Enora, the Iconic Arcanist: how the heck do you keep your cloak on?!


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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Love the artwork; love the character concept.

However, I'm reproducing her outfit for a cosplay, and I've got to know how her cape/capelet/cloak attaches to her body. She's pretty clearly wearing a long-sleeved dress seperate from the cloak, but there's no visible attachment points or even a cord to connect it across her collarbone.

These are the only Paizo-made illustrations I can find of her*, and here is her Reaper Mini. Can anyone provide guidance, or even an alternate picture that I've overlooked?

Apologies if this is the wrong forum for this question.

*(Source: Advanced Class Guide; Advanced Class Origins; Advanced Class Guide)


Probably Magic.

Shadow Lodge

It almost looks as if all of the blue material would be one big set of fancy robes with a more simple white dress underneath.


the Queen's Raven wrote:
It almost looks as if all of the blue material would be one big set of fancy robes with a more simple white dress underneath.

That was one thought, but I can't imagine the practicality of a garment where you have to take off your whole dress to take off your cloak. Also I think the weight of the cloak would pull the entire dress to the shoulders instead of it hanging the way it's drawn.

Anzyr wrote:
Probably Magic.

Darn magic. *snaps fingers in dismay*


the Queen's Raven wrote:
It almost looks as if all of the blue material would be one big set of fancy robes with a more simple white dress underneath.

Definitely think the cloak and hood are part of a larger set of robes that she wears more like a mantle...


Anzyr wrote:
Probably Magic.

No, that would be Seoni ;-P


extinct_fizz wrote:

Love the artwork; love the character concept.

However, I'm reproducing her outfit for a cosplay, and I've got to know how her cape/capelet/cloak attaches to her body. She's pretty clearly wearing a long-sleeved dress seperate from the cloak, but there's no visible attachment points or even a cord to connect it across her collarbone.

These are the only Paizo-made illustrations I can find of her*, and here is her Reaper Mini. Can anyone provide guidance, or even an alternate picture that I've overlooked?

Apologies if this is the wrong forum for this question.

*(Source: Advanced Class Guide; Advanced Class Origins; Advanced Class Guide)

Potentially attaches at the shoulders, much like Thor.

Thor picture

Shadow Lodge

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Well you could always hide some snaps under the robe that would fasten it to the dress. Then carry some nifty little decorations with the same snaps in your bag, and when you remove the cloak cover the snaps with the decorations.

Shadow Lodge

And as far as weight of fabric goes, I would go with something very thin and light and paint the silver designs on, that would cut down on some shoulder drag.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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If I were sewing it, possibly adding some snaps on the the underside of the more stiff mantle area and the inside of the top for the hood? I've pinged our resident cosplay wizard, Erik Keith for some input.

[edit]: D'oh! Ninja-ed!


Well, that is a challenge. To top it off, it seems the pics show different solutions. However, going by the class presentation pic, it seems the cloak is folded at her neck. More, it seems folded or sewn into the back of the neckline of the rest of the dress. It certainly doesn't seem to be only one blue fabric involved. I would guess one light blue in her cloak, one dark blue outer layer of the dress, beneath that a brown one, beneath that a lighter blue again, then white furthest in.


Story Archer wrote:
the Queen's Raven wrote:
It almost looks as if all of the blue material would be one big set of fancy robes with a more simple white dress underneath.
Definitely think the cloak and hood are part of a larger set of robes that she wears more like a mantle...

That's a good thought, but it seems quite fitted in the arms and waist for a mantle.

Scarymike wrote:


Potentially attaches at the shoulders, much like Thor.
Thor picture

That would be cool, but it would need the sort of... claspy/buttony things that Thor has at the edges of his cape. Although....

the Queen's Raven wrote:
Well you could always hide some snaps under the robe that would fasten it to the dress. Then carry some nifty little decorations with the same snaps in your bag, and when you remove the cloak cover the snaps with the decorations.
Chris Lambertz wrote:

If I were sewing it, possibly adding some snaps on the the underside of the more stiff mantle area and the inside of the top for the hood? I've pinged our resident cosplay wizard, Erik Keith for some input.

[edit]: D'oh! Ninja-ed!

That's a great idea! Thanks to you both. I guess I assumed if there wasn't a large brooch visible, that it couldn't pin there. I forgot that I could pin it anyway with the snaps :D


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Sissyl wrote:
Well, that is a challenge. To top it off, it seems the pics show different solutions. However, going by the class presentation pic, it seems the cloak is folded at her neck. More, it seems folded or sewn into the back of the neckline of the rest of the dress. It certainly doesn't seem to be only one blue fabric involved. I would guess one light blue in her cloak, one dark blue outer layer of the dress, beneath that a brown one, beneath that a lighter blue again, then white furthest in.

This is how I think it's laid out: 10,000 hours in Photoshop

Shadow Lodge

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After giving your detailed layout a once over, you totally got this.


the Queen's Raven wrote:
After giving your detailed layout a once over, you totally got this.

Thanks! :D


I'd say the cloak attaches at the shoulders under those shoulder pads, the hood (everything that has the rune trim) appears to be a separate piece. Which by the look in the original WAR illustration is also attached at the shoulders in pretty much the same place.

Paizo Employee Quality Assurance Axiomite

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Oh that's going to be awesome! I definitely second Robot's idea to use snaps as needed, those things are as close to magic as you can get without using double sided tape or sock glue. Your plan to make the costume as three separate pieces sounds great. I would personally paint on the white trim and decoration on, mixing various types of paint with fabric paint can result in different finishes and I know theres plenty of tutorials online.

And finally, while it has nothing to do with the cloak, I love this tutorial.


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Erik Keith wrote:

Oh that's going to be awesome! I definitely second Robot's idea to use snaps as needed, those things are as close to magic as you can get without using double sided tape or sock glue. Your plan to make the costume as three separate pieces sounds great. I would personally paint on the white trim and decoration on, mixing various types of paint with fabric paint can result in different finishes and I know theres plenty of tutorials online.

And finally, while it has nothing to do with the cloak, I love this tutorial.

I'm so glad you popped in! I was planning to do the fabric painting for the trim with my boyfriend's help; he just finished painting the gold thorn design for the tabard on his Seltiyel cosplay and I'm excited to learn how to do it myself.

And thanks for the tutorial! I had originally thought of just using "bare feet", but that one looks much better!


extinct_fizz wrote:


This is how I think it's laid out: 10,000 hours in Photoshop

Looks like a good plan to me. You could also treat the white neck line as part of the white underdress (circled in pink on your diagram) if that makes things easier to do. Or you could just sew the white parts of the dress that are peeking out to the blue dress, if you want to cut down on layers.

You could also try painting the trim with bleach, rather than paint. (oblig: "test it on a scrap first" and "don't inhale" warnings)


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extinct_fizz wrote:
the Queen's Raven wrote:
Well you could always hide some snaps under the robe that would fasten it to the dress. Then carry some nifty little decorations with the same snaps in your bag, and when you remove the cloak cover the snaps with the decorations.
Chris Lambertz wrote:
If I were sewing it, possibly adding some snaps on the the underside of the more stiff mantle area and the inside of the top for the hood? I've pinged our resident cosplay wizard, Erik Keith for some input.
That's a great idea! Thanks to you both. I guess I assumed if there wasn't a large brooch visible, that it couldn't pin there. I forgot that I could pin it anyway with the snaps :D
Anzyr wrote:
Probably Magic.

Magic = Magnets

If you hide suitable magnets inside the visible cloth, you will not have "snaps" you have to cover up. And just watch their faces as you merely place the cloth there and it stays. Magic indeed. :-)

If it is in three layers, each layer can have magnets. Since they are all lined up NS:NS:NS, you don't have to all of them on at the same time, or even the same order.

I recommend larger weaker magnets as they can be mage less visible, especially when opening/closing.

/cevah


Although it's not so clear in the images..I would do "turtle broaches" to keep it pinned in place...there almost looks like something along those lines in the images (see the decorative U shaped broaches) ???

Also looks like the "stiffer" shoulder padding is part of the cloak rather than part of the dress...


Nighttree speaks true, it seems that there is a sort of 'rope clasp' that strings from one shoulder to another.


Cevah wrote:

Magic = Magnets

If you hide suitable magnets inside the visible cloth, you will not have "snaps" you have to cover up. And just watch their faces as you merely place the cloth there and it stays. Magic indeed. :-)

If it is in three layers, each layer can have magnets. Since they are all lined up NS:NS:NS, you don't have to all of them on at the same time, or even the same order.

I recommend larger weaker magnets as they can be mage less visible, especially when opening/closing.

/cevah

I will consider this, but I am afraid of the cloak weighing too much for it to work properly. It's a good suggestion though!

nighttree wrote:

Although it's not so clear in the images..I would do "turtle broaches" to keep it pinned in place...there almost looks like something along those lines in the images (see the decorative U shaped broaches) ???

Also looks like the "stiffer" shoulder padding is part of the cloak rather than part of the dress...

Champion_of_the_Blessed wrote:
Nighttree speaks true, it seems that there is a sort of 'rope clasp' that strings from one shoulder to another.

That 'rope' looked like it should be the attachment point to me too! But I don't see how the large golden U would actually 'clasp' to the cloak. Furthermore, the rope hangs much too loosely for how closely the cloak hangs on the shoulders. I do appreciate your idea, though!

As for the "stiffer shoulder padding," I definitely agree that it is part of the cloak.

Grand Lodge

I agree that there are likely embedded shoulder clasps, in the style of Thor's costume in the movies.

I also agree that there are three layers, but that having the white-and-tan innermost layer as just pieces sticking out from the second layer's sleeves will keep the weight, and by extension temperature down to something reasonable. Don't forget that Enora's a halfling, and relative to body size, smaller creatures are stronger, and also lose body heat more quickly. Extra layers is something they can both accommodate and need much more than the modern 5'2"-5'8" woman in the western world.*

*That is, of course assuming something of your personal height that makes the above potentially inapplicable.

Liberty's Edge

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I'm also curious, if this cosplay is going to be to 1:1 scale.
Because if so, I would be honoured if you would reserve a place for me on your dance card.

We don't get enough of normal-sized people represented.
Down with freaky-longshanks-privilege!

Scarab Sages

Get back in your box, Woodsy!

On a more constructive note, have you considered asking the artist himself?

He's really polite, likes feedback, and has shown in the past that he puts quite a lot of thought into his characters' clothing and accessories. He'll probably be able to confirm if those theories above are accurate.

I could pass on a message via Facebook, if you like.


Ms. Pleiades wrote:

I agree that there are likely embedded shoulder clasps, in the style of Thor's costume in the movies.

I also agree that there are three layers, but that having the white-and-tan innermost layer as just pieces sticking out from the second layer's sleeves will keep the weight, and by extension temperature down to something reasonable. Don't forget that Enora's a halfling, and relative to body size, smaller creatures are stronger, and also lose body heat more quickly. Extra layers is something they can both accommodate and need much more than the modern 5'2"-5'8" woman in the western world.*

*That is, of course assuming something of your personal height that makes the above potentially inapplicable.

This is a good idea, and quite practical. Thanks!

Snorter wrote:

Get back in your box, Woodsy!

On a more constructive note, have you considered asking the artist himself?

He's really polite, likes feedback, and has shown in the past that he puts quite a lot of thought into his characters' clothing and accessories. He'll probably be able to confirm if those theories above are accurate.

I could pass on a message via Facebook, if you like.

Sure! Send him a link here? I would absolutely love his input.

I messaged Wes Schneider on his tumblr, but I hadn't gotten a response (which is definitely okay, I understand they're pretty busy folks). I didn't find Wayne Reynolds as an account on paizo.com, so I just decided to crowdsource. (Although it's possible he does have an account and I'm just bad at finding it ^_^;;)

Scarab Sages

I don't think he comes on Paizo often, if at all.

We spoke a few times at comic marts, and Games Workshop stores, when he had the original pages for 2000AD's 'Slaine' with him, and he had an impressive Necromunda gang, with a mobile cathedral tank, from when he drew 'The Redeemer' for Games Workshop.
He may have had to put gaming on the back-burner when his art career really took off.


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extinct_fizz wrote:


That 'rope' looked like it should be the attachment point to me too! But I don't see how the large golden U would actually 'clasp' to the cloak. Furthermore, the rope hangs much too loosely for how closely the cloak hangs on the shoulders. I do appreciate your idea, though!

As for the "stiffer shoulder padding," I definitely agree that it is part of the cloak.

Turtle broaches actually pin to the fabric itself...they usually have one or more decorative chains or ropes that "baubles" are hung upon ;)

Here is some real world example...here

See the oval metal pins holding the straps to the aprons on many of the dresses...those are turtle broaches (shaped like a turtle shell), then there are strands of beads and such that drape across the front :)


Wayne does have a facebook page, and is usually very willing to respond to comments....just FYI


extinct_fizz wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Magic = Magnets

If you hide suitable magnets inside the visible cloth, you will not have "snaps" you have to cover up. And just watch their faces as you merely place the cloth there and it stays. Magic indeed. :-)

If it is in three layers, each layer can have magnets. Since they are all lined up NS:NS:NS, you don't have to all of them on at the same time, or even the same order.

I recommend larger weaker magnets as they can be mage less visible, especially when opening/closing.

/cevah

I will consider this, but I am afraid of the cloak weighing too much for it to work properly. It's a good suggestion though!

As Ms. Pleiades pointed out, a viable cosplay costume must be light and comfortable. Use patters to indicate heavy cloth, rather than heavy cloth. Trim the size to make it breathable. When done, it could well be light enough for magnets. Even if you need a few extra magnets, just savor the look on their faces as you attach/detach the cloak without any clasps.

/cevah

Scarab Sages

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I've found the facebook discussion of the iconic image HERE.

That's probably the best page to ask on.

Grand Lodge

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Dress the Iconics — Enora on fashion goblin.

Liberty's Edge

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Oh, why must these posts taunt me, and tug at my heartstrings, so?

I am forced to view these missives, on my Scry Pad, from a foxhole in Nirmathas (or am I? Cannot say more, remember "Careless yak means a knife in the back!", as our Halfling Free State Prime Minister Millstone Church-hole likes to say).

The care package was much appreciated, and the postcard of Enora has done wonders to raise the lads' morale.
It made me pen a little ditty to our Forces' Sweetheart.

I'm profoundly in love with Enora,
Her eyes, and her cute button nose.
I'm confounded by how much I adore her,
From her head, to her fuzzywuzzy toes.

That's enough from the front for today, and remember, burrow-brothers;
DIG FOR VICTORY!


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Daneel wrote:
Dress the Iconics — Enora on fashion goblin.

*blush*

She's my favorite of the ACG iconics, and I probably gave her the prettiest clothes because of that.


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Sadly, without access to magic, I has to resort to grosgrain ribbon ties for PAX East. hrumph.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rpif?PAX-East-2015-March-6th-8th#14

Contributor

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Sorry, I'll intermittently check the Paizo messageboards depending upon workload. Luckily, a friend notified me about this post. Though it looks like I'm way late to respond. Extinct_Fizz 's breakdown of the costume is correct. Enora's cloak is held on with "Hook and eye". (Threeshades was the closest) The "shoulder flaps" of Enora's cloak has hooks on the inside. The eyelets run down the sides of that white "V". Enora's hair covers any visible signs or stitching of the hooks on the outside of the cloak. I did find photographs of Griffin's fantastic Enora costume, which I'll post on the Wayne Reynolds Artworks Facebook page.


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*blush* *stammer* *boggle* *squee*

Um... Thank you Mr Reynolds, sir.

Also, thank for the insight on the cloak, there are some things that need to be rebuild before I wear it again. So now I can do the attachment better next time around.


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You know, against certain backdrops, her cloak reads as white and gold.


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Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
You know, against certain backdrops, her cloak reads as white and gold.

Actually to me, in the PDF it reads blue and the in the hardcover it reads purple. They're probably more similar than I can perceive, but happen fall on different sides of my blue/purple line.

My heart jumped into my throat when I saw the book version and I was surrounded by blue fabric. :)

Contributor

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Griffid wrote:

*blush* *stammer* *boggle* *squee*

Um... Thank you Mr Reynolds, sir.

Also, thank for the insight on the cloak, there are some things that need to be rebuild before I wear it again. So now I can do the attachment better next time around.

Your welcome Griffid. Sorry I didn't reply to your question sooner. Thanks very much for your interest in my artwork.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
You know, against certain backdrops, her cloak reads as white and gold.

You stop that.

Spoiler:
:)

Wanders off to gush about Seoni and Seltyiel

I don't really have anything specific to say, Mr. Reynolds, other than that I enjoy your work very much (those two are my favorite Iconics), and that I'm looking forward to seeing the Occult Iconics in their full glory.

If you have a moment, is there any Pathfinder (or Dungeon/Dragon) piece that you're especially proud of?

Were the drow/displacer beast or Warduke covers (from Dungeon) your work? I always loved those two.

Thank you! :)

Contributor

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Kalindlara wrote:
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
You know, against certain backdrops, her cloak reads as white and gold.

You stop that.

** spoiler omitted **

Wanders off to gush about Seoni and Seltyiel

I don't really have anything specific to say, Mr. Reynolds, other than that I enjoy your work very much (those two are my favorite Iconics), and that I'm looking forward to seeing the Occult Iconics in their full glory.

If you have a moment, is there any Pathfinder (or Dungeon/Dragon) piece that you're especially proud of?

Were the drow/displacer beast or Warduke covers (from Dungeon) your work? I always loved those two.

Thank you! :)

Thanks for your interest in my artwork Kalindlara. I sincerely appreciate your kind words. The Drow & Displacer Beast cover from Dungeon 119 and Warduke from Dungeon 105 are both my paintings. I hope the new Iconic characters for Occult Adventures will meet with your approval.

Being my own worst critic, it's difficult to say if there's a piece of my work that I'm proud of. I'm too quick to spot my own mistakes. Consequently, the default reply to a question of which is my favourite piece of my own work is - the next one. Because in my head it's perfect.
I suppose there are images which represent turning points or times when something has clicked or I've learnt some thing new. Amongst these are the Sorceress cover from Dungeon 143 and the Pathfinder Basic Box cover (Black dragon vs Ezren & Merisiel)I can still spot my mistakes in these images but they have elements which I was able to take forwards into my preceding paintings.

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