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41 posts. Alias of Oath.


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While I understand the representation angle, I will miss when heroic characters were aspirational figures.


Noven wrote:
My group came up with the awesome idea to disguise their ship using the IFF codes from the last Kish transport that serviced the station. They then rolled awesome computer, engineer and physical science rolls to board the Stellar Degenerator, manage to steer it into one of the stars. Singe they had a command over the Kish language, kept rolling good skill checks, I saw no need for them to be railroaded into a really bah idea to Han Solo the Empire of Bones. With a team of four and no GM prodding there was just no reason to assume this was the best course of action. Good thing it was in campaign mode SFS because making them do the boarding action seems pretty silly. There needs to be a better compelling reason to board the ship.

I love this. My group got railroaded into the dumb slog through the Empire of Bones and I honestly can't wait for the AP to be over at this point. It is such predictable Paizo module design and not being allowed to perform creative acts to overcome anything is making it worse. We wasted an entire night brainstorming and working out details only to just find out it isn't want the module needed for us to win.

We essentially just decided to walk into every obvious trap and fight through since it just wastes time and resources to do otherwise.


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We've been down to 3 PCs and an 8th level Pregen for parts 5 and 6. The DM is keeping us to L9 so far in the final book. It is a slog, but we only were in real danger once.

Edit: What I should add, a large party would need to have combat greatly upgraded in order to create any feelings of desperation. One pain point for our small party though was lack of skills in certain areas. So there is that.


Honestly, Starfinder doesn't need PF2 to kill it. As much as I want to love it, and while I plan to finish my Dead Suns campaign, I don't think I will continue with this game afterwards. The gear grind is annoying as hell.

As for the Osbourne effect, well, there are always new shiny things all the time from many companies. I don't think it is relevant here. What might be relevant is that players with a huge PF1 investment realize they are about to start a new round or purchases, they might start considering 5E, Genesys, 2d20, etc.


Looks like I'm going to have to tank. So AC is going to be key. I also realized with a reach weapon and large size I'll have 15' range on attacks. I think it might make sense to be a High AC, Area Denial type of combatant. Get in the front fast and plant myself as the center of interest for enemy targeting.


This is very interesting. I don't really care about Level 20 builds as much as I do how a build handles on the way. I'm about to start Dead Suns (Levels 1-12) and this Blitzarian build might be more interesting than as pure build of either... Also thinking about a Dragonkin for the reach and wings. I'll probably never have the chance to play one again...


My biggest problem is the level-locking of weapons. The weapons themselves increase in damage in a progression that is so far beyond what even 3.5 did it feels like the designers chose exactly the wrong lessons learned in the name of innovation. That a longsword progresses from 1d8 to 4d8 by level 11 (to eventually 14d8) evokes the MMO gear grind. And the only in-game reason a level 5 character can never loot that epic longsword is the game mechanic won't allow it.


The problem with the situation isn't game mechanics. That being said, nightly murder sprees should draw in-game attention from someone that can handle a lone cleric, eh?

I wouldn't even get into that situation though as there are a lot of "rules" situation that break the game. This isn't Magic the Gathering.


The mathy folks that play might enjoy counting ammo to finish off a power pack with autofire. 3 enemies left? I got 13 rounds left, let's hit all three...


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Bravetoaster wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Because it's a Special. Those aren't included in Subscriptions is my understanding.
Right, it's just kind of odd it wouldn't be included. Aren't the point of subscriptions to ensure you get all of the releases for whatever the topic/product is?

Right, and you do, except for the Specials, which are an incentive to go to Cons.

Not for nothing, but the only incentive to subscribe to "everything" is to get the scenarios. 3rd party sites sell everything for cheaper. Since I can buy this rightr now for $4.99, the Con incentive is false. It is just being nickel-and-dimed.


I think you meant Tankiest, rather than Tackiest.

That being said, my advice is to talk to your GM in an open and non-accusatory sort of way, rather than creating an in-game-protest/troll character.

You might also want to seek input from the other players to check whether your perception of the situation is grounded.


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The only different between a class skill and a non-class skill is the +3 you get when you add your first rank to the skill. So for the price of a feat (which Soldiers have a lot of) you can have the same +3.

Not perfect, but combine that and that they get 4 skills per level instead of 2, and I think Soldiers are better than they were in PF.


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While both are d20 systems, I think we will find that Starfinder plays very differently in combat.

For one thing, the low-level problem of "Oops, the bad guy critted and you are now dead" has gone away. Anyone who remembers that NPC that carried the 4x crit weapon in an earlier PFS season (can't remember his name right now) will rejoice. I think it was a scythe.

I also like the idea that sentient beings, even goblins, aren't going to be as swattable as flies.

Back to the OP though. I love the new character development elements in SFS. I just hope I can keep the book keeping to a minimum.


Finally, I can find out where I came from.


I guess what I'm trying to say is they are one of the most powerful classes if you play by all the rules :p


Classic "Buffer" Bards are more useful the larger the party is.
Pathfinder has so many class options you can also make a Bard into just about anything.

And then there are the knowledge checks, which MATTER unless your GM eliminates them, but that is like eliminating rolling to hit, honestly.

Beyond that are the CHA skills, which also matter unless your GM doesn't care, and is again like not caring about BAB.


I only hit two scenarios this year, but they were both wonderful (Serpent and Captive).

The mustering experience was so much faster this year that when I showed up "on-time" and didn't see the massive crowd outside, I thought I was mistaken about the start time. I'll almost miss screaming "Level 3 Bard Looking For Group!" as I waded through the mass of humanity...


I'm not usually a super-rules-lawyer guy, but Gary as a great point. I think there was an assumption during the specials that people who showed up to play (and especially the level 8 pregens) were seasoned PFS veterans.


And honestly, it is one of those things
If you are a player: discuss with your GM to create a ritual, quest for it.

If you are a GM: create a ritual for the PCs to interrupt :)


Lemmy wrote:
Anakin also killed a bunch of children with his own hands... And committed many other atrocities. And he still got his redemption.

Horrible writing does not excuse more horrible writing.

Lemmy wrote:

Jamie... is a somewhat unique case... It's like he's the Harley Quinn to Cersei's Joker. He really only did evil stuff when influenced/motivated by his sister. Even in the books, he starts acting more honorable after he distances himself from her.

For someone to actually get redemption, they have to do something from what to redeem themselves.

That all being said I'm trying to understand why people discuss redemption with respect the GoT. That notion is influenced by "kind" Gods, which this world lacks. Those that are intelligent and ruthless prevail here. Those that are overly "good" or overly "evil" end up dying once they come to true power. Trust is also punished.

Yes, there is the single example, but things aren't going well in the south right now. I keep thinking it will be a huge payoff if/when that person also dies... assuming Martin has the guts at this point to do it.


Lord Snow wrote:
Crisischild wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
I wonder if they'll change up how the women were portrayed. They were a bit stereotypicaly irrational during most of the books, with few exceptions.
TBH all of the main characters were utter morons through the entire series. It's one of the series glaring weaknesses.

** spoiler omitted **

Jordan did a really valliant attempt at being inclusive to women in his books, but sometimes it really feels like he never met one.

Exactly this. When I was younger, these books had a huge impact on me. Now I look back on them like I look at some of the TV shows I used to watch. Fond memories, but if they were new today, I'd never make it past the first book/episode due to the weak characterizations.

Heck, even back when I read these I was always wondering why almost every woman, no matter how awesome or powerful, wasn't as smart as my Grandma in almost any category. And every guy was similar in level to my most pigheaded friend.


I was lucky enough to have this Ale at Scotty's last GenCon. It was the best of the specialty brews I've had in 4 years of GenCons (including the Sun King brews. Crisp and complex, yet totally without the ridiculous hoppiness that plagues the micro-brew industry this days.

Oh, and the Shirt looks cool too :)


Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Sense Motive... those are essentially social combat. It doesn't make sense to me that you can take a 10 just because a sword isn't involved. Maybe take as 10 if you are writing a a letter...


Grinding missions for loot feels just way too much like an MMO to me. As tempting as the munchkin in me finds it, in the end I know that the actual at-table experience would be lame.

Picture 4-5 hours of playing the same thing over, knowing the answers and having to keep your mouth shut so as not to ruin it for others. Heck, I just experienced having a 4 star GM as a player on an evergreen. He got frustrated and just started telling us outright where the bad guys were going to be. The GM at the table handled it well (and moved the encounter) but it kinda hurt the fun. It would suck if it was a scenario that had more story than slog, like School of Spirits.

I'd much rather be able to trade boons between "family" members. That intelligent sword would be much more interesting on any character other than one's sorcerer, for example.


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If a player intends to be fully electronic, then they would need to be responsible for having enough power to run the device, just like if they forgot or lost their character sheets.

In either instance they'd end up with a pregen.

It is the same matter of personal responsibility either way.

People can argue all day about machine specs and battery life, but in the end the player is responsible for their stuff. The only way this should matter is if Statistically not Theoretically or Anecdotally tablets/laptops become a problem.


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Regarding the "running out of content" question. I have to say, I find the current amount of content rather daunting. Unless I win the lottery, I won't have time to play a season's worth of content... ever.

I know there are a number of truly dedicated players, but are they a sufficient proportion of the playerbase to need new rules for letting them play even more? There are Scenarios, Modules and APs that all give credit.

Earlier on, someone mentioned that they are trying to keep players from quitting (or moving on to other games) due to lack of content. I don't understand the motivation of loving the game so much they'll quit if they can't play more. Would they not be able to do both if they have the time to run PFS out of content?


For Pathfinder specifically, treating this pulpy world with all the melodrama and camp it deserves. My groups in the past would RP grimdark (and laugh out of game), but it is so much fun to have the PCs actually be funny themselves.

GM :starts describing a road
PC 1 as if he hears the narration: "A Road? LET'S TAKE IT!"
PC 2: "Oh NO! Things have turned a bit grey here!"
PC 3: "Perhaps we should let the godlike narrative voice catch up and describe what we see..."


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What about heightened-empowered-maximized-presdigitation to make Extreme Firehouse Chili.


I've always wanted a Bugle of Destruction...


For me, having done "Core" before when it wasn't an official thing (we just agreed to limit ourselves as a group):

In Core: More pressure to optimize due to limited effectiveness. Lots of pressure for someone to play a Cleric since CLW wand classes are Bard/Druid/Paladin. Two of those don't want to heal and the other is traditionally a weak class in Core.

In Standard: I can play something truly unique, due to options, and still have it turn out OK. But yeah, I can spend days on just coming up with interesting ideas or fiddling with Herolab, since I know pretty much anything I can come up with must exist somehow.

For example: I have an Inquisitor with a spear who gave up inquisitions for the Slayer talent to study a target (which simplified playing him a little). I'm usually the party healer and diplomat/intimidator (marginal in combat)


Mark Hoover wrote:

Hey waitaminute. Slings are counted in the Thrown Weapons category for fighter weapon groups. There's also a feat called Throw Anything that lets you throw improvised weapons. Can you SLING anything?

No I'm not trying to be stupid here. I'm really asking if you can combine the Throw Anything feat chain with a sling so that you could sling, say alchemical splash weapons.

Throw Anything doesn't change the nature of the sling unless you want to throw the sling itself.

As for loading a sling with other items, you can load it with regular stones for a penalty IIRC. In home play I'd allow slung vials with a negative modifier to hit/distance... Though I'd allow Throw Anything as a feat tax to negate that using Rule Zero, not RAW.


If she was a commoner I'd say 10 since there is no apparent muscularity. However PCs are Heroic and their abilities are generally supernatural. This goes especially for monks since they have all sorts of bonuses that are essentially mystical.

So she could be a 20 for all we know.


My personal progression:

I ask two questions:
What does the party need? (Because I like to feel useful)
and
What haven't I played before?

Then:
What Alignments do I enjoy (mostly CG) vs. what fits the campaign/party? I generally avoid LG unless the party agrees we are all going to be within one-step (or so) steps of LG.

What classes fit this criteria?

Then I spend some time narrowing my options based on what looks interesting and what my character's "thing" will be.

--------------------------------

Or if pressed for time, I pick a CG Cleric since they are always useful and fun for me. Having a spell list of "YES!" essentially means you can start out at level one and figure out a path as you go.


Thanks for all the info!

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I see your name is that Lo cutous of Borg?

Yup! He was going to be my Android for Iron Gods, though the campaign didn't make it past the first organizational meeting.


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I noticed that you can run an Adventure Path at home using home-rules and then give out Chronicle Sheets as if they had played pregens.

How would you apply that credit for the chronicles that exist for the level 12+ "modules" I thought characters retire at 12... or is this future planning?


Holy Combination Locks on the doors, keyed to knowing the scripture of the day from whatever deity's holy book is relevant.

D6 damage to non-good to touch
No Disable Device check (since it is a puzzle)

How do they solve it? Either through observation or pretended conversation? Worst comes to worst, they memorize a combination and wait a year :o


One thing I learned in PFS play was that Acid Splash essentially replaces rogues for quietly entering buildings. It takes a lot of time, but it eventually works. My party found a place to hide in an alleyway and bored in through a wall.

So I imagine fire works the same, except it causes light, heat and generally much more ado. I don't know about rules for catching fire, but eventually damage will work. I'd just expect the whole dungeon to be waiting on the other side.


There are some GMs who never get around to reporting. Paper chronicles are key.


Theryon Stormrune wrote:
L'cutus wrote:

DO BUY PRO-FIT!

I know the discussion moved away from that, but it is easy to accidentally buy them so I am bringing it up again.

They are 0.5-1mm too narrow which is just enough to make the cards bend.

Standard-size works fine though.

Okay, a little confused ... do buy or don't buy? Because you're saying they're too narrow?

I buy the Ultra-Pro Pro-Fit inner sleeves for my character and role cards (plus any card that I potentially will mark). They are snug but I don't have problems with cards bending. Then insert those into the Clear Deck Protector sleeves. That way I can mark with a Sharpie for Skill, Powers, Card feats, etc. And it won't rub off or destroy the card once it is sitting inside the Deck Protector sleeve. Works great.

I meant to say DON'T. Maybe there is inconsistency with production, but I had PRO-FIT inner sleeves curling inside my Standard sleeves.


DO BUY PRO-FIT!

I know the discussion moved away from that, but it is easy to accidentally buy them so I am bringing it up again.

They are 0.5-1mm too narrow which is just enough to make the cards bend.

Standard-size works fine though.


I'll be playing a Slayer for my first character in Iron Gods.

Concept:
Android from Torch
Role:
Party Technologist and Trapfinder

[u]25 Point Buy[/u]
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 11

Archetype:
Since I need the Slayer talent for Trapfinding, options are limited.

Traits:
Numerian Archeologist
Local Ties (Adds Knowledge: Engineering)

Slayer Levels:
1) Technologist
2) Slayer Talent: Trapfinding
3) Sneak Attack 1d6, Feat: Power Attack?

This is where I run out of plan. I haven't figured out what weapon to use or really thought through to further levels.

Since this guy will be presumably out front looking for traps, I'd like to maximize survivability and then also contribute to combat. So while a Two-Hander and Power Attack is the obvious choice for damage, especially against constructs, I'm not sure if it is the way to go.