Is there one? Wizards of the Coast has the D&D book of vile darkness and the warlock class. Are there any shady Paizo products?
I think he means THIS.
Dustin: ugh, thanks.
Shin: beside the slaughter of ogres, what in t hat mod says "evil" to you?
Dustin: ugh, thanks.
Shin: beside the slaughter of ogres, what in t hat mod says "evil" to you?
The systematic murder of infant girls by their mother, in order for her to monopolize her male children's sexual desires?
That's as much disgusting as it is evil.
I don't know if Faiths of Corruption or Champions of Corruption will fulfil the "shady" requirement. Both are part of the Player Companion line (although ChBal is not out yet, I believe).
But anything involving Lamashtu probably will. There's even a thread here, the title of which is something along the lines of "OMG Lamashtu!"
The systematic murder of infant girls by their mother, in order for her to monopolize her male children's sexual desires?Dustin: ugh, thanks.
Shin: beside the slaughter of ogres, what in t hat mod says "evil" to you?Paizo caught a fair amount of flak for it at the time, too.
-Skeld
You'll notice Paizo really hasn't trod down that particular path since.
|
While certainly adult in nature, it was well within the context of the storyline.
You'll notice Paizo really hasn't trod down that particular path since.
I'm honestly fine with that being pointed at as "the line" though, both the prevent escalation and as a good landmark to know when to dial it back.
Creative Director
|
| 14 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hook Mountain is indeed "the line." And it served another purpose... it was us no longer being under the aegis of WotC, and I wanted to deliberately step out of the "safety net" that was implied to be in place when we were doing Dragon and Dungeon. Since then, we actually have approached that line several more times, particularly in books like Demons Revisited or the Books of the Damned, but never to the extent that we did with Hook Mountain... or with the suddenness. I feel that we'v established that, on the whole, Golarion is a step "darker" and more prone to mature content than D&D's various settings are. That's by design.
We may go further than that line in the future if the storyline and all that suggests it.
Not sure how this escaped from the earlier recommendations, but there is also this.
-TimD
Edit after seeing the JJ post - I'm glad that possibility is still open in your mind, I would love to see what Paizo can do for more black-hat themed stuff that's more LE in flavor.
|
You'll notice Paizo really hasn't trod down that particular path since.The systematic murder of infant girls by their mother, in order for her to monopolize her male children's sexual desires?Dustin: ugh, thanks.
Shin: beside the slaughter of ogres, what in t hat mod says "evil" to you?Paizo caught a fair amount of flak for it at the time, too.
-Skeld
Indeed.
-Skeld
Read ANYTHING about lamashtu or zon kuthon. pathfinder goes MUCH farther than vile dorkness
|
Witches basically are the "Sell your soul for power" class in PF. They can have 'Patrons' that vary from angels to demons, cthululand, and space monsters.
Ancient Thassilon reads pretty much like BoVD ver batim.
Rule of Fear covers the stereotype gothic country Ustalav pretty thoroughly, which is kind of a horrible horrible place to live between monstrous possession, random undead, vampires, cthululand cults all over the place, and bordering demon hole on one side, crazed good guy religious fanatics on another, and the terror state Razmirran on a third.
Classic Horrors, Undead Revisited, and presumably the new Undead Unleashed book all cover the very disturbing and all too numerous across the entire face of Golarion undead population.
One of the CS's primary deities is all about cooking people, on top of the cosmic insanity deity and the make babies with all things deity previously mentioned.
A dragon runs a eugenics experiment country.
Just a few dark side things i could think of.
Witches basically are the "Sell your soul for power" class in PF. They can have 'Patrons' that vary from angels to demons, cthululand, and space monsters.
By that reasoning, every Cleric and Paladin would be on "The Dark Side", as well.
Re "The Line": I think it was also crossed with the description of torture methods in Cities of Golarion. Those made me queasy; I had no problems of the sort with the degenerate hillbilly ogres.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had no problems of the sort with the degenerate hillbilly ogres.
Yew got a purty mouth, boy.
Broken Chains
The drug midnight milk and its connection to Ilvirandin.
Re "The Line": I think it was also crossed with the description of torture methods in Cities of Golarion. Those made me queasy; I had no problems of the sort with the degenerate hillbilly ogres.Do you mean Nisroch? -- where the children have their mouths sewn shut with twine, and the sick, the elderly and the disabled are rounded up and incinerated alive in the crematoriums.
Not that, although that is quite dark, as well. I meant the sidebar detailing torture methods, specifically.
One of the CS's primary deities is all about cooking people, on top of the cosmic insanity deity and the make babies with all things deity previously mentioned.
Cooking people? Are you referring to Gyronna (not one of the main 20), or another one?
I'm assuming that the other two are Zon-Kuthon and Lamashtu, although one could substitute the entire Cthulhu mythos for Zon-Kuthon when it comes to cosmic insanity.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
So what people are saying is that in the future I should try to present darker material than what I have in the past? ;)
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
So what people are saying is that in the future I should try to present darker material than what I have in the past? ;)
Only if you want it to die an ignominious death by red pen.
Presenting the players with more hard choices would be nice.
Like in Wasteland 2 for example.
Also what´s totally missing is something like Menzoberanzan and Dark Sun flavor- and crunchwise. Places where normal life is just harder, even for heroes.
As well as a good and an evil matriarchy!
Demon's Revisited went to some dark places.
Overall I would say there isn't one single super dark book, but there is material scattered throughout the setting. And some of the worst things are kind of not immediately evident. I am think the various lists of demigod outsiders, and the lists of their areas of concern
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am think the various lists of demigod outsiders, and the lists of their areas of concern
Inside back cover of Book of the Damned III: Horsemen of the Apocalypse...
Harbinger Daemon Folca
Areas of Concern: Abduction, strangers, sweets.
Domains: Charm, Evil, Travel, Trickery.
Favored Weapon: Net
*shudder*
In the same book, on page 39, also note the spell parasitic soul.
*shudder*
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Still waiting for that Nyarlathotep centric Adventure Path. I can see that going to the dark places
|
|
One of the CS's primary deities is all about cooking people, on top of the cosmic insanity deity and the make babies with all things deity previously mentioned.Cooking people? Are you referring to Gyronna (not one of the main 20), or another one?
I'm assuming that the other two are Zon-Kuthon and Lamashtu, although one could substitute the entire Cthulhu mythos for Zon-Kuthon when it comes to cosmic insanity.
The unholy text of Urgathoa Serving Your Hunger is partially a cookbook. A people cookbook.
The artwork for Demons Revisited: every chapter title page has one of the iconics about to be killed by a demon, in particularly nasty ways. The two I find most chilling are...
Lirianne, possessed by a shadow demon, firing her pistol into Seelah's head, blowing out her friend's brains.
A glabrezu gleefully showing the corpse of Droogami to a caged and despondent Lini.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Carnival of Tears is pretty dark as well.
Heh, I remember that two different sources had a VASTLY different population figure for Falcon's Hollow. My explanation.....Carnival of Tears happened.
I've heard that tossed around before. Its sadly very fitting even.
|
Creative Director
|
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
The artwork for Demons Revisited: every chapter title page has one of the iconics about to be killed by a demon, in particularly nasty ways. The two I find most chilling are...
Lirianne, possessed by a shadow demon, firing her pistol into Seelah's head, blowing out her friend's brains.
A glabrezu gleefully showing the corpse of Droogami to a caged and despondent Lini.
Now, now... that wasn't Droogami's corpse. It was just his fur. He might still be alive. Kept painfully so, even after he was skinned. The artwork doesn't make that part clear.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now, now... that wasn't Droogami's corpse. It was just his fur. He might still be alive. Kept painfully so, even after he was skinned. The artwork doesn't make that part clear.The artwork for Demons Revisited: every chapter title page has one of the iconics about to be killed by a demon, in particularly nasty ways. The two I find most chilling are...
Lirianne, possessed by a shadow demon, firing her pistol into Seelah's head, blowing out her friend's brains.
A glabrezu gleefully showing the corpse of Droogami to a caged and despondent Lini.
:O
...
...
...
I don't think that makes it better
Also, I'm not seeing anyone mentioning Lamashtu's Flower, the orgy and procreation temple of Lamashtu that likes to...bring in new folk.
|
|
Now, now... that wasn't Droogami's corpse. It was just his fur. He might still be alive. Kept painfully so, even after he was skinned. The artwork doesn't make that part clear.The artwork for Demons Revisited: every chapter title page has one of the iconics about to be killed by a demon, in particularly nasty ways. The two I find most chilling are...
Lirianne, possessed by a shadow demon, firing her pistol into Seelah's head, blowing out her friend's brains.
A glabrezu gleefully showing the corpse of Droogami to a caged and despondent Lini.
:O
...
...
...
I don't think that makes it better
I don't think it was supposed to, merely clarify.
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
The unholy text of Urgathoa Serving Your Hunger is partially a cookbook. A people cookbook.One of the CS's primary deities is all about cooking people, on top of the cosmic insanity deity and the make babies with all things deity previously mentioned.Cooking people? Are you referring to Gyronna (not one of the main 20), or another one?
I'm assuming that the other two are Zon-Kuthon and Lamashtu, although one could substitute the entire Cthulhu mythos for Zon-Kuthon when it comes to cosmic insanity.
That's a misconception that started with an incorrect translation and spread by intolerant enemies of the church
Serving Your Hunger is a cookbook for people.
It's about bringing people together
Hook Mountain is indeed "the line." And it served another purpose... it was us no longer being under the aegis of WotC, and I wanted to deliberately step out of the "safety net" that was implied to be in place when we were doing Dragon and Dungeon. Since then, we actually have approached that line several more times, particularly in books like Demons Revisited or the Books of the Damned, but never to the extent that we did with Hook Mountain... or with the suddenness. I feel that we'v established that, on the whole, Golarion is a step "darker" and more prone to mature content than D&D's various settings are. That's by design.
We may go further than that line in the future if the storyline and all that suggests it.
I would love to see that line trod again. And preferably crossed. But not in the style of BoVD - imho, that book was trash. It was arbitrary, prejudicial, and generally hypocritically gleeful of its topics. I like what PF has done so far and would enjoy seeing more.
But then, my group is a who's-who of twisted, jaded individuals. So there's that. (Although oddly enough, for as much as they are that way, they sure like fighting that stuff in-game even more.)