Can I two-weapon fight with one weapon and use a free action to swap hands? I'd still have a primary and an off-hand. And take penalties as normal for my weapon. I'm curious if there's anything stopping this that I'm not seeing.
I'd imagine TWF will be somewhere along the line of hitting simultaneously with both weapons at the same time.
I have no answer for you regarding the rules though.
The Two Weapon fighting rules state "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand". It has to be a second weapon, not the same weapon as you used in your primary hand (although you CAN two weapon fight with unarmed strikes). The FAQ/Errata about a monk using a single weapon for flurry of blows does not apply.
No, TWF is definitely hitting with one hand and then the other. I think it's you can't use your off hand till you've used the comparable main hand. But you could do all your main hands on one target and all your off hands on a different target.
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While you can make any number of free action in a round, you usually cannot take them in the middle of an action (during a move for example). Since two weapon fighting is a full round action, you can only switch weapon before and after you start.
You can make free actions during a full attack. You can totally take a 5 foot step between swings.
Okay guess it doesn't work. Thanks for your input.
Chess Pwn, are you trying to get around paying for two enhanced weapons? There really isn't a way around.
You could wield a double weapon, but enhancing each end costs as if it were two weapons and are enhanced separately.
In the pathfinder beta there was a feat called Weapon Swap that did exactly what you are talking about. Personally I didn't think it was unbalancing, but the designers decided it wasn't a good fit for the game and it was scrapped.
In the current rules set what you are talking about is impossible, but clearly there is a precedent for considering it.
If this is for a home game and not PFS you might be able to dig up a PDF of the beta rules and take it to your GM for consideration.
Yeah, what you're asking to do is basically Flurry. Do it with a Temple Sword, or a Nine-Section Whip if you're one of the Kool Kids (there is no weapon radder than a chain whip).
Can I two-weapon fight with one weapon and use a free action to swap hands? I'd still have a primary and an off-hand. And take penalties as normal for my weapon. I'm curious if there's anything stopping this that I'm not seeing.
No you cannot do this. Aside from simple common sense and the fact that such weapon juggling is stupid to do in combat there are also the game rules that point out:
Two Weapon Fighting Feat - Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for [b]fighting with two weapons[b] are reduced.
Two-Weapon Fighting Rules
See FAQ at right for more information.
If you [b]wield a second weapon in your off hand[b], you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
ONE weapon is neither TWO weapons or a second weapon in your off hand. A second actual weapon must be in use with a first actual weapon to even attempt the activity.
And the fact this has to be pointed out at all is painful frankly.
THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR RESPONDING MY QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED.
THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR RESPONDING MY QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED.
lol, relax, bud. The threads on here often derail, and drag on far longer than they should.
On that note...
CTHULHU VERSUS EXPLOSIVE RUNES, OMFGWTFBBQ?
SACRED GEOMETRY IS STEALIN' MAH PICKINIC BASKETS
....or you could play a Dragoon archetype fighter.
Unless I am misunderstanding something, this archetype is good in a way that makes my head hurt (in the 'lolwut?' kind of way). Basically, it has an ability that lets you spin your spear around, letting you basically use it as a double weapon (the other end is bludgeoning). But unlike a double weapon, both ends use your weapons regular enhancement bonus (and any special qualities that apply- so no keen on the blunt end).
This is extremely good, since you can do TWF without having to deal with TWF prices. And like a double weapons, this is also use it as a regular 2 handed weapon, which means you can still do decent damage when you have to move. And it is still a reach weapon (god, the things you can do with all this when combined with lunge... full attacking anything in a 45' circle when you use your 5' step- this solves another problem of TWF builds: getting full attacks).
Did I mention that it gets double the bonuses to damage compared to normal weapon training (which makes a TWF even crazier)? And that its replacement for weapon training still counts as weapon training for the gloves of dueling according to its use as a specific example in this FAQ?. Heck, it doesn't even completely trade out armor training (so you can run around in medium or mithraled heavy armor however you please). The only bad thing I have to say against it as a fighter archetype is that it trades away your first bonus feat (and that is mostly a nit pick).
I mean, sure it is still a fighter, but this is the kind of thing that a fighter should try to be. And since this archetype is focused on reach weapons (or at least a weapon group with a few reach weapons), it can serve as more than just DPR- it can control the battle field (admittedly through fear of its DPR). Once you have lunge, who would want to get near a 45' circle of high DPR TWF full attacks? Enemies have to side step you if they don't want to die. And that is valuable tactically. Plus, with lunge, you can position enemies 15' away after your full attack, which means they can't use 5' steps to get to you (So they can't normally make full attacks and they draw an AoO).
No you can not do this because the book says you need a SECOND weapon in your off hand. Feel free to think the book means something different than what it says but if you think we the devs intended for one weapon to be an option you are mistaken.
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Wraithstrike - your fist is a second weapon, so technically you still fill that requirement; there's nothing saying you have to use that same second weapon in order to make the off hand attacks.
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon
There actually is something saying it has to be the same weapon in order to make the off hand attacks.
....or you could play a Dragoon archetype fighter.
Unless I am misunderstanding something, this archetype is good in a way that makes my head hurt (in the 'lolwut?' kind of way). Basically, it has an ability that lets you spin your spear around, letting you basically use it as a double weapon (the other end is bludgeoning). But unlike a double weapon, both ends use your weapons regular enhancement bonus (and any special qualities that apply- so no keen on the blunt end).
This is a good archetype, but I'm not sure about using it to focus on TWF. Spinning Lance lets you treat the blunt end as a club, which seems like you would miss out on your spear training bonus (as well as weapon focus/specialization with your spear). And since the blunt end can only hit adjacent targets, you'll either need to make careful use of 5ft steps, or hit them at 10ft exactly when using lunge (assuming "adjacent" here refers to your natural reach).
EDIT: And rereading the ability, it doesn't actually turn your spear into a double weapon. So you can't actually use two-weapon fighting with it, as far as I can tell.
Ah, knew I missed the 'adjacent' part. Darn, and I liked the look of that too. Sorry for the waste of time folks.
Chess Pwn, are you trying to get around paying for two enhanced weapons? There really isn't a way around.
You could wield a double weapon, but enhancing each end costs as if it were two weapons and are enhanced separately.
Then why should archers get the Rapid Shot feat? And why should Monks get to Flurry with one weapon?
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The Two Weapon fighting rules state "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand". It has to be a second weapon, not the same weapon as you used in your primary hand (although you CAN two weapon fight with unarmed strikes). The FAQ/Errata about a monk using a single weapon for flurry of blows does not apply.
Use a quarterstaff.
They are free.
Then why should archers get the Rapid Shot feat? And why should Monks get to Flurry with one weapon?Chess Pwn, are you trying to get around paying for two enhanced weapons? There really isn't a way around.
You could wield a double weapon, but enhancing each end costs as if it were two weapons and are enhanced separately.
Because the rules say they do. Also, rapid shot isn't really the same. Rapid shot is making more shots with the same weapon. Flurry is akin to two weapon fighting though, so your point is valid in theory, but the rules explicitly allow you to flurry with only a single weapon.
If its any consolation, the traditional method of fighting with fists cost the same as enhancing to weapons since it requires an amulet of might firsts (which is priced as enhancing two weapons to the same enhancement level).
Can I two-weapon fight with one weapon and use a free action to swap hands? I'd still have a primary and an off-hand. And take penalties as normal for my weapon. I'm curious if there's anything stopping this that I'm not seeing.
Looking at this in a different way:
What is your end goal in doing this? What is the actual effect you're trying to achieve?The answer might be different based on what you're trying to do, and there might be workarounds available.
Then why should archers get the Rapid Shot feat? And why should Monks get to Flurry with one weapon?Chess Pwn, are you trying to get around paying for two enhanced weapons? There really isn't a way around.
You could wield a double weapon, but enhancing each end costs as if it were two weapons and are enhanced separately.
Because the rules say they do. Also, rapid shot isn't really the same. Rapid shot is making more shots with the same weapon. Flurry is akin to two weapon fighting though, so your point is valid in theory, but the rules explicitly allow you to flurry with only a single weapon.
If its any consolation, the traditional method of fighting with fists cost the same as enhancing to weapons since it requires an amulet of might firsts (which is priced as enhancing two weapons to the same enhancement level).
My point is, why should archers, who are acknowledged as being better than melee, get a feat that does TWF but they don't need to invest in a second weapon? And if a Monk can fight with one weapon, so should any melee class.
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My point is, why should archers, who are acknowledged as being better than melee, get a feat that does TWF but they don't need to invest in a second weapon? And if a Monk can fight with one weapon, so should any melee class.
If you want to give up your full BAB to pick up FOB, go for it.
Can I two-weapon fight with one weapon and use a free action to swap hands? I'd still have a primary and an off-hand. And take penalties as normal for my weapon. I'm curious if there's anything stopping this that I'm not seeing.Looking at this in a different way:
What is your end goal in doing this? What is the actual effect you're trying to achieve?The answer might be different based on what you're trying to do, and there might be workarounds available.
if you had read this thread you'd have seen that I've said I've had my answer, twice. But I'll still answer your question. I was trying to achieve wielding a weapon in one and and then using a free action to swap to the other hand to do two weapon fighting. I'm quite convinced it isn't allowed.
My point is, why should archers, who are acknowledged as being better than melee, get a feat that does TWF but they don't need to invest in a second weapon? And if a Monk can fight with one weapon, so should any melee class.Then why should archers get the Rapid Shot feat? And why should Monks get to Flurry with one weapon?Chess Pwn, are you trying to get around paying for two enhanced weapons? There really isn't a way around.
You could wield a double weapon, but enhancing each end costs as if it were two weapons and are enhanced separately.
Because the rules say they do. Also, rapid shot isn't really the same. Rapid shot is making more shots with the same weapon. Flurry is akin to two weapon fighting though, so your point is valid in theory, but the rules explicitly allow you to flurry with only a single weapon.
If its any consolation, the traditional method of fighting with fists cost the same as enhancing to weapons since it requires an amulet of might firsts (which is priced as enhancing two weapons to the same enhancement level).
Your point brings up question, perhaps you will have the great fortune of talking with the developers to get an answer for your points. but Archers get it cause they do, and monks can cause they're cool like that. One of the neat tricks they can do to make them different from other martials.
My point is, why should archers, who are acknowledged as being better than melee, get a feat that does TWF but they don't need to invest in a second weapon? And if a Monk can fight with one weapon, so should any melee class.Then why should archers get the Rapid Shot feat? And why should Monks get to Flurry with one weapon?Chess Pwn, are you trying to get around paying for two enhanced weapons? There really isn't a way around.
You could wield a double weapon, but enhancing each end costs as if it were two weapons and are enhanced separately.
Because the rules say they do. Also, rapid shot isn't really the same. Rapid shot is making more shots with the same weapon. Flurry is akin to two weapon fighting though, so your point is valid in theory, but the rules explicitly allow you to flurry with only a single weapon.
If its any consolation, the traditional method of fighting with fists cost the same as enhancing to weapons since it requires an amulet of might firsts (which is priced as enhancing two weapons to the same enhancement level).
Archers get one extra attack, and one extra arrow. Technically manyshot shoots two arrows at once, it doesn't give an extra shot. In any event, archery is better than melee because you get to full attack every round. You don't have to waste rounds moving and getting only one attack. Honestly, without rapid shot and manyshot archery would fall far behind melee in damage capability, as getting static damage modifiers on archer is much more difficult than it is with melee weapons. Couple this with the fact that melee classes tend to do more damage than an archer on a full attack (even without having an equal number of attacks) and it really boils down to the fact that archers full attack every round and melee doesn't.
The rules are as the are. Archers get rapid shot and manyshot and without them wouldn't have competitive damage, and it doesn't require them to have a second weapon because the rules say so.
You can dislike how the rules work, you are free to think it's unfair. But they are the rules.
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My point is, why should archers, who are acknowledged as being better than melee, get a feat that does TWF but they don't need to invest in a second weapon? And if a Monk can fight with one weapon, so should any melee class.
Because they don't get improved two weapon rapid shot, or greater two weapon rapid shot. Because when these feats came out, clustered shots wasn't a thing. Because not provoking when firing a bow wasn't a thing either, when those feats came out.
But most importantly, because it follows the vision that the game designers have to make each class and combat style feel unique.
Monks can flurry with one weapon. While flurry shares some characteristics with two weapon fighting, the two aren't exactly the same. Just because one class gets a special ability doesn't mean they all should. For example... If a rogue can deal extra damage by hitting a vulnerable spot, then so should any melee class. All melee builds should get sneak attack. And if a barbarian can deal extra damage just because he gets angry, then all classes should be able to do that. Rage for everyone!
If you don't like it, run a homebrew where you change it and share the results on the forum. Maybe in time, you can change the dev's minds and we can all rage and sneak attack as we two weapon fight with our two handed falchions, using a charge action to make a full round attack and critting on all of the attacks if one of them crits.
It'll be fun!