LOL, got that right. The massive ears are too anime for my taste.
I really like having a game to play that doesnt look like it was vomited by anime fan boys.
On behalf of Mike, et al: Ouch, Xeen!
But I agree, the elves looked downright mean and scary- and not in a good way.
Goblin Squad Member
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Elves: first impression on the character creation screen. I never realized that elves are that ugly. I actually had to go check out some pathfinder art work to assure myself their ears are really that big.
I thought the female elf was almost angry looking at the character creation screen ... scary angry ;) But in game seemed to look much nicer.
Like others, I like the new map area and the fact that you need resources from a lot of different areas it seems. Look forward to having auction house and bank. The slow XP build will take some getting used to .. definitely makes it tough to pick between different options at the start but that is good.
Drop rates though do seem rather low but is this by design? Is the drop rate related to the anticipated player population at some point so that rare items stay rare? At the moment some items seem extremely rare.
I covered 25+ hexes without major issues .. I did have one CTD when just standing in a starter town .. Rathglen I think. And today before the server issues I was getting rubberbanding and such .. also had issues with crafting not showing recipes I know I knew .. don't think this is related to the scroll issue as I only had 2 or 3 recipes and so no scroll bar.
Tooltips are a great plus but wrapping them so they don't extend off the right and left sides of the screen will help.
Overall, this is a much better experience than 7.
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it." I realized how true that is of me when I made Nihimon an Elf in Alpha 8.1.
In my mind, Elves are beautiful; even the males would look beautiful and androgynous. And yet, I find myself kind of liking these Pathfinder Elves :)
What ever happened it D&D elves? Shorter then humans with pointy human ears... You know, like Spock, or maybe LotR.
Although I did see a comment scroll by last night about Nihimon's character looking a lot like Spock, so maybe that isn't the best comparison... :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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Honestly I don't like the elves at all, but I'm just waiting/hoping for tieflings. I hate poison elf ears with a passion. If that is what pathfinder elves are like I knew there was a reason I'm not a fan of the system. ;) The faces look they fell down the ugly tree hitting every branch on the way down. Elves should look alien though so mission accomplished there.
Though I still feel combat is clunky it's improved for sure. Groups of mobs are still too leashed to their start point making killing big groups way too easy for someone solo. Shamans are mean and actually fairly dangerous; good job there! I have to be careful with ogre hurlers so that's good too.
I didn't realize there was a patch between yesterday and today. I kept the intermediate starting window up so I entered the game without patching. There were no mobs or gathering nodes in the game at all so that clued me in that I should restart everything. There should probably be some game version matching to get into the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Great comments and ALL OF IT belongs on the alpha forums.
The Alpha forums are, well, unpolished. In particular, the lack of a Search function is keeping me from moving over there full time. If I don't know what thread in what section contains a given bit of information, I have to open all the sections, and sometimes all the threads in a section, to find it. That compares rather poorly to the Search feature here.
Lack of avatars: No big deal.
Lack of favorites/up- and down-votes: No big deal.
Lack of Search: Not ready for prime time.
Edit: It's true that right now, this isn't a huge inconvenience, because the total number of threads isn't that large. Give it a few weeks with everyone posting over there instead of here, and it will become more of a problem. For now, I'm just sticking to the already-functional message board.
Well thanks to some awesome people in this community I have alpha access sadly I can't really give feedback as I can get into game and goblinworks.com and alpha forums seem broken.
As someone interested in this game I hope the peeps making the game realize how bad this can make people cringe when they come to check this game out as we gamers are sadly not known for our great patience lol.
So my feedback is please get goblinworks.com and the alpha forums running fast and smooth asap!
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...we gamers are sadly not known for our great patience...
As with many other things about PFO being different from what came before, you'll find this community much more patient--partially because it's skewing older than usual--and willing to postpone things until they're ready. Alpha can last, in the eyes of many, as long as it needs to.
Alpha can last, in the eyes of many, as long as it needs to.Absolutely, but it doesn't look like it will last as long as it should!
And I didn't mean to suggest otherwise but I am sure you can agree getting the alpha forums/main site in proper working order should be a priority.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I haven't lost anything yet.On the other hand, some lost so many weapons and armour that they pointed out to Ryan that he may need to add distributors for replacement Softwood Clubs and Peasant Clothes, depending on when repair will enter the game. The "two points of Durability lost on only one death" bug is pretty scary when it hits, too.
Durability loss on more than death is just like perma-death: one can simulate it upon oneself easily enough without making all those less skilled at survival face the same challenge.
Wizards and archers are pretty much fine as they do not necessarily need armor to survive and are getting far higher kill rates than melee fighters and hence more drops.
The durability issue has simply made it even more optimal to fight ranged in game.
Unfortunately if you are not "gaming the game" and playing a wizard in plate or unrealistically kiting archer then starter characters trying to play melee because its "in character" (dwarven cleric and fighters etc) are basically struggling to get enough weapon drops to replace their current weapons before they expire.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I start combat sprinting, I'm able to keep sprinting while firing my bow. It makes my life a lot easier since nothing can ever catch up, as long as there aren't any powerful ranged creatures in a group I can wipe out anything, even large camps - just sprinting and shooting.
Seems like a simple thing to fix: using a combat ability disables sprint for as long as you remain in combat.
I disagree with this. Sprinting is essential in combat. I think firing your bow while you run in a circle around the enemies needs to go.
Stam just needs to be there. That's the only issue. We're talking making bows go from OP to a very niche weapon as soon as they make it so you can't really run while shooting.
If you have a long bow, you don't need to sprint though. Secret skillz.
I think firing while you run with your bow should be in the game at some point, but I think it should be a very late game ability. It seems awesome to imagine bandits coming out and swarming you while they are assaulting you with arrows. But going to the rogue free-bow man, going out with your bow as a (whatever) and soloing everything except groups of large ranged foes... is lame.
The fix for this is already in game in the form of enemies with a ranged attack.
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it."
Sorry to be so blunt about it.
This is the emotional bias aspect of the sunk cost fallacy and often used in financial scams. While PFO is not a scam in itself I'm kind of terrified that aspects of one is mentioned in context of PFOs marketing.|
Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it."Sorry to be so blunt about it.
This is the emotional bias aspect of the sunk cost fallacy and often used in financial scams. While PFO is not a scam in itself I'm kind of terrified that aspects of one is mentioned in context of PFOs marketing.
I am constantly amazed and thankful that you are always willing to voice an honest opinion, regardless of its popularity.
Thanks Papaver
Great comments and ALL OF IT belongs on the alpha forums.
Nevertheless, Proxima has a point. Next time I won't be creating a thread like this on the Paizo forum. Too much bad publicity at the very least. We gamers are too predisposed to negativity >.<
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it."Sorry to be so blunt about it.
This is the emotional bias aspect of the sunk cost fallacy and often used in financial scams. While PFO is not a scam in itself I'm kind of terrified that aspects of one is mentioned in context of PFOs marketing.
Or more prone to forgive its flaws. Which is pretty much the same, I'll admit. However, you could also read it as a reality check by Ryan for himself, that the real proof of how good the product is, still has to be proven by less invested people.
I hope GW are not blinded by the praise and forgiveness that is shown by the current community. As it is now, I find the product too bare and clumsy to play it. Also some favorite mechanics still missing for me personally, which is par for the course, obviously. :D I am thinking the game may get traction for me once the Economy is truly working so that could be at least a year from now.
I also believe that small hardcore alpha communities have some sort of life-spark on their own, that will keep on trucking for a long time, no matter how flawed the product is. The social aspect of it is just too good to pass on for them.
Also, sspitfire, you are still on a guilt-trip for that "Destiny-graphics" thread, so forgive me if I do not agree with you on people expressing their feelings, any feelings, on the Paizo forum. :D I agree with you on making this thread.
The game has no NDA, they better get used to criticism. As long as it does not brake any forum rules,it should be allowed. A healthy discussion is better then fanboism.
I will end with a positive: the armors are incredably looking already, and we are still so early in development. Can't imagine how good it will look 2 years from now. Also, the Raw/Refined/Craft system *almost* has me hooked already. It is going to be fantastic. Just needs more finish and an Economy.
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The game has no NDA, they better get used to criticism. As long as it does not brake any forum rules,it should be allowed. A healthy discussion is better then fanboism.
This. This, this, this. Goblinworks is developing the game in the open. No NDA, no requirement to keep secrets. Open discussion of the game's merits and flaws is good. Remember, they want the game to grow EVE-style, like this, not to burn brightly and flare out early, like so many other MMOs. If frank discussion of the negatives and the positives prevents a flare-up (and the accompanying steady decline until the plug is pulled), I think that's good.
When we get a working economy, people will hear that it's working, and come check it out. When we get company feuds and settlement wars, people will come to see those, too.
Goblinworks isn't trying to hide the development of the game, warts, setbacks and all. I don't think we should, either.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it."Sorry to be so blunt about it.
This is the emotional bias aspect of the sunk cost fallacy and often used in financial scams. While PFO is not a scam in itself I'm kind of terrified that aspects of one is mentioned in context of PFOs marketing.
Coincidence is not necessarily cause. Just because scams take unfair advantage of something doesn't mean wherever you find that 'something' there is a scam. If every crime in the country is committed by a person born there, it doesn't mean everyone born there is a criminal.
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it." I realized how true that is of me when I made Nihimon an Elf in Alpha 8.1.
The problem with this quote is that it results in an echo chamber where you have a very small group cheering on things that the average person would immediately realize is a bad idea...
Many... many games have been sunk because of the echo chamber effect.
It is happening here. Just a couple examples from the kickstarter...
1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training.
I know it is improbable to create... we are not grinding for xp, but for loot instead... I do not see this as a problem really Not so much praised by the $$ backers as its normal.
2. No Classes- Unlike other games that give you a narrow range of abilities as you train your class, in Pathfinder you gain levels in different Roles based off what you have trained.
This is a failure, but the big money backers will completely throw a fit if you tell them that.
3. Player Structures- Build your own homes, taverns, farms, and even cities! The Pathfinder Online world will be filled with places players can use to build and customize their own homes, businesses and communities.
No complaints or praises from anyone here as its going to happen in most ways... though I think homes is a waste of time.
4. More Than A Gankfest- Unlike other Open World PVP MMO's currently on the market, Pathfinder Online actively discourages meaningless PVP. A meaningful alignment system that actually offers mechanical advantages to lawful and good aligned organizations, and a functional bounty system that allows the player to choose which players and organizations can collect the bounties they set discourages random and meaningless killing. Beyond this, the admins are taking a hard stance against 'griefing', in which players specifically seek to ruin the experience of other players, often through using game mechanics in ways that weren't intended. Griefing in PFO can be a bannable offence.
Here the fan boys will applaud the changes away from an Open World PVP MMO. Heh, bounties are consider meaningful according to this.. so killing for money is ok... but the opposite has taken effect and the $$$$ backers applaud it. A large number of people who are interested in PVP, but are not griefers, have decided no not put much time or effort into the game
As is right now, there is no PVP. If you PVP then you have no character.
5. All Players are Useful- This won't be like games where a new player has 49 health and a veteran has 49,000. The attacks from that new player won't automatically miss the veteran. A new player will be weaker, but still able to make a meaningful contribution to combat. As a sandbox where group sizes aren't limited, this means all players are useful, and don't have to segregate themselves by level.
Here is as big of one as #4. Group sizes are not limited, complete failure... but the $$$$ backers applaud this as well.
6. Trade is Meaningful- In Pathfinder Online players must manually transport items to their intended destination. Most shops are player-run, and there will be goods more abundant in or even exclusive to certain regions. Merchants, traders, and even auctioneers are all viable professions.
Unknown as of now, but no one really comments.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan said something in the EN World interview that really struck me. Paraphrasing, it was something like "if someone gives you $1,000 for something, they're predisposed to really like it."Sorry to be so blunt about it.
This is the emotional bias aspect of the sunk cost fallacy and often used in financial scams. While PFO is not a scam in itself I'm kind of terrified that aspects of one is mentioned in context of PFOs marketing.
Did we ever have any context to imply that Ryan was claiming this tendency was a good thing, or did he simply state it factually? (i.e., was he saying "we only want those people in alpha because they will be invested in improving the game and helping it succeed in the long term," or "We only want those people in the alpha so that they will give it good PR."?
Without context, there shouldn't be anything terrifying about it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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2. No Classes- Unlike other games that give you a narrow range of abilities as you train your class, in Pathfinder you gain levels in different Roles based off what you have trained.This is a failure, but the big money backers will completely throw a fit if you tell them that.
Not throwing a fit, but although EE hasn't yet begun I am building my character based on what is available. Whatever the ultimate outcome, I'm not focused on class but possibility. Survival, viability, is the driver and not class.
More generally it is unhelpful to categorize people the way you have. Nihimon's reference is a trend rather than a description of individual behaviors.
Your suggestion that those who are invested in the ultimate outcome are a type of person you can deride says uncomplimentary things about you as a person. You don't want to be labeled as a poser, do you? Neither do I want to be labeled stupid.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, made a wizard, a fighter and a rogue. Out of the three, the hardest to level up is the rogue. The slowing point is the subterfuge requirement - which, if I read it right, deals with killing foes with lots of different weapons. Takes forever to get lots of different weapons and then the basic skill in the use of those weapons.
I didn't experience more than one crash the whole weekend. Downloading the game didn't take long for me on Saturday. The patcher loaded quickly. This morning was the slowest it loaded, which took a few minutes.
This may become a morning ritual for me - the night before, log my characters out in front of whoever they need to train with, log in the next morning and spend my overnight xp and then log out and get ready for work. :-)
I did manage to find a draw or defile or whatever you want to call it in the meteor hex where if you fall in, you can't get out. My two other party members thought that was hilarious and jumped in too so all three of us were stuck. The only way we could get out was to suicide. So watch it when you go leaping over ridges, you may land in such a draw.
No fair! Ran into a Skeleton Ranger! How come the bad guys get the cool looking clothes and get to be rangers and we don't? ;-)
Went to Kabal's future home. Very nice looking. Got a bandit problem in the area that we will need to clean out but that's life.
Late last night, there was some kind of escalation in the hex we were in but I didn't receive anything about it on my minimap, one of the other party members did. Nor did I get any information about it in the upper right corner information blurb thingie.
Was totally blown away by the fact that after 3-4 hours of harvesting and killing I had something like 262 coal! Passed it all off to one of our company's members who wants to do crafting. So glad there is no encumbrance yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Late last night, there was some kind of escalation in the hex we were in but I didn't receive anything about it on my minimap, one of the other party members did. Nor did I get any information about it in the upper right corner information blurb thingie.
Was your party member more highly trained in 'local lore'?
(1) Also, sspitfire, you are still on a guilt-trip for that "Destiny-graphics" thread, so forgive me if I do not agree with you on people expressing their feelings, any feelings, on the Paizo forum. :D I agree with you on making this thread.
(2) The game has no NDA, they better get used to criticism. As long as it does not brake any forum rules,it should be allowed. A healthy discussion is better then fanboism.
1. I can determine for myself when I am still on a guilt trip, and I am not ;)
2. I hadn't looked at it from this angle yet, and this is a very good point.
But I still think it is worth while to put some good in with the bad. After all, this is the outwardly facing forum board. If all folks read about is the game's problems, then that is all they will know of it. We have things we like. The potential players should know them too. Otherwise they aren't going to be as interested in playing.
GW should also know what we like. It helps with the stress they are under to get this thing done and done well. Also, if they don't know we like something, they might go changing it for the worse!
Everything Xeen said
If yall want to talk more about this, please do so on a new thread. These are issues to be talked about, for sure; but they have nothing to do with Alpha 8.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I disagree, this is what we are seeing in the game as of Alpha 8. Who opposes it and who approves of it.
Its fine though, but I wont make a new thread as I am not one of the big $$$$ backers (I contributed half what they did)... so my opinion doesnt mean much.
Edit: You know what, I will start a new thread...
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Goblin Squad Member
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How much money you contribute does not affect the value of your ideas. Money doesn't do that except insofar as people think it does. At the same time the simple fact of wealth also doesn't make you like every other person who has wealth, and it doesn't make you different from somebody who hasn't wealth.
"Oh! <snicker> He's wearing blue shoes! One of those blue shoe wearing people: You know everything about him since his shoes are blue.
Really, Xeen, you are better than that. Or if not, I and most folks here are, despite your horsepucky.
Thank you, Xeen.
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I know you have all been waiting on pins and needles for my feedback (rolleyes). I will start by saying build 8, unlike build 7, is actually an enjoyable gaming experience and mildly addictive. I still stand by my opinion that EE should start mid October, at the EARLIEST. There is just too much vital stuff missing or broken and the art team needs at least another month's worth of stuff. Again I reiterate, there is a difference between simple and unfinished.
Some notes.
artwork
The dwarves look really really good for 1st iteration. The beard colors are not matching the hair colors pretty much forcing dwarves to go bald for now. Otherwise it's a great version 1.
The elves actually look pretty nifty but there are two clear cut mistakes in the artwork.
- The male elves look ridiculous with the ears sticking straight up in the air like batman/doberman pincher. The need an angle to them both backwards and to the side.
- The female models have their shoulders way too far out. They need to be tucked in a couple pushes.
The terrain and buildings are looking pretty good for the phase we are in.
Animations are improved but still a lot missing, Icons still way to many missing.
The few sounds in the game are splendid. I do not believe more sound is necessary for EE launch, but it's a good sign that the devs have picked well so far.
features
Party features, banks, and auction house all missing. Company creation is an absolute must for day 1 of EE. These are the basic social structures of the game I don't see how this can be PFO without them in. I would really hate to see EE launch without these things both implemented and working basically well.
Achievements are working nicely. If any part of the game is ready to go, it's definitely the adventuring/gathering/escalations part.
combat
Melee is in better shape than it was with the forgiveness, still needs work and targeting continues to be the biggest weakness of the entire game. There seem to be just too much feats you can buy that don't do anything yet.
optimization
Much better but everyone I talked to was still crashing regularly about once an hour. Build 8 is not a smooth experience, but it's certainly not the the practically unplayable build 7.
TLDR: The game is already fun and build 8 was in fact a quantum leap. But I am still afraid that GW is leaving themselves open to catastrophe even in the most limited of releases if they monetize in this current state. I still think EE should start mid to late October.
GREAT review Avari. Glad you posted all of this. I wholeheartedly support and agree with your analysis.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Pathfinder elves are not Tolkien elves; they aren't the perfect race from which lesser races developed.
Pathfinder elves are literally from a different planet. They should look alien because they are literally aliens, and I think making their proportions slightly off is a great way to make that happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Pathfinder elves are not Tolkien elves; they aren't the perfect race from which lesser races developed.
Pathfinder elves are literally from a different planet. They should look alien because they are literally aliens, and I think making their proportions slightly off is a great way to make that happen.
You will have to admit though that the elves on this page look quit beautiful.
Well, maybe not this one: a homely, troubled Elf
@ Caldeathe & Jazz, thank you for handling that gently.
@ Fiendish, Thank you for not running away or getting mad about being chided :)
I agree with both views on the elf art. Overall, though, I think people expect prettier elves and, as Tynacle and Fiendish have pointed out, Pathfinder artwork and descriptions are biased towards prettier elves. At the very least, I would personally love to see some happier elf face options.