Knight (Cavalier Archetype)


Homebrew and House Rules


While most cavaliers are well trained mounted warriors, some focus more on hand to hand combat with the weapon and armor training of an elite soldier.

Fighter Training (Ex): Knight levels are considered fighter levels for the purpose of meeting combat feat prerequisites. If the knight has any levels in fighter, these level stack.

This ability replaces Mount.

Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a knight learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every six levels thereafter (9th and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –3 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +3 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a knight can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 9th level, a knight can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor. This ability stacks with the fighter class ability of the same name. If the knight has both class features, he takes the most advantageous benefit of the two class features.

This ability replaces Cavalier's Charge.

Weapon Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a knight can select one fighter weapon group. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Every six levels thereafter (11th and 17th), a knight becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a knight reaches 11th level, he receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.

A knight also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the knight's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group. This ability stacks with the fighter class ability of the same name. If the knight has both class features, he takes the most advantageous benefit of the two class features.

This ability replaces Expert Trainer.

Armor Mastery (Ex): At 19th level, a knight gains Damage Reduction 5/— whenever he is wearing armor or using a shield.

This ability replaces Mighty Charge.

Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a knight chooses one weapon, such as the longsword, greataxe, or longbow. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

This ability replaces Supreme Charge.


I'm unfamiliar with the potency of the class features hat are being given up, but this looks very cut and dry. Straightforward and simple. I would personally modify the capstones slightly to compliment the cavalier, rather than using the unmodified fighter features.


Typically not for archetypes. I could see that for an alternate class maybe.

Dark Archive

So is this good to go, or do others have suggestions for Master Marshmallow?


So from what I see here, the goal is basically to make a Fighter that gets Tactician, Banner, and Order?

Dark Archive

The Golux wrote:
So from what I see here, the goal is basically to make a Fighter that gets Tactician, Banner, and Order?

I see it as an archetype that give players an alternative to having a mount for campaigns where it wouldn't be as much of an advantage to have.

Sczarni

I do appreciate that sometimes, a mount isn't really what's wanted. (Large horses can't fit through doorways, can't charge while squeezing, ain't nobody got time to read how the Ride skill works, etc.) Straight up replacing it all with Armor and Weapon training, though, isn't the best solution. At this point, you may as well take a Fighter and role play it as a Knight. You still get your Order, true, but a Fighter would get numerous bonus feats as well as better Weapon Training Progression.

I like that you want to make a mountless Cavalier archetype, but by replacing it with another class's signature abilities, you invite comparisons to that other class, and I'm worried that this one doesn't compare well.

Scarab Sages

It wouldn't hurt to have a few original abilities in addition to the Fighter grafts, but I kind of like this. It winds up becoming a Knight of the Might & Magic tradition. I think you're on to something.


It was really meant to just replace the mount with something not useless.

Since the classes are so close anyway, I figured borrowing fighter abilities would be the easiest (and most balanced) way to replace the mount.


It's fine. But Armor Training is kinda terrible. If after taking this you could take fighter archetype to trade that away that'd be sweet (and silly. But sweet).

As for balance otherwise, I'm comparing it with Daring Champion and this is probably weaker. Daring Champion is better for DEX builds, but a usual STR build that has some middling dex can make use of all of its abilities aside from the weapon finesse.

Scarab Sages

A Cavalier's Mount is anything but useless. You can't take it everywhere, true, but it's called "trading versatility for power" - when you can use it, it's pretty damned powerful.


I'm sorely tempted to say the class should get the Flagbearer feat at level 1 as well as counting as a Fighter for feats. It's not a huge benefit, but hey - you can have a flag. You're a knight. It sort of meshes.

Otherwise... I agree, this sort of needs a personal touch, something that makes it get that knightly theme. Nothing much, but it does. I suppose you still have your Cavalier challenges and stuff, but that only takes you so far.

My gut tells me replacing Armor Training is the way to go. I actually like Armor Training, but as a Knight you'll probably want a little bit of CHA so you can get along in court and such, etc, and DEX probably shouldn't be a priority. What if you had something related to questing? Say you collect trophies of past victories, or mementos of sentimental value that remind you of the Great Battle in the Thornwood Thicket or something. These could provide bonuses in some way - perhaps inspiration to be drawn from cherrypicked Occultist whatever-they-have-that-I-forget? From Occult adventures. Or it could be small bonuses not unlike the Halfling racial bonuses from having certain trinkets... the point being, that wouldn't be a bad stage to replace Armor Training I.

Hmm. You know, since this is a KNIGHT we're talking about, perhaps you ought to be looking at actual chivalric ideals? Imagine chivalric ideals that you select in a manner similar to Weapon Training or Favored Enemy; when you select a new one, all the old ones improve by one step. So, let's say your chivalric ideals are:

(Ideals taken from some Duke of Burgundy)

Ideals and possible bonuses:

Faith - Increases the bonuses divine spells grant you when you're buffed by them?
Charity - You get a bonus to Aid Another checks or perhaps you just have a better reputation thanks to being so charitable?
Justice - You have so many "justice is <Blank>" things to abuse here. Blindfight as a bonus feat (Justice is blind), +movement speed when charging (Justice is swift), etc.
Sagacity - All Knowledges as class skills, gain bonuses to them?
Prudence - Bonuses when fighting defensively; bonuses when taking the Withdraw action; bonuses when casting defensively (if you have levels of a casting class); bonuses with Combat Expertise?
Temperance - Drawing a blank.
Resolution - Will save bonuses for yourself?
Truth - Skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Sense Motive?
Liberality - Okay, no clue here. Nix it, maybe.
Diligence - Abilities that help you resist fatigue, run further, etc.?
Hope - Aura of Courage type effect?
Valour - Bonus damage when charging on foot? Bonus damage when fighting against encounters with a CR higher than your level?

Just brainstorming on the spot. Hopefully something sparks some inspiration.


This is very close to a figther that trades bravery and 8 bonus feats for better skills, banner, tactics, order and Challenges. Weapon training and armor training takes a sligth hit as well.
That is fine by me.
Pehaps write it up and see it there are any dead levels and give them a extra AoO or a bonus feat there.
This looks like a class i would Pick over a normal figther 8 out of 10 times, but that is not a problem.


^5 bonus feats actually.


I am a huge fan of cavalier's mount, and I find your replacement underwhelming. Fighter training should replace a relatively weak ability like expert trainer or, maybe, cavalier's charge. Mount is a primary class feature for the cavalier, alongside the Challenge ability.

If you remove the mount, you need something big to replace it. Maybe a samurai-like pool with a little more love. Armor and weapon training are the fighter things, and I don't see any reason to add more fighter to an already fighter-like class like the cavalier. If you want to play a mount-less martial in heavy armor, the fighter should be the default choice.

If you really like the Challenge mechanics, just do a fighter archetype whit it.


Kelazan wrote:

I am a huge fan of cavalier's mount, and I find your replacement underwhelming. Fighter training should replace a relatively weak ability like expert trainer or, maybe, cavalier's charge. Mount is a primary class feature for the cavalier, alongside the Challenge ability.

If you remove the mount, you need something big to replace it. Maybe a samurai-like pool with a little more love. Armor and weapon training are the fighter things, and I don't see any reason to add more fighter to an already fighter-like class like the cavalier. If you want to play a mount-less martial in heavy armor, the fighter should be the default choice.

If you really like the Challenge mechanics, just do a fighter archetype whit it.

Other of the replacements are overvelming. So it balances ok out in the end.


Yeah, it's replacing mount because it's at level 1. Like how daring champion replaces mount with... Champion's finesse.


I guess of I threw in bonus feats to really take advantage of the fighter training it would probably end up better overall.

Issue being there is a general design cue that says the archetype should be of equal power level to the base class.

I personally don't see the mount as being that great of a class feature given its restrictions. If it progressed like a full animal companion and could do things like


Mount is an incredible class feature, and it does scale. Yes, the selection is limited, but having a whole second character is probably one of the best class features short of casting spells.

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