+1 to curiousity about swarms, but I feel like us being able to take AOE options is somewhat of a solution, especially since not all elements (earth, TK with some items) feel like they'd work on a swarm.
Honestly, I don't see any issue with Earth--I could see a huge hand made of earth just slapping down a swarm, or churning earth on the ground smashing them together. Earth seems more than capable. The only ones that make little sense, to me at least, is cold (it's not ice, so, I have trouble picturing what this is in general) and TK depending on the item. Since I have a clear image in my head of 5 out of 7 working well against swarms, I would advocate for treating Kinetic Blasts like rays--they are weaponlike spells that deal full damage to swarms. It would slightly increase versatility, too.
Hey Mark? Any chance of updating the first post with relevant FAQs and strongly considered changes, just for new people? I feel like we've got way too much information to remember spread over way too large an area to track it down. Solidifying this will help new and old alike.
I don't think this is going to happen. The playtest ends in two days. At that point, we'll either get a summary post of all the intended changes or a second round playtest document.
How visible are the blasts? How much movement does a blast require? These 2 questions came up in the last game I played with an Aerokineticist and I was trying to be inconspicuous while barraging the enemy with Wind Blasts. What would the enemies be seeing?
2nd game finished, and this time around, I enjoyed myself much more. Felt like I had nearly twice as many Talents (thanks to taking the feat a couple of times), and my offense was actually hitting this time around. I burned a couple of times, and even got to Death's door (though not from burning, just not staying out of combat as intended).
Overall, I'm completely enamoured by the class, and until the book comes out and lets me "fix" my character, I'll continue playing the Telekinetic Sylph. :) The only real problem I have is the skills... despite a 14 Intelligence, I really only have 4 skills due to all 4 being so important to my character as the thief-ish type. I understand wanting to limit skills, but this is too limiting, in my opinion.
The only other (not as serious) problem was that you really need to take certain Talents and use them well to do much. In particular the Extended Range and Kinetic Cover (at least as a TK). I'm still of the opinion that, at least for TK's, "Light Touch" should be a free Talent at 1st level, and that 1 Infusion and 1 Other should be picked at 1st level, instead of the 7th and 15th level Talents.
Anyhows, loved it. I'm definitely a permanent TK. :)
I'd be curious for mono builds if balancing the defenses around only being able to have one active at a time (or making it stronger if only one is active) would be easier. Because for 1 extra talent, you get a whole extra layer of defense. Mono can't keep up with that currently.Honestly the majority of two/three element builds I'm seeing don't even take the second defense. I'm considering it for a Magmablaster I'm toying around with, but I'm thinking I'm going to hold off on finalizing that character until the full book comes out because the talents are really not in her favor right now. But for my Water/Air build, the second defense never even crossed my mind-- and he's built to fight in such a way that Air's defense is solid for him. He just doesn't have talent space until too late for it to matter.
I don't think taking a second defense is really that great of a choice. If my second element was water and my primary wasn't fire, yeah, I would probably take the defense. If I was Earth or Fire and my second element was the other, again, it would be a good choice. I would love to get Force Ward with any non-fire element, but there is no way I would take Aether as my second element because it screws your nova capabilities by having no worthwhile composite blast option. Air's defense is just ok, so it's definitely not worth taking for anyone's second.
So, unless you're dipping into water or running a magma build, I don't think it's worth a precious talent on.
Have we as a group discussed Kinetic healing yet?
"With a touch, you can heal a willing living creature for an amount
equal to your kinetic blast’s damage. Instead of paying the burn
cost, you can cause the recipient to take 1 point of burn. If
you choose to do so, the recipient suffers 1 point of nonlethal
damage per Hit Die he possesses that cannot be recovered by
any means until he takes a full night’s rest."
Can't you just not opt to give your ally the burn and gather elements to mitigate the one burn on yourself?
Is this infinite healing?
Kinetic Healing was mentioned in the first dozen posts or so and that's what led to the clarification that a move action can only reduce the Burn cost of blasts. It's been errata'd in the first post.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay. Well, that is pretty useless then. Maybe it would be worth it if it removed diseases, ability damage, and poisons but there are a trillion and one ways to get better and less resource intensive healing than that. "Trap option" I want to say.
I also only now realize that none of the utility powers have form or substance keywords. Huh. I was not keeping my head on a swivel there.
I suppose end of the day healing is a thing. Yeah. I am still not sure if it is worth taking the talent. If there is any other kind of healer in the party, they could just burn their remaining spells and channel energy and what-not. That is almost always going to be more than enough and they don't have to give up a whole level's worth of "spells" to learn one healing ability.
Maybe it has its uses and the Aether kineticist has few good talents past the handful of telekinesis ones, but I find it pretty unimpressive.
My opinion on what defensive abilities for each element should look like(as I mentioned last time I posted, haven't actually playtested this class yet, going by feel here).
Water: YOU MUST FLOW LIKE A RIVER, BOB AND WEAVE, all that jazz.
Earth: I AM AS THE UNMOVEABLE MOUNTAIN, I SHALL OUTLAST YOUR STRIKES
Air: WHOOP WHOOP, CAN'T HIT BECAUSE IM OVER HERE, NOW IM OVER HERE, AND NOW IM HERE. IM NOT MAKING YOU FRUSTRATED AM I?
Fire: DEFENSE IS FOR SCRUBS, IM A GLASS CANNON BUT MY BURNING FURY WILL DESTROY YOU BEFORE YOU CAN DESTROY ME, some joke about being different because it's a chemical reaction and not an element
Aether: SOMETHING...Aethery. I'll admit I've never been clear on what Aether is, so I'll leave it at that.
Okay. Well, that is pretty useless then. Maybe it would be worth it if it removed diseases, ability damage, and poisons but there are a trillion and one ways to get better and less resource intensive healing than that. "Trap option" I want to say.
First, Mark hinted at a Kinetic Healer focused archetype that got Paladin Mercies to use with Kinetic Healing.
Second, it's hardly a trap now. Kinetic Healer is a resource extender. Imagine this scenario: the party has gone through several encounters, and everyone is hurt. The casters have a little bit of healing left, but if they use it, they're going to have to stop and rest anyway because they'd be out of spells.
Kineticist: "Hey, level 5 party. We can actually push on if you like. Would you accept 5 nonlethal damage that won't heal until we sleep overnight in exchange for around 18 more HP or so, so that we can keep going? Oh, you would because that's a fantastic trade which heals on average close to 1/2 of your total HP? That's what I thought, let's press on!"
Or how about this scenario: the party is in trouble and the healer (if you even have one) was first down.
Kineticist: "Hey, level 7 healer, would you trade 7 nonlethal damage for healing close to 25 HP on average? Oh, you would so we don't TPK? Sounds great."
Seriously, the Burn is not very bad. Some people in this thread really hate it, but it's not really a big deal. This ability heals a lot of health. Blast damage will always be something like 3 times higher than the Burn you are asked to accept. It's not totally clear, but you might even be able to Empower it.
It totally extends the adventuring day. You will undoubtedly be able to take on an extra encounter each day, and you'll start every new day at full HP. Yes, it is probably unnecessary in a party with the kind of super healers I play (Oracles of Life or Hospitaler Paladins), but it's great for the majority of parties I've seen which contain no cleric and rely mostly on Inquisitors, Bards, Alchemists, melee Oracles that are reluctant to use their spells on Cures, or sometimes just UMDed wands of CLW.
I love Kinetic Healer, and personally wish knew the details of the archetype now so I could play one in my upcoming game that should be hitting the teens by August.
Aether is another name for ether or quintessence, was thought to be what fills the outer part of the terrestrial sphere or what heaven was made of. Also thought of as the fifth element or what the gods breathed like mortals breathing air.
I'm worried that the nova option here is too easy to lean on. I made a 15th level character, and I see that with Composite Specialization, and Ice Blast, the damage is at 8d6+16+8d6+8 for what I've built. I can do this every turn for one burn. I have 213 HP, so I can take 14 burn before being knocked unconscious at 15. I can do this for four battles of three rounds apiece, and still have some HP to spare for getting hit . With Gather Elements, I can do this attack at 120 feet, which seems like relative safety. At level 15 I suspect this is not total safety, but to be fair, I haven't had a chance to play this in practice. Hopefully someone else sees what I'm getting at, though. The 'go nova' option burns you out (no pun intended), but is a significant DPS source at high level once the burn cost is lowered.
You can actually just use that move action to ignore the 1 point of Burn at 15th+.
Oh, and unless you have 32 Con, you can't take 14 Burn--your cap is 3+Con mod.
And for reference, 16d6+24 averages 80 damage. Pretty good. A regular fighter with a similar Strength score (apparently +8?...you must have forgotten Feel the Burn), Power Attack, and a +5 Greatsword swings 3 times for 2d6+32 (39 average--potentially up to 117 for all three hits). That's with a single feat and weapon's worth of investment and at zero cost. So, uh, the nova capability is kind of weak at the moment. The good news is that Mark knows this and will be raising damage!
I'm worried that the nova option here is too easy to lean on. I made a 15th level character, and I see that with Composite Specialization, and Ice Blast, the damage is at 8d6+16+8d6+8 for what I've built. I can do this every turn for one burn. I have 213 HP, so I can take 14 burn before being knocked unconscious at 15. I can do this for four battles of three rounds apiece, and still have some HP to spare for getting hit . With Gather Elements, I can do this attack at 120 feet, which seems like relative safety. At level 15 I suspect this is not total safety, but to be fair, I haven't had a chance to play this in practice. Hopefully someone else sees what I'm getting at, though. The 'go nova' option burns you out (no pun intended), but is a significant DPS source at high level once the burn cost is lowered.You can actually just use that move action to ignore the 1 point of Burn at 15th+.
Oh, and unless you have 32 Con, you can't take 14 Burn--your cap is 3+Con mod.
And for reference, 16d6+24 averages 80 damage. Pretty good. A regular fighter with a similar Strength score (apparently +8?...you must have forgotten Feel the Burn), Power Attack, and a +5 Greatsword swings 3 times for 2d6+32 (39 average--potentially up to 117 for all three hits). That's with a single feat and weapon's worth of investment and at zero cost. So, uh, the nova capability is kind of weak at the moment. The good news is that Mark knows this and will be raising damage!
Plus by the time you hit level 15, damage tends to be the least of your worries once monsters/PCs start being able to throw Save or Die/Lose/Suck spells every combat.
It sounds cool, but also, I would not count on it working. It requires that you shift your grip on your weapon. Where's your flame blast's grip?
I gotta admit that sounds really cool. Controlling your flame to buffet someone, laser beam someone, or flame slice themI just realized, Weapon Versatility works with Kinetic Blast.
Maybe, Pyro has a chance.
Interesting! Also, the feat doesn't specify your hand's grip, so one could presume the kineticist is adjusting their mental grip. ;)
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
When wielding a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can shift your grip as a swift action so that your weapon deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage instead of the damage type normally dealt by that weapon. You may switch back to the weapon's normal damage type or another damage type as a swift action.
Emphasis mine. You never wield your kinetic blast. You also can't switch grips on it. It is also not actually a weapon, it is a weaponlike spell like ability, just like a ray. There is just no way at all that this works.
Kinetic Blade is complicated and is probably getting a full rewrite.
|
When wielding a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can shift your grip as a swift action so that your weapon deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage instead of the damage type normally dealt by that weapon. You may switch back to the weapon's normal damage type or another damage type as a swift action.Emphasis mine. You never wield your kinetic blast. You also can't switch grips on it. It is also not actually a weapon, it is a weaponlike spell like ability, just like a ray. There is just no way at all that this works.
That is a funny place, in the rules.
"Wielding", can mean many things.
At least 3, by my count (currently in use, simply held but capable of using, and the previous but only with intent to use).
We never did get a FAQ for that.
|
|
I agree with the logic, though I can't necessarily name a situation where it would apply. It would probably be cleaner to FAQ this corner case than to rule the term wielding in general.
I agree.
Situations regarding wielding should be handled on a case, by case, basis.
This would have the least amount of negative impact.
Got Herolab support. Building a Kineticist for PFS.
Should I ask for build advice here, or in the Advice Forum?
Either? You have less than a day, though, before the playtest is over, and evidence is starting to point towards there not being a second playtest document.
For PFS, you need atleast 1xp & the O.A.Playtest Chronicle Sheet, for homebrew ... well, have fun!