Ok, so as stated with the Title, I will be in a party with possibly 2 rogues. I was with the two players before, and they did have a good rogue pair. Anyhow, the setting is everyone but the PC's are good, so We will be trying to destabilize the peace, without drawing Attention to ourselves, or we will most likely be found and killed.
I Do think if there are two rogues they will do great, I'm more worried about everyone not being able to hit something.
My current thoughts are:
Alchemist/ Master Chymist
Druid
Cavalier
Inquisitor
Summoner
Any opinions, or things I should think about?
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Not a wizard?
By a "Forge of Combat" style analysis, you have two hammers. You basically NEED a good anvil, and secondarily an arm.
Battlefield control wizard is probably the top choice. Of the options listed, druid is probably the best, cavalier is the worst.
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If your primary concern is that inability for the rogues to hit, build a character to help them hit?
Off the top of my head:
- Bard (Inspire Courage, Good Hope and Haste) +4-7 to hit
- Suggest the rogues pick up Outflank (increases flank bonus to +4, and if one crits the other can take an AoO)
- Wield a +1 Menacing rapier and go into melee (or gain an animal companion and equip it with a Menacing Amulet of Mighty Fists, or suggest one of the rogues get Menacing on his weapon). It increases flanking bonuses by +2.
- Learn Jester's Jaunt to move the rogues into flanking position so they can attack on their turns.
When you're not actively buffing, you can use a weapon and attack and provide an additional flanker.
Depending on the rogue build, they may or may not have difficulty with enemies that are immune to precision damage or flanking, though some of your buffs will aid with this. If the rogues are amenable to suggestions, one of them going for a hulking strength-based, 2 handed weapon wielding, power attacking rogue will help stabilize damage against enemies immune to precision.
A Dirty Trick build could be fun as well - focus on blinding the enemy, and let the rogues wail on him.
No Idea what the 4th player will be yet, So i was trying to find away to cover as many bases as possible. Many of these characters, at least all but The Chymist and the Cavalier, should be able to do many things, The druid, and Inquisitor being the most Versatile in my opinion.
Seeing as how I don't know what the 4th will do, I figure all opinions will help
Bard Bard Bard Bard. You get skills that dovetail nicely with Rogues so you can infiltrate with them and not clang around in heavy armour. You spell list has a bunch of good healing and crowd control spells. Your songs help them hit, and most importantly bard can straddled the cleric/wizard role just in case the 4th person shows up with something less than useful like an archer fighter. Inquisitor is also quite good at these things, but a bard has more crowd control. A held or blinded enemy is a dead enemy.
Two rogues does cry out for something Bard-y. My favourite bard replacement at the moment is the Evangelist cleric archetype, specifically with the Glory (Heroism) subdomain. This way you still get inspire courage, the 8th level domain power more-or-less duplicates good hope and you still get full divine casting progression to boot. Given you've got two rogues I imagine the skill-monkey role is filled. Be the godly caster.
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Animal/feather/fur domain evangelist cleric. Fluffy is now the rogues flank buddy(esp if you grabbed something like a roc with a fly speed). Fluffy could also be the party tank (if you grabbed a anklyosaurus, or a stegosaurus(trip, anyone?)). And, you have bard song ^^
urm...try posing as a circus? I'm sure rogues have lots of acro, and we have exotic animals in circus no?
evangelist cleric, skald or bard would be good, but honestly just having a wizard with some heroism and flanking summons handy will resolve the hitting problem just as well.
Bard de-Buff specialist. Use Cornugon Smash to demoralize, Hurtful with a Cruel Weapon get's them Shaken and Sickened in one round. Here is a thread with that type of build Clicky
Look into the 'Mouser' Swashbuckler for a class that can definitely enable any melee character(s) who rely on a Sneak Attack damage mechanic.
I'd talk to the fourth guy - one of the two of you will probably want some level of healing capability.
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I'd say go with something like druid. Full casting, some healing, and a big companion or summons to add flankers or take the meatshield role. Wildshape is a pretty good stealth option.
Did drop the Cavalier, as yes It would be useless for the party. Did come up with a Cleric/ Bard Idea as support.
As for the druid, Voadam I did have an Idea similar, with My companion being a Roc, which I would later ride with a Lance and aid the rogues from the air.
Still, never though picking a character class would be so hard.
Imbicatus' suggestion of the Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor is extremely solid. I'd encourage one of the rogues to move towards Slayer to be slightly more fighty.
Skald, Bard, certain types of Cleric...all decent choices. Make sure everyone takes Stealth Synergy.
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I'd suggest either bard (especially if the rogues are going TWF or nat weapons since they have multiple attacks for you to buff) or a manuver master monk based upon dirty trick. Once you hit 6 and get greater dirty trick - it can get pretty mean - especially great for blidning stuff. (A bit weak before then - you'd probably want a 2nd manuver to to use when not ganging up with the rogues.)
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If you need to carry a 4 person party with 2 rogues in it you will probably want a barbarian to carry all the weight.
Maybe a druid with animal growth and ant haul on his companion to carry everyone more comfortably.
I don't know how you'd fit everyone on the barbarian, you'd probably need some sort of special saddle.
Really, though with a party of two rogues a wizard can come in handy. Battle field control to direct the enemy or split them. Summoning for flanking buddies. Buffing to help protect them from being the glass "cannons" they are.
Classes that are mostly focused around damage output probably wont help that much because you already have two characetrs focusing on that. Their success at that role is questionable, but dedicating a 3rd character to it will leave important roles unfilled by the party.
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If you need to carry a 4 person party with 2 rogues in it you will probably want a barbarian to carry all the weight.
Maybe a druid with animal growth and ant haul on his companion to carry everyone more comfortably.
I don't know how you'd fit everyone on the barbarian, you'd probably need some sort of special saddle.
Here it is. The start of the 'rogues suck' bandwagon. I'm surprised that it took so long to get here. :P
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Here it is. The start of the 'rogues suck' bandwagon. I'm surprised that it took so long to get here. :PIf you need to carry a 4 person party with 2 rogues in it you will probably want a barbarian to carry all the weight.
Maybe a druid with animal growth and ant haul on his companion to carry everyone more comfortably.
I don't know how you'd fit everyone on the barbarian, you'd probably need some sort of special saddle.
Are you aware I was trying to make a joke about literally carrying people?
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Not a wizard?
By a "Forge of Combat" style analysis, you have two hammers. You basically NEED a good anvil, and secondarily an arm.
Battlefield control wizard is probably the top choice. Of the options listed, druid is probably the best, cavalier is the worst.
I have a druid in PFS, and he's been doing great with battlefield control with spells like Entangle and Soften Earth and Stone
If they go with a snake or tiger animal companion and teach it to pin enemies, that will deny enemies their dexterity bonus to AC, which will help out the rogues.
While bards are nice, they're 6th-level casters so eventually the DCs of their illusion spells for control will taper off, and their biggest buffing options, Bardic Performance, really shines in larger parties rather than smaller parties.
I generally would advice against thinking that your character have to carry the party. If the others want to play rogues make somthing along the same Lines and have fun in that end of the power scale.
You could play a Drow and take the nobility line, then have the other players all play fanglord characters that get sneak attack.
Fanglords in shifted form have See in Darkness (SU), which basically means they can constantly sneak attack in the deeper darkness spam when you hit 5th level.
Glitterdust happy sorcerer. Rogues love hitting blind opponents that have no concealment.
The consensus is the 3rd player should be a bard.
So the 4th?
I suggest a mystic theurge.
Mystic Theurges built simple mindedly suck, 3 lvls of 2 casting classes and then... yuk.
There is a thread here on how to build mystic theurges. Spell like abilities can be used to meet pre-requisites and you have far fewer levels where you are not progressing in both classes, makes the whole prestige class good.
My logic is every party needs a healer and offensive caster. You have 1 character left so you need one who does both.
I would also consider, if I was thinking of being one of the rogues, playing an arcane trickster instead, or sort of instead. Get a ring of swarm of stabs, so you only need 1 lvl of rogue to be an arcane trickster.
Beg borrow or steal one, wait, just steal one. :)
That gives-
Rogue
Arcane Trickster
Bard
Mystic Theurge or just a Divine caster.
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Go for an all-sneaky party. Everyone get the Stealth Synergy feat. It'll be great. The Trickery Domain gives Bluff, Intimidate, and Stealth as class skills. Tell the 4th person that they can create any character they want, so long as they have the feat Stealth Synergy and the will to use it in a group. You really do want one divine caster and one arcane casters, if at all possible.
a darkness full buff and heal cleric, I seem to remember they get some sort of minor invisibility right?
we have a martial buff-focused in our game right now and it's amazing how fun the fights gets as he starts handing out protections, enchantments and stat increases during a fight.
Not to mention that we would have died on that mountain without his conjure food and protection against elements.