Since that's, y'know, not in the PRD or anything.
I'm honestly rather surprised by your reasoning as far as why you won't show a build. You used to remark often about system mastery and hint at your exceptional capability with that metric. A rationale that is about not wanting to display said skill is somewhat odd at this point. Not an unpleasant surprise, of course, but a surprise nonetheless.
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"Sometimes it is better to stay silent then to speak and let your ignorance be known."
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I do hope you'll submit a build against my Sorcerer. Might want to deafen yourself first.Oh there's a build.RightYou'll see my build on post #6 in this thread.
I found a way to counter it later on in the thread with a wizard showing all the stats that would be in play.
I got so tired of waiting on you, that I began to argue myself. I even found a method to make an air-tight geas command while you refused to show even that much.
I still say that if your talking about an invisible, flying, Geas casting character that's not a fighter it's a battlemage.
@Kthulu
Could you please either spell wizard right or explain why your persistently misspelling it as the way your doing so is beginning to grate on my nerves given its insulting nature.
Re Silver Cord
I have to agree its not made of actual silver, that's just its colour just like celestial plate is not made of actual gold. I'm sure there are ways to sever it but I very much doubt simply being able to see invisible and attack intangible objects is what they is.
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OMG this thread has been solid gold entertainment. You guys are killin me.
- Torger
The only sufficient way to show that a fighter with Tiers will win, hands down, is to show that there is no combination of spells that will defeat the mythic fighter (so long as the fighter is using the tactic that it is built for - I think anybody can be forgiven for dying to a random wizard attack while your walking to pick up groceries)
That's the power of a wizard -- they're very customizable to the circumstances at hand. Also, removing divination/skill checks is at the very least not in the spirit of how this would be played out in a real game (beyond deities picking random characters to duel to defeat, I suppose)
Anzyr seems to imply that there is no combination of powers that will accomplish this, because there is always some (possibly poorly) written spell that will overcome the challenge.
I am not yet convinced.
The Astral Projection tactic is a delaying move. It does not resolve the issue really at hand, that the wizard actually needs to defeat the fighter in order to claim victory. How does this happen? The fighter is still undetectable, and feasibly has a move action (possibly a full round of action, as he would be coming off of what is effectively a surprise round in regard to all the other creatures, and you would need to at the very least teleport/plane shift with your turn (if you want to show your real face, without any buffs to the dude who just one-shot you)
The Simulacrum tactic. This is an admission that the wizard is incapable of winning, without so heavily skewing action economy and calculated wealth by level that you are not really fighting a wizard anymore. I think we were still within the first 10 pages when we decided we shouldn't just have the fighter bring a level 17 wizard along via leadership. To wit, the suggested solar method produces a CR 25 encounter (counting a wizard as CR 20 and each simulacrum as CR 8 (from monster creation table for 11 HD outsider) with only 280 simulacra. This is the number (mind you, this is high balling the number, because the simulacrum has abilities *far* beyond other similar CR 8 creatures) that the rules considers equivalent to 10 Mythic Tiers. Can you defeat the fighter without pumping your CR beyond the original challenge?
If you want a bunch of simulacra, count them against your WBL and they become part and parcel of your class feature. Otherwise, you are not genuinely presenting a Level 20 Wizard by the standards of the game.
Edit in reply to Senko: You're right. I am not legitimately presenting a fighter. I am using the mythic abilities to subsume any need to present a fighter.
I still say that if your talking about an invisible, flying, Geas casting character that's not a fighter it's a battlemage.I do hope you'll submit a build against my Sorcerer. Might want to deafen yourself first.Oh there's a build.RightYou'll see my build on post #6 in this thread.
I found a way to counter it later on in the thread with a wizard showing all the stats that would be in play.
I got so tired of waiting on you, that I began to argue myself. I even found a method to make an air-tight geas command while you refused to show even that much.
Mind you, this is a Mythic Fighter, not a regular one. If you aren't doing all kinds of weeabo fightan magic by Mythic Tier 10, you're not exactly mythic.
This thread delivers, mythically.
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Honestly, even without builds and actually fighting, the fact that a Fighter would need to spend half their WBL on scrolls to the point of not even looking like a Fighter any more to beat a Wizard just kinda proves the disparity between caster and martial.
Honestly, even without builds and actually fighting, the fact that a Fighter would need to spend half their WBL on scrolls to the point of not even looking like a Fighter any more to beat a Wizard just kinda proves the disparity between caster and martial.
I kinda figured that the very topic of the thread, that we needed to give the fighter 10 mythic tiers just to make it a question of possibility at all, sealed the question of whether such a disparity exists.
Have we spent half of our WBL? Ive gotten an Echolocation and a Spellbane, with a ring of invisibility, ring of sustenance, and wings of flying. I toyed around with the idea of the Headband of Sealed Thoughts (though I don't think its really necessary).
Everything else was coming out of Divine Source slots.
We all recognize that, when played in particular ways, casters outpace martials. The initial question was whether Mythic Tiers can overcome this. The above items are hardly onerous in that regard. YMMV.
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Mind you, this is a Mythic Fighter, not a regular one. If you aren't doing all kinds of weeabo fightan magic by Mythic Tier 10, you're not exactly mythic.I still say that if your talking about an invisible, flying, Geas casting character that's not a fighter it's a battlemage.I do hope you'll submit a build against my Sorcerer. Might want to deafen yourself first.Oh there's a build.RightYou'll see my build on post #6 in this thread.
I found a way to counter it later on in the thread with a wizard showing all the stats that would be in play.
I got so tired of waiting on you, that I began to argue myself. I even found a method to make an air-tight geas command while you refused to show even that much.
Oh don't get me wrong if a fighter in a 20/10 mythic group I was part of took these options I wouldn't say a word. I'd be taking a level of ranger and the eldritch knight class to slightly improve my melee survivability myself (although my tendency to choose options for life after the campaign would mean he'd be more powerful mechanically if he was going this route). What I'm saying is the original challenge was mythic fighter vs nonmythic mage and if the fighters relying on a bunch of spells (flight, invisibility, Geas) and an ability that broken or otherwise is more rogueish in nature (undetectable while invisible) its not a mythic "fighter". Then again if I thought it enforceable and was gming I'd require the beings involved in this duel be designed as part of an adventuring party not as seems to be the case in what's proposed a stand alone fighter/mage killer character. In your stereotypical party of fighter/mage/theif/cleric would the fighter typically set themselves up as an invisible, flying, Geas casting character? The rogue I can see it (minus the geas) as they want that sneak attack from behind but not the fighter who's generally in my groups been designed to be as visible as possible to tie down enemies and keep them away from the Mage's.
I agree with you entirely Senko. I don't like where I've needed to go to attempt to counter potential tactics.
My hope is that, should we get something that works, we can make it more fighter like.
This thread has entertained me massively.
Anzyr, do you have an answer to Mythic Cloudkill? It works like regular Cloudkill except it works on critters that are immune to poison and has (at this tier) all the HD limits raised by 10. Those Solar Simulacra? No-save-just-dead. Any Simulacra you can make are also dead unless you can make them with more than 13 HD.
Also, seriously, the whole thread is dying to know how you counter Undetectable. Because the wording is super clear; can't be detected by anyone ever. He could walk up to you and tap you on the shoulder and YOU WOULDN'T FEEL IT EVER.
I agree with you entirely Senko. I don't like where I've needed to go to attempt to counter potential tactics.
My hope is that, should we get something that works, we can make it more fighter like.
Wait, so your hope is to create a character with the maximum number of non-fighting man abilities that people will accept as still being a fighting man? The very fact that you require something that works first in order to begin making it more fighter like is telling don't you think?
If this thread were a tangible object, I would have it bronzed and put on display. 1,132 posts (including mine), since Thursday, that's gotta be some kind of record man.
I think that fully 1/4 of those posts are from one person. Care to guess who? Here's some tips:
Smug, self-assured, subject of much (hilarious) ridicule so far. Proclaims they are right constantly in what I assume must be the largest echo chamber since Cable news. Proponent of Schrodingers Wizard-Actually-He's-a Sorcerer-Now-as-we-forum-scum-are-not-worthy-of-the-Wizards-true-glory.Does n't know anything about Myhtic rules and how borked they are Makes leaps in logic but balks when others do the same?
I imagine we can all guess who that was.
Forum Moderators have mercy on my soul.
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Wait, so your hope is to create a character with the maximum number of non-fighting man abilities that people will accept as still being a fighting man? The very fact that you require something that works first in order to begin making it more fighter like is telling don't you think?I agree with you entirely Senko. I don't like where I've needed to go to attempt to counter potential tactics.
My hope is that, should we get something that works, we can make it more fighter like.
The wacky Mythic tricks were in response to Explosive rules stacks and other shenanigans. Some would call that "clever spellcasting" while I would call it disingenuous.
In a straight out no pre-buffs duel it comes down to who wins initiative. Because the Mythic Fighter has a Mythic Vital Strike and can hit you from virtually any distance (let's assume he has a bow) for 1k damage a blow. Twice per round. Even if the Wizard wins inititive the Fighter is literally un-killable. Since the Wizard can't know that (remember no prep time) he likely levels a SoD spell at the Fighter. Who shrugs is off. Or a SoS spell that said Fighter can reroll 15+ times until he succeeds or he might be flat immune to already.
The thread exploded and it was GLORIOUS to watch.
It started with a simple premise like the one above, but then the arguments devolved into "But what if the Wizard had X?"
"Then the Fighter has Y"
"Yeah but a Wizard would never not be pre-buffed"
"Oh yeah? Mythic Vital Strike was being nice. Now Fighter bro is a DemiGod and has copied all your tricks."
"Well, my Wizard has tricks you don't know about."
"Do Tell."
"No, and actually now he's a sorcerer, with another trick that is even cooler.
"Seriously?"
"Yeah, and my dad could beat up your dad."
That about sums the thread. With liberal doses of one side ignoring the other. I'll let you guess which side ignored which ;).
Yikes.
Also, WPharolin: I think its a pretty safe assumption that, were this a real party, the fighter could rely on some sort of caster support. Lacking that, yes, I am abusing Mythic abilities to get caster support that the wizard cannot (by the way this challenge was proposed) duplicate.
I don't like it. However, I believe it is needed if we are considering the many exploitative things wizards can do (I originally had to do most of it just to avoid insta-gib by Explosive Runes. Since then, the ending move has gone about the place a little, but the flavor is still needed just to avoid that tactic)
Oh, and Roan. Mythic Paragon ups that to 15 HD. Seriously, Mythic Cloudkill is great. Unfortunately, its not given by Divine Source, and I don't know another Rules given way to get it so we can take it as Mythic.
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If this thread were a tangible object, I would have it bronzed and put on display. 1,132 posts (including mine), since Thursday, that's gotta be some kind of record man.I think that fully 1/4 of those posts are from one person. Care to guess who? Here's some tips:
Smug, self-assured, subject of much (hilarious) ridicule so far. Proclaims they are right constantly in what I assume must be the largest echo chamber since Cable news. Proponent of Schrodingers Wizard-Actually-He's-a Sorcerer-Now-as-we-forum-scum-are-not-worthy-of-the-Wizards-true-glory.Does n't know anything about Myhtic rules and how borked they are Makes leaps in logic but balks when others do the same?
I imagine we can all guess who that was.
Forum Moderators have mercy on my soul.
lol, I have been tracking this thread out of pure entertainment value. Although I personally enjoy playing Wizards, I never make assumptions concerning ease of victory. Until I'm actually confronted with a combat encounter, I can't guarantee anything other than making the best out of my available options. Sometimes you win some, and sometimes you lose.
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I agree with you entirely Senko. I don't like where I've needed to go to attempt to counter potential tactics.
My hope is that, should we get something that works, we can make it more fighter like.
Hmmm how about a deal then I'll try to put together a 20th level wizard build after work tomorrow night when I'm home and have access to books where I'll be making choices to try and maximise their options while you design an actual mythic fighter I.e. Filling the fighter role in a party and we'll put then up against each other. I normaly pick options based on personal taste/what works in a campaign so my choices will be what I suspect an average/new player would take to make a powerful wizard and not have a bunch of exploits/debatable tactics involved. Meanwhile you'll design a fighter who you'd expect to see in a party. We both stick to options that you'd expect in those circumstances. Afterall the thread is can a mythic fighter beat a nonmythic wizard not is it possible to build an unbeatable solo character.
EDIT
I also think I'd need to insist on a rule that being killed counts as a loss. Since being out of action for 24 hours till your immortality would give me plenty of time to steal whatever your guarding and resurrecting as a clone, getting negative levels dispelled and teleporting to take your family and friends hostage ill gives you time to steal an item as well. Anything that requires a ressurection ability counts as a loss.
Oh, and Roan. Mythic Paragon ups that to 15 HD. Seriously, Mythic Cloudkill is great. Unfortunately, its not given by Divine Source, and I don't know another Rules given way to get it so we can take it as Mythic.
Construct Domain gives limited Wish. Mythic Spellcasting can make that Mythic Limited Wish, which can duplicate Mythic Wizard/Sorcerer spells 6th level and below.
I have done my homework this time :)
Alas, I have to be the bearer of bad news Roan. As of this post, Anzyr has only contributed 253 of 1139 posts in this thread. (Source - search Anzyr in this thread. Read the name of the poster -- this goes pretty fast when you see where to look on each post, because it appears as though the system filters by poster first, then by relevance)
That's not quite a full quarter.
lol, I have been tracking this thread out of pure entertainment value. Although I personally enjoy playing Wizards, I never make assumptions concerning ease of victory. Until I'm actually confronted with a combat encounter, I can't guarantee anything other than making the best out of my available options. Sometimes you win some, and sometimes you lose.If this thread were a tangible object, I would have it bronzed and put on display. 1,132 posts (including mine), since Thursday, that's gotta be some kind of record man.I think that fully 1/4 of those posts are from one person. Care to guess who? Here's some tips:
Smug, self-assured, subject of much (hilarious) ridicule so far. Proclaims they are right constantly in what I assume must be the largest echo chamber since Cable news. Proponent of Schrodingers Wizard-Actually-He's-a Sorcerer-Now-as-we-forum-scum-are-not-worthy-of-the-Wizards-true-glory.Does n't know anything about Myhtic rules and how borked they are Makes leaps in logic but balks when others do the same?
I imagine we can all guess who that was.
Forum Moderators have mercy on my soul.
B-but Schrodingers Wizard can never lose! He exists in a constant superimposed state of victory. Until observed at least. Which is why HE MUST NEVER BE DIRECTLY OBSERVED. To do so could potentially shatter the grand illusion and bring -gasp- sense into this thread!
Blasphemy!
I thought that's what this thread was about! Seriously, anyone who's read all 1,100+ should realize that by now ;).
Ooh. That it can. I even put Artifice on my Domain list last time I updated it because it had Limited Wish (I hadn't looked at the Mythic Version for a while though). Nice!
...
And since you uttered the word, any good outsider in this thread should probably think about getting out while they can?
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lol, I have been tracking this thread out of pure entertainment value. Although I personally enjoy playing Wizards, I never make assumptions concerning ease of victory. Until I'm actually confronted with a combat encounter, I can't guarantee anything other than making the best out of my available options. Sometimes you win some, and sometimes you lose.If this thread were a tangible object, I would have it bronzed and put on display. 1,132 posts (including mine), since Thursday, that's gotta be some kind of record man.I think that fully 1/4 of those posts are from one person. Care to guess who? Here's some tips:
Smug, self-assured, subject of much (hilarious) ridicule so far. Proclaims they are right constantly in what I assume must be the largest echo chamber since Cable news. Proponent of Schrodingers Wizard-Actually-He's-a Sorcerer-Now-as-we-forum-scum-are-not-worthy-of-the-Wizards-true-glory.Does n't know anything about Myhtic rules and how borked they are Makes leaps in logic but balks when others do the same?
I imagine we can all guess who that was.
Forum Moderators have mercy on my soul.
B-but Schrodingers Wizard can never lose! He exists in a constant superimposed state of victory. Until observed at least. Which is why HE MUST NEVER BE DIRECTLY OBSERVED. To do so could potentially shatter the grand illusion and bring -gasp- sense into this thread!
Blasphemy!
I thought that's what this thread was about! Seriously, anyone who's read all 1,100+ should realize that by now ;).
You're absolutely correct. Can I get an atonement so I can wash this sin away?
Alas, I have to be the bearer of bad news Roan. As of this post, Anzyr has only contributed 253 of 1139 posts in this thread. (Source - search Anzyr in this thread. Read the name of the poster -- this goes pretty fast when you see where to look on each post, because it appears as though the system filters by poster first, then by relevance)
That's not quite a full quarter.
Give him time, Adept-Woodwright, give him time...
He only needs to make 47 of the next 61 posts. Not impossible.
In fact it would be easier for him if he made the next 147 out of 461. That is much more Reasonable.
No, I must excuse myself for the night. I have used the R word in this thread and that constitutes at least a 12-hour self-imposed exile. I'm sure you understand.
Yep. Have a good night all!
The wacky Mythic tricks were in response to Explosive rules stacks and other shenanigans. Some would call that "clever spellcasting" while I would call it disingenuous.
Oh, theres been plenty of disingenuous crap on both sides. As well as condescending, smug arrogance, and flippant disregard for valid points. I'm aware. And pointing it out while being flippant, smug, and arrogant is disingenuous. I do not mean that disrespectfully, but it certainly smacks of hypocrisy when you call someone out for their demeanor while treating them the same way.
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Oh, and Roan. Mythic Paragon ups that to 15 HD. Seriously, Mythic Cloudkill is great. Unfortunately, its not given by Divine Source, and I don't know another Rules given way to get it so we can take it as Mythic.Construct Domain gives limited Wish. Mythic Spellcasting can make that Mythic Limited Wish, which can duplicate Mythic Wizard/Sorcerer spells 6th level and below.
I have done my homework this time :)
You don't know the spell nor can cast the spell.
You have SLA, and I don't believe it should be enough. But whatever.The whole point of this thread was to know if a no-class level 20 with 10 mythic tiers could do something against a wizard 20.
The answer is maybe.
And I insist on "no-class", because the "fighter" part of the character contributes to nothing that the character does. (Yes, you can check the whole 1000+ posts, there are litterally nothing coming from the fighter, everything comes from the Mythic tiers).
Yes, this topic has achieved the fact of proving that the fighter can't contribute in any way against a high level wizard.
Oh, and Roan. Mythic Paragon ups that to 15 HD. Seriously, Mythic Cloudkill is great. Unfortunately, its not given by Divine Source, and I don't know another Rules given way to get it so we can take it as Mythic.Construct Domain gives limited Wish. Mythic Spellcasting can make that Mythic Limited Wish, which can duplicate Mythic Wizard/Sorcerer spells 6th level and below.
I have done my homework this time :)
You don't know the spell nor can cast the spell.
You have SLA, and I don't believe it should be enough. But whatever.The whole point of this thread was to know if a no-class level 20 with 10 mythic tiers could do something against a wizard 20.
The answer is maybe.
And I insist on "no-class", because the "fighter" part of the character contributes to nothing that the character does. (Yes, you can check the whole 1000+ posts, there are litterally nothing coming from the fighter, everything comes from the Mythic tiers).
Yes, this topic has achieved the fact of proving that the fighter can't contribute in any way against a high level wizard.
So to beat a Wizard, you have to be two thirds of the way to godhood (At least Mythic 6 according to posts)
Nice
Oh, and Roan. Mythic Paragon ups that to 15 HD. Seriously, Mythic Cloudkill is great. Unfortunately, its not given by Divine Source, and I don't know another Rules given way to get it so we can take it as Mythic.Construct Domain gives limited Wish. Mythic Spellcasting can make that Mythic Limited Wish, which can duplicate Mythic Wizard/Sorcerer spells 6th level and below.
I have done my homework this time :)
You don't know the spell nor can cast the spell.
You have SLA, and I don't believe it should be enough. But whatever.The whole point of this thread was to know if a no-class level 20 with 10 mythic tiers could do something against a wizard 20.
The answer is maybe.
And I insist on "no-class", because the "fighter" part of the character contributes to nothing that the character does. (Yes, you can check the whole 1000+ posts, there are litterally nothing coming from the fighter, everything comes from the Mythic tiers).
Yes, this topic has achieved the fact of proving that the fighter can't contribute in any way against a high level wizard.
I disagree, people have posted enough about the fighters that it's clear that they intend to defeat the Wizard through physical combat. Large numbers of feats, the Unbreakable fighter archetype and high damage are all things mentioned that lead to the fighter class quite easily.