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About burn mechanic:
Is it already decided it will be kept the way it is? I imagine it can be a design choice to be introduced in PF Unchained, and to be used in several other classes. I ask this, so we may focus on something else (if it's already decided as an unchangeable feature) on the class.
As much as I like it as an option, I can't deal with it as an obligation to be effective or to use other features.
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I too feel like Feel the Burn is way worse than Burn itself. I personally try to avoid burn at all costs because honestly it is absolutely not fun. Flavorful and an effective limiter but not fun to have at all. Playing a aerokeneticist at 5th level was fine during Carrion Crown but 10th level in Emerald Spire sucked because I felt I needed burn to remain accurate. I'm entirely convinced that Occult Adventures will have some kind of 'blast' item that increases the attack bonus of blasts, or some kind of Kinetic hilt for kinetic blade, but I'm far more concerned with accuracy over damage so would like some kind of native way to be more accurate that isn't Feel the Burn. I don't want to be rewarded for overextending and contributing to the 15 min workday problem.
That said, I'd also would exchange power for utility. I'm okay with the blasts not being that great. Because they are all day abilities I'd want the blasts to be accurate or powerful not both, however they aren't really worth it without more utility wild talents. I am a bit biased on this because I really want the basic blast to be something that the kineticist does rather than be THE thing that the kineticist does
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I am totally cool with burn--I like it even, but I will readily admit that the psychology behind why might be counter to the typical player.
I hate limited resources. Immensely. Anything that is "per day," I will jealously hoard. If it's consumable? Well, if you check my high level sheets, there are sooo many liw level potions, wands, scrolls, etc., because, crap--once I use it, it's gone! What if I need it more later? I don't want to regret spending this thing now when I might need it even more later!
This is true in video games, too. I will die in mmos, diablo, borderlands, etc. with healing items in my inventory ready to go, because I will reason that I can just come back from death, but the potion is gone forever. What if I need the potion somewhere that it is less convenient to die, for example? During a boss fight? Generally, though, to avoid that, I just sell them all so as not to deal with the choice.
So, people who want a burn pool that counts down...No! I desperately don't want that! I like that burn counts up. That makes me feel better using it.
Then, add the fact that a properly built kineticist uses up 1/3 their level in burn for ALL DAY BUFFS with no limitations or worry that I should have used my resources some other way, and then I can do all of my cool tricks (except composite blast before 15) all day with absolutely no cost.
And if I want or need to use some for a desperation move, I won't worry because Burn is counting up (just like nonlethal). I won't die from it and while I have an effective limit, it doesn't feel like a limited resource. Having a pool I could spend to zero, though, would freak me out. I would always be worried I would need more later.
Plus, it plays into my desire to never be hit anyway. I like avoidance over mitigation for sure.
I agree with mplindustries, and for much the same reasons.
I feel the same way as well. Nothing else to say here, mpl put it pretty well, other than "please don't listen to the naysayers on this".
I agree with mplindustries, and for much the same reasons.I feel the same way as well. Nothing else to say here, mpl put it pretty well, other than "please don't listen to the naysayers on this".
Ditto, I hate per-day mechanics. I would only like to see the benefit of accumulating Burn increase, or the penalty for Burn decrease, as I currently don't think the risk/reward ratio of Burn is worth the cost, except in certain situations, like using 2 burn on the Aether's Force Ward.
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I don't like the game being compared to mmos, diablo, borderlands, etc.
I don't want to play those games. I want to play Pathfinder.
I also don't like the "I don't care why you don't like it, you're wrong, because it's perfect" comments.
That is rude, and it doesn't help.
Don't do that.
I don't like the game being compared to mmos, diablo, borderlands, etc.
I don't want to play those games. I want to play Pathfinder.
I also don't like the "I don't care why you don't like it, you're wrong, because it's perfect" comments.
That is rude, and it doesn't help.
Don't do that.
I think mp made some interesting arguments on why they like the existing burn mechanics. Like some other people, I would not mind burn being augmented by a small burn pool or some other ability that can help mitigate more burn (like avoiding two burn by spending two consecutive move actions), but I think the ability is really neat how it stands.
And what are you even talking about with diablo and whatever? Pathfinder and D&D are heavily balanced by the interplay of the power of classes and how reliably those classes can access that power. The Kineticist is merely a class that is favoring reliable access its abilities more than the class favors variety and raw effectiveness.
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What about Feel the Burn though? Burn is something I just didn't care about and felt was flavorful but Feel the Burn makes taking burn mandatory. Would be different if there was some other native way to boost accuracy but with Feel the Burn being the only way in the class features I'm not rewarded for my sacrifice I'm actively taking a huge risk for piddly numerical bonuses that I desperately need. Would also be different if that reward was huge.
As it stands, or at least for me, Feel the Burn is right next to the class skill list in terms of things I don't like about the class.
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What about Feel the Burn though? Burn is something I just didn't care about and felt was flavorful but Feel the Burn makes taking burn mandatory. Would be different if there was some other native way to boost accuracy but with Feel the Burn being the only way in the class features I'm not rewarded for my sacrifice I'm actively taking a huge risk for piddly numerical bonuses that I desperately need. Would also be different if that reward was huge.
As it stands, or at least for me, Feel the Burn is right next to the class skill list in terms of things I don't like about the class.
If you desperately need the bonus then they are hardly "piddly." Would you be any happier if the bonuses were bigger? Like every point of burn could give you a +2 to your attack (to a maximum of 1/2 your class level if you want my progression or 1/3 class level if you think the existing progression is fine).
For my part, I would be happier if the bonus was bigger.
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And what are you even talking about with diablo and whatever? Pathfinder and D&D are heavily balanced by the interplay of the power of classes and how reliably those classes can access that power. The Kineticist is merely a class that is favoring reliable access its abilities more than the class favors variety and raw effectiveness.
Those were the exact comparisons being made.
I didn't like those comparisons, and stated as such.
I don't like the game being compared to mmos, diablo, borderlands, etc.
I don't want to play those games. I want to play Pathfinder.
I also don't like the "I don't care why you don't like it, you're wrong, because it's perfect" comments.
That is rude, and it doesn't help.
Don't do that.
Despite being played in two different media, those games and Pathfinder have a lot in common and they can both learn from each other and be compared to further improve each game. Don't be afraid to draw inspiration from a video game, simply because it's a video game. It's not like you're breaking some sacred law if you do so.
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What about Feel the Burn though? Burn is something I just didn't care about and felt was flavorful but Feel the Burn makes taking burn mandatory. Would be different if there was some other native way to boost accuracy but with Feel the Burn being the only way in the class features I'm not rewarded for my sacrifice I'm actively taking a huge risk for piddly numerical bonuses that I desperately need. Would also be different if that reward was huge.
As it stands, or at least for me, Feel the Burn is right next to the class skill list in terms of things I don't like about the class.
If you desperately need the bonus then they are hardly "piddly." Would you be any happier if the bonuses were bigger? Like every point of burn could give you a +2 to your attack (to a maximum of 1/2 your class level if you want my progression or 1/3 class level if you think the existing progression is fine).
For my part, I would be happier if the bonus was bigger.
For minus my level in hp per bonus probably. I'd be happier if I got something more dramatic and related to my element but +2 would at least be more worth the hp price. But it doesn't solve the problem of needing to have burn as opposed to being rewarded by it, it just lessens the need. As I said above I'm a bit biased because I'm somewhat conservative with resources like HP but with a game described as 'rocket launcher tag' at later levels I sure as heck wouldn't want to put myself in one-shot range unless I really really needed it instead of it being my preferred state of combat.
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I just don't like the "well, it works well in this video game, so it should work fine in Pathfinder" sort of thinking.
Tabletop RPGs are a different beast.
To clarify, I didn't compare video games to pathfinder, nor did I suggest something that works in one works in the other.
I was merely establishing a cross-platform mind set opposed to limited resources.
And while I understand not liking people saying "no you're wrong," I didn't think I did that at all. I just made a case for keeping burn that you disagree with, and I explained where I am coming from as to why I feel that way.
What about Feel the Burn though? Burn is something I just didn't care about and felt was flavorful but Feel the Burn makes taking burn mandatory. Would be different if there was some other native way to boost accuracy but with Feel the Burn being the only way in the class features I'm not rewarded for my sacrifice I'm actively taking a huge risk for piddly numerical bonuses that I desperately need.
This is strange to me, because Feel the Burn is not what I am using Burn for. I am using burn for all day huffs like kinetic form, extra AC, Regenerating THP, DR, miss chance, a damage shield, etc.
The Feel the Burn bonus is just the cherry on top. I would spend more than FTB if I wanted the buff--I actually did on my example kineticist for the test above because I wanted all the AC I could get.
Edit: That said, I would never complain about reducing how much burn hurts or having more HP to begin with. It would be silly to refuse that
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I really dislike the burn mechanic. I have never seen a class ability that makes me not want to use it. I mean using HP, your most valuable resource, to do tricks that other classes can do with spells, panache/grit, rage, bardic music, ki, etc. just doesn't make sense to me. It also doesn't make sense to play a blaster with more HP then martial classes but ends up being more fragile then a wizard.
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I just finished my playlets survey and the thing that sort of stuck in my craw is I realized the whole question about damage/utility at the end. I don't know that that is fair, a lot of classes have relevant roles in and out of combat. I also was sort of irked by the damage question, I don't think the class needs to do more damage, but I feel that (and maybe the math folks will correct me) but the class does more damage as a martial class with the kinetic blade than with its signature blast. I don't want the blast to out do the kinetic blade approach, but be comparable to it would be nice.
I like burn for the simple reason of that it's more cinematic to overuse your powers and tire out faster. Far more cinematic than "I've got a pool of points and running out of them just means I can't spend them."
The only problem I have with Burn is that its risk vs reward seems slanted. Maybe FTB should be 1 atk 2 dmg per. Maybe some infusions should just cost less burn. I dunno.
I really dislike the burn mechanic. I have never seen a class ability that makes me not want to use it. I mean using HP, your most valuable resource, to do tricks that other classes can do with spells, panache/grit, rage, bardic music, ki, etc. just doesn't make sense to me. It also doesn't make sense to play a blaster with more HP then martial classes but ends up being more fragile then a wizard.
You're not more fragile than a wizard... Even after applying FtB a properly optimized Kineticist will have as much or more HP than most d10 martials. And apparently the Kineticist will have more health in the final version.
I'd love to get a confirmation from Mark that burn is here to stay no matter how much people complain so that we can move on to other issues. For example, I'd like Kinetic Form to give the stat/ability enhancements only while preserving size and creature type.
For minus my level in hp per bonus probably. I'd be happier if I got something more dramatic and related to my element but +2 would at least be more worth the hp price. But it doesn't solve the problem of needing to have burn as opposed to being rewarded by it, it just lessens the need. As I said above I'm a bit biased because I'm somewhat conservative with resources like HP but with a game described as 'rocket launcher tag' at later levels I sure as heck wouldn't want to put myself in one-shot range unless I really really needed it instead of it being my preferred state of combat.What about Feel the Burn though? Burn is something I just didn't care about and felt was flavorful but Feel the Burn makes taking burn mandatory. Would be different if there was some other native way to boost accuracy but with Feel the Burn being the only way in the class features I'm not rewarded for my sacrifice I'm actively taking a huge risk for piddly numerical bonuses that I desperately need. Would also be different if that reward was huge.
As it stands, or at least for me, Feel the Burn is right next to the class skill list in terms of things I don't like about the class.
If you desperately need the bonus then they are hardly "piddly." Would you be any happier if the bonuses were bigger? Like every point of burn could give you a +2 to your attack (to a maximum of 1/2 your class level if you want my progression or 1/3 class level if you think the existing progression is fine).
For my part, I would be happier if the bonus was bigger.
Thanks for voicing your perspective Malwing. A query: Let's say it gave +1 to hit and +2 damage for a moment, so in other words, it didn't grant more accuracy. Would you be eager to take it? If not, then consider choosing between having a 10th level fighter with 20 Str and 16 Con or 16 Str and 20 Con. Do you always pick the latter? If not, why not? The former version is sacrificing 20 hp (not just nonlethal either) and +2 Fort saves for mainly +2 to hit and +3 to damage (also carrying capacity and CMD, probably a wash with the Fort save, or less than the Fort save)
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I like burn for the simple reason of that it's more cinematic to overuse your powers and tire out faster. Far more cinematic than "I've got a pool of points and running out of them just means I can't spend them."
You mean, like how a Barbarian becomes fatigued?
Like when a Wizard uses the Blood Money spell?
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I really dislike the burn mechanic. I have never seen a class ability that makes me not want to use it. I mean using HP, your most valuable resource, to do tricks that other classes can do with spells, panache/grit, rage, bardic music, ki, etc. just doesn't make sense to me. It also doesn't make sense to play a blaster with more HP then martial classes but ends up being more fragile then a wizard.You're not more fragile than a wizard... Even after applying FtB a properly optimized Kineticist will have as much or more HP than most d10 martials. And apparently the Kineticist will have more health in the final version.
I'd love to get a confirmation from Mark that burn is here to stay no matter how much people complain so that we can move on to other issues. For example, I'd like Kinetic Form to give the stat/ability enhancements only while preserving size and creature type.
I'm not saying it will have more health in the final version. But I am playing with options that will work out in similar ways. I am posting this now, and when the final version comes out, is anyone had the expectation that I said it would have more health, and if it doesn't, someone please come back here and quote this (it might be me).
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I really dislike the burn mechanic. I have never seen a class ability that makes me not want to use it. I mean using HP, your most valuable resource, to do tricks that other classes can do with spells, panache/grit, rage, bardic music, ki, etc. just doesn't make sense to me. It also doesn't make sense to play a blaster with more HP then martial classes but ends up being more fragile then a wizard.
See, this is the point I was trying to make earlier. To me, EVERY resource with a daily limit on it makes me not want to use it. Every spell slot, every round of rage or performance, every point of ki or arcana--by being a daily resource, it makes me not want to use it. So, Burn is not registering to me the same way at all.
I like burn for the simple reason of that it's more cinematic to overuse your powers and tire out faster. Far more cinematic than "I've got a pool of points and running out of them just means I can't spend them."You mean, like how a Barbarian becomes fatigued?
Like when a Wizard uses the Blood Money spell?
Blood Money is one of the cheesiest spells in existence. Especially when you can blood money to limited wish away all the stat damage you've suffered when you're done abusing it.
Yes the Barbarian is a good example at low levels, but eventually he has so many rage rounds that he can just not worry about dropping rage or has magic items/rage powers/feats to counteract it.
A pool of points can be just as cinematic as taking HP damage to do stuff, it just depends on how you role play them. What they could do for over using your powers is effect you with status effects like confusion, fatigue, rage, staggered, sickened, etc.
The only class resource that makes me not want to use it is grit/panache since so many cool abilities rely on her having at least one point at all times. But I have no problem in using all other point systems.
Ditto, I hate per-day mechanics. I would only like to see the benefit of accumulating Burn increase, or the penalty for Burn decrease, as I currently don't think the risk/reward ratio of Burn is worth the cost, except in certain situations, like using 2 burn on the Aether's Force Ward.
And I'll ditto this. I don't need a pool, or personally want one and I don't feel that adding an extra mechanic (i.e. the pool) is necessary to "fix" burn. I more so feel, like Tels, that it could use a bit of a decrease in penalty or perhaps a tweak to Feel the Burn. Maybe lessening the necessary requirement to get the pluses from 3 per +1 to 2 per +1. But really, I feel it's more on burn needing a bit of decrease in intensity.
I think it'd be nice if some of the talents could be dropped by 1 lv. For instance, if Kinetic Form and Earth Glide (geokineticist) were at 9th lv. I'd happily spend my 9th level feat on (a fixed) extra wild talent. But that'll probably just be wishful thinking. Except hopefully a fixed extra wild talent. I hope that happens.
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Ditto, I hate per-day mechanics. I would only like to see the benefit of accumulating Burn increase, or the penalty for Burn decrease, as I currently don't think the risk/reward ratio of Burn is worth the cost, except in certain situations, like using 2 burn on the Aether's Force Ward.And I'll ditto this. I don't need a pool, or personally want one and I don't feel that adding an extra mechanic (i.e. the pool) is necessary to "fix" burn. I more so feel, like Tels, that it could use a bit of a decrease in penalty or perhaps a tweak to Feel the Burn. Maybe lessening the necessary requirement to get the pluses from 3 per +1 to 2 per +1. But really, I feel it's more on burn needing a bit of decrease in intensity.
I think it'd be nice if some of the talents could be dropped by 1 lv. For instance, if Kinetic Form and Earth Glide (geokineticist) were at 9th lv. I'd happily spend my 9th level feat on (a fixed) extra wild talent. But that'll probably just be wishful thinking. Except hopefully a fixed extra wild talent. I hope that happens.
If you aren't getting enough Wild Talents to pick up the ones that are vital to your build, I'd rather give you even more for free instead and leave the feat to be efficient at picking up talents from other elements (it can pick up the best ones available from expanded elements) or ones you missed from the prior tier.
I like burn for the simple reason of that it's more cinematic to overuse your powers and tire out faster. Far more cinematic than "I've got a pool of points and running out of them just means I can't spend them."You mean, like how a Barbarian becomes fatigued?
Like when a Wizard uses the Blood Money spell?
Blood Money is one of the cheesiest spells in existence. Especially when you can blood money to limited wish away all the stat damage you've suffered when you're done abusing it.
Agreed, ID. In fact, I daresay that blood money is a good example of why giving you something amazing for a drawback that can be ignored is not good design compared to having a drawback that is consistently applied.
How about a feat that halves the temporary HP penalty of burn?
That way, Burn is not the only ability in the game that has a completely unmitigatable drawback.
I understand that many people would take this feat, but in all honesty the same can be said of Power Attack, Deadly Aim, and a few other feats.
If you aren't getting enough Wild Talents to pick up the ones that are vital to your build, I'd rather give you even more for free instead and leave the feat to be efficient at picking up talents from other elements (it can pick up the best ones available from expanded elements) or ones you missed from the prior tier.Ditto, I hate per-day mechanics. I would only like to see the benefit of accumulating Burn increase, or the penalty for Burn decrease, as I currently don't think the risk/reward ratio of Burn is worth the cost, except in certain situations, like using 2 burn on the Aether's Force Ward.And I'll ditto this. I don't need a pool, or personally want one and I don't feel that adding an extra mechanic (i.e. the pool) is necessary to "fix" burn. I more so feel, like Tels, that it could use a bit of a decrease in penalty or perhaps a tweak to Feel the Burn. Maybe lessening the necessary requirement to get the pluses from 3 per +1 to 2 per +1. But really, I feel it's more on burn needing a bit of decrease in intensity.
I think it'd be nice if some of the talents could be dropped by 1 lv. For instance, if Kinetic Form and Earth Glide (geokineticist) were at 9th lv. I'd happily spend my 9th level feat on (a fixed) extra wild talent. But that'll probably just be wishful thinking. Except hopefully a fixed extra wild talent. I hope that happens.
I like the idea of free Wild Talents. There are a lot of non-vital wild talents that wouldn't fit into the build unless they were given for free.
I am totally cool with burn--I like it even, but I will readily admit that the psychology behind why might be counter to the typical player.
I hate limited resources. Immensely. Anything that is "per day," I will jealously hoard. If it's consumable? Well, if you check my high level sheets, there are sooo many liw level potions, wands, scrolls, etc., because, crap--once I use it, it's gone! What if I need it more later? I don't want to regret spending this thing now when I might need it even more later!
This is true in video games, too. I will die in mmos, diablo, borderlands, etc. with healing items in my inventory ready to go, because I will reason that I can just come back from death, but the potion is gone forever. What if I need the potion somewhere that it is less convenient to die, for example? During a boss fight? Generally, though, to avoid that, I just sell them all so as not to deal with the choice.
So, people who want a burn pool that counts down...No! I desperately don't want that! I like that burn counts up. That makes me feel better using it.
Then, add the fact that a properly built kineticist uses up 1/3 their level in burn for ALL DAY BUFFS with no limitations or worry that I should have used my resources some other way, and then I can do all of my cool tricks (except composite blast before 15) all day with absolutely no cost.
And if I want or need to use some for a desperation move, I won't worry because Burn is counting up (just like nonlethal). I won't die from it and while I have an effective limit, it doesn't feel like a limited resource. Having a pool I could spend to zero, though, would freak me out. I would always be worried I would need more later.
Plus, it plays into my desire to never be hit anyway. I like avoidance over mitigation for sure.
Quoting to point out my opinion said by someone in a much more eloquent way that I could have.
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I am totally cool with burn--I like it even, but I will readily admit that the psychology behind why might be counter to the typical player.
I hate limited resources. Immensely. Anything that is "per day," I will jealously hoard. If it's consumable? Well, if you check my high level sheets, there are sooo many liw level potions, wands, scrolls, etc., because, crap--once I use it, it's gone! What if I need it more later? I don't want to regret spending this thing now when I might need it even more later!
This is true in video games, too. I will die in mmos, diablo, borderlands, etc. with healing items in my inventory ready to go, because I will reason that I can just come back from death, but the potion is gone forever. What if I need the potion somewhere that it is less convenient to die, for example? During a boss fight? Generally, though, to avoid that, I just sell them all so as not to deal with the choice.
So, people who want a burn pool that counts down...No! I desperately don't want that! I like that burn counts up. That makes me feel better using it.
Then, add the fact that a properly built kineticist uses up 1/3 their level in burn for ALL DAY BUFFS with no limitations or worry that I should have used my resources some other way, and then I can do all of my cool tricks (except composite blast before 15) all day with absolutely no cost.
And if I want or need to use some for a desperation move, I won't worry because Burn is counting up (just like nonlethal). I won't die from it and while I have an effective limit, it doesn't feel like a limited resource. Having a pool I could spend to zero, though, would freak me out. I would always be worried I would need more later.
Plus, it plays into my desire to never be hit anyway. I like avoidance over mitigation for sure.
I am with you to a point. I like that burn counts up, I even think the flavour of non-lethal damage is great. I think burn should be a threshold that means when you hit the cap you take all the damage at once. That leaves the choice in the hands of the player while simultaneously retaining the wonderful flavour. I imagine it as Sue Storm or Jean Grey exerting their power and then that last bit of extra oomph overwhelms them as their nose bleeds and eyes roll into their head and all the pain they were blocking out rushes past their mental barriers all at once.
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I like the idea of free Wild Talents. There are a lot of non-vital wild talents that wouldn't fit into the build unless they were given for free.If you aren't getting enough Wild Talents to pick up the ones that are vital to your build, I'd rather give you even more for free instead and leave the feat to be efficient at picking up talents from other elements (it can pick up the best ones available from expanded elements) or ones you missed from the prior tier.Ditto, I hate per-day mechanics. I would only like to see the benefit of accumulating Burn increase, or the penalty for Burn decrease, as I currently don't think the risk/reward ratio of Burn is worth the cost, except in certain situations, like using 2 burn on the Aether's Force Ward.And I'll ditto this. I don't need a pool, or personally want one and I don't feel that adding an extra mechanic (i.e. the pool) is necessary to "fix" burn. I more so feel, like Tels, that it could use a bit of a decrease in penalty or perhaps a tweak to Feel the Burn. Maybe lessening the necessary requirement to get the pluses from 3 per +1 to 2 per +1. But really, I feel it's more on burn needing a bit of decrease in intensity.
I think it'd be nice if some of the talents could be dropped by 1 lv. For instance, if Kinetic Form and Earth Glide (geokineticist) were at 9th lv. I'd happily spend my 9th level feat on (a fixed) extra wild talent. But that'll probably just be wishful thinking. Except hopefully a fixed extra wild talent. I hope that happens.
If possible, I'd like to collect those into groups of them and then deliver an option, but yeah. I prefer giving you the stuff you need to make an awesome character for free and then making the feat option to get even more give you not your top thing, rather than opening up the feat option to get more top powers but essentially requiring it as a tax.
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I have never seen a problem with Blood Money.
Strength damage really sucks. Especially if you have a low score.
Different experiences I suppose.
Use a transmutation spell to get STR (Monstrous Physique is good), get Boars Str. Use blood money on a bunch of spells, till all you have left is 4 str. Use Blood Money on a limited Wish to heal ALL str damage. If you have more spell slots then abuse blood money more.
If used right you can combo Blood Money and Limited wish to produce over 10,000g of spell effects in just one day.
A drawback that can't be mitigated, why start now after 30+ classes.
A good litmus test when you look at those Wild Talents is to ask youself "If I only ever had access to 10 Wild Talents, would I actually pick this one?"
I know that for Fire Sculptor, Ice Walker, Light Touch, and Telekinetic Finesse my answer would be no and confusion as to why I am an awesome enough Telekinetic to throw cars, but not awesome enough to NOT throw the car.
A drawback that can't be mitigated, why start now after 30+ classes.
Maybe to create a unique play experience? I'd rather have something UNLIKE the other 30 classes than have a "new" way to stand still and full attack.
Thanks for voicing your perspective Malwing. A query: Let's say it gave +1 to hit and +2 damage for a moment, so in other words, it didn't grant more accuracy. Would you be eager to take it? If not, then consider choosing between having a 10th level fighter with 20 Str and 16 Con or 16 Str and 20 Con. Do you always pick the latter? If not, why not? The former version is sacrificing 20 hp (not...For minus my level in hp per bonus probably. I'd be happier if I got something more dramatic and related to my element but +2 would at least be more worth the hp price. But it doesn't solve the problem of needing to have burn as opposed to being rewarded by it, it just lessens the need. As I said above I'm a bit biased because I'm somewhat conservative with resources like HP but with a game described as 'rocket launcher tag' at later levels I sure as heck wouldn't want to put myself in one-shot range unless I really really needed it instead of it being my preferred state of combat.What about Feel the Burn though? Burn is something I just didn't care about and felt was flavorful but Feel the Burn makes taking burn mandatory. Would be different if there was some other native way to boost accuracy but with Feel the Burn being the only way in the class features I'm not rewarded for my sacrifice I'm actively taking a huge risk for piddly numerical bonuses that I desperately need. Would also be different if that reward was huge.
As it stands, or at least for me, Feel the Burn is right next to the class skill list in terms of things I don't like about the class.
If you desperately need the bonus then they are hardly "piddly." Would you be any happier if the bonuses were bigger? Like every point of burn could give you a +2 to your attack (to a maximum of 1/2 your class level if you want my progression or 1/3 class level if you think the existing progression is fine).
For my part, I would be happier if the bonus was bigger.
In that particular instance I'd probably go for the 20 str 16 con every time given the choice between the two. Its kind of a personal thing but for me not hitting is way worse than being more killable in the sense that making my abilities go off or otherwise do something is fun to me. Having a lower strength fighter is less fun for me because of missing with attacks more than anything else. (disregarding ways to hit with things other than strength.) Missing is probably the worst feeling in the game if that's the main thing you do.
I personally like the burn option. I think you can get along famously without using burn, but find there are certain powers that I would want to use burn with consistently (I'm looking at you, shroud of water). Burn also is a bigger cost at lower levels of play. At level 3, you might be more hesitant to take damage than at say level 10, where you might have 100 hp or more.
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I too like the idea of free Wild talents, specially if utility ones. The need to make a viable combat build would otherwise prevent taking many fun and interesting talents.
On a side question: How would Diehard feat interact with non-lethal damage from burn?