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Episode 3, WTF...
This was one of my least favorite DW episodes since the series restarted with #9. The bit at the end was good, but for the most part it exceeded the maximum silly factor by several degrees.
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I didn't have a problem with number 2 of your complaints. It fits in with the idea that the Doctor really isn't unbiased when it comes to Daleks. His hatred of them has been pointed out in multiple episodes as a major character flaw (admittably....if you are going to hate any race, Daleks seem to be a rational choice.
Also it was just nice that we have actually seen Clara be competent. Like seriously, the woman companions the last two seasons have been rather useless. I feel that Moffat has actually listened to those complaints, as episodes 2 and 3 gave Clara quite a bit to do.
Yes, but there is a good way to make a companion put the doctor in his place, and a bad way to do so.
A good way to do it will be similar to Donna's episode with the Doctor where he kills the spider things, and she stops him before he takes it too far. You could understand why the Doctor was going too far, and why he needed a reminder from a puny human to keep his emotions in check. Donna was asking him to remember to be merciful.
But in this episode, Clara was not reigning in his emotions, she was teaching him schoolyard levels of logic. Her empowerment came at the expense of the Doctor seeming like an idiot. Clara was teaching him to think, not reminding him to keep control of himself. They could have done the scene in a way that portrays the Doctor as too angry to acknowledge what he already knows, with Clara forcing him to deal with it - "The Dalek was good before and you know it! I am not letting you give up now because of your hatred! people died to give you this chance!". Instead they played up the teacher angle - "Is that what we've learned today?". Probably targeting children with this.
But, as I said, this is an issue I have that is very subjective. I guessed some (perhaps most) people wouldn't mind.
I have to say, the latest episode was a lot of fun in my book.
Sure the gold arrow was silly but I thought the back and forth between Robin and the Doctor was great. I liked their little duel where he used the spoon. And I thought the conversation he had with Robin at the end about being a hero and/or inspiring others was well done.
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Amy was not useless, she has legs you can look at to forget...hmmmm...Amy's legs.
This right here sums up a huge problem with Moffat's run.
RTD Companions:
Rose: Provides a human connection and through sheer determination alone - without advanced strength, wits, or technology - rescues the Doctor and all of the human race from a Dalek invasion.
Martha: A brilliant medical student, eventually doctor, who while not possessed of Time Lord intelligence, is easily the most clever of the companions. On many occasions it is her cleverness - The Family of Blood episodes, Last of the Time Lords - that ultimately saves the day.
Donna: Provides a moral center that keeps the Doctor form straying too far. She convinces him that even fixed points in time provide opportunities to do something right, and the lack of her influence is felt severely in the "Waters of Mars" episode.
Moffat companions:
Amy: Has nice legs. The actress, Karen Gillam, was essentially hired on that feature alone. Moffat was going to pass because thought she was "wee and dumpy". It wasn't her acting ability, or her personality that changed his mind - he just had to see she was actually tall and fit.
Claire: Fairs marginally better, but is constantly subjected to unflattering physical comparisons to Amy and quips about her looks. Also the whole "born to save the Doctor" nonsense. He found a way to keep stuffing the same character in the fridge over and over and over and over . . .
Really, I know there's a lot of complaints about it, but I feel like the sexism wouldn't even be that bad (still bad, but sadly not any worse than most of the industry) if not for the nonsensical storytelling, the recycling of recent plots, and the lack of interest in coherency or motivation. Matt Smith's characterization and now Peter Capaldi's is infuriatingly nonchalant about sacrificing others to save himself. I get that he can be dark, he can resort to killing if he has to, but the peaceful resolution isn't even a blip on his radar any more. The end of this most recent episode - which has earned an inordinate amount of praise, imho - goes right back to that.
For me, there's one saving throw that could be made, and a few people have suggested it. This is all speculation (I don't think Moffat is actually clever or moral enough to make it happen, but I've read a couple of fairly convincing arguments), but right now about the only way to redeem this incarnation is if he actually does turn out to be The Valeyard.
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The last episode should have been good because it was written by Mark Gatiss.
Fixed that for you.
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Claire: Fairs marginally better, but is constantly subjected to unflattering physical comparisons to Amy and quips about her looks. Also the whole "born to save the Doctor" nonsense. He found a way to keep stuffing the same character in the fridge over and over and over and over . . .
I like how one single joke gets you to make this critisism, but a full season of Ten jumping on every opportunity to tell Martha how much better Rose was than her is overlooked.
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I like how one single joke gets you to make this criticism, but a full season of Ten jumping on every opportunity to tell Martha how much better Rose was than her is overlooked.Claire: Fairs marginally better, but is constantly subjected to unflattering physical comparisons to Amy and quips about her looks. Also the whole "born to save the Doctor" nonsense. He found a way to keep stuffing the same character in the fridge over and over and over and over . . .
1) It wasn't a single joke, for some reason I cannot fathom everyone is making fun of Clara for not looking good - including the Doctor. I guess some people find it funny (because she really is very pretty, or something) but to me it's just annoying.
2) But see, that's exactly what EntrerisShadow was talking about. When 10 liked Martha less than Rose, it wasn't because she was less pretty. It's because he genuinely fell in love with Rose and not with Martha. It was emotional and character-centered criticism. It also wasn't some kind of running gag or something - Martha's entire relationship with the Doctor was defined by her hopeless love of him and his inability to get over Rose - it eventually lead to Martha deciding to leave the Doctor because she couldn't take it anymore.
But now, it's all about Clara's looks because apparently that's the only difference worth mentioning between her and Amy. It's also not any integral part of the story, just comic relief. It is VERY easy to see who among the two showrunners was taking his female characters more seriously.
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Over the past three weeks I have watched all of the New Doctor who (mostly) for the first time (apart from a random episode or 2 I'd seen on TV with some friends).
I'm all caught up now.
Episodes with Donna in them are the best. All the Doctors annoy me at first and die just as I like them, except Tennant's Doctor who died just after he started to annoy me.
I'm hoping the new Doctor softens up some more.
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I also think it's funny how you give the RTD companions credit in your descriptions for saving the day numerous times, but you ignore that Amy and Clara also saved the day numerous times (and ignore Rory altogether). The three (to date) Moffat companions save the day as much as the RTD companions, but you boil them down to "nice legs", "pretty face", and " ... "
Moffat's female companions are smart, attractive, witty, and independent. Somehow that makes him a vile sexist.
Meanwhile, RTD isn't, despite reducing one female character to nothing more than a blowjob joke, and reducing the female companions to all but breaking out into a catfight over the Doctor on several occasions.
If a Dalek hadn't killed Linda with an I, then Rose would have surely found another way to get her offed.
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I also think it's funny how you give the RTD companions credit in your descriptions for saving the day numerous times, but you ignore that Amy and Clara also saved the day numerous times (and ignore Rory altogether). The three (to date) Moffat companions save the day as much as the RTD companions, but you boil them down to "nice legs", "pretty face", and " ... "
I think episode three demonstrates pretty well my earlier point that Clara's empowerment seems to be at the expense of the Doctor. Because, honestly, he was a slobbering moron during most of the story. And you can disagree with me, but I think that it's less sexist to have female characters with a life of their own that exist beyond your main male character, rather than have them be good with verbal quips.
Also, can you describe to me Amy's character and Clara's character, and point out the major differences? As a comparison, here is the rundown for the RTD companions:
2) Martha - smart and ambitious. She was the glue who held her family from totally breaking apart, and when the Doctor needed it she kept him from breaking apart. She loved the Doctor, and travelling with him was more about that than about seeing the universe. When she realized she couldn't have him, she opted to live her life on her own rather than waste it chasing a dream.
3) Donna - crude, loud, and confrontational, but far more caring and smart than she may first seem. Similarly to Rose, the Doctor was for her a chance to be something more, to make her life bigger than she otherwise could. However, she is not infatuated with the Doctor, she sees him as a very good friend. Honestly, words don't do her justice. She is brimming with an energy and attitude that no other Companion has shown in the show.
2) River Song - snappish, witty and sexually confident. Adventures with the Doctor because she loves him and because of her scientific interest.
3) Clara Oswald - snappish, witty and slightly less sexually confident. Loves children. Travels with the Doctor because her whole existence across all of time and space is about helping him, and presumably somewhat because she was attracted to 11.
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Rose: ... without advanced strength, wits, or technologyThat is a pretty good description of Rose. Especially the part about without wits.
:P
Lord Snow kind if picked up the baton in discussing my original point, so I won't bother rehashing what will ultimately be the same arguments. But I would like to add that in addition to the fact that Ten's obsession with Rose was not just about her looks, series 3 also laid judgment on it. His obsession was wrong, and while he didn't come to love Martha, his learning to appreciate her for who she was was a huge part of his character development. 11/12's insulting of Claire is always played for laughs.
But what's interesting to me is how strongly everybody seems to react to Rose. I think I'm the only person who is a fan of the series that says, "Yeah, Rose, she wasn't bad." (Donna/Martha after she was the 'official' companion > Martha > Jack > Rose > Craig -if you count him- > Rory > Claire > Amy > all of the other one episode companions > no companion > series cancellation > River Song) It's like you have to either think she's the One True Companion and all others are merely imitators, or that she is the worst thing to happen to television since The Star Wars Christmas Special.
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Rose: ... without advanced strength, wits, or technologyThat is a pretty good description of Rose. Especially the part about without wits.
:P
Lord Snow kind if picked up the baton in discussing my original point, so I won't bother rehashing what will ultimately be the same arguments. But I would like to add that in addition to the fact that Ten's obsession with Rose was not just about her looks, series 3 also laid judgment on it. His obsession was wrong, and while he didn't come to love Martha, his learning to appreciate her for who she was was a huge part of his character development. 11/12's insulting of Claire is always played for laughs.
But what's interesting to me is how strongly everybody seems to react to Rose. I think I'm the only person who is a fan of the series that says, "Yeah, Rose, she wasn't bad." (Donna/Martha after she was the 'official' companion > Martha > Jack > Rose > Craig -if you count him- > Rory > Claire > Amy > all of the other one episode companions > no companion > series cancellation > River Song) It's like you have to either think she's the One True Companion and all others are merely imitators, or that she is the worst thing to happen to television since The Star Wars Christmas Special.
My girlfriend got me to watch the show, and she was one of the biggest Rose fans out there. I think Rose is fine, but I like Martha much better. Dona... it's complicated. I can appreciate that she is an awesome and well developed character, but her mannerism was a bit too loud and obnoxious for me to *like* her. The result is that while Martha is my favorite companion so far, I think Dona is objectively the best.
Liked episode 4 but i really wanted more from the ending. I cant tell if they forgot about the middle when they created the ending or are saving the middle for down the line.
As of right now the chemistry between some characters seems so forced that i cant figure out why they keep connecting.
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I like that Moffat actually consistantly remembers that the TARDIS can travel through time, and uses that as MORE than just how to travel between episodes. That's something that's been generally lacking from the show since the very beginning, given that the entire premise of the show is that the Doctor is a time-traveller.
I really like this episode, although strangely it was perhaps an episode I had to think about quite a bit first to come to that opinion.
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I was surprised to discover that the Doctor can shut people down with a finger to the forehead.
Weird.
I don't know much about the Doctor, since I only watched New Who from Eccleston onwards in the past month, but he's touched minds with other characters before and in the first episode of this season he was tricked by Vastra into putting himself to sleep in what I assume was a trick of psychic judo.
So I guess the Doctor has some psychic ability with a touch range?
I don't let it bother me since he's walking Deus Ex, and the show runs entirely on plot holes and breaking the rules of its own fiction (to use Ghostbusters analogy, the Doctor or his companion "crosses the streams" roughly every other episode).
I also think it's funny how you give the RTD companions credit in your descriptions for saving the day numerous times, but you ignore that Amy and Clara also saved the day numerous times (and ignore Rory altogether). The three (to date) Moffat companions save the day as much as the RTD companions, but you boil them down to "nice legs", "pretty face", and " ... "
I think episode three demonstrates pretty well my earlier point that Clara's empowerment seems to be at the expense of the Doctor. Because, honestly, he was a slobbering moron during most of the story. And you can disagree with me, but I think that it's less sexist to have female characters with a life of their own that exist beyond your main male character, rather than have them be good with verbal quips.
Also, can you describe to me Amy's character and Clara's character, and point out the major differences? As a comparison, here is the rundown for the RTD companions:
** spoiler omitted **...
Well, if you wax lyrical about one group and limit yourself to two sentence put-downs about the other then one side is always going to look better. Wasn't Rose a whiny nobody who only travelled with the Doctor just to bring her father back from the dead? Wasn't Martha just a glum medical student who only travelled with the Doctor because she fancied him?
But I agree that Donna has been the best companion of the new era, a full background and personal growth with a tragic ending as that was all taken from her.
And Amy's the worst. Psychologically damaged by a visit from the Doctor at a young age? Must be a scope for plot arc there - pity it was all wrapped up in her first episode.
Cheers
Mark
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Yay for Donna again! I'm sure she had such a short run on the show because Catherine Tate seems to be quite a powerful actress in England (I see episodes of her own show online) but I really wish she could've gone on. Seriously the character of Donna Noble had it all; human frailty, obnoxious behavior to cover it up, and the willingness to fight even with the Doctor when she thought she could do more.
Rose and Martha might've quibbled with the Doctor but when he put his foot down they just sort of resigned to doing what he said. One was in love with him, the other had puppy love for him. But Donna was a companion without being a submissive.
And her story arcs were heartbreaking! Listening to the song of the Ood just to beg for it to stop; having an entire imaginary family only to have it ripped away; missing the man LITERALLY of her dreams as she left the library. And then to end it all by saving everyone and getting to remember NONE of it. That is really tough stuff.
Rose would've crumbled. Martha wouldn't have connected with any of it in the first place. It took Donna, the perpetual temp that everyone underestimated or avoided, to pull off all that. And it took Catherine Tate to make it look that good. Oh, and also she's really pretty.
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I also think it's funny how you give the RTD companions credit in your descriptions for saving the day numerous times, but you ignore that Amy and Clara also saved the day numerous times (and ignore Rory altogether). The three (to date) Moffat companions save the day as much as the RTD companions, but you boil them down to "nice legs", "pretty face", and " ... "
I think episode three demonstrates pretty well my earlier point that Clara's empowerment seems to be at the expense of the Doctor. Because, honestly, he was a slobbering moron during most of the story. And you can disagree with me, but I think that it's less sexist to have female characters with a life of their own that exist beyond your main male character, rather than have them be good with verbal quips.
Also, can you describe to me Amy's character and Clara's character, and point out the major differences? As a comparison, here is the rundown for the RTD companions:
** spoiler omitted **...
Well, if you wax lyrical about one group and limit yourself to two sentence put-downs about the other then one side is always going to look better. Wasn't Rose a whiny nobody who only travelled with the Doctor just to bring her father back from the dead? Wasn't Martha just a glum medical student who only travelled with the Doctor because she fancied him?
But I agree that Donna has been the best companion of the new era, a full background and personal growth with a tragic ending as that was all taken from her.
And Amy's the worst. Psychologically damaged by a visit from the Doctor at a young age? Must be a scope for plot arc there - pity it was all wrapped up in her first episode.
Cheers
Mark
The thing is, I really didn't have much more to write about Moffat's companions. That was my point - can you really say anything more about them that is significant and that I didn't mention? They all have sharp tongs and are sexually confident, but what else? What do they want, what do they fear? where do live, who are their loved ones? I can (sort of) answer some of those questions for some of Moffat's companions, but with the RTD ones it's very easy to answer them.
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What do they want, what do they fear? where do live, who are their loved ones? I can (sort of) answer some of those questions for some of Moffat's companions, but with the RTD ones it's very easy to answer them.
I'll show why it's so easy for the RTD companions, with Rose as an example:
What does she want? The Doctor.
What does she fear? Separation from the Doctor.
Where does she live? With the Doctor.
Who are her loved ones? The Doctor.
Basically, she's the TV version of Overly Obsessed Girlfriend.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Forgive me if someone has already posted this, but I saw it today and thought it was interesting enough to share:
Cracked.com--It's time to retire Doctor Who
(Some bleeped language, but otherwise SFW)
well episode 4 was my fav of this season
back to hiding behind the sofa
I was surprised to discover that the Doctor can shut people down with a finger to the forehead.
The Doctor could occasionally do this in the original series as well, but only very rarely.
Forgive me if someone has already posted this, but I saw it today and thought it was interesting enough to share:
Cracked.com--It's time to retire Doctor Who
(Some bleeped language, but otherwise SFW)
Watching the first few minutes, it sounds like the Soren thought Doctor Who should have been retired after the first episode of NuWho (or for that matter the first episode of Dr Who period)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The Caretaker
So, this was an episode about three flawed people, each of them being a little right and a little wrong, interacting. If the foibles were on a personal level, that wouldn't bother me.
But, let's make clear: the planet is in danger, and these people need to get their act together.
If, two minutes in, the Doctor had said, "Hang on a minute, Clara. It looks like there's an alien robot menace dormant, near your school. Let's make sure it doesn't hurt anyone." He doesn't; he hides this from her, and this decision proceeds to endanger her and her entire school.
This is a return to "Amy's state of pregnancy is fluctuating. I'll bet she's a copy of the original; God only knows where she really is. Let's keep it from her." It wasn't attractive before, and it's worse now.
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Doctor Who is a British show, but Moffat has shown before that he's sensitive to American values and wants the show to do well over here. So why (a) make the black guy controlling and possessive, and also (b) insinuate that the black girl is late for "Shoplifting"?
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If you're going to rig a trap for an alien menace, maybe it might make sense to disguise all your little high-tech widgets. They kind of look like armed explosives. Maybe make them look like smoke detectors of something. If only there were some way to make them invisible.
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You might be thinking that normal people can't jump over alien menaces, excepting maybe cybermats. But I'm a math teacher, and I can tell you that, yes, math teachers can.
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Pink wasn't controlling and possessive, he was rightfully worried about the fact that his girlfriend was lying to him, and what she ended up being lying about was going off into space and getting SHOT AT.
Saying "Be honest with me, or I'm out" is perfectly reasonable. He didn't say "stop going" or "take me with you" or "you can't handle this". All he said was "If you can't handle this, let me know".
The worst thing he did in this episode was point out how much of an a#!~@!% the Doctor was being this time.
As well, if it wasn't clear, the girl was being accused of shoplifting because she was a "disruptive influence". Not because she was black.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Rynjin, the line I'm thinking about is near the end of the episode. After remarking about all the wonder that Clara has seen, he doesn't say "And you weren't scared at all. That's a side of you I really admire," Rather, he says "You should have been scared." Generally speaking, I don't tell the women I date how theoy should be feeling.
A visual image I liked: when Danny cancels the date for the evening, he walks through the scattered chess pieces of the giant chess game. That's not the only game that's just been broken.
Do the women you date generally climb into strange vehicles with people they barely know and then go off to do god knows what with people trying to kill them?
There are a few acceptable circumstances where telling someone what they feel is just fine.
Stuff like this is one of them.
For a more down to earth example, if your partner has a drug problem, it's just fine to tell them to stop, that it's unhealthy. If they say "I don't care, it's my life, blah de blah" that is not your cue to shut up and accept it. If you actually care about someone, sitting back and watching them do something self-destructive is not what you should be doing.
Would you not speak out if you saw someone doing something you thought dangerous and it seemed they didn't?
My take is that his meaning is this:
'If you weren't scared, then you weren't recognising the danger you were in.'
Scared (when appropriate) is good: it makes you cautious, makes you be careful, it keeps you alive. He's an (ex) soldier, and has presumably seen active duty: properly assessing risk, and ensuring your colleagues understand the risk, would have been part of his duty.
From every hint they have dropped abouot Mr. Pink's past it's clear his time as a Soldier is a very negative experience for him. This episode put a few things about it into focus I feel.
He doesn't like arrogant officiers is clear, but more importantly his cautions to Clara suggest that it goes beyond "I once had to deal with a real jerk of a superior".
My feeling is that he was given orders that did not fit with his sense of Morality. That he saw others blindly following a dangerous and abusive man out of trust in a superior officer and that they paid the price for it.
When he tells Clara "You should have been scared" I think it is a voice of experience not simply concearn. He sees in the Doctor the shadow of a man responsible for the darkest parts of his own life and he thinks he knows where that is going to lead Clara, but at the same time he isn't going to stop her because he feels it's not his place to do so, not unless she asks him for help. At the same time he is having trouble resigning himself to being a witness to what is to come.
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Doctor Who is a British show, but Moffat has shown before that he's sensitive to American values and wants the show to do well over here. So why (a) make the black guy controlling and possessive, and also (b) insinuate that the black girl is late for "Shoplifting"?
You just answered your own question.
Really, the Brits seem to have a much better standing in race relations than we do. I would think portraying minorities in a negative light would be far more off-putting across the pond. I mean, seriously - consider the last time a Hollywood movie allowed its white female lead to be romanced by a black guy. (Without it being the entire plot of the movie ala Jungle Fever.)
Political discussion aside, this episode was actually the best of the new season, in my mind, but I'm still agitated over The Doctor's hatred of soldiers. IX and X had far better reason to hate soldiers, and even though his hatred of war and the military was trotted out quite a bit, they always made sure to show him being respectful to enlisted soldiers. (If not always the top brass. The Sontaran Strategem/The Poison Sky are good episodes to see it in action.)
I mean, just why? Where did this even come from? For that matter, shouldn't it have gone in the opposite direction, considering this incarnation regenerated after making his peace with the War Doctor? It's maddening!
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Have you considered the possibility that it's simple jealousy? The one person he approved of of Mr. Bow Tie was no real threat to Clara's attachment to him. The Doctor travels almost always only with FEMALE companions... think about that.Doctor Who is a British show, but Moffat has shown before that he's sensitive to American values and wants the show to do well over here. So why (a) make the black guy controlling and possessive, and also (b) insinuate that the black girl is late for "Shoplifting"?You just answered your own question.
Really, the Brits seem to have a much better standing in race relations than we do. I would think portraying minorities in a negative light would be far more off-putting across the pond. I mean, seriously - consider the last time a Hollywood movie allowed its white female lead to be romanced by a black guy. (Without it being the entire plot of the movie ala Jungle Fever.)
Political discussion aside, this episode was actually the best of the new season, in my mind, but I'm still agitated over The Doctor's hatred of soldiers. IX and X had far better reason to hate soldiers, and even though his hatred of war and the military was trotted out quite a bit, they always made sure to show him being respectful to enlisted soldiers. (If not always the top brass. The Sontaran Strategem/The Poison Sky are good episodes to see it in action.)
I mean, just why? Where did this even come from? For that matter, shouldn't it have gone in the opposite direction, considering this incarnation regenerated after making his peace with the War Doctor? It's maddening!
But then how do you explain his treatment of the female soldier in Ep. 2?
It's quite clear to me they wanted this incarnation to have it out for soldiers. I'm sure so they can make some big point about it later, but it doesn't work when the characterization is non-sensical to begin with.
The Doctor has never been a fan of soldiers but he's always been tolerant. He spent three incarnations helping UNIT. He's always been of the opinion that guns cause more problems than they solve, and soldiers tend to jump for their guns at the first sign of trouble.
but clearly this regenration has dragged up something very specific this time. On top of that the during our visit to the Doctor's childhood we heard his parents(?) talking about sending him to the military instead of the academy. There is a raw nerve that has been exposed here and I think part of this season is going to be dealing with it.
oh....
this would be an excellent time to revisit his Daughter/Soldier/Clone
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Danny was pretty spot-on in his assessment of the Doctor. Hell, the show has outright admitted before that the Doctor turns his companions into weapons. And adventuring with the Doctor has gotten several of the killed (not "killed" like Rose, or Donna, or Amy; but actually physically turned into a dead body).
Im an old school DR Who fan and i had high hopes for this doctor. He looks the part, acts the part (at times) but in my opinion these have been weak scripts/stories.
The constant attacks about what Clara is wearing and who her boyfriend is are not why i watch this show. We seem to be spending 2 much time on the lives of companions (outside of the tardis). I also feel this doctors hasnt been as challenged as past doctors but maybe that changes in future episodes.
Was anyone else nodding with a big grin on their face when Clara just ripped into him today.
I think they both needed that. Be interesting to see how things move forward from here but looks like next week will be Doctor on his own.
With a Mummy
on the Orient Express
in Space