Make all wooden doors moist? Won't burn as well or as quickly. Also if the other players have mentioned they are feeling useless speak with the person in question and let him know that he is overcasting the other players. If he is a good role player he should understand that this is a group game, not a single hero with a group of companions game.
Also by avoiding the audit of his character and talking with him first it will help with building trust I feel.
Well, the main thing is that Elemental ray doesn't do 1d6 damage per level. It does 1d6 damage, plus 1 per TWO levels. At level three his elemental ray should be doing 1d6+1.
Edit: Actually I guess he could be doing 1d6+3 if he's using the Ifrit favored class bonus.
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Even worse, his absurdly high Charisma means he gets loads of bonus spell slots, which he makes liberal use of with the Quicken metamagic feat to cast two spells per turn.
First off, how is he applying quicken at all? At 3rd level he can still only cast 1st level spells. Quicken applies a 4 level spell adjustment and he would need to be 10th level in order to cast a quickened 1st level spell.
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He shouldn't do 3d6 damage with an elemental ray. He should do 1d6+2 fire damage. Wooden doors have 10, 15 or 20 hit points. Next time he tries to burn down a door though, explain how the fire quickly spreads through the entire room.
Technically, the salvaging thing wouldn't bother me. If it gets irritating, ask for craft (taxidermy) checks the next time he tries to skin a lion.
If he has 7 elemental rays, he only has a charisma of 16 (+2 from his racial ability). That's not very high, considering he could have a charisma of 20 (counts as 22 for his sorcerer class abilities and spellcasting.)
Just throw more side-quests at the party to sate his gold thirst. PC's love side-quests.
If he is scavenging everything, start following encumbrance rules carefully. That will slow down his movement by a chunk.
Get a copy of every character's sheet. That way you know exactly what every character can and can not do, and whether it is legal or not. That will solve almost all your problems beforehand.
-a level 3 casting quickened spells the first weird thing. REVISE IT ASAP
-as much, his charisma must be 20. Thats 7 1st level spells (5base+2bonus). Nice, but a wizard will have like 4 1st and 3 2nd with only 18 Int, so no OP at all.
-Ifrits get +1 caster level to domain based spells, thats for divine casters with domain only.
- his score is like 2 points higher for bloodline powers, +1 DC and +1 use. Thats all.
-+30 feet movement at lvl15: from elemental bloodline. OK.
-changing elemental resistance for +4 to initiative: OK and smart, as he nows receive 10 resistance from his bloodline.
-30feet for wis penalty: its not core and bothers you. Don't allow.
-He can use elemental ray 9 times for 1d6+2 fire. Nice. Its 30 feet range, remember, and can't be casted middle movement. Its before of after movement.
hope that helps, since the complete character sheet is not easy to audit it.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Apparently, the bonus spell slots from having high Charisma can be used with the Quicken metamagic feat. A quickened 1st level spell is still castable by any character that can cast 1st level spells, as long as they have an open 5th level spell slot.Considering Quicken is a +4 spell level adjustment he would need to be able to cast 5th level spells before being able to quicken a 1st level spell.
He doesn't have any 5th-level spell slots.
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Apparently, the bonus spell slots from having high Charisma can be used with the Quicken metamagic feat. A quickened 1st level spell is still castable by any character that can cast 1st level spells, as long as they have an open 5th level spell slot.Considering Quicken is a +4 spell level adjustment he would need to be able to cast 5th level spells before being able to quicken a 1st level spell.
Which at third level he wouldn't have access to.
Also, don't over-do it on "rule of cool". A giant frog's tongue can most certainly NOT be used as a whip unless you decide to allow it as GM. Otherwise he's swinging around a rotting piece of meat that is at best a rapidly degrading improvised weapon with -4 to hit, probably doing 1d4 bludgeoning damage with none of the whip's special affects. As a sorcerer, he's not proficient with a whip without feats anyway.
About using slots still not adquired, the developer SKR said: You don't get bonus spell slots for a spell level until your class level is high enough to grant you the non-bonus spell slots for that spell level.
yeah, it definitely sounds as though there are some significant issues...
as mentioned there's no way he could quicken a spell at 3rd level unless you've given him a quicken rod (which is worth way too much gold at his level and would be totally your own fault), and he's using the wrong damage for elemental ray. as for the base speed thing- i'm pretty familiar with the rules and i can't think of anything that would let him trade -2 wisdom for +30 movement. he could add 30 to his move if he cast expeditious retreat but that lasts a relatively short time. posting a character sheet would definitely be helpful (and if these are honest mistakes he shouldn't be offended by that at all).
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He sold the whip for how much? :')
according to crafting rules its a DC 18 craft weapons check to create an exotic melee weapon. How high is his intelligence?
Best case scenario he nails the DC rolling really high... the whip being a corner case with the measly value of 1gp.
DC*check result = progress value in silver pieces (10 in this case)
so 18*18=324 324/7=46sp enough to make 4'5 whips for a day's work or one whip in about 2 hours.
he had to pay 1/3 of the value in material(we waive this cost because frog tongue)
Items sell for half value so for two hours of work he gets 5sp (2sp if we don't waive the craft material price)
That is if he doesnt botch the check(I would'nt allow taking 10 with limited crafting materials)
TL;DR
if you follow the rules crafting is really not worth it
Edit: and +1 to what others have said.
OP You don't want to antagonize your player though and make this a rules knowledge pissing contest.
I woud ask the player to tone down a bit that playstyle, it's better if you reach an agreement.
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Regarding burning wooden doors - just because they're made of wood and therefore flammable, doesn't mean they burn quickly. When you build a fire in a fireplace, and put a couple of little pieces of wood in there, it takes a LONG time for them to burn to the point where they're breakable. And they're usually positioned on a rack to allow for proper air flow, with a chimney above for ventilation.
A door stands upright in a tight-fitting frame. A fire spell would do half-damage of the expected damage amount. To get the door to actually catch fire at that point shouldn't be automatic. Lighting a wood fire generally requires some easily-ignitable tinder to catch and keep the fire burning there for a while, allowing the larger blocks of wood have time to catch. Is he taking the time to position tinder? Probably needs to be something more substantial than just a few pieces of crumpled paper...
Even if you decide to allow the door to catch fire at that point, the fire is going to burn upward on the surface of the wood, and cause lots of smoke that has nowhere to go except into the room where the PCs are standing.
In other words - your player is apparently very good at fast-talking you into accepting reasons for letting him get away with stuff, much of which is outrageously unbalanced. And he also apparently looks only for interpretations of rules and situations that are in his favor, not what makes for a good game for the whole group. Stop and think about whether what he's proposing at any given time really makes sense, and don't be so willing to let him get away with stuff like this. It's okay to say no - and based on these examples, he's being abusive of the rules and spirit of the game, so it's important for the group's enjoyment that you do say no to him on stuff like this.
And let him know that he shouldn't be trying so hard to abuse the spirit of the rules and to outshine all the other players - this is a group cooperative activity.
He's a level 3 Ifrit Sorcerer with either the Elemental (fire) or the Efreeti bloodline, but I suspect that he thinks he can use both, since he uses Elemental ray (from the elemental bloodline)
It sounds like he is an Ifrit (race) Sorcerer (class) with the Elemental (Fire) bloodline. He may be crossblooded, but I am going with the assumption that is NOT the case for the purpose of this post.
but he claims that at level 15 he'll get an additional +30 ft. to his base speed (from the Efreeti bloodline).
True with either the efreeti or elemental (fire) bloodline. However at level 15 additional movement isn't a massive benefit.
He took the Wildfire Heart alternate racial trait, which replaces his fire resistance with a +4 initiative bonus.
Legit. He gains fire resistance from his bloodline anyway so it would be something that he would want to replace. If it bothers you, you may want to houserule it as getting the Improved Initiative feat so he can't stack the trait with it.
He also claims to have taken an alternate racial trait that gave him +30 ft. of base speed in exchange for a Wisdom penalty, but I can't seem to find that particular trait anywhere, although I do remember seeing it before.
Nothing I've ever heard of. Strongly advise to disallow it.
His Charisma is stupidly high, which means that, with the Ifrit Fire Affinity racial trait, he can use Elemental Ray around 7 times per day, and with the combination of his Sorcerer levels and the Favored Class Bonus that an Ifrit gets, each of those 7 Elemental Rays does 3d6 damage.
He does get loads of elemental rays. 3 + Cha mod + 1 for Ifrit Fire Affinty. If his charisma is 20, it is 9 times a day. He is however greatly mistaken about the damage he is dealing. At third level it's 1d6+1. There are ways he could increase the damage.... Arcane Strike, Precise Shot, a bard's Inspire Courage, which combined would make it 1d6+4. The base damage is 1d6 + (sorcerer level/2 )
Even worse, his absurdly high Charisma means he gets loads of bonus spell slots, which he makes liberal use of with the Quicken metamagic feat to cast two spells per turn.
No. At least not yet. Quicken Spells require spell slots 4 levels higher then the spell they are enchancing. In other words he needs to use 5th level spell slots to quicken a level 1 spell which he won't get until level 10. It's still a good feat even so, but first level spells start to look a lot less exciting at level 10.
I posted a thread a little while ago, but due to a lack of input on my part nothing came of it, so I'll briefly recap:
I don't mean this to sound rude, but it should be pointed out that nothing came of it because you abandoned the thread after posting the question. Many people asked for you to post more information about the character, and while you've given that information here, this post should more properly be added to the previous thread. It's not against the community rules to start a new thread, but in my experience, it is generally considered undesirable to start a new thread when a recent thread on the same topic exists. Posting to the older thread would bump it up to the active discussions again, so if you're worried about your reply going unnoticed in the forum, you needn't be. If you're worried about a little bit of threadjacking (diverting the topic of a discussion mid-thread) that happened after you posted, your reply would bring it back on topic. No big deal. You get used to it.
I have a player whose 3rd level character is vastly more powerful than the other characters in the group.
As other people have pointed out, it seems like the general point is that he's either accidentally or intentionally misinterpreting the rules to his advantage. That happens when people are new to the game, and I've recently seen it happen with a guy who's been playing RPGs for nearly 40 years. If something seems to give him an unfair advantage, there are two possibilities. Either someone is misinterpreting the rules, or he's playing a Summoner. *rimshot*
Basically, it comes down to the two of you agreeing on what the rules are trying to say. Have him show you every way in which he got those extra powers, and read the rules surrounding how he acquired them and how he is applying them. As others have pointed out, he's misinterpreting the elemental ray description, and there's no way he could be casting a quickened spell at 3rd level. He couldn't even cast a quickened cantrip until level 8, when a sorcerer gets 4th level spells.
It's hard to say what else you two are misinterpreting without you posting his whole character sheet here, but your best course of action is to read the rules for every ability he took.
I posted a thread a little while ago, but due to a lack of input on my part nothing came of it, so I'll briefly recap:I don't mean this to sound rude, but it should be pointed out that nothing came of it because you abandoned the thread after posting the question.
He admitted as such.
He admitted as such.I posted a thread a little while ago, but due to a lack of input on my part nothing came of it, so I'll briefly recap:I don't mean this to sound rude, but it should be pointed out that nothing came of it because you abandoned the thread after posting the question.
I got that, but he might not know that this would still be appropriate to post there.
ETA: Also, since the last thread, I looked and noticed that this same user started and abandoned three other threads, two of which were the same question, much like this, so I thought someone should let him know. I really am not trying to come off like a self-appointed moderator; just trying to be neighborly.
He does get loads of elemental rays. 3 + Cha mod + 1 for Ifrit Fire Affinty. If his charisma is 20, it is 9 times a day. He is however greatly mistaken about the damage he is dealing. At third level it's 1d6+1. There are ways he could increase the damage.... Arcane Strike, Precise Shot, a bard's Inspire Courage, which combined would make it 1d6+4.
You can put Arcane Strike on your bloodline/school ray effects? I had no idea.
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Supporting thread that I made when I was a Pathfinder beginner.
Basically the argument basically goes - arcane strike enhances weapons, rays are considered weapons, therefore arcane strikes works with rays. It's also not exactly game breaking.
Most points are adressed already. One thing I want to add:
If the player comes up with some obscure trait (like the speed-for-wisdom exchange), he needs to give (or at least point you to) the source for that, and it is up to you to declare that particular source ok in your game. There are tons of unbalanced obscure rules additions out there.
Oh, and if he picks up various odds and ends everywhere, and uses that stuff creatively, this can be quite interesting and can add to the game, if he thinks out of the box.
OTOH, selling giant frog tongue whips and (human?) femur clubs won´t get him neither much money nor much standing as a hero. Considering his exotic race, I can easily see that character ostracized or even put into jail for grave robbing.
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Just something I wanted to note:
First off: talk to your player. Remind them that this is a cooperative game, and if only he is having fun, then it's really just the 'Iffriti sorcerer show!" If he still doesn't reign it in, then you can start pulling mean tricks on him.
We've all dealt with players who try to scrounge everything for all the extra cash they can get. Here is the bottom line: The core book gives a good estimate about how much money the PCs should have AS A PARTY at any given level. If he is skinning wolves and picking up bone dust for spell components, then reduce the amount of money they get at the end of the adventure.
Also, you are in charge of dolling out magical items and such. I DOUBT he's going to get item creation feats, and so guess what, all of that gold he gets? He is going to have to spend it buying items and making himself up to snuff, meanwhile the cleric is enjoying his shiny new +1 Returning throwing hammer of disruption that he happened to find in a dungeon. Huh, it's weird that no sorcerer stuff has come up in a while. If he wants to start buying game breaking stuff, tell him 'nope, not in this town, that item isn't here.'
YOu can't infuse a ray with Arcane Strike, it's not a material object. It doesn't exist until the moment you use it.
It's like trying to argue you could cast Greater Magic Weapon on your ray.
==Aelryinth
There is a thread that I linked above that shows people who disagree with that statement. Though I agree Magic Weapon doesn't work, but Arcane Strike is just your weapons for the round and specifically does not require a target for it.
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Aelryinth.
Arcane strike does not enchant a certain weapon when you use it. It enhances all your weapon damage for the round.
A play can easily be holding a dagger....use arcane strike. Drop the dagger. Draw his bow and shoot gaining benifits from arcane strike.
Arcane strike applies to all your weapons in the round you use it. That includes all types of weapons. Rays are weapons.
There has been many a player who says it does not work but the developers have made many rulings that it does work. It is also FAQed. It also works with other spells deemed weapons.
Another cool thing to know is b ardic performance works with rays as well. So if a player wants to get more damage from his rays he should roll with another player who can use performances.
I do think we are getting a little off topic here though.
Aelryinth.
Arcane strike does not enchant a certain weapon when you use it. It enhances all your weapon damage for the round.A play can easily be holding a dagger....use arcane strike. Drop the dagger. Draw his bow and shoot gaining benifits from arcane strike.
Arcane strike applies to all your weapons in the round you use it. That includes all types of weapons. Rays are weapons.
There has been many a player who says it does not work but the developers have made many rulings that it does work. It is also FAQed. It also works with other spells deemed weapons.
Another cool thing to know is b ardic performance works with rays as well. So if a player wants to get more damage from his rays he should roll with another player who can use performances.
Let me be very specific here.
The devs have made several rulings that rays can count as weapons for the purposes of several feats and effects (notably, weapon spec and improved crit and weapon focus).
Are you saying they've specifically made a ruling that allows Arcane Strike damage to apply to rays and other weapon-like spells?
==Aelryinth
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Building this out. Here is what I got to simulate that character. A thing of note is there is no documentation of any race trait that gives +30 movement for ifrit.
Level 3 Ifrit Sorcerer(Elemental Fire)
20 point buy
Str: 7
Dex: 18
Con: 11
Int: 7
Wis: 8
Cha: 20
Movement: 30 ft
Initiative: +12
HP: 14ish
AC: 14
Elemental Ray(as level 4 and +2 Cha):9/day; +5 attack, 1d6+2 damage
1st level spell slots: 5
Resist fire 10
Favored Class: +1/2 level for Elemental ray, taken 3 times (+1 level)
This is assuming Improved Initiative was taken. I assume he used the 3rd level slot for Quicken metamagic feat, which is totally useless by the rules at this level. That leaves this build with a single open feat slot.
There is nothing spectacular about this build, other than it will go first maybe half the time. Other than that, it is on par with most optimized builds for blasters.
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Rule Problems/ Rule Misinterpretations/Made-up stuff
Racial trait adding +30 movement for a wisdom penalty, can find any trace of its existence.
Quicken using spell slots you don't have, just because you will gain a bonus slot once you do have them later.
The general thought that he has the following spell slots: 1st=5, 2nd=1, 3rd=1, 4th=1, 5th=1
Elemental ray doing 3d6 instead of 1d6+2
Elemental Ray(as level 4 and +2 Cha):9/day; +5 attack, 1d6+2 damage
Nope. It is as level 3 and 1d6+1 damage.
Fire Affinity: Ifrit sorcerers with the elemental (fire) bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities. Ifrit spellcasters with the Fire domain use their domain powers and spells at +1 caster level.
Sorcerers don't have a domain, that would be clerics and their ilk, so lets remove the part that doesn't matter.
Fire Affinity: Ifrit sorcerers with the elemental (fire) bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities.
Which is still pretty good, and more or less amounts to +1 DC on every spell you cast as a racial trait.
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Favored Class x3 = + 1 level, so it is relevant. Treated as level four for Elemental Ray only. I have adjusted the previous post to note that
Sorcerer Choose a bloodline power from the elemental (fire) bloodline or the efreeti bloodline that the sorcerer can use. The sorcerer treats her class level as though it were +1/2 higher (to a maximum of +4) when determining the effects of that power.
Ahhh true, I wasn't considering favored class benefits. I misunderstood the source you were getting it from.
That is actually very interesting. If you could somehow rush and get the Robe of Arcane Heritage early that favored class benefit is particularly good. That leaves me something to ponder.
One thing I learned in PFS play was that Acid Splash essentially replaces rogues for quietly entering buildings. It takes a lot of time, but it eventually works. My party found a place to hide in an alleyway and bored in through a wall.
So I imagine fire works the same, except it causes light, heat and generally much more ado. I don't know about rules for catching fire, but eventually damage will work. I'd just expect the whole dungeon to be waiting on the other side.