So I may be creating a new character for a party I am currently in, though I have no idea what to create. The current party is level 8 and composed of
A sylph elemental sorcerer who is has demonstrated to be more of a blaster type
A undead lord cleric
A rogue who is focused on archery
A ninja who is focused on melee
Let's avoid 3rd party classes and for the sake of avoiding party too much conflict in the party, paladin is out of the question. I have thought of a cleric of some sort, but I am unsure if we will need a frontline fighter with all the undead present. What should I choose?
How about some kind of CAD fighter with traits and feats that take advantage of flanking opponents. With swarms of undead, it shouldn't be too hard to maneuver yourself into a flanking position.
My thought would go towards Inquisitor or Witch. You have a fairly dark group.
You need real meat. The rogues aren't going to cut it. If the sorcerer stays focused on blasting you'll need CC too.
Recommendation is a generalist druid, battle druid, magus, Warpriest, or Bard (the buffs will keep the rogues working).
Antipaladin is dark AND tanky...
My first thought is a bulky/burly melee type. Fighter, Barbarian, that sort. You've got an arcanist and a divinist (?), so those two bases are covered.
Anti-paladin won't help in the long run because I can't foresee us fighting any good creatures, which means that the anti-paladin's smite good ability would be a complete waste.
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Let's look at this party via The Forge of Combat. Using that metaphor your party has a solid Arm (the cleric), an anvil/hammer (the blasty sorcerer), and two partial Hammers (the ninja and the rogue). If you trust the Sorcerer to handle battlefield control (the job of an anvil) then the party most needs a dedicated Hammer.
The only melee fighters are a Ninja (not a frontliner!) and some undead servants (they won't last long up front). It might be that the Undead Lord's undead horde is sufficient in the meat shield role, but probably only for the cleric. This party badly needs a tough melee combatant able to take and deal damage.
Your options are many and varied. Here are a few:
1. Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, or any full-BaB combat class. Carry a big two handed stick and whack things. Such a PC will wind up doing about half the total party damage, since no other PCs are very good at this.
2. A melee bard. Personally weaker than option 1. above, but once one figures in Inspire Courage on the rest of the party, probably stronger. I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure there's some way to affect undead with Inspire Courage (they are usually immune). If the Bard is somehow able to affect undead this option certainly becomes stronger than 1. above.
3. Anything flavorful and able to whack things effectively with a big stick. A melee Inquisitor would be very effective.
Things to avoid:
* Anything that fails to hit hard. Your party needs the ability to FINISH ENCOUNTERS with massive HP damage. Look to STR builds with a two handed weapon, not DEX builds with a one handed weapon.
* Anything that is fragile. Your party already has a bunch of fragile PCs. They need a BDF (Big Dumb Fighter) who can take the hurt, deal the hurt, and not go down.
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A melee bard. Personally weaker than option 1. above, but once one figures in Inspire Courage on the rest of the party, probably stronger. I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure there's some way to affect undead with Inspire Courage (they are usually immune). If the Bard is somehow able to affect undead this option certainly becomes stronger than 1. above.
This may sound odd, multiclass your bard with one level of Undead Sorcerer. That way you get the Arcana for the class that lets you treat undead as if they are people.
Bloodline Arcana: Some undead are susceptible to your mind-affecting spells. Corporeal undead that were once humanoids are treated as humanoids for the purposes of determining which spells affect them.
If there's a better way to do it (with a feat or a trait) feel free to shoot this one down.
Hmm
A melee bard. Personally weaker than option 1. above, but once one figures in Inspire Courage on the rest of the party, probably stronger. I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure there's some way to affect undead with Inspire Courage (they are usually immune). If the Bard is somehow able to affect undead this option certainly becomes stronger than 1. above.This may sound odd, multiclass your bard with one level of Undead Sorcerer. That way you get the Arcana for the class that lets you treat undead as if they are people.
Go Crossblooded Serpentine/Undead or Fey/Undead for a double-duty dip.
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Go Crossblooded Serpentine/Undead or Fey/Undead for a double-duty dip.
Actually, I think that would work. Normally, I would scream, "No crossblooding!' because of how much that limits your sorcerer spell list. At level one, you only get ONE first level spell.
But... If you are going bard, your sorcerer spell list is less important to you. Use your one level to pick up a first level spell that sorcerer's get that bards don't. Make sure that the spell is one that scales up and remains useful later. Same deal with your cantrips. Go for cool ones off the bard list.
So... Cross-blooded Fey/Undead or Serpentine/Undead?
Fey gives you the arcana that allows you to add +2 to the DCs of all your compulsion spells -- nice! It also give you laughing touch, which can be used while grappled.
Serpentine allows you to use mental control and language dependent spells on all sorts of critters that aren't human -- animals, monstrous humanoids, magical beasts -- as if they were humanoids who understood you. It also gives you fangs, which aren't that useful to you because this is only a dip, and you won't be able to raise your poison as you level. But they might be fun, nonetheless, and give you a certain RP panache amongst the rest of your dark little group.
Hmm
I'll look into it. I'm somewhat split between this, a barbarian, and a mystic theurge as our party also lacks a utility caster.
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Most of the posts above are focused on how to make the party the most powerful. I think quite a few have merit in achieving that goal, but I have to disagree that that is indeed the proper goal.
Basically, with the possible exception of the cleric, you have a pretty un-optimized party here. While an very powerful character would increase the strength of the party, it would weaken the game. It is better for everyone to be about equal than for the party to be strong.
If you are an unselfish player, a bard who focused on making sure everyone else is cooler, rather than doing grand things themselves could add a lot to the party, particularly if you were combat focused enough to work as a flanking partner.
If you want to be more active, I would look at a monk or a brawler. Several monk archetypes make them fairly viable melee combatants now. I especially like the snake style tree and moving past multiple foes to provoke them into attacking me and then counter-attacking. This works very well for setting up a flank.
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Barbarian fits quite well, I think - the only class more durable is Paladin, but I don't see most Paladins getting along too well with this party. I'm tempted to suggest melee Druid, but honestly you need someone with more HP/AC more than you need another caster. I would put Fighter, Cavalier, Samurai, Bloodrager, Warpriest, or Battle Oracle as solid choices, as well. (You have enough skill points already between the ninja & rogue that Warpriest is better than Inquisitor here, IMO.)
Another thing to consider is that both your other main damage sources (excluding the sorcerer) need sneak attack to be effective. Something with an animal companion (to flank with the ninja) or some kind of Dazzling Display build that lets your rogue get sneak attack (I know there's some trick to it - check Rogue Eidolon's guide to archery rogues) could be quite helpful.
Whatever you pick, though, make sure it's someone that can take the heavy hits! Grabbing Diehard (the Unbreakable fighter gets it for free, I believe) might be a wise choice, regardless of class.
I think with your party make up you can get away with playing what ever you want. And you should be playing what you'll have most fun with. But myself i would go with a druid. You get good spells and you can manage the battlefield some. Plus you get an animal companion who i know for a fact can tank. Are they the best, no but they are pretty good. If you wanna go melee then that's an added bonus or you could go all casty. Just remember to buff up your animal companion really strong, with strong jaw and animal growth when you get those spells and he will rip thru anything.
Oracle of Battle could be good.
With a melee focused Ninja, you can get the Maneuver Mastery (Trip) revelation. At 8th level it'd be okay, but it'll really shine at 11th level, giving the rogues extra attacks. In essence, for the price of one feat (Extra Revelation) at 11th level and higher, you get 2 feats (Improved X and Greater X). You don't have to focus on this route, but it's very cheap and relatively easy to become good at a maneuver, which makes them awesome at it.
You can divide some of the spell duty with the Cleric, taking over some of the more repetitive castings freeing up a couple of their slots for utility spells.
You also get some interesting battle-field control spells.
Barbarian, Battle Druid, or Reach Cleric would be my choices for trying to round out this party. I would expect you need something to keep opponents away from the squishy characters.
I'm not familiar with War Priest, but if it is basically a better front line cleric that would also be a good choice.
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On second thought, I rather liked the OPs suggestion of Mystic Theurge. I suggest the traditional mystic theurge, C3/W3/MT2. A mystic theurge gets all the spellcasting toys, yet remains approximately balanced with the rogue & ninja. This would allow the Sorcerer the freedom to blast, without having to be responsible for battlefield control and utility casting: "I don't want to cast Haste and Glitterdust, I want to blow *&^%&^ up!".
Also, from C3/W3/MT2 it only gets better.
i think bard would be a good choice....
they're sort of backup arcane and divine casters (and even more so with UMD), plus they can buff the rogue/ninja (and themselves) to keep their combat abilities relevant.
if you want to build a utility MT i'd suggest using the early entry tricks/exploits to make an empyreal sorc 2/cleric 1/MT 5. all your DCs/bonus spells are based on Wis... you'll have to choose sorc spells known carefully, but cleric flexibility will help as a utility caster.
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half orc scarred witch doctor or if you can get away with it, dwarven scarred witch doctor.
Hmm, now I've added witch doctor to my list of characters... Still undecided though.
You're lacking Battlefield Control and a tank. Druid with a tough AC will give you both.
