How can anyone stand for it?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hours and hours and hours I put into the mere hope of getting into a PbP game! What a waste of my time! How can anyone stand for such a crummy format of recruitment? Begging for a spot while facing the cruel and public criticisms of other potential players trying to convince the GM of your concept's unworthiness? How awful! Being strung along for weeks, all for naught!

I was friendly, compromised my character concept left and right hoping to make it work, and I did absolutely everything I could to make it easier for the GM--linking all of my feats, magic items, spells, and other rule sources, and am I rewarded for all that effort? NO! Cast aside like unwanted garbage.

I was really looking forward to that game, and I'm wondering now if I even have the heart to start over again any time soon. Even if I did, I would likely just end up in yet another low-level game, or one that doesn't have nearly as good a premise. Even if I did get into a high-level game with a great premise, it will likely be dead inside of a month!

How do you do it? How do you possibly make PbP work on this site under such awful, cut-throat conditions?

Roleplaying should be easy and fun. Not this. Never this.


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I don't do PbP, so I don't have any particular advice on that.

However, if this is the game and character I think you are talking about, I can totally understand you not making the cut. Even 'compromised' that character was pretty far out that. Interesting and dramatic sure. A great character concept for a novel.

Not something that would work well in most games, especially with players that don't already have strong relations with each other.

Except for a very specially themed campaign, I probably wouldn't allow a character like that in one of my games that I play with good friends who all like each other and understand each others weirdness.

I admire your creativity, but I suspect that you would have better success with a more standard concept.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Try creating more reasonable characters, or at least ones not built on clever exploits.


If it make you feel better I am plaining on running a high level campaign this summer and I'll probably invite you.

It will be based on this
, but i'm going to have to plan out the details. High level games take a lot of thought.


Finding a PbP game is like finding a job in a really lousy economy. Lower your standards. Send your resume character to everything just below your new standards.

Scarab Sages

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Ravingdork wrote:
Hours and hours and hours I put into the mere hope of getting into a PbP game! What a waste of my time! How can anyone stand for such a crummy format of recruitment? Begging for a spot while facing the cruel and public criticisms of other potential players trying to convince the GM of your concept's unworthiness? How awful! Being strung along for weeks, all for naught!

For some of us the option is PbP or don't play at all 8(

I've tried and failed to get into dozens of games, but I kept trying. It's taken me two years but my plate is finally full. I have all the games I can handle.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How does one come up with a "standard concept" in a fantasy game? Isn't it all, by definition, very nonstandard?

I would also like to keep this discussion to a general format, rather than focusing on any one game in particular. I've grown increasingly disgruntled with PbP over the last few years due to all the hoops one needs to jump through for very little gain. It's damned hard to get into a PbP game in the first place; too hard. And most simply die out even when you get in! Why is it the way it is, and is there anything we can do to make it easier on everybody?


Standard concept would be two things I think.

One is personality/alignment/back story. The default assumption is that you are going to be a hero. You are going to be someone who the rest of the group can trust and work with without convoluted explanations. Obviously this can vary for a specific game, but in general, don't try to come up with some special snowflake reason for your kleptomaniac cannibal barbarian being part of the group of heroes riding out to save the world.

The second is mechanic. Avoiding exploits. Having a balanced character. Not using many obscure rules, spells or items. Avoiding complexity.

As for your general problem of too much competition for limited games, I would guess the best way to solve this would be for more people to run games. So, if you are interested in mitigating this problem, run a game yourself.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dave Justus wrote:

Standard concept would be two things I think.

One is personality/alignment/back story. The default assumption is that you are going to be a hero. You are going to be someone who the rest of the group can trust and work with without convoluted explanations. Obviously this can vary for a specific game, but in general, don't try to come up with some special snowflake reason for your kleptomaniac cannibal barbarian being part of the group of heroes riding out to save the world.

This I can totally understand.

Dave Justus wrote:
The second is mechanic. Avoiding exploits. Having a balanced character. Not using many obscure rules, spells or items. Avoiding complexity.

It's essentially impossible to determine what is balanced and what is an exploit, what is commonly accepted and what is considered an obscure rule, what is considered simple or complex, when you have no idea who you are going to be playing with.

Dave Justus wrote:
As for your general problem of too much competition for limited games, I would guess the best way to solve this would be for more people to run games. So, if you are interested in mitigating this problem, run a game yourself.

Or we could turn it around. Have the players say what kind of games they are looking for, and have the GMs come to them--kind of like it works in real life sometimes.


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Ravingdork wrote:


Or we could turn it around. Have the players say what kind of games they are looking for, and have the GMs come to them--kind of like it works in real life sometimes.

There are people who try that - and a very few may actually succeed. If their request is fairly standard like wanting to play in an AP or other particular modules, I imagine they can have fairly decent success. But I also expect that the further from the mean the player wants the game to be, the less likely he is to find a willing GM.


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I don't think it is at all impossible to make choices that are simpler rather than more complex in character creation. Obviously getting 100% match with an unknown group is unlikely, but you can certainly consciously make choices not to ride the the limits. Especially since you don't know what is commonly accepted erring on the side of caution is reasonable.

If the problem is not enough players for limited games, it is unreasonable to expect GMs to compete for players. Sometimes suppliers do compete for a share of limited demand, but that isn't the situation you are describing.

Basically in economic term, you are stating the price is too high. I am saying the price is high because their is much less supply than their is demand (apparently even at the current price.) If the demand is going to remain steady (as it seems to be) then the only way to reduce the price is to increase the supply.

Well, that or government mandated price controls, but those usually don't' work out well at all.


Is there a standing character emporium where you as a gm can go and look for characters you might like (like an inn)? I've only done pbp where you see game ads, then scramble to make a charcter as fast as you can that fits.

If there was a standing character emporium, you might be able to set up a random queue for one offs.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now that's a fine idea downlobot!


Hooray! I don't know how to internet so i'm afraid i couldn't build it, but as an addendum - if you've got people randomly queuing for one offs (in addition to the create your own game and invite thing), and a one off might be ~a pfs scenario size, you could put in a 'if you queue to play, you queue to gm occasionally' clause. That would even out supply and demand to just get people playing - some people might like it and others will treat it like jury duty (i did my duty last year! I'm out!).

But again, i don't know how to internet.


One (fairly obvious) observation I have from a year of pbp gaming is the format is SLOW which is a blessing and a curse. You have the luxury of time to consider your posts and to RP in more depth. On the other hand its hard to keep momentum going, in fact the vast majority of games fail after 2-3 weeks. If you want instant gratification the format is not for you. That said I prefer faster paced games, 3+ post per player per day. Even then doing an AP will take a long time to complete (over a year).

Recruitment threads are kind of harsh, you're often left reading the tea leaves when it comes to working out what the GMs expectations are. Experienced GMs tend to be more forthright about this which helps a lot. In most recruitment threads highly specialized characters or ones with extreme ability scores tend to be discounted even if the back story is awesome.

Speaking of back stories, a couple of paragraphs is plenty. There are far too many novellas to wade through in the typical recruitment thread. A common mistake is for submissions to not give a physical description or a good idea of the characters personality.

Still it's worth playing in ultimately doomed games for the practice and to meet other players. You never know, you may get invited to a private game or two (which is really cool if it happens)...


Ravingdork wrote:

How does one come up with a "standard concept" in a fantasy game? Isn't it all, by definition, very nonstandard?

I would also like to keep this discussion to a general format, rather than focusing on any one game in particular. I've grown increasingly disgruntled with PbP over the last few years due to all the hoops one needs to jump through for very little gain. It's damned hard to get into a PbP game in the first place; too hard. And most simply die out even when you get in! Why is it the way it is, and is there anything we can do to make it easier on everybody?

Many many many people have much more trouble than they expect in dealing with this format. Imagine I give you a book series to read. I don't tell you more than the barest essentials of what genre the book is in. Then I only give you a single paragraph of the book to read each day. You will probably have a difficult time staying enthused about the book.

But now I'm going to change it. Now I want you to write a book series. with 6 other people. You don't know the other people and they might very well be horrible authors and they might be trying to write a completely different book than you. Also each of you is only allowed to write a couple sentences each day. The project is expected to take several years to complete. You just might find it difficult to be dedicated enough to keep it going every day for several years.

I tried for quite a while. I finally got in a few.
One was very different from the way it was advertised. Primarily long internal monologues full of teenage angst. GM very actively encouraged love hate relationships within the party. Not my type of game.
Another was just too slow. Even the GM was only posting about thrice a week and some of the players only once a week. Even then the GM ignored about half of what the players posted and would never answer questions.
The last just died out after a few weeks. I'm not sure what happened, but suddenly there were only a couple of us posting to try and keep it going.
I finally gave up.

I still do PbP, but only PFS scenarios. They are short enough that it keeps everyone's interest since there is an end goal in sight. I would imagine that if someone starts one for a short-ish module it might also do well for some of the same reasons.

But nearly all the AP's or long campaigns seem to languish shortly after starting.

I know PFS isn't everyone's preferred style of gaming, but almost every scenario is finished in a reasonable period of time. Some even quite quickly with everyone posting 3-4 times a day.

The other way I can see it working is if you know everyone in RL not just anonymous screen names. If some friends organize something, you can probably count on them knowing what kinds of games they like and whether the GM is any good. And if I can call up Jyme "Hey dufus we're all waiting on you to open the door, so log on already!"


Silas Hawkwinter wrote:

Recruitment threads are kind of harsh, you're often left reading the tea leaves when it comes to working out what the GMs expectations are. Experienced GMs tend to be more forthright about this which helps a lot. In most recruitment threads highly specialized characters or ones with extreme ability scores tend to be discounted even if the back story is awesome.

Speaking of back stories, a couple of paragraphs is plenty. There are far too many novellas to wade through in the typical recruitment thread. A common mistake is for submissions to not give a physical description or a good idea of the characters personality.

Still it's worth playing in ultimately doomed games for the practice and to meet other players. You never know, you may get invited to a private game or two (which is really cool if it happens)...

I'm certainly no expert but this all looks like good advice right here.


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Have you guys and girls considered Roll20? https://app.roll20.net/home

It's a virtual table top plus a meeting spot for people looking for games. Mind you, the competition for GMs is amazing - there's probably 20 or more players looking for a game for each GM considering running anything. But it's another option, you know?


Ravingdork wrote:

...

Dave Justus wrote:
The second is mechanic. Avoiding exploits. Having a balanced character. Not using many obscure rules, spells or items. Avoiding complexity.
It's essentially impossible to determine what is balanced and what is an exploit, what is commonly accepted and what is considered an obscure rule, what is considered simple or complex, when you have no idea who you are going to be playing with. ...

Agree to a certain extent. No you don't know exactly what everyone wants/expects. But most players can realize "ok I've got a higher spell DC than any other character I've seen in play because of this exact combination of traits, feats, whatever... This just might be considered an odd exploit build."

There was this weird juggling act of trying to make a unique PC but not so weird as to turn people off. That is both mechanics and fluff wise.

Many of the PbP GM's seemed to be much more concerned with the fluff of your PC rather than the actual build. Many don't seem to require or bother with builds until long after PC's are accepted into the game. For them the backstory, personality, and appearance are the deciding factors. The build comes later.

I can't do it that way. I almost always have to build the mechanics, then shape the fluff around that. It is the way my mind works. It also makes it so I can't instantly generate a new character for each campaign.
So I built 3 or 4 characters that I liked with a general backstory, personality, and appearance. Then I would adjust that slightly for submission to many PbP games. That worked best for me and got me into the 3 games I mentioned above.

Note the GM's seem to like a backstory with a challenge that you didn't overcome and does not tie off all the potential plot hooks. I got kicked out of the church, so now I'm chasing the guy that framed me across the continent. I got exiled from my tribe, and I'm trying to find where my sister is that was sold into slavery. Etc...

Edit:
I will also mention, some types of PC's just don't work well in RPG's and work much worse in PbP games without a huge amount of effort on the part of the player. Like the anti-social misfit, or quiet stoic type. Yes, it works well in novel where the author can keep things going and tell you what the characters are thinking. But in a PbP the monosyllabic responses come across as not really into playing the game. An outgoing verbose brash personality works much better.


Makarion wrote:

Have you guys and girls considered Roll20? https://app.roll20.net/home

It's a virtual table top plus a meeting spot for people looking for games. Mind you, the competition for GMs is amazing - there's probably 20 or more players looking for a game for each GM considering running anything. But it's another option, you know?

Currently my computer and internet connection are not up to the task. I am hoping to correct that within the year.


ElterAgo wrote:


There was this weird juggling act of trying to make a unique PC but not so weird as to turn people off. That is both mechanics and fluff wise.

This. Also there's one or two players (who shall go nameless) that I often see in recruiting threads with very specific and very peculiar characters (fluff wise). Big turnoff.


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Silas Hawkwinter wrote:
ElterAgo wrote:


There was this weird juggling act of trying to make a unique PC but not so weird as to turn people off. That is both mechanics and fluff wise.
This. Also there's one or two players (who shall go nameless) that I often see in recruiting threads with very specific and very peculiar characters (fluff wise). Big turnoff.

Are words "loli" and "goth" mentioned?


I find this kinda... not too surprising, since I've gotten into about 50% of the games I've tried to get into. I say it's a numbers game: try for all the games you're interested, and take what you can get. There is no guaranteed way to get into a game.

I generally stuck to games that started at level 1, and I have the advantage of not having played much yet so I can be happy with more predictable concepts than you may enjoy.

Was this the game you where hoping to play Hama though? Because that... is a very difficult thing to work with. In any case, good luck Ravingdork.


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Ravingdork wrote:

Hours and hours and hours I put into the mere hope of getting into a PbP game! What a waste of my time! How can anyone stand for such a crummy format of recruitment? Begging for a spot while facing the cruel and public criticisms of other potential players trying to convince the GM of your concept's unworthiness? How awful! Being strung along for weeks, all for naught!

I was friendly, compromised my character concept left and right hoping to make it work, and I did absolutely everything I could to make it easier for the GM--linking all of my feats, magic items, spells, and other rule sources, and am I rewarded for all that effort? NO! Cast aside like unwanted garbage.

I was really looking forward to that game, and I'm wondering now if I even have the heart to start over again any time soon. Even if I did, I would likely just end up in yet another low-level game, or one that doesn't have nearly as good a premise. Even if I did get into a high-level game with a great premise, it will likely be dead inside of a month!

How do you do it? How do you possibly make PbP work on this site under such awful, cut-throat conditions?

Roleplaying should be easy and fun. Not this. Never this.

Sounds a lot like my love life really.


Dunno what to tell you RD. I have joined a total of 5 PbP's to date, and each one had crashed and burned within a month. Several of those included concept i greatly enjoyed getting the chance to play. I now don't think it's worth my time, and just play in person. I know not everyone has that option, and i wish i had a good answer for you.

The 'Inn' idea mentioned above might not be horrible, or even useful if the general overview concept wasn't tied to a certain level. "hey Nasty McStabber, fugitive Robin Hood. I like your premise, want to join my level 7 game yadda yadda?"

Admittedly i don't see that becoming a new standard, but... maybe a step up?


I have a couple of games here that have been running for a couple of years.

I don't run anyone away, no matter how many apply, and you know what

I usually end up with three maybe four players who stick it out.

So, I'm not sure what it is you are doing that isn't working for you, but I think I can guarantee it is not the typical situation.

Edit - also, the problem I see with an "Inn" concept is that nobody wants to scroll back through 365 posts to find a character they like, when the other method of recruitment works well in most cases.

Shadow Lodge

Can you show us the character?

I haven't played PbP before, and my first guess would've been that it was just a numbers game, but this sounds like a pretty specific situation (so let's see specifics).


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I don't do pbp anymore, for many reasons. Last one was back in 2004, and haven't touched it since. The biggest reason: They are too slow. At the start, it might move pretty well, getting about 3-5 posts per person for about a week. Then you get 2 at most per day, then it continues to fall until the game dies. So many games die after 1-2 months, is my experience.

I prefer in-person or virtual table top. I use roll20.net for games. Sure, doing it this way is only once per week typically, for 3-5 hours per session. But this has a benefit over pbp: Schedule. There's a set time to get together that is agreed upon, as well as a set place (roll20.net or other for VTT). People are more likely to continue something when there's a set schedule.

Doing it over the internet isn't without its drawbacks. Many times players will flake and not show up, or the DM does the same, which kills the game typically. The biggest drawback to VTT is you aren't in the same physical place and thus can't keep an eye on the others in the group. We all know how bad the internet is for attention span. You don't know if they are paying attention or watching videos on Youtube or playing video games. Playing an AP suffers from this as there could be a chance one of the players is cheating and looking through the AP or looking up maps for the dungeons and stats for the monsters.

I personally would rather not play than do pbp, but that's me. How to make pbp better? I honestly couldn't say. With VTT, you still have the whole thing of competing with others to fill in a slot for the game and hoping you are picked. The sad truth is there are more people who would rather play than DM, thus more competition.


Makarion wrote:
Have you guys and girls considered Roll20? https://app.roll20.net/home

I'll admit that this is where I go when I am first looking for a game, but PbP still has its occasional uses. VTT play inherently limits the player pool because you all need to be available at the same time. As someone who has tried organizing VTT play among a group of friends, things get really tricky when you start working trans-pacific. That's not a big issue with something like Pathfinder or D&D 5e, which have massive player bases, but it can be very troublesome with games that are more niche (everything else).

I've also found PbP to be a good way to get to know the ropes of a new system. I won't touch it with a 10 ft. pole when I know the system, but that pace is fine when you're still trying to learn the basics.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

All online recruitment campaigns have like an 80% chance to crumple. With VTT, at least they die fast. You can tell after 1-2 sessions. With PbP, it's a slow death that can drag on for a while, as the nature of the gameplay is inherently slow.

I've played in a few PbPs on this site though, and I didn't experience the cutthroat conditions you describe. Yes, there were more applicants than slots (like 15 players for 5 slots), but no one tried to shoot down my concept, or another candidate's. I'm sorry you experienced that. It's an ugly way to behave, and if those players are selected, you probably don't want to play with them anyway, so it's a time-saver at least.

----

As for the case of more players than DMs? Yeah, that's a constant supply-demand problem. Playing is a far smaller time commitment than DMing. All you do is commit to playing, which is the fun part. DMs have to do all sorts of prep work, and try to make each session have something for everyone. Making maps, making NPCs, it's all work. Sometime it's fun when you have inspiration. Sometimes you gotta fake it. But nonetheless, you have to have something ready for the group every session. It's basically a job, but you don't get paid (though on TheTangledWeb recruitment forums, some DMs do charge for their work). And sometimes it's thankless.

How do you fix it? Get rid of the timesinks. How? I don't know. These are the timesinks as I see them:

Cartography: Making a decent looking map takes a lot of time. I wish it didn't. Maptools is pretty okay, but I spend a lot of time looking for proper background tokens, messing around with layers, resizing/rotating things, etc. I hate this part.

Making enemies: I play with players that have system mastery. I don't like just recognizing monsters and knowing their abilities (either as a player, or as a GM). But modifying monsters requires a lot of care. Making NPC sheets also takes a lot of time. I can pour hours into a PC and have fun, because I'll be playing him session after session. Many NPCs (that require a sheet) show up in one combat and die. But it still takes hours to craft their sheets (unless you just take a cookie-cutter build).

Modules and fancy tools exist, but they cost money. The DM is the last person that should be covering that charge in my opinion, but it usually falls to him. But players also don't want to cover it unless they know the DM well, because what if the game falls apart after a session or two?


I'd love it (as a GM and a player) if there was a way to see when a player's posting times were (I'm in Australia, and have joined active games where there are ten or so posts, then I post first thing in the morning and there are no more posts till I go to bed, then BAM 10 more. I've actually taken to bringing this up with GMs looking for a high post rate when I'm applying.

I'd also love to know what people's posting frequency or sticktoitiveness is. Maybe just a review system? "Ravingdork is rated 4.9! I should definitely get him!"


Yeah... maybe not. The idea is not a strange one. However, what if it's "Harakani has been in six now defunct games and that's it, no reviews" instead?


actually, can't you click on the profile, and then take a look at the bottom to see what campaigns have been archived to see how many games a poster has been in?

no wait, I see you click on the campaign tab on their profile and...

Sissyl (not any of her aliases) has been in one inactive campaign


Harakani wrote:

I'd love it (as a GM and a player) if there was a way to see when a player's posting times were (I'm in Australia, and have joined active games where there are ten or so posts, then I post first thing in the morning and there are no more posts till I go to bed, then BAM 10 more. I've actually taken to bringing this up with GMs looking for a high post rate when I'm applying.

I'd also love to know what people's posting frequency or sticktoitiveness is. Maybe just a review system? "Ravingdork is rated 4.9! I should definitely get him!"

I've been working on a system like this for quite some time now. If you're in a situation where you'd like to know these things about a potential DM or player, shoot me a PM and I can probably assist.


Huh. Over the past few years, I've applied to ten PbPs, and was accepted into eight of them. Two are still actively running. Most fizzled out after a few months.

I always tailor my entry for the campaign being offered. I usually rely almost exclusively on options from the Core Rulebook--that way GMs who don't own every book and supplement will be familiar with what my character can do. I go for reasonably strong concepts that aren't gimicky. I don't min/max. I try to avoid corner-case builds, mixing archetypes, and one-trick-pony characters.

I link everything I can to the PRD or to the Archives of Nethys. I always write up an interesting backstory complete with a few open hooks for the GM to use. I also make a character that plays well with others or is actively hoping to find a surrogate family (i.e. a band of adventurers).

And I try very hard to avoid the "parents were killed by X, which is why I hate X" backstory. If I can do it, I try to give the character a happy and healthy backstory. I also usually write a short vignette about something important in the character's backstory.

A good GM is also going to look at each submitters' PbP history, and the player's general reputation on the boards. I haven't started a PbP (yet), but I'd probably avoid accepting players who have a reputation as being argumentative on the regular boards. I'd probably also avoid accepting a player with no history.


Your background story has a LOT to do with you getting in, but it is no guarantee. I don't know about the mechanics of your characters for PBP, but RAI is more important the RAW, and I know your group likes to go by RAW.

Also when trying to get into a game check the GM's posting consistency on the boards if you are worried about the game dying out. If it is someone who has been here for a long time then they are likely to stay around.

Certain games will also be much more popular than others, meaning more competition.

PS: You should list what your character brings mechanically to the party. Yes, this can work against you, but if you know there are 9 melee DPR types, 5 arcane casters, 7 skill monkeys, and only 2 divine casters, then be sure to mention your divine abilities if that is the route you went.


I do this because it is my only option to play pathfinder, aside possibly pfs, witch i avoid like the plague.


wraithstrike wrote:


PS: You should list what your character brings mechanically to the party. Yes, this can work against you, but if you know there are 9 melee DPR types, 5 arcane casters, 7 skill monkeys, and only 2 divine casters, then be sure to mention your divine abilities if that is the route you went.

Yeah playing a cleric is often a good bet since most players don't want to be the "heal bot" (clerics are way more than that, although they can be a bit bland).

Scarab Sages

You know Ravingdork, I've always enjoyed your posts, and feel your frustration. I can't make any promises, but I enjoy running long-term PBPs. My current one, Shattered Star, has been running for over a year now with regular daily activity. It's full up at the moment, and I have no idea when that will change, but if a space ever opens up I'll be sure to let you know. :)

Small consolation, I'm sure, but I hope it's something.


RD, I often enjoy reading your ideas and find the creative thinking and resourceful problem solving to be most impressive.

I don't have any involvement in PbP games, but I can say that you'd be welcome in the in-person games that I run. (Although that would require being in NE Ohio, a turn of circumstance some would find quite unfortunate :P) I miss having a player that makes me think on my feet, and comes up with ideas to which my immediate response is an expression of confusion and "what?".


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Unfortunately there's way more people wanting to play PBPs here than there are GMs willing and able to run them. In any such situation, the competition will get pretty intense.


What is pbp? Ive run home games and games on fantasy grounds, would i have a problem gming something like this? If someone could pm some info, ill see if after some time i could get one started (no promises but ill link here if yay or nay).


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Have you read Doomed Hero's and Painlord's excellent guides to PbP?

It's really hard to get into games when you're new: frankly, largely a matter of luck. Once you're in a few, though, you can start building a network: players and DMs with whom you click well and have similar gaming styles. When vacancies open up in other games they're in, they're likely to suggest you to fill them. When they decide to start new games, they'll invite you to join.

As far as games likely to last, vet your potential GM. How long has he/she been on the boards? How many other campaigns has he/she involved in? Has he/she ever just abandoned a previous campaign without explanation? Does the recruitment thread start out with a statement like, "I've never GMed a PbP game before, but how hard can it be?"


Hm, i just had another thought. The "run this AP, and the more common freeform ones tend to have the highest popularity/biggest competition for. Perhaps target the more niche recruitments, and make a concept tailored for those. Should have a much lighter degree of competition perhaps.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

From back when I was an active PbPer, I can certainly sympathize. Given that I've led PbPs too, let's consider the situation of the GMs. Usually, they are overbooked at least three times over.

That means a two thirds of the applicants will be disappointed. Whichever way you finally slice it. And not just bottom of the barrel single line applicants. You have to shoot down excellent people just because the party couldn't have a third rogue, no matter what else. Seriously, I have rolled dice for not being able to decide.

Usually it falls to 1/3rd being relatively easy to cut. For whatever reason, they are are characters I'd rather not play with. So, 30% waste their effort because of me. Does that make me happy? Not at all, but it's a fact of life. Usually I needed to go from 20 to maximum 7.

The ones remaining were usually not cheap to come by. I am a backstory whore ;). So yes, your investment buys you consideration. But not necessarily a slot. Then I need to build something resembling a party. And often my darlings just won'T fit into the dynamic, and get lost.

So what does that mean? Well, In essence it means every applicant is in a harsh, competitive position. More like than not you game ends before the first IC post. But if you do make it into the game, more like than not, it ends less than a month afterwards because of reasons ;).

Does that mean not playing in PbPs? No. It means making the writing and imagining as enjoyable as possible. If making characters is a chore to you, you will be frustrated. If its fun, you have fun - just less than you might have had.


Joana wrote:
Once you're in a few, though, you can start building a network: players and DMs with whom you click well and have similar gaming styles. When vacancies open up in other games they're in, they're likely to suggest you to fill them. When they decide to start new games, they'll invite you to join.

As a slight addition to what Joana's said - I'd note that all four of the characters selected in the recruitment that RD is referencing are currently playing with the DM in at least one or more other PbPs already.

It's something that I do as well - as a DM you're more likely to pick what you know over something you don't.


It looks very fun and interesting, but sadly this is something i see myself doing with close friends, mainly because my grammar and spelling are nowhere near up to par.


Redneckdevil wrote:
... mainly because my grammar and spelling are nowhere near up to par.

Many of us are in the same boat. I do almost all of my typing in a document processor like MS Word. It can correct both grammar and spelling most of the time. Then I give it the PbP formatting. And finally I copy and paste it into the thread.

it only takes a few moments longer and is usually much better quality.

The Exchange

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The best way to get to play in a PbP is to run one.

First off, it is just fun.

Second, you get to know what is actually involved in running a PbP as a DM - it is a responsibility to ensure that you have the time to put aside to keep up the momentum of the game. You have to keep up the posting rate, since the main reason for a PbP to collapse is because the DM underestimated the amount of work and bails. And you need to keep everyone else posting too - a lot of people do lots of posts, but some don't and with those you have to perform the ugly but necessary task of getting them to raise their game or suggesting they leave. So you get to understand what the DM is actually doing and what their priorities might be.

Thirdly, you get a reputation in the starry world of PbP. This makes it a lot easier to get into a PbP as a player when people know of you. I don't try to get into a PbP as a player that often, and I don't last long when I do since in the end I prefer to DM, but I have never actually failed to get into a PbP on these boards. But I've also been running PbPs here since 2008.

Fourthly, in the end, if you can't maybe run a single PbP (which isn't a masive time sink, especially when you consider the lack of speed) or are intimidated by the prospect thereof, you maybe aren't cut out to put the time aside for a few months or years to play PbP as a player.

As to what to do to catch the eye of an imperious PbP DM - not sure. Character class mechanics largely pass me by. I'm interested in someone who can sling together a coherent post, hopefully with a little bit of flair for writing, so I, as the DM, can be entertatined by their writing as well as me entertaining them with mine. I'm not even really that massively interested in backstory as such, but the way the backstory is written will give me an insight into the way the player will write in general. But for all I know I roll somewhat differently to other DMs.

I tend to play with a relatively small coterie of people who I have played PbP here with before, as I know they are reliable and make good posts. Others have lurked in the discussion threads, and when a space came up I advertised there first - and you have the benefit that a known lurker is not a totally unknown quantity to the DM. Otherwise, it's simply first come, first served - I don't do anything like auditions, that is too much like b0llocks for me.

Which is why it is important to build a network, and the best way to do that is to run a PbP.


Ravingdork wrote:
How do you do it? How do you possibly make PbP work on this site under such awful, cut-throat conditions?

Only playing in games I'm personally invited to, rather than the rigamarole of recruitments.

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