I don't want to interfere too much, but...
- the post does have enough rope.
- the buildings are sturdy enough to withstand your plan - even the small pen.
- I'm not really sure I understand the rope plan. The doors open into the fort, so unless you have some contraption, the rope will need to be pulled from outside the fort.
Thanks for the clarification, GM Tallgrass. In that case, correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but I think that would make it even harder to pull off the donkey plan?
I'm still thinking we're best off with Caelus and Timothy north (top) of the open area, and Maja and Caelius behind the open door in the south (bottom). I'll leave untangled paths around the circumference of the open area, including a quick path just west (left) of the left-most bench, for us to reach each other should Timothy need Maja's healing, or for any other reason - she'd probably be able to get there in a single round this way.
Knowing the door opens inward changes my best position. I should be hiding behind the stable, its south-west (bottom-left) corner, not behind A2, so I can get a clear view of the bandits entering. After the last one enters, that's my trigger for casting entangle. Then I can move in to wherever I'm most needed.
All righty - I'm having issues making the map work with maptools or Photoshop. So we're just going to do our best approximation of what's happening.
I realize the radius of the entanglement is technically larger than the green square shows, but is this roughly where each of you will be when the bandits arrive?
looks about right to me
Looks pretty good to me. I wasn't planning on having the full area of entangle used anyway, as that would inhibit us as well, lol.
But I'm actually thinking I'd place the plants so that there is a 5 ft. path for us to move around the circumference of the plants that won't be entangled, where the plants cannot reach. Iow, move the green rectangle one square down, then trim off the left and right edges by 5 ft. So it will be 10 ft. thinner (25 ft. left-right, 35 ft. up-down). This way, Maja can freely move to the northern pair should they need healing, and the bandits' horses (which occupy 10x10 ft. spaces) will still have to make reflex saves, forcing the bandits to dismount (and be easier to catch should they flee) if they want to use our open path.
And yes, let's do a trial run.
Ok I must have failed at explaining. Sorry.
I will go with this plan as it seems to be consensus but I want to point out how spread out we are.
We are looking at 5-7 bandits on horseback. We have to assume about half the horses will make their ref saves vs. the entangle. This means Timothy will be a target for both arrows and melee attack.
With the given starting points Caelus can just about reach Timothy with a move action but that path sends him Through the entangle. This could be a problem. That entangle is a DC15 reflex save correct Aldarion?
Another thing to point out is that the entangled condition will likely only effect the horses. The riders, who as forest brigands will likely have at least short bows, will be free to fire at will. Or more likely at Timothy.
Last attempt at explaining the rope-trick.
Goal: To allow one person to close and bar the gate. Note, not to close the gate but to turn it from a 2-3 person job to a 1 person job. This allows us to concentrate our forces.
Assumptions: I am assuming the half of the gate farthest from A2 will be left open if it is the other half the plan still works but the Donkey will be behind A3 rather than A2 and all references should be read as such.
The rope is attached to the door, likely to the bracket the bar slides through it then dangles loosely to the ground. This is visible but as the rope does not appear to be connected to anything it is very likely to be overlooked until it is too late.
Appearing to be dangling loosely the rope in face enters a small cut, divot or ditch that runs around the open door and across the entryway. This is not a major excavation. Less than an inch deep and covered with swept dust. This will make the rope invisible while posing no resistance to the rope when the donkey pulls. The rope will jump out of the cut and straighten when tension is applied.
The ditch or cut will guise the rope around one of the posts supporting the walkway or around a small post driven into the ground for this purpose. This post will change the pull from a diagonal pull to the E by E to a nearly true E pull. This will not shut the door but it will get it to within inches of shutting and a simple shoulder shove while affixing the bar should do the rest.
Is this clear?
Using the rope trick means one person at the gate, one person at the donkey and three people at the focal point. As the donkey herd is almost halfway to the focus point that means within a round they can be joining the conflict. The consensus plan has us scattered in four separate groups rendering us vulnerable to being individually overpowered.
As I said I can go with the consensus plan. Caelius will be on the roof of either A2 or A3 ASAP and launching arrows in any case, So I am not too concerned about his safety. I am quite concerned about Timothy's ability to survive 1-2 rounds of arrow fire and a possible charge or at least a double move and attack by a someone whose horse made their save.
Thoughts
Ok I must have failed at explaining. Sorry.
No apologies needed, it's easy to do in PBP - if we were in person, we could just point at what we're talking about, lol.
I will go with this plan as it seems to be consensus but I want to point out how spread out we are.
We are looking at 5-7 bandits on horseback. We have to assume about half the horses will make their ref saves vs. the entangle. This means Timothy will be a target for both arrows and melee attack.
If the bandits are not suspicious of a trap, their history of behavior indicates to me they are not going to charge in shooting. They're probably thinking Oleg and Svetlana are weak targets who will (as in the past) give up whatever the bandits want. So they're probably going to approach "Oleg" smugly and try to intimidate him, and steal whatever they find of value.
With the given starting points Caelus can just about reach Timothy with a move action but that path sends him Through the entangle. This could be a problem. That entangle is a DC15 reflex save correct Aldarion?
DC 15, yes, however Aldarion will not cast the spell until Timothy is out of the area and the bandits are in it. When Timothy passes through the plants, they will be inanimate, normal plants - no Reflex saves necessary for Timothy.
Aldarion's going to keep an eye out for the bandits approach, and count how many he sees. Climbing down into position (on the map), he'll wait for the last bandit to enter the fort, and then cast entangle.
Another thing to point out is that the entangled condition will likely only effect the horses. The riders, who as forest brigands will likely have at least short bows, will be free to fire at will. Or more likely at Timothy.
That depends on how tall the plants I find are. If we find some long-enough vines (hopefully!), the bandits as well as horses would be entanglable.
Last attempt at explaining the rope-trick.
Goal: To allow one person to close and bar the gate. Note, not to close the gate but to turn it from a 2-3 person job to a 1 person job. This allows us to concentrate our forces.
With you so far.
Assumptions: I am assuming the half of the gate farthest from A2 will be left open if it is the other half the plan still works but the Donkey will be behind A3 rather than A2 and all references should be read as such.
Aha, I think we were thinking the other door (as depicted in the GM's new map).
But still, with your door opened, now that we know it opens inward (into the fort), the donkey would still have to be outside the fort to pull it shut, no? Or are you thinking it will push it shut?
The rope is attached to the door, likely to the bracket the bar slides through it then dangles loosely to the ground. This is visible but as the rope does not appear to be connected to anything it is very likely to be overlooked until it is too late.
Appearing to be dangling loosely the rope in face enters a small cut, divot or ditch that runs around the open door and across the entryway. This is not a major excavation. Less than an inch deep and covered with swept dust. This will make the rope invisible while posing no resistance to the rope when the donkey pulls. The rope will jump out of the cut and straighten when tension is applied.
The ditch or cut will guise the rope around one of the posts supporting the walkway or around a small post driven into the ground for this...
Okay. But I am still not seeing how the rope will close the gate when pulled since it opens into the fort. Pulling the rope from in the fort will only open the door more.
Are you thinking the door opens outward from the fort? In that case I easily see how it would work. But the GM mentioned that's not the case.
Re: pulling the door:
Ok I see the problem.
Picture the door in the fully opened position. On one side of the door is the entry opening and on the other the wall.
Once the donkey is pulling the rope will extend from the leading edge of the open door across the entry opening. By using one of the posts supporting the walkway or a post installed for the purpose the rope will be pulling the door in a E by SE direction. (Or W by SW depending on the door) The point is the force from the pulling rope will be moving across the entry and towards the outer wall. Not all the way to the wall, at some point the attachment point will move through the line between the hinge and the guide post. At that point momentum and a good shove will close the door.
Hmmm this might be a better explanation.
Look at the artistic map of olegs not the tactical one.
Now imagine one door closed and the other fully open.
Tie a rope to the open door where the doorknob would be if this were a normal door.
Tie the other end to a large rock and drop it from the catapult tower closest to the closed half of the door.
Do you see that this would pull the open door very nearly closed?
Heck given the moving doors momentum it would likely slam hard despite the fact that the rope would stop pulling a few degrees short of completely closed.
Any better?
OOh brainstorm.
Look at the rough map of plan.
See the the door Caelius is hiding behind?
See the ladder halfway between Timothy and Aldarion?
Run the concealed rope from the leading edge of the door, AROUND THAT LADDER and then to Aldarion.
Can you see that is Alderion pulls on that rope the door will swing mainly closed?
Note to Tallgrass and all concerned I will be out of touch for the weekend. Please bot Caelius as needed. Caelius will first close and bolt the gate, by whatever method, and then head for a roof to provide arrow support.
To that end He will conceal knotted ropes hanging off A2 and A3 for easy access.
That is all.
Ahhhh, okay! Now I see what you mean. I wasn't sure what you meant by the "walkway post" since they're not depicted on the maps. Now I know you mean the walkway's support posts. If that post is strong enough, that could work then.
Otherwise, we won't be using the southwestern walkway for a while, lol.
The ladders might be detachable, I'm thinking? Thinner wood, too. Maybe not going to offer much support for this, the posts should prove more durable I imagine.
I'm fine with trying that then. Something to consider though: if I am handling the donkey (std act) and casting the spell (std act), there will be a delay. Either way, let's just catch us some bandits. :)
Lol. Agreed. That's more than enough discussion, let's get to the morning. :D
Oh, and maybe do the trial run in the early am... or before bed if you prefer (we can postpone my last post 'til after we try out our plan).
I have some bad news everyone: my computer has gone to its home at Apple HQ for some repair work. I should have it back by Wednesday, but I won't be able to advance the game much until then. I'll try to keep,things moving, but anything involving a map will have to wait. Sorry.
Not a problem.
We can wait. I hope you didn't loose much data.
Fortunately it's just a display issue.
And, thanks to the magic of Time Machine and Dropbox, I've discovered that I may be able to keep things moving on a backup computer.
And there was great rejoicing.
Reguarding Placement.
If we are using the donkey trick then Maja does not need to be and really should not be with Caelius. Timothy and Cealus will need her.
If we are mot using the donkey then the mapped positions are correct.
Regarding Placement.
If we are using the donkey trick then Maja does not need to be and really should not be with Caelius. Timothy and Cealus will need her.
If we are mot using the donkey then the mapped positions are correct.
That's cool. Good to have back up in case everything goes wrong.
I went with the donkey first, will entangle next. I'm assuming initiative shall begin soon, so I will postpone other actions for now.
I also decided to go ahead and give Timothy a hand with the western door. I don't recall us discussing who might help him, but since I am closest to it and I don't have to run across the open area and get spotted by bandits...
Remember, I left a 5 ft. circumference of unentanglable paths around the plants for us to use, so Maja can run to Timothy & Caelus if and when needed without having to make reflex saves.
Good luck with the display fix. Hope it just needs a back light swap. And thank goodness for Time Machine and Dropbox. :)
The computer is back in action. I will move things forward after my meeting this morning.
Awesome :)
So sorry for the delay, everyone. I will get things moving in the morning!
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to it. :)
No problem, take the time you need.
Hey Tallgrass.
I think I am misunderstanding how Entangle works. I thought it required a successful save or a successful strength/escape artist check (a move action) to move at all since the plants are anchored to the ground.
Are you rolling the bandits saves and such off screen? Or am I missing something?
Hmmm...I may be the one who misunderstood. I don't think I realized the plants were secured - though I'm also not sure that the soil in the sacks would count as secured.
I'm going to keep things as they are as I'm kind of lazy, but will be kind in this combat as I nerfed your creative plan.
Also Timothy, I apologize. I missed your post with the questions for Oleg. Sorry about that.
I may be misremembering from 3.5 or something where entangle included a good bit of plant growth. Eh live and learn.
Time to shoot arrows at things.
The area of entanglement counts as difficult terrain (everyone moves half speed in the area, no 5 ft. steps; save or not). If they fail their reflex save, their speed is halved again (e.g. quarter speed) from gaining the entangled condition. Otherwise, if they succeed on their save, they move through the area only as if it is difficult terrain (half speed, no 5 ft. steps).
I expected the plants would slow but not fully tether them, actually. I did make sure to mention I was tying the plants' roots and sizable soil bundles both in burlap, to help weigh them down (e.g. like the way they sell trees and shrubs for planting at your local nursery). But it's not like the plants are planted into the ground.
If the plants WERE bound into the ground, then the bandits would in fact need a Strength check to break out and move, or an Escape Artist check to slide free and move; otherwise, they would in fact be rendered immobile.
So it's really up to GM discretion whether the plants count as heavy enough to prevent movement to the entangled bandits.
...
The more critical factor for me was the fact they get -2 penalties to attack rolls and their Dex mods too. So their AC and touch AC are lowered by -2 each, plus ranged attack rolls get -4 from both penalties combined (not to mention all Dex-based skill checks like Escape Artist and Init order).
Our archers seem to be missing anyway though, lol. The best laid plans...
I was also hoping they'd dismount and lose their +1 bonus to melee attack rolls for having the higher ground (from horseback). That part has worked out well.
Entangle spell reference.
Timothy - you'll want to take a 5 ft. step closer to Happs, or wait for him to get 5 ft. closer before casting color spray. The spell's range is 15 ft., and you're 20 ft. from Happs... :)
EDIT: Oh I see, nevermind. You did mention stepping forward.
Yes. Forgot a technical breakdown of my turn sorry.
I apologize for the slow-going, everyone. Thanks for sticking around!
No troubles. Life happens.
All good :)
No problem... other than my bleeding abdomen! :o
I didn't think to ask this before but I see some GM's ban the Leadership feat. Wondering what your view on it was Sir Tallgrass as I felt it would be an awesome part of Timothy's build.
I'm good with the Leadership feat, Timothy. I've never actually played with it before, so we'll see how things go. Your cohort and followers will be able to aid with the running of the kingdom (spoiler alert!), but won't be able to fill an official role.
Again, we're a ways from needing to deal with this, but you can plan accordingly, as I'm committed to getting you to level 7 so you can take the feat!
The dice do not favor Aldarion in this battle, lol.
I'm coming to your rescue!
Sweet thankyou sir Tallgrass. An army followers to do all the boring stuff of running the kingdom so I can go hunting and court damsels will be awesome heheh. :P
Thanks, lol. Looks like he will be fine the way things are turning out. Maja will probably skewer that bandit who scored MAX (!) damage against me (twice in a row!) if he tries anything funny. Going forward, I'd better get that AC up if I intend to keep going into melee...
Maja - I believe Timothy already made mention of tying up Happs... or at least asking for rope for Happs. I am surmising he has been tied. I think the bandit you speared is the only survivor not tied.
EDIT: Oops, nevermind. Just checked, and looks like he mentioned asking who has rope for tying the both of them, but nobody has explicitly stated actually tying them up...
Btw, OOC I know Happs fell to Timothy's spell. Though Aldarion probably spotted him casting some kind of magic on Happs and might surmise as much, he didn't do a Spellcraft check at the time to know for certain, and he's not taking chances in-character.
Also assuming all the horses have calmed down with the plants no longer entangling them... if they are acting up, then I think Aldarion will tend to them before the bodies...
Heck Yea. We don't have to walk anymore.
Aldarion - sorry, I forgot to include your perception and heal checks. No bandits are faking. Two are dead. One is seriously wounded and one is unharmed but very angry (Happs).
I'm fine with Maja's picks. Aldarion is eyeballing one of the cure light wounds potions for himself. He already has a horse, and has little need for any other items. Except perhaps the shield of faith potion, considering his recent near-death experience... but I don't want to be greedy.
Perhaps one of the horses can serve as a pack horse, for the party's needs as we explore the Greenbelt?
No prob, GM Tallgrass.